Engaging Young Adults: The Church’s Role in Building Lasting Connections
In this episode of the Engaged Church Network podcast, host Mike Glenn welcomes Bill Choate, Director of Collegiate Ministries at the Tennessee Baptist Mission Board. With decades of experience, Bill shares his invaluable perspective on ministering to young adults, discussing the unique challenges faced by Generation Z and the importance of creating authentic, lasting connections within the church.
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Mike Glenn: Hi, thanks for joining us on today's Engage Church Network podcast. Joining me today is Bill Choate. Uh, Bill is the director of collegiate ministries at the Tennessee Baptist Mission Board, has been involved with c- collegiate ministries for, well, ev- ever since Noah got off the boat or something like that, right?
Something like that, Mike. Uh, Bill and I were in seminary together, and then, uh, when I moved to Nashville, we reconnected when he was doing campus work at Vanderbilt University. Uh, because of what he does and the circles he runs in, Bill has an interesting, uh, point of view on young adults. Uh, the Gen X, Gen Y, and now coming on Gen Z.
Gen Zs, yeah. Uh, getting close to the double As again or something, I guess. I don't know. Uh, but, uh, one of the interesting things, and this is my, my first question I'm gonna [00:01:00] throw at you. We're reading a lot about revivals on campuses. Yeah. Uh, Asbury, of course, is just north of us in Kentucky. Uh, the University of Tennessee in Knoxville- Has had a strong movement.
Uh, other campuses around have seen, I mean, hundreds of people- That's right ... uh, responding to the gospel. On the one hand, we in ch- in, in the church, uh, world, uh, and local church ministry are reading things that, that people are not, young people especially, are not coming back to church- Right ... are disengaging from the church.
But on the other hand, we see this huge response to Jesus. Right, right. So what are you seeing and what are you finding out?
Bill Choate: Wow. It's, uh, these are exciting days.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Bill Choate: And we are reading about that, Asbury, Auburn, University of Tennessee, these, um, events that, uh, some, some are, they just seem just to [00:02:00] erupt out of the ground.
Mm-hmm. Uh, just the Spirit steps in and something hap- Others are a, a little more, uh, there's a little more planning work goes into them. Mm-hmm. And, and students are responding, though. They're not, they're not ignoring them. And they're showing up, and decisions are being made, and it looks like this transformative, uh, experience coming about in these events.
And so that's exciting. Um, we're feeling it, what we do with campus ministry, colle- Baptist collegiate ministry on campus, we're, we're feeling it there as well. Mm-hmm. Uh, I was at East Tennessee State a couple weeks ago, and in that sweet little building that Tennessee Baptist built in 1960 for about 50 students, we had well over 300 students show up.
Wow. They're spilling out the doors. They're exciting, they're excited. They're, uh, they're engaged. Uh, they're bringing their friends, and God's at work. And so sometimes you can explain this stuff. Sometimes you just step back and say thank you.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Bill Choate: Right? So all this is going on. Uh, with the big events at, at the big state universities, uh, we're a part of that, and, and we're, we're working to do the follow-up.
And [00:03:00] so, uh, follow-up's hard. You see, you see these, um, you see this, this event, and it looks, it, it looks, it is real. God's at work there, obviously. And then when you try to follow up as the organization, as the institution- Mm-hmm ... there's a, there's a slow response. So I, I, I wanna, I wanna think the best of that and think those experiences are real, and students are experiencing God's presence and transformation, but how do you, how does the institution, the organization, the church- Right
make the follow-up? Mm-hmm. So that's, that's the challenge today.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. And the, and the, what I fear is what happened in my life so many times, is I would have some kind of transfor- uh, transformative engagement with God But I wouldn't be discipled out of that Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's, that's,
Bill Choate: that's the big risk, right?
And
Mike Glenn: then, then
Bill Choate: it al- you almost get calloused- Sure you do ... to- Oh, let's go do another- Yeah ... experience and, uh, but my [00:04:00] life's not gonna change. Right And I'm not closer to Christ, I'm not more like Christ, I'm not in a community where I'm, where I'm growing and discipled- Mm-hmm ... and mentored, and that's not happening.
And so, you know, we're, what we do is more day in, day out with, with college ministry. And it's, you know, it's amazing what happens when you can have that three or four years with a young adult. Uh, a- a- you know, I'm at this point, Mike, where I have 62-year-old alumni- Wow ... from Baptist Student Union back in the day.
Uh, I had, I had, uh, breakfast with a friend in North Carolina a few weeks ago who's one of those from s- he's 62, he's a pastor of a church, has been, and he's, he says, "Hey, you know, um, you remember when you said such a..." "No, no, I don't remember- ... when I said such and such in 1986. I don't remember that." Um, but he's still, he's still, he's still living with the change that came about when he was 18 to 22 years old.
Right. Mm-hmm. So the, what we, what happens is crucial, and so we're at work trying to build, um, build Christian leaders. So to bring people to Christ and [00:05:00] disciple them and grow them, and set, make them, uh, you know, put them in a place where they're ready to really have an impact for the kingdom and the church.
Right. So you see a movement, you see an event, and, and you know, you and I know, like, like, okay, next steps, right? Right. But that's the challenge right now. And I wonder, you know, I'm trying to think, okay, is that about institution? Um, you know, these Gen, Gen Zs, their parents were Gen X or m- you know, and they didn't have any respect for institutions generally.
Right. And so many of these young adults, they didn't grow up in church, they, they didn't see their parents in church. They, you know, and they've been told institutions, governments, all government's bad, all, all churches are bad. Uh, all the scandals we've had in churches across the board for the last 15, 20 years, they've, they've grown up in that.
Yeah, they take their toll every now and while. Sure does. And we see young adults moving up, who have been in church, moving away from church. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, even those who grew up in church, [00:06:00] um, you know, who are, um, some of the recent surveys I'm reading talk about how like they're, they're fine with Jesus.
Right. But, um, they're, they're not fine with church. Um, uh, something I read last week is, uh, the, the gap between men and women. And you know, you and I have always like, "Come on, guys." Right. And it's, it's kind of flipping. It's switched. It's flipping a little bit. So the young, the Gen Z women are more likely today to leave church than the young men.
That's interesting. Right. 'Cause you and I kind of, and we might not say it out loud, but if the women aren't showing up, how's this gonna happen? That's right. Now, that's just the reality- Yeah ... right? So there's like a 15% Six point difference between, in some studies, between young women leaving church and young men leaving church.
And think about this. Uh, young women today, the 22, 24-year-old women are, they make more money than the men on average [00:07:00] Right They are better educated- Right ... than the men on average. You know, they go by Dr. Sally- Mm-hmm ... or Attorney Sally- Mm-hmm ... or, um, um, you know, Colonel Sally. And, um, I think, I think for evangelicals we're struggling, like, okay, how do we hold to beliefs that we hold to and make space for young women in the church- Right
that they can respect and know they're respected- Right ... within the fellowship? That's a challenge. So we've got, I mean, there's several factors working here. And these Gen Z's, you know, they're an im- interesting bunch. In what ways? Well, I, you know, I'm just suspecting once in a while all that beautiful social media that comes from Mike Glenn is actually done by a, you know, 23-year-old woman.
Right, a bot. I'm just guessing. I don't know. That's right. That's right. I'm just guessing 'cause, 'cause you and I see that as voodoo, man. Yeah, yeah. We don't know what's going on there. Yeah. Like whoa, phone. Okay. You know, so they, but they were born, you know, y- you can remember [00:08:00] buying that first- Digital natives
that first phone. Yeah And they were, they were born, their mama handed them one- Yeah ... to keep them quiet at dinner. So they live in it. Uh, they, their whole life has been global. It's, uh, their, their, their social media, their artists they follow, are, they're, they're every color, they're every race. Mm-hmm.
There's, there's equity among men and women in, in the arts. They're, you know, uh, they, they just don't see, they don't see the borders that, that you and I grew up with in the- Right ... South of the United States- Mm-hmm ... and in our churches. Right. They don't see any of that. Mm-hmm. And when they look at the church and they s- see those borders, they, they don't, they don't have any use for that.
Boy, that's a challenge, isn't it, for us?
Mike Glenn: Well, yeah. Yeah, especially coming out of, out of churches, most of whom in, in Southern Baptist life, uh, that we have spent, uh, that we've grown up in, uh, were modeled after something that happened in the '50s.
Bill Choate: That was amazing [00:09:00] in the '50s, Mike. It w- it
Mike Glenn: was. It was. My dad
Bill Choate: was in a Baptist college in the '50s.
He c- his whole... He was a minister his whole life. It came out of that experience. Yeah. And it worked. Yeah. And the problem when something works is you just don't think you ever need to change it. Yeah. He had a leather bound hymn book. You know, and, and those were awesome days. Yeah. And I know my parts, man.
I can sing my parts. Yeah. You?
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Sing your parts. Sure.
Bill Choate: But I mean, when you say that in a group of 20-year-olds, they don't know what in the world you're talking about. No. The
Mike Glenn: idea that you'd actually look at a page that had the notes- No ... on it.
Bill Choate: No, no. It's like shape notes to them. Yeah. Same, same, same kind of stuff.
Have to edit that out. Nobody know what that is.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Say I'm- What do we do? ... I'm the pastor of An average Southern Baptist church, what do I need to be mindful of- Yeah. Well- ... as I'm doing the ministry to,
Bill Choate: to, to young adults? Yeah, I love that question, 'cause, 'cause some of this is not complicated. It's a different world.
So I... There are really two lenses. I think about when... 'Cause I've worked with college students for s- for a long time, and there are really two lenses. One [00:10:00] lens is this generational lens. Right. Who is, who is this generation? They've been shaped by particular things that makes them who they are. That's the reality.
There's another lens, and it's, uh, what I'll talk about, the developmental lens. Every 18-year-old's an 18-year-old. Right. And they're all grappling with the same questions 18-year-olds dealt with, um, you know, 100 years ago in, in s- one way or another, in that they're, they're asking the question like, "Who am I?
Whose am I?" Mm-hmm. "Who will I be? With whom will I be?" It's the same questions you and I asked when we were in college, you know, 180 years ago. So if you, if that church will think about, like, let's, okay, let's start there. They're dealing with these questions. Um, w- with whom will I do it? Like, they're looking for, they're looking for a mate eventually, but they're looking for friends, they're looking for community.
Um, you just have to pay a little attention to a young adult. Mm-hmm. Uh, they, they may not have had a lot of attention as a child. They may have been a single-family, uh, home. That's very likely today. Right. They probably didn't grow up in church. Their parents didn't [00:11:00] join the bowling league. They didn't grow up in connected communities.
Their mom was afraid for them to get out of the house and play with the neighbors. Uh, you know, you've probably read Anxious Generations by Haidt just recently. Right. Yeah. So they don't have this community, but they're looking for it. Mm-hmm. Every 18, 19-year-old's, you know, "There's gotta be a world out here I can connect with."
How... So church, church leaders have gotta, just got to pay attention. Uh, I've been watching, uh, Forest Hills down the, down the street here. It's a great church. They've, uh, Forest Hills Baptist Church, they have, uh, have seen a real resurgence in their college ministry. Right. It's not rocket science. You, you could say, well, they, they, they changed their worship style and they have a 11:00, uh, worship that's more contemporary, and that's true, but, but I don't think that's really the secret sauce.
The secret sauce is they have, they have adult lay leaders who pay attention to college students.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Bill Choate: They, they pay attention. They build discipleship programs that connect with them. They give them a ride if they need to. They're down on campus. One of their largest groups is, is Lipscomb [00:12:00] University students who are coming to Forest Hills Baptist Church.
Well, that's interesting, isn't it? That is
Mike Glenn: interesting.
Bill Choate: And it's, again, not rocket science. They, they- Not long ago, that would've
Mike Glenn: been forbidden.
Bill Choate: Right,
Mike Glenn: right. That would've been- Oh, I probably
Bill Choate: have to not tell that on the air. Yes, right. Yeah. You know, but, um, but isn't that, isn't that exciting? But they're just doing basic, the basic stuff- Mm-hmm
that you and I know, like, okay, that, you pay attention. You've gotta get a good size group of adults together who will pay attention. We'll have them over for a home-cooked meal. Home-cooked meal. Man, that is secret sauce. That is. Uh, that is secret sauce, and I've, I've been preaching that a long time to lay leaders and student pastors in churches who work with college students.
Like, if you'll just bring them to your home. Mm-hmm. And, um, that, that is the truth. That's the tru- You know, at Brentwood Baptist Church, my wife and I work with, with the next step up, the 33 to 38- Right ... year-old married couples, and w- we, we couldn't do that without having them in our home. They're in our home all the time.
Mm-hmm. And they talk about it for, for years. And what happens over time [00:13:00] is you get to see them grow up. And, uh, the other night at church, we had this amazing service. We brought all those congregation- all those, uh, campuses together and, and in the picture it's like, oh, one of those 23-year-olds is now a trustee on that campus.
Yeah, yeah. And oh man, that's fun because, 'cause why? 'Cause you spent time with them. Yeah. You know, I, I tell folk- Put a Bible in
Mike Glenn: their home ... one of the reasons I retired when I did was when your babies become your bosses.
Bill Choate: It happens.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. That's
Bill Choate: exciting, right? Yeah. That's the whole point. So, um, that, that's...
But have them in your home. Like, how hard is that really? Basic. The, the,
Mike Glenn: the, the... For all of our sophistication, the way that the first century church reached its community was the table.
Bill Choate: The table. I, I met recently with, uh, four lay leaders out at Dixon Bapt- First Baptist Dixon. You know, it's kind of a, it's a, it's a sweet church.
They, they're center of their community. And they said, "We wanna talk to you about working with college students." Like, and I went to meet with them. We had lunch and I said, "Well, tell me what's going on." "Well, we have 60 college [00:14:00] students, and they're from all over town, and they come. We have Bible study, and we feed them dinner."
Yeah. And I'm like, "Why are you calling me?" That's right,
Mike Glenn: yeah.
Bill Choate: They're like, "We wanna know what to do." I said, "Well, don't mess that up." That's right. Yeah. "That's awesome." Yeah, yeah. Don't overthink this thing. You know? But, and then we had a great conversation about what are the next steps? Mm-hmm. What's discipleship like, look like?
And I think one, another thing churches might wanna think about is how do you... Okay, you get them there. You're doing direct discipleship. Well, let's engage them in church. My, my church in Memphis, when I was a sophomore in college, put me on the building and grounds committee, Mike. Now, that sounds crazy. I had absolutely nothing to offer the building and grounds committee.
We, uh, we bent- went out and bought a brand-new bus for that church. Yeah. And I was part of that process, and we came up with a paint sc- We ch- chose between different makes of buses, and we bought a bus for that church, and I was on that committee. And you know what? Uh, you know how much I helped? Zero. Zero.
But I'm still thinking about that. Yeah, but you were learning how to do church. I was learning how to do church. You were learning how to be a church member. And I felt affirmed, and I felt [00:15:00] connected, and I, I went to the committee meetings, and I'm still doing committee meetings, by the way. Oh, gosh, yeah.
You know, that's, we're getting paid to do that in our world. The, uh,
Mike Glenn: the, the local church, uh, and I am, I am passionate about the local church, has the opportunity to recreate the family structure.
Bill Choate: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And that you will have, um, a, a young girl, lady show up and okay, there's your mom, there's your dad. Yeah.
There are your older brothers, here are your cousins. Yeah. And even though she may not have had a family. Right. Uh, okay, I'm newly married, I didn't have a dad. Yeah. I don't know how to be a husband. Well, these two have been married 40 years. Why don't you go to dinner with them? Yeah. And, and, and these things, uh, are things that if you mention them to a church member, they'll go- Okay.
Oh. But there's no, there's no [00:16:00] big... I don't have to listen to the rock music or- No ... N- no. Right. No. You just gotta open your home, sit down at the table- Yeah ... share
Bill Choate: your stories. Tell a real story. Tell them the truth. Listen to theirs. Yep. Do a lot of listening. Yeah. Yeah. Um- Remember
Mike Glenn: them on their birthday.
Bill Choate: Yeah. Lynn Sweet has a new book out called Nudge, and it's an evangelism book, but it's all about listening.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Bill Choate: And if we could learn, like, hey, they wanna talk to somebody.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Bill Choate: They want somebody to hear them. 'Cause that phone they live with, it doesn't really listen. It doesn't talk back. Um, and so if, if we learn to listen and not judge and not freak out and not, you know...
Uh, just listen. And, and the opportunity will come, right? And, and the relationship will build. And, um, um, my, my dad always told me, you know, uh, people actually think you're a great conversationalist if you'll be quiet and listen. Yeah. Um, uh, complicated. Everybody's favorite
Mike Glenn: subject is themselves. Absolutely.
Yeah. Me too,
Bill Choate: man. Yeah. So, um, so I, I say that to [00:17:00] church leaders. Uh, you know, have them at ho- in your home. Have them at the table. Engage them at church. They don't all wanna work in the nursery. I know that's where you need them, but they don't all wanna work in the nursery. No. Figure out what they wanna do.
And, um, and, and, and listen to them, and, um, get them on the platform. I think they, they... I mean, they're working on their master's degree at Vanderbilt, they can probably read scripture. They can probably do that. You know, they might read it better than you do. And l- that just takes a little work and planning, right?
Mm-hmm. And, um, and, and any church can do these things. It doesn't, you don't have to be- No ... the megachurch. Matter of it's easier probably i- if you're, uh, Bethel Baptist Church, you know, in Greenbrier. And, uh, you, 'cause there's, there's no end to what you can do. Um, trust them with the worship band. Uh, trust them, you know, trust them with something.
And they're not gonna want... You need to know they're not gonna do it great all the time. They're 19 years old. Okay. But my first
Mike Glenn: sermon- Yeah, mine, mine- ... was awful ... oh, man. Was awful.
Bill Choate: Mm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and, and, and I'm, I'm [00:18:00] embarrassed now even as I think about it. Yeah. I still deal with that shame- ... of how bad that thing was.
Somebody let you do it. But for that, for the church that I grew up in-
Bill Choate: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: to tell me how great my sermon was- Yeah ... and that I needed to pay attention to my life because God was up to something- Uh,
Bill Choate: is absolute gold A- and you and I know, you know, I've had these conversations with 19-year-olds who come to my office and say, "I just don't know where God's leading me."
And I'm like, "What are you doing?" "Well, I'm waiting for God to tell me." Yeah. Like, do something. Yeah. Do something. But- Well,
Mike Glenn: everybody knows three things-
Bill Choate: Yeah ... God wants them to do.
Mike Glenn: Everybody knows that. Okay. Do those three things. Do 'em. Do that. Do that. Yeah. Start there. And it may be is, uh, call a friend and say- Yeah
you're sorry, or it may be to go to church Sunday morning. Yeah. Do those and then Jesus will tell you the next thing. Yeah.
Bill Choate: Uh, you know, my, I, I preached three sermons in a row. My first sermon was three sermons in a row in a little church in Arkansas, and, um, uh, at the [00:19:00] end of that three weeks, a choir member...
I'd been the m- worship pastor for a year, and the pastor was gone. I preached three services, and I knew they were terrible, and, um, you know, wasn't, there wasn't a, you couldn't paint that pig. Uh-uh. So at the end of those three weeks, the, one of the gentlemen in the choir took, uh, took me to lunch and, uh, he didn't ever say much, but over lunch he said, "You know, Bill, uh, stick to preaching."
And so sometimes you find you'll be doing something else. Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. 'Cause God works in all that. Yeah. And these young people deserve that opportunity, right?
Mike Glenn: Well, o- h- how many safe places are there to fail?
Bill Choate: Mm. You know, and they haven't had a chance to fail. Yeah. Mama didn't let 'em fail. No, uh, they didn't.
Mama protected them. Oh, my gosh, I, you know, I've been doing this all these years and, and when I started college ministry, Mom didn't call and check on how this Jimmy's was gonna do on his mission trip. No. That never happened, and now they wanna go on a mission trip. Yeah. Unbelievable. So the, the 21-year-old's never had a chance to fail.
And so if the church can do that in a loving way, that's a huge gift. A [00:20:00] huge gift.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Huge gift. All right, give me a handful, one, two, three things. Local church, youn- y-, uh, young adult ministry. Yeah. Do these things. Pray about these things. Yeah. What?
Bill Choate: Yeah, yeah. Go where young people are, and go, and then n- next week go again, and then go again, and keep going.
Wherever they are, you go. You find how you can serve that situation, that mission, that opportunity. Go take donuts every week. Wherever young people are, if you wanna reach them, go there. And they'll get to know you, and then you can invite them. Yeah. Wear their shirt. Don't wear your church shirt. Yeah. Be a part of who they are, and then you can invite them.
So go where they are. Uh, when they come, pay attention. L- uh, ask, "What do you need? What do you feel here? What do you- Yeah ... what's gonna serve you?" Listen to who, what they're bringing you, and, um, and, and welcome into your world in a real way, the home, the table. Mm-hmm. Welcome into your world. And, um, and trust that God will work through that.
Just, just sit in that, do that, keep doing that. And you're like, "Well, they don't come often." You know what? If a college student comes, [00:21:00] think of it when they come to your church in a semester. You know, they come, they come once and visit, and then they visit six more churches, then they come back-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
Bill Choate: and visit.
And then they come two weeks in a row, and then they go to the ballgame one weekend, mom one weekend, Thanksgiving one weekend, then they come back again. Now it's Christmas. They've been three times to your church. They think they're deacons. That's right. They think they're the president of the organization.
So you gotta accept what they give you, 'cause that's who they are- That's right, that's right ... that's what they're doing. So see it for what it is. Like, they feeling, if they're coming some, that's a big deal. Right. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: They've made a lot of choices to get- They have made a lot of choices ... there on Sunday morning.
Yeah, and we need to respect that.
Bill Choate: Yeah, absolutely.
Mike Glenn: I'm glad this guy joined us. He's Bill Choate. He is the director of the Collegiate Ministries at the Tennessee Baptist Mission Board. I'm Mike Glenn, and I am the president of the Engaged Church Network, and this is our podcast. Thanks for being part of [00:22:00] it.
