Taking Jesus to Work | Matthew Yates
Where do people spend 90,000 hours of their lives? At work. Mike Glenn sits down with Matthew Yates from Corporate Chaplains of America to challenge the assumption that church ministry and the corporate world operate in separate silos -- and why solving that divide may be one of the most important things a pastor can do right now.
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Matthew Yates, Corporate Chaplains of America
Mike Glenn: [00:00:00] Matthew, thank you for being with us today on, uh, this edition of our podcast. Uh,
Matthew Yates: good to be here.
Mike Glenn: Uh, we welcome you, glad you're here. You are the Vice President of
Matthew Yates: Field Development,
Mike Glenn: field Development for Corporate Chaplains of America.
Matthew Yates: I am a We have four of those guys.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, four of those nationally, right?
Matthew Yates: Three and three, yeah. Three.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
Matthew Yates: Four. No, there's four of us. It's hard to keep track of the whole nation. Is
Mike Glenn: there, is there somebody that we should call to get this information?
Matthew Yates: Can I phone a friend? Yeah,
Mike Glenn: we can do that. Well, the first question is what do. Corporate, what does corporate Chaplains of America do?
Matthew Yates: Yeah, that's a great question. Not many people know what corporate Chaplains of America do or what they are. Uhhuh, uh, a corporate chaplain, it's much like a hospital chaplain or a military chaplain, maybe a sports team.
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Chaplain. [00:01:00] Chaplain just means somebody who's called to go alongside somebody in their time of need.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Think of, uh, think of the Good Samaritan.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: That would've been a good example of a chaplain. Somebody that's gonna stop and help them and, you know, go the extra mile. Uh, a corporate chaplain does that kind of work in the workplace. And the workplace is where most people go. Right. You know, 160 plus million people in the American workforce.
Mm-hmm. And, uh, if they wanna get paid, they have to go to work. And so we show up there in the workplace to build the relationships with people, employees, and help them through personal struggles in life. So that their lives are more stable and resilient and it doesn't affect the workplace like it normally would without somebody like that.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Because our, we, we carry our pain with us everywhere and everywhere we come out sideways if we're not proactive and, and, and dealing with it. Right.
Matthew Yates: Well, that's true. Yeah. And it, it shows up at work in [00:02:00] different ways.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: At work, the pain and the struggle shows up as absenteeism.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Uh, conflict, isolation, struggle, um, it shows up as turnover sometimes.
Right. And those are things that business owners don't want to see, you know? Right. They, they hire people to kind of keep those things at bay. But the fact of the matter is, you know, the old adage, uh, when I was coming up. Huh? Check your problems at the door. Boy, we're here to work.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Well, fortunately, uh, business owners are seeing that as that's, that ship has sailed.
Um, no one comes to work expecting to leave everything in the parking lot.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. We don't just bring part of ourselves to the job. We bring everything,
Matthew Yates: the whole self.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: You know, and, but the, the fact of the matter is, Mike, is people fragment from. The parking lot to the front door.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Uh, there's this idea of a fragmentation that happens that they can't bring their whole self to work.
Uh, and there's many factors that go [00:03:00] into that mindset. It's, it's really just a mindset. We show up, you know, we take care of ourselves, we take a shower, we put on clothes, we comb our hair. For those of you that have hair, uh, we take care of ourselves. Right. And then we show up at work. But between the, the parking lot and the front door, many things about our creativity, many things about our innovation, about our performance begin to kind of fall off because we get a little nervous to go into that board meeting because the last time we said something aloud, it kind of got shot down.
Well, that was the creativity I worked up my courage to share. Mm-hmm. Uh, but the fact of the matter is you're gonna bring all of that hurt, all of that struggle, the conversation you had with your wife that morning. The, the struggle on the way to drop the kids off at school and the fights you had in the car, uh, you know, the boyfriend, the girlfriend break up the night before.
Mm-hmm. Uh, the divorce papers that got served, uh, you know, whatever it is, the, the
Mike Glenn: red light that didn't work on the way
Matthew Yates: Right. It
Mike Glenn: jammed up the traffic. Right.
Matthew Yates: The [00:04:00] addictions that mm-hmm. Came about over a weekend of partying too hard. Whatever it is, those struggles creep in. And show up at work. And if business owners don't acknowledge that and address that and take care of it up here before it cascades into all those other things, then their business will suffer.
But if they do take care of that, then their business will thrive. When people thrive, the business thrives.
Mike Glenn: Right, right.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So, okay. Now I'm an, I'm an old time, long time Southern Baptist pastor.
Matthew Yates: Okay.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
Matthew Yates: Congratulations.
Mike Glenn: Well, yeah, I was, I was at Brentwood Baptist Church for 32 years.
Matthew Yates: Oh,
Mike Glenn: okay. Had a, had a, had a great ride.
Nobody, nobody had a ride like I did. I had more fun.
Matthew Yates: Love it.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and, and all of that, there is a part of me that when I see that title, corporate chaplains mm-hmm. Wences, because the myth is that. The, the church is a haven of, of, [00:05:00] of Jesus and a godless pagan world. Right. Okay. Now I have overstated that some, but not much from what a lot of people, uh, especially religious leaders, would think that what we do in the church has nothing to do with, with what goes on in work.
And most of our members believe that what they do at work has nothing to do with what they, what they believe, uh, uh, on, on Sunday, what they like silos. Yeah. Yeah. They, we've got two different, you know, you talked about the f ization, the car ization. This is, this is who I am on Sunday, this is who I have to be on Monday.
'cause this, it's a different set of rules. So, so the first, and, and, and, and I admit this is a, um, a, uh, immature, primal reaction. Yeah. Okay. It's one of those things that's kind of ingrained in you as a little boy that you grow up. Yeah. Same here. So. Uh, so the first thing I'm thinking of, well, you can't take Jesus into the corporate world.
Matthew Yates: [00:06:00] Yeah,
Mike Glenn: yeah. Uh, with, with, with all the religious hostility and all of that, you can't take Jesus into the, uh, to, to the corporate world. Uh, you would have to make too many compromises, uh, to be an effective
Matthew Yates: Right.
Mike Glenn: Uh, chaplain in a business setting.
Matthew Yates: Sure.
Mike Glenn: You would have to, you know, be brought in to pray for the corporate, for the quarterly earnings and
Matthew Yates: Right.
Mike Glenn: And that kind of thing.
Matthew Yates: Blame it on
Mike Glenn: Jesus. Yeah. Blame it. You, uh, now I, I know I'm being a, a, a little sarcastic, flippant, but not much. You're not far from, because there, there, there is this belief that there's this dividing line that, that. Corporate can't go to the church and church can't go to corporate.
Matthew Yates: Right, right.
Mike Glenn: Has that been your experience?
Matthew Yates: Oh, 1000%. Okay. Uh, and from me personally, before eight years ago, uh, just a [00:07:00] fraction, over eight years ago, I had the same mentality. Uh, and just like, you can't take you, you can't really read the Old Testament without taking Jesus into it.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And do it right.
You can't take Jesus to work without the right guardrails. The guardrails are, you know, now wherever we go, we take Jesus. If we're a Christian, you know, we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Matthew Yates: You know, heaven and earth meet here now. Mm-hmm. Not in a tabernacle, not in a temple,
Mike Glenn: not in a place made by hands.
Matthew Yates: Right. But here. Right, right, right inside of us, the human living, breathing human because of Jesus. So wherever we go, we have to take Jesus. Taking him into the workplace, we'll open up a doorway into heaven. On the shop floor, in the boardroom, in the janitor's closet in your office because you're here. I mean, this is where heaven and earth meet now, right here.
Mm-hmm. Inside of us. Now, I don't wanna get too [00:08:00] theological. We could talk that all day long, but the silos do exist. They existed in my mind. I was raised to believe. You go to work and you check your problems at the door,
Mike Glenn: right?
Matthew Yates: And you go to work and you work as hard as you can until 1994, when I was 24 years old, uh, Dr.
Uh, Guyon, uh, I worked at the 700 Club, CBN. And, uh, David Guyon, who was the president of CBN at the time, uh, during orientation, gave a teaching on work and what it was and how it goes all the way back to the gardening, right? God made us,
Mike Glenn: and it's a good thing. Yeah.
Matthew Yates: Yeah. The work was, work was not
Mike Glenn: part of the curse.
Matthew Yates: And so I never really read Colossians 3 23 before, uh, and, and personalized it to my life. I just thought Paul's talking about the bond servants. Right. You know, the slaves. I'm not a slave. Mm-hmm. I'm a free American. I go to work, I'm in a free market, and I would silo my faith on Sunday, and then Monday is work.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And I'm gonna live my life as a Christian on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and [00:09:00] Saturday. But on Sunday, I am going to do life with my fellow believers. Now the church has a really popular saying these days it might be in your church, doing life together.
Mike Glenn: Uhhuh,
Matthew Yates: and in a sense that's true.
Doing. Christian life together, but Christian life is more than just doing it with your Christian brothers and sisters. When we're doing life, our, our life happens the 90,000 hours we spend at work in our lifetime.
Mike Glenn: Hmm.
Matthew Yates: I'm getting close to that now. I might've already clipped it. I don't know. I've done a lot of overtime in my life.
90,000 hours the average American spends working.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And we have to take Jesus with us because he lives in us. So when Paul is giving instructions in Colossians to the church at Colossae in chapter three, verse 23, he's giving kind of instruction to the bond service, uh, servants. Yes. But [00:10:00] he's more giving instruction to us as Christians
Mike Glenn: to every believer.
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: That whatever you do. I, I think whatever means everything. Mm-hmm. No matter what it is. If you're serving a master, if you're working for an hourly wage, if you're owning a business, if you're digging a ditch, whatever.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Whatever you do, do it heartily and that word heartily, you know, all that Greek stuff, it means with full force,
Mike Glenn: full energy, full focus,
Matthew Yates: full energy.
What do we talk about in the workplace? Mm-hmm. We talk about employee engagement. Mm-hmm. We talk about fragmentation. We talk about bringing your whole self to work. If you're doing everything in your work with full force, that means your employee engagement is 100%. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's up here. Mm-hmm. It's off the charts.
That's what Dr. David Gson taught us as workers at the Christian Broadcasting Network that we're to work as unto the Lord. When I caught that, I was like, I. So even if I [00:11:00] don't like my boss, I'm working as to the Lord.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Matthew Yates: Okay. I'll just do that. And just from that moment on, it was full bore force.
No matter where I worked or who I worked for, whether it was secular, whether it was ministry, it was always, as Paul instructed, heartily as for the Lord, knowing that the Lord. Will give you the inheritance mm-hmm. As a reward. Mm-hmm. So our eternal life, literally, it, it, it's stored up for us as a treasure in heaven is tied to our working Yeah.
Heartily as unto the Lord. And, and to the Hebrews. You know, we were talking before the show a little bit about Hebrew. I'm, I'm not a Hebrew scholar, you know, I can look it up in Strongs concordance. My pastor when I was 15 gave me a Strongs concordance. So I still have it. And you know that word Voda, A-V-O-D-A-H.
It's the same concept in the Hebrew [00:12:00] language for work, worship, and service. Mm-hmm. I won't go into all those scriptures. We don't have time. But the, the thought that I can have my work and my worship. And my service as unto the Lord as for the Lord.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: In everything that I do is kind of a misstep that the church hasn't really taught very well.
Mike Glenn: Right. So that, so that my work is as a, an offering of worship.
Matthew Yates: An offering of worship.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. The guy who taught me that was the janitor of the little church I grew up in.
Matthew Yates: I love
Mike Glenn: it. I love it. Uh, Mr. Green.
Matthew Yates: Mr. Green,
Mike Glenn: uh, he, our little church was spotless.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: I mean, I mean the, the floors, it was dangerous to walk on these floors.
They wax so slick.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and I can still remember the shine of, of those floors. Sure. And the linoleum and the, and how, uh, clean and, and, and polished and everything. It was in the sanctuary. But when you would [00:13:00] talk to Mr. Green, he would tell you. Jesus will be here Sunday.
Matthew Yates: That's right. Wow.
Mike Glenn: Jesus will be here.
Matthew Yates: Wow.
Mike Glenn: He cleaned that church in anticipation of the Lord being president it.
Matthew Yates: Wow.
Mike Glenn: And and so waxing floors, scrubbing toilets, all of that became not a janitorial service.
Matthew Yates: Not at all.
Mike Glenn: But I am preparing the place for Jesus. Jesus. To be.
Matthew Yates: To be.
Mike Glenn: And it turned it into an act of worship.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And you know, and I was seven or eight, nine when I heard him say that.
What a
Matthew Yates: lesson. Wow.
Mike Glenn: And I have never forgotten that.
Matthew Yates: That is awesome.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: That's a real life lesson right there.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Now, if we would just extend that to the pulpit and we would make room for business owners to understand the concept that God gave you a business, you don't really own it.
Mike Glenn: Right. You are a steward.
Matthew Yates: You're a steward. And the people [00:14:00] that God gave you to steward over. You're the shepherd of mm-hmm. In a certain sense. Now, business owners, most of them get a little nervous when you, when you start talking that way, because they, they don't feel equipped. Um, they go to church. And, and I know this for a fact because I, when I planted a church and was a pastor, I prayed this very same thing.
God give me a businessman in my church. Mm-hmm. That can help sustain us mm-hmm. And give us guidance and blah, blah, blah. I got that from another pastor that I had heard, say, I prayed for God to give me a
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: A finance a, a financier.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: In other words. Mm-hmm. And this one was a very famous one. If I dropped his name, everything you'd know, very famous person.
Long gone now, but he became a member of this church, and obviously he was a tither.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: I thought, well, that'd be great. But you know, the fact of the matter is that business owner has more impact and [00:15:00] influence over the people that are unchurched and unsaved than I do as a pastor.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: Because I get 'em for, well, in my case, I'd preach for an hour, so I had 'em for an hour.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. If you got 'em at all.
Matthew Yates: Right. And I had to invite 'em
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: And lure them.
Mike Glenn: Right. Most, most, most of those folks won't ever show up inside a church.
Matthew Yates: No.
Mike Glenn: They'll be at work every day.
Matthew Yates: 80, 80% ish. I think the statistic from somewhere between 70 and 80 that Barna gives us,
Mike Glenn: right?
Matthew Yates: The people that go to work aren't going to church.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: So there's a gap.
Mike Glenn: So how does Matthew Yates end up in, in corporate chaplaincy?
Matthew Yates: I am so great by the grace of God. That's the first thing. Um, so I guess it was those, all those years of working as unto the Lord.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Like Janet Green was his name,
Mike Glenn: right? Yeah.
Matthew Yates: Uh, and, and doing an excellent job, uh, of getting promoted through the ranks of this and that.
And all of the sudden I find [00:16:00] myself, um, talking to one of my former bosses, Jason Bates, who's our Chief Growth Officer about corporate Chaplains of America. But prior to that, 20 years before this. I love it when God speaks something to you and you don't know what it means. Don't you love that? I just love that.
I don't love that. That's my sarcasm. So I'm planting a church. I just had left the Christian Broadcasting Network in 1998. Good job. Great place to work, great ministry, doing wonderful things. Mm-hmm. Um. We just had had our third baby, we had five girls. We just had our third, Abigail was born and we moved to Lexington, Kentucky to plant a church.
And I was gonna focus on just that. So as anyone with a broadcasting degree would do, right. They pray that they could go to seminary because, you know, I probably need to know Hebrew and Greek. Mm-hmm. And the scripture's a little better than Sunday School maybe taught me if I'm gonna be a pastor. So I'm [00:17:00] praying one day in our little townhouse, God, you know, like he didn't, that Asbury University is only 30 minutes away from here.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: If you could just finance this for me, I would, I would give myself to take, get a degree.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: An M div from Asbury. And, um, he didn't answer that prayer. Matter of fact, he spoke to me that very day in that prayer, very clearly not audibly, but in my spirit, he said I seven words. I love the seven.
He will tell you something and he'll use his perfect number, but he'll not tell you what it means. I mean, you know he can do that. I have called you to the marketplace. He didn't say workplace, he said marketplace.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: Those seven words, I had no idea what they meant, and I had no idea they would change my life forever.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: So I spent 20 years [00:18:00] doing this in ministry, that in ministry, trying to do all this different stuff and this in the back of my mind. Not even knowing what it meant.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And so in 2006, uh, we had come back around to replant the church. Long story there, but, uh, I was now finding myself in purely secular work.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: No more ministry stuff. It was, uh, car sales. Now I was trying to plant a church, so they hired me at the car lot. I didn't know what this, like you hired me, I don't even know how to sell anything. I sold, uh, popcorn and wrapping paper. Yeah. As a Cub scout. I guess I was good at that. And, um, that led to this coming to work for my boss that I have now, Jason Bates at Windstream Communications.
So we're now, we're in 20 10, 20 11. We're years into this. And I thought, okay, well now I'm into the place where I'm called into the work marketplace, and now I'm leading people, building sales teams, [00:19:00] all this good stuff. Mm-hmm. One thing leads to another and it's 2018. January 1st, the LinkedIn post comes up on my feed and says, Jason Bates has just been announced as the Chief Growth Officer.
First of all, he said, what is that of Corporate Chaplains of America? And I'm like, corporate Chaplains of America. What is that? I said, that's crazy. That can't be legal.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: You know, you're putting chaplains in the workplace. Yeah. That's not right. Mm-hmm. I know, I know Corporate HR at the Fortune 100 level.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: That's not how it works. Um, so I call him up or I send him a text and he says, Hey, I need to meet with you. So we set up a meeting February of 2018, almost 20 years after that prayer. July would've been the 20th year. And he tells me the story of corporate chaplains of America and how in 1996, Dr.
Mark Cress launched corporate Chaplains of America as a way for business owners to have a chaplain in their business, to care for their [00:20:00] people, to build caring relationships with the hope of gaining permission to share the life-changing good news of Jesus Christ in a non-threatening manner. And I said, no, this, this, this can't be legal.
I gotta talk to you about it. He said, I'm building a team. Our board of directors wants to grow corporate chaplains of America, three x in five years. And I'm building a team of people. I know you're one of my former lieutenants. Uh, I want you to come and work for us. And I was like, well, you're not gonna believe this.
But that story you just told me is blaring in my mind of that prayer that God spoke to me 20 years ago, that I have called you to the marketplace. And I said, this sounds exactly like what I was called to and had no idea existed. Idea was
Mike Glenn: even existed. Yeah. Was even possible.
Matthew Yates: That's how I got there. Yeah.
Got here pretty crazy.
Mike Glenn: Okay. You show up and you say, okay, I'm gonna start working for corporate chaplains of America. Mm-hmm. What does [00:21:00] the corporate chaplain do? Yeah. I mean, you don't, you don't lead a, a, a, a prayer service or, or all the things that, that you would think a chaplain would do. Right. You know, military chaplain does the Lord's supper with
Matthew Yates: Sure.
Mike Glenn: Uh, you know, baptisms and all that on the battlefield. They do
Matthew Yates: all that stuff.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew Yates: Last rites and whatever. Yeah. You know, that hopefully we're not doing that. We have had chaplains save people's lives with CPR before, so.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: Um, yeah. It's very similar but very different. So in the corporate world, um, you know, there are all kinds of things you can do with your faith that, that are legal.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: But everything's by permission. So the key to making everything we do 100% legal is the fact that it's a voluntary benefit, and then it's all done by permission. So the by permission is gaining the permission of the employee or the individual that we're caring for. And when we do [00:22:00] that, everything is confidential.
Mm-hmm. So those are kind of the three standards of the table there. The voluntary permission based confidentiality. Our chaplains do everything by those three tenets. Mm-hmm. Without those three tenets, nothing would work. And so the linchpin for engagement for us is that confidentiality. Right. I mean, who wouldn't want somebody that has knowledge of situations, that has a seminary degree, that has workplace experience that usually has more years than you have working?
Um. Who wouldn't want that person to have access to them. Uh, and it's all gonna be confidential so you can share the depths of your heart.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Um, I had never shared the depths of my heart about that, those seven words, God mm-hmm. Spoke to me with anybody because no one had, would ever have understood it.
I mean, I shared it with my pastor, but my pastor didn't, he didn't gimme any guidance on [00:23:00] it. But when I shared that with, well,
Mike Glenn: marketplace shared a marketplace ministry, what, 20, 30 years ago was.
Matthew Yates: Yeah,
Mike Glenn: it wasn't even on the radar.
Matthew Yates: Well, you know, that was one of the things that Dr. Mark Crest kind of brought out with, you know, the, the faith in the workplace movement kind of goes back to the Christian bi Businessmen's committee.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Um, CBMC, which I guess it was founded in 1930 ish. Mm-hmm. Or something like that. It was either New York or Chicago. Don't, don't quote me on that. I can't remember. Uh, CBMC friends, forgive me. Um, but that's kind of almost in a a hundred year movement
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Not many movements of God go past 10 years.
Mm-hmm. Healing revivals, you know, promise keepers. Um. Charismatic, renewal, whatever. You know, they're not a hundred year movements like the faith in the workplace movement. But one thing that really caught my ear is when Dr. Mark Crest said that in 1998, which was the very [00:24:00] same year, I got this instruction that Billy Graham had said publicly that the next revival in America if it comes, would come through the men and the women in the workplace.
And I was like, really? He said that? Mm-hmm. And they're like, yeah. And that's been quoted around the block several times in the eight years I've been here. So that's kind of something that really intrigued me. Revival in the workplace. And so chaplains go in. And they, they have one goal, and that's to build a relationship with employees because, you know, as, uh, the famous Stephen Covey said, mm-hmm.
Relationships grow at the speed of trust. You have to build people's trust just like you would if you're a pastor. You have to build people's trust in the congregation. Well, you have to build people's trust at work when you're a chaplain. So our chaplains go in, build these relationships little by [00:25:00] little 30 seconds at a time, two or three minutes while people are working and then moving on to the next person.
And then that just opens up. The, the door for longer conversations that we call care sessions.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And care sessions can happen around the clock. Literally, our chaplains are on call around the clock. So this person might need to talk during a break. They might need to talk after work. They might need to talk in the middle of the night.
So you have access to your chaplain 24 7
Mike Glenn: or if there's a crisis in my life Yeah. A hospital ER visit.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: If, if I'm not in a church, but I'm in this corporation, chances are the chaplain for the corporation to be the one who's contacted.
Matthew Yates: That's right. And they show up.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: And that's the key. You have to show up.
Mm-hmm. So you get the call, they call them back within 10 or 15 minutes and then they show up. And we do the work of a pastor. We're doing pastoral care, if you will. Right. Uh, but we're not preaching to people and we're not condemning people [00:26:00] and we're not. Disparaging people. And we work with everyone from every faith background, every ethnicity, every race, every color, every creed, every tribe, every tongue.
And we care for them just like they were a family member. And when you show that kind of empathy and care and love of Jesus, it's literally like being the hands and feet of Jesus.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And that opens up the door sometimes to be able to gain permission to share the life changing good news of Jesus Christ in a non-threatening way.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: With people, whether it's in the workplace or at a coffee shop after, or in the parking lot before or after work, wherever. And it's amazing to see how God opens up those doors miraculously, because he's the one. That leads people
Mike Glenn: Oh, yeah. Draws 'em to himself. Yeah.
Matthew Yates: Yeah. And, and he's doing that in the background.
All we're doing is showing up. Mm-hmm. Like [00:27:00] 99% of what we do, Mike, is show up. And when you show up with the tools that a chaplain has, you, you can get some things done. You can get some work done.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And so we're literally taking that, you know, the company's open door policy that no one usually ever uses.
We're taking the open door right to the employee, right up to the curb of their
Mike Glenn: taking the door to them.
Matthew Yates: We're taking the open door right up to the curb of their problems and their personal struggles, whether they're work related, family related, it doesn't matter. Mm-hmm. And we're there to care for them and do everything by permission, putting them in full control and doing that all while they just came to work.
It's a benefit. Mm-hmm. And what does that do? It brings stability to that individual in that situation, and it brings resilience. They can bounce back from that. Mm-hmm. Because the chaplain will say, look, there's nothing that you and I can't get through together.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: You know, who, who doesn't want someone to [00:28:00] walk with them through the trials of life in a way that's not gonna be preachy or not going to be condemning?
It's going to be all by permission, putting them in control. And that's the miraculous thing that we get to do. And as a result of that, we see people
Mike Glenn: come
Matthew Yates: to Faith
Mike Glenn: and Christ. Well, you, you, you, you show up being the answer to somebody's prayer.
Matthew Yates: That's true.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. You know, I'm praying that somebody will come help me work through this.
Or, and then you show up as a chaplain and Yeah. And, uh, and, and how that works now.
Matthew Yates: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Um, the, the saying around the engaged church network is the first Reformation gave the Bible back to the people.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Put it in common language. The second reformation that we're in now is giving ministry back to the people.
Matthew Yates: Mm. I love it.
Mike Glenn: And, um, that the role of the pastor now has changed from doing the ministry to identifying and equipping those in their congregation who would then be released to do the ministry.
Matthew Yates: Ephesians four [00:29:00] 11.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. So, so a lot of what you're, you're, you're saying is, uh, uh, you know, if, if I, if I were a different kind of, of pastor and all, I would be very territorial and say that's what the church does.
Matthew Yates: Right.
Mike Glenn: Okay. And you're not there as a, as a representative of a local church. You're not there ordained by any, um, religious organization. You're there hired by the corporation or supported within the corporate structure to, to be a service of the people.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So, um. So let, let me ask the, the, the, uh, the elephant in the room question.
Why, why are you needed, um, in the workplace? Why don't these people just come to church?
Matthew Yates: That's a great question. I spent [00:30:00] years racking my brain why people won't come to church.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew Yates: You got this great church, wonderful music.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: Great preaching.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: I mean, I love the
Mike Glenn: preacher could at that. That's right.
Yeah.
Matthew Yates: And, uh, they're not coming and I'm spending all this time, effort, and energy that I don't really have to get you to come. So I love the Lord. Jesus was just a great teacher of common sense.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Now, some of the things he said didn't make sense, but we're still trying to figure those out. But one of the things that I love about chaplaincy is it's taking.
The ministry to the people to help equip the saints for the work of the ministry. See, when when you lead someone to faith in Christ, guess what? They're born again.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: They're a new creation. They need to learn some things.
Mike Glenn: They need to grow again.
Matthew Yates: They need to grow. So our organization, corporate Chaplains of America, has a high emphasis on growth commitments.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: [00:31:00] Um, like I think our 12 month rolling average is, you know, approaching 120,000 of these discipleship moments, growth commitments, helping people grow in their faith. Well, why do we want them to grow in their faith so that Ephesians four, 11 and 12 can be fulfilled? That we will train up these people, the people, the church, you and I for the work of the ministry.
Well, what is the work of the ministry? Well, if you're a secretary, your work of the ministry is taking phone calls and typing out messages. Mm-hmm. And sending emails and keeping things straight. If you're a operations person, your work of the ministry is, guess what? Keeping things operational. If you're an HR person, it's protecting the organization.
Take care of the team. If you're a frontline leader, it's leading people. So if, if we could teach from the pulpit that these things that God has called you to do [00:32:00] that you find great fulfillment in when you do them, these are his anointings on you to be able to carry out your work of the ministry.
Because if, uh, Colossians 3 23, whatever you do
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Do heartily as for the Lord, what work? Heartily. So your work is a ministry and a mission for the Lord, because he's gonna give you the inheritance as a reward for that. You know, his, his pension plan's a little different than your 401k. It's an eternal reward.
Mm-hmm. And no one can give you that except him. And so what we need to do as the church, and I can speak for this 'cause I was born into the church baptized at the age of six, called to preach at the age of 19. And there's never been a time, I've never not known the church. Right. But God called me to a specific segment of the marketplace in a weird way that now I'm a part of that.
And so [00:33:00] these chaplains are going into the marketplace and here's how this works. I was meeting with a chaplain just last week that is one of our wonderful soul winners. And I say soul winner meaning like people are coming to faith in Christ through the work of his ministry in the workplace on a weekly basis.
And uh, he told me about his first day as a corporate chaplain. He'd pastored before. You know, he has his seminary degree, he's been in the military, been in the police force, all this good stuff. And his first day on the job at corporate chaplains, he walks into one of the restaurants that he was serving, walks up to the cashier and she just starts crying.
And they already knew that he was the chaplain. We introduced the program and benefit. Okay. But this is the next week. She just starts crying, says, I just wanna find Jesus. And it's, he said, it's like time stood still. Mm-hmm. And people are waiting in line and he's over here leading her to faith in Christ at the register while [00:34:00] time was standing still.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: Literally. And he leads her to faith in Christ. And then she goes right back to work and takes people's order. And this is his first day on the job. And I'm like, dude, that's like, probably not happened to everybody, but how cool is that? Mm-hmm. You show up. You've pastored all these years begging people to come to church.
You walk into this new mission field and someone at the cast register says, I wanna know more about Jesus. I want, I want faith in Christ today.
Mike Glenn: Well, one of the struggles I had, and one of the things I had to be very intentional about is as, as a senior pastor, it would be very easy for me to go an entire week and not ever speak to somebody who was lost.
All of my meetings would be other church leaders. All of my people would be with other church members.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And I would never encounter, uh, anyone to do what I believed I was [00:35:00] called at my core to do. Which was, which was share the faith.
Matthew Yates: Absolutely. So, you know, there's, there's this concept and I, I don't know much about it yet.
I'm gonna actually have lunch with a guy, uh, after this podcast to talk more about this topic. But the, the thought of marketplace pastors
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Marketplace pastors. You know, we have a youth pastor, children's pastor, senior pastors, seniors pastor. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, teaching Pastor Discipleship, you got all these different pastors in the church, uh, and they're legitimate callings.
But what about somebody like me, who's called to the marketplace? Right? God also called me to preach. I'm like, okay, do I just stand up in the factory and start delivering, you know, my exit Jesus, on? Uh,
Mike Glenn: yeah, you could probably do
Matthew Yates: that once. Yeah. You probably wouldn't get invited to come back to work and you, you're fired.
So marketplace pastors is [00:36:00] a real intriguing concept that the church. Probably needs to get on board with, to be involved in the marketplace.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Intentionally building relationships with these priests of the business, you know, educating them on the biblical structure of how God has given them this business.
I mean, Jesus did 90 plus percent of his miracles in the marketplace, right. They weren't in the synagogue. Mm-hmm. I mean, he'd go to the synagogue and get thrown out because he does a miracle. You're not supposed to do that on the Sabbath, I guess. Right. So, uh, you're, you're going into the marketplace, you're building relationships with these business owners.
You're helping them with their struggles. You, maybe you're doing small groups or whatever with other business owners. You see when, like, going back to that thought that I had as a pastor of, you know, God give me a businessman.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Um. We, we see a [00:37:00] businessman or woman come into our church and we think, oh, they'd be a great board member.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: They're gonna be a good tither. There's, there's so much more equality there that needs to be sought after that, hey, this guy's probably on the same par as me. He has more influence over the loss than even I do. Mm-hmm. Now I've got all the biblical education and
Mike Glenn: Yeah. But they have, as a business leader, they have access to,
Matthew Yates: they do,
Mike Glenn: to re uh, to opportunities in the community that you and I will never get invited to.
Matthew Yates: Exactly. And so, you know, yeah. Have a chaplain, a chaplain's not there to be a pastor.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: Like we, we run from, we don't wanna be, we want to connect you to a pastor.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. '
Matthew Yates: cause we're a care program. We're caring for people and we're gonna show up as that care person, but. These people need bible studies at work.
Mm-hmm. And you can do those. Mm-hmm. They're permission based and voluntary. You can do anything you want and give someone else an alternative that they don't have to come. Obviously you can't mandate [00:38:00] it. Uh, or the EEOC. Be knocking on your door. You can have prayer meetings, you can have, I know businesses that have church services, chapel services.
You can have all that. Why, why not? If you're a Christian business owner and God has given you this business and you're the steward over it, you're making money. You know, when I was planting a church, three things, I needed people money and a place to meet.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: A building.
Mike Glenn: That's it.
Matthew Yates: I mean, we met in the park, but then, you know, rain comes and you can't meet, you have to meet somewhere.
And those are the three elements for a church, like how we see a church in our western culture. Mm-hmm. Now we won't argue if that's correct or not, but you know, that's the elements that you need. So, so why not have company churches, you know, why not have. A church that meets in your company. You have a training room, you have people Oh.
And you have money. You know, obviously you're making money. Yeah. That's what business is. And somehow, you know, maybe your church has a, [00:39:00] um, a marketplace pastor that pastors this church as a part of that, see that this is where the cohesiveness and the homogeneity of our concept of small groups
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Goes into play. Because I spend more time with these people at work than I spend with my family.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: And so like them, or hate them or love them or whatever, they're there. And the dynamic in that workplace is like a family. Sometimes it's toxic and you know,
Mike Glenn: it's like family,
Matthew Yates: like family. But you're, you're a part of a team.
Mm-hmm. You're a part of something that's cohesive. So why not incorporate your li your faith life into that? Imagine if a hundred people work for you and 100 people have faith in Christ. They're Christians and 100 people are living out Colossians 3 23 as doing their work. As for the Lord, knowing that [00:40:00] no matter what you pay me, boss, I've got this inheritance laid up for me.
Right? And I'm gonna shine these floors like Janitor Green did. Mm-hmm. Because Jesus is coming and he's gonna see these floors and I'm doing it as for him, what if 100% of 100 people that you have, were giving 100%. Mm-hmm. Bringing their whole selves to work. Talk about productivity. Do you know the average engagement right now for frontline workers is only 8%?
Mike Glenn: Oh yeah,
Matthew Yates: eight. You move up a level to mid-level managers. Yeah, it goes up to 14. Staggering. Move up to the C-suite. Guess what it is up there? 24%. 24,
Mike Glenn: so you could, you could double it and get it to 16% on the floor. Yeah. And, and be a miracle worker.
Matthew Yates: So that marketplace pastor is going and teaching people that are Christians coming to work, that you're working as unto the Lord.
You know, you're pray, you know, James tells us when we're suffering to pray
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm. [00:41:00]
Matthew Yates: Who doesn't come to work and suffer.
Mike Glenn: I had a friend at one of my, one of my, uh, mentors, uh, worked for a very large automotive, a uh, company in America and. Was head of training and put together a training manual based on the book of Proverbs.
Matthew Yates: Wow.
Mike Glenn: Uh, the company wasn't really comfortable with the biblical base, but he was so effective in training managers and leaders and all of that, that they left, they left him alone,
Matthew Yates: whatever. He's doing's
Mike Glenn: working and Yeah. And anybody who's anybody in this corporation has, has come up and trained under him.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So the influence is, um, is, uh, hundreds thousand times more than, than I've had as a pastor.
Matthew Yates: Wow.
Mike Glenn: Now, one of the things I wanted to get to, one of the things that intrigued me earlier in our conversation is, is the challenge of generations in the workplace.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, uh, you know, big shifts are going on.
We [00:42:00] got big shifts going on, on, we've got, uh, and, and, uh, the boomers don't understand the millennials and the millennials don't understand Gen Alpha. And, uh, so how, how are you surfing those waters?
Matthew Yates: You know, it's all training. Um, the average age of our chaplain is like 50. So we have some that are young, some that are old.
Mm-hmm. Uh, some that are retiring, some that are just starting. So you have to have the right tools. To reach the right people. Um, back during the pandemic when everything went crazy, uh, remote working became very popular. Mm-hmm. As a result of remote working, we developed some new products. Um, one of them is called Tele Chap, TELA, chap, um, which is a virtual platform.
It's a QR code. You scan and you can talk to a chaplain 24 7 with a chat, an email, a text, a phone call, or a video call. Uh, that became very popular and you know, I, my kids, you, you [00:43:00] call 'em on the phone and you have to be the one that says hello. You know, I'm used to picking up the phone and saying hello.
They don't do that. So they text, they like to text. That's right.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: And they like to abbreviate things. So we, we. We have a lot of Gen Z employees that utilize that app.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Because it's a, it's a comfortable way
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: To talk to somebody about something you might be uncomfortable talking about mm-hmm.
In the first place in a confidential manner that's gonna get the help you need. And it's instantaneous. Mm-hmm. I mean, I'm, I'm from the microwave generation. That's right. We got our first microwave in like 1985 and man, that was a game changer for my cheese sandwich. Mm-hmm. I had melted ham and cheese in 30 seconds, so now you have instant access to a chaplain.
Then we also developed another platform called Remote Care or Connected Care. And this, these are remote chaplains that all they do is serve remote employees. So think of employees that have no office. Think of businesses that have no corporate [00:44:00] office. Mm-hmm. No brick and mortar, everyone works remotely.
Mm-hmm. Marketing agencies and all kinds of different things, uh, working remotely. So they're chaplain proactively. Uh, reaches out to each of these employees every week and then back and forth. Communication happens, and then when they need someone to show up in person, we have 4 68 chaplains out there in the field that can show up at a hospital, can show up wherever,
Mike Glenn: because what we're hearing about is the loneliness caused by this remote.
Matthew Yates: Isolation.
Mike Glenn: Isolation,
Matthew Yates: yeah.
Mike Glenn: The strain on mental health.
Matthew Yates: Right.
Mike Glenn: All that. And, and just knowing that there's somebody to call. It's
Matthew Yates: very,
Mike Glenn: it's some kind of the biggest comfort that, you know,
Matthew Yates: and the pandemic kind of gave us that adaptivity because before the pandemic, you know, mental health was kind of just like, uh mm-hmm.
Kind of a taboo. Now it's a buzzword. Mm-hmm. It's like, yeah. Mental health engagement companies and the largest scale are, uh, coming and saying, we need a mental health package. There's the wellness wheel that has eight compartments, and, you know, the spiritual [00:45:00] part of that is always you open that door and nothing's back there.
Yeah. Well, we, we kind of fill that we're, that we're, we're navigating the spiritual waters of people's faith. Everybody has faith
Mike Glenn: and
Matthew Yates: some even atheists have faith. I mean, it takes more faith to be an atheist than mm-hmm. Than it does to be a Christian. I think. So here's the thing. People have a faith, they have a background, they have a religion.
We are navigating that as the Switzerland traffic cop, because they might have questions about you, their coworker. Why does he believe like those Southern Baptists? Mm-hmm. Aren't those the people that hold up those signs at Westboro? Aren't those Baptist people or whatever? I don't know if we're mentioned names, but we did.
And you know, they don't understand that. And then the Christian doesn't understand the Muslim and the Muslim doesn't understand, you know, and we're kind of there to be the neutral traffic cop to discuss all of this.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And not to push anything on anyone, but if they're ever curious about our faith, then by permission we get to share [00:46:00] that.
And so that's the key is to be as wise as serpents, but as harmless as doves. Jesus was pretty smart.
Mike Glenn: Yeah,
Matthew Yates: he was pretty smart. And it's pretty basic. And so, uh, with Gen Z, you know, they, they. Like the anonymity of the virtual care. Um, you know, even our chaplains who serve them in person will say on the, uh, we'll give the example of like a Chick-fil-A, they're off on Sundays.
Mm-hmm. That's the day that Chick-fil-A chaplains get a lot of text messages from the workers. They're off and they like to communicate with text. So they're texting back and forth doing care sessions. Mm-hmm. I mean, believe it or not, people come to faith over text.
Mike Glenn: Sure.
Matthew Yates: You know, that, uh, that didn't happen 20 years ago.
No. And so you kind of have to roll with the tide and, uh, adapt to care for people where they are. And then not [00:47:00] only that, Mike, you gotta learn, you gotta teach and train in our chaplain training program how to navigate the, the difficult waters of. Political elections and, you know, unrest in the streets.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: All of the cultural things that are going on, uh, while, while still maintaining your Christian faith,
Mike Glenn: your integrity. Right.
Matthew Yates: And so you, you've gotta navigate all that without being on anybody's side. And our missional mindset is literally that the person standing in front of me or on the other side of this phone or on the other side of my post or my, my, um, uh, whatever, uh, uh, social media, whoever that is, is way more important than all of my beliefs.
All of my, um. Mindset. My politics, my religion, them and their situation are way more important than what I have to say.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: [00:48:00] And so I need to be that listening ear to listen 80% of the time, and to talk 20% if I'm asked to, and to gain permission to say what I think I need to say by the leading of the Holy Spirit.
And when all those things line up, people will listen.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And people will get
Mike Glenn: Yeah. We, we tell people now the ministry comes before the message.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Right. You know, when I was growing up, it was a Billy Graham skill of evangelism.
Matthew Yates: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And it went right to the message. Now people have to see a difference before they will ever.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, listen to, to, to what you have to say. Now, if I'm a CEO and, uh, and I, I flip in on this podcast, if I own a business, why, why would I be interested in having a chaplain?
Matthew Yates: So if you want your people to be happier, healthier. More stable, more resilient, uh, showing up for work instead of being absent or tardy or whatever.
If you want productivity to increase, if you want absent, uh, turnover to decrease and [00:49:00] productivity to increase and morale to go up. You place the ministry of a chaplain in the mission field of your business. Now, the motivation is different for every CEO.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Some people say, I just feel like God wants me to have you here because I want to be in heaven with all of my employees.
Mm-hmm. Now I want some of 'em on a different street, maybe a different block, different neighborhood. They don't have to live next to me. That's right. Or be right across where I can see 'em. Mm-hmm. But I want 'em to be there with me. Mm-hmm. If you want your men and women that come to work to find eternal life that you have through Jesus Christ, through faith in Christ, you will put the ministry of a chaplain there.
Now, other businesses that might be larger and have HR departments mm-hmm. And employee resource groups and all of that, they might employ us to, to do a few different things like help with turnover or help assist with the care team. Mm-hmm. Or just be there to, for struggling employees emotionally. Uh, and we're, we're glad to [00:50:00] do that.
Uh, we have a whole other brand called LEAP Care Living, employee Assistance Program Care, leap Care that brings in care coaches, our chaplains become care coaches in those companies. So it's a little, the, we remove the religious name, the nomenclature speed bump. And those care coaches are caring for people emotionally and bringing that stability.
But there's always that, uh, we're we're there to build these caring relationships with the hope of gaining permission's to share the life changing good news of Jesus Christ. So, you know, just yesterday in, or the last two days in one of our leap care companies, we had two salvations at two different plants.
Wow. One in California, one in Texas, or no one in Kansas or Missouri. I'm sorry. Missouri and California. And they're a leap care company. Uh, so it's the same concept, it's just a different name. Mm-hmm. And everything's carried out the same. It's all voluntary permission based and confidential. So A CEO will reach out to us when they [00:51:00] realize that they can't get their arms around all of the personal struggles that are going on in their business.
They can see the stuff going on, but they,
Mike Glenn: that is impacting their bottom
Matthew Yates: line, that is impacting their business. Right. Literally.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And so they bring us in so that we can be the ones up here where this stuff is happening before it cascades into all this other stuff that impacts the business. And they can't be the one that, that do that.
They can't be the ones that do that, nor should they be. We need to listen to the, the dirty details of all the, the stuff that people are going through mm-hmm. In a confidential manner and process that outside of work so that we can give you back a better employee that can be productive at work. And you don't wanna put that kind of pressure on your HR team or your frontline leaders either.
You hire an HR team to protect the business. Right. They're protecting the business by protecting the people who run the [00:52:00] business, who do the work, right? And so they've gotta protect the company. So they don't need to be involved in all the personal struggles of all the the employees, because then they can't protect the business and they're spending four or five, six hours a day.
When are they gonna do their day job? Your frontline leaders, they're great. When they lead, but you get them over here trying to solve the personal problems of Mike and Matt.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: And man, they fall apart. Mm-hmm. 'cause this stuff's over their head. I've never dealt with that. I don't, I just need this to Right.
They
Mike Glenn: don't have the gifts for it.
Matthew Yates: I need to get this done.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. The same thing that makes 'em a good CEO makes 'em a lousy listener.
Matthew Yates: Exactly. So you put someone in there that's 100% focused on caring for your employees, on loving them like family so that they feel valued. We have, we're sitting here in Brentwood and over in Murphysboro, uh, there's a, a restaurant called Demos.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Kristin Demos, um, she said this to a group of business owners recently, and I love this. [00:53:00] She said, you as a business owner will never get a higher compliment than when one of your employees comes to you and thanks you and says, I feel loved and cared for because I work here.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: If that happens, you've hit a home run.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: You might have hit a grand slam. Because somewhere as a result of their coming to work, someone has cared for them in their situation to help them find peace with where they are. And hopefully, ultimately they find the peace of Jesus. That's
Mike Glenn: right.
Matthew Yates: Right. And salvation, which turns their life around.
And now they can focus on being a Colossians 3 23 employee that's working hardily as unto the Lord. As for the Lord, knowing that the Lord,
Mike Glenn: which is certainly a win-win.
Matthew Yates: It. It is. Yeah. And so when you see that kind of thing, I mean, we have CEOs, Mike, that say, because we've had corporate chaplains of America here, we've, we spend X number of dollars on chaplaincy every year, but we get back 240% more than we spend.
Mike Glenn: [00:54:00] Yeah.
Matthew Yates: And I'm like, we don't calculate that. They do.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Matthew Yates: Yeah. We're just there to care for your
Mike Glenn: people. Well, you down. This makes a difference on the bottom line, which is what
Matthew Yates: 100%
Mike Glenn: they, they, they're cared about.
Matthew Yates: It's, it's real care in real time with real results.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. So how do folks get in touch with you?
Matthew Yates: Yeah, so, uh, the best way is just to email, uh, m Yates, that's M-Y-A-T-E-S, at chaplain.org. That's CHA mm-hmm. P-L-A-I-N. Dot org or they can go to our website, chaplain.org and they can, uh, check on where they are in the region and be connected with someone that'll actually come out, show up and talk to them about their business and strategize a plan to care for their employees.
Mm-hmm. There's no business too small, no business too big to have a chaplain. Mm-hmm. And this care is much needed. Sure. And it's highly effective. And there's kingdom results. There's a kingdom return on investment. So a Kingdom ROI tied to it and the fact that we're in there helping people see that [00:55:00] their work isn't secular, it's sacred.
Mike Glenn: No, there's no divide.
Matthew Yates: There's no divide,
Mike Glenn: no. Between secular and sacred.
Matthew Yates: Yeah. So,
Mike Glenn: okay, man. I'm sitting here thinking, uh, about my friends and their work and, and where they work and how they work, where they're doing at work.
Does, does Jesus know anything about their work or what they do? Alright.
Matthew Yates: Or is he concerned
Mike Glenn: about it? Is he concerned about it?
Matthew Yates: I had a preacher one time tell me that Jesus is so concerned about you that he cares what kind of toothpaste you use. I was like, that's pretty concerned because yeah, if you told me to tell you what kind of toothpaste I'm using,
Mike Glenn: yeah,
Matthew Yates: I can tell you the brand, but probably not everything in it.
So when you think of the creator of the world, who is the living embodied word of God? Like the logos?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Logo, goss, whichever [00:56:00] he created the world, nothing was created without him. Everything was created through him. So I'd say that he has a little bit of knowledge. Of how things work and, and how work goes.
You're talking about Jesus, who right now is sitting closer to the Father God than you and I are
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Has access to the Father 24 7. I mean, the whole Trinity at work. Mm-hmm. Right now, 24 7. Just, and, and he's an advocate and we have access to the throne of grace. And if, you know, James says, if we lack wisdom, ask, and it'll be given without repro reproach.
Without rebuke rather. And so if Jesus is sitting there with the Father in heaven, he pretty much knows how things work down here on Earth. So the concept that he gave of this person to start a business or do manufacturing in this kind of way, it came from God. Every good and perfect gift mm-hmm. Comes down from the [00:57:00] father above.
From the father of lights. Our work is a gift. Our business is a gift. Our pro processes in our business are gifts from God. These are things that he has given us. So, you know, we were talking about the, the, the dr, the big draft of fish, right? Mm-hmm. Jesus standing on the beach telling the disciples that had fished all night, right?
Drop your line, drop your net on the right side of the boat. Like, okay, well we fished all night. That's probably not gonna work, but okay, we'll do it. And then they bring in 153 fish. He knew where the fish were or you know, the, the Jesus sitting at the, the well and, uh, the Samaritan woman and. He says, can you gimme a drink?
And he's like, yeah, you don't have, you don't have a cup. Mm-hmm. He, he says, I could give, if you knew who was talking to you, the living water, that if you drink this water, you'll never thirst again. She's like, you, you can't, you don't even have a cup. But he knew what living water was. [00:58:00] He knew who, he knew the guy who drilled the well.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: So Jesus knows a little bit about work. That's why he was in the marketplace so much. You know, he came up as a craftsman, uh, you know, the carpenter's son.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Now, whether that's a stone craftsman or a wood craftsman, you know, there's debate over all that. But he came up working. By the sweat of his brow, you know, with
Mike Glenn: callouses on
his
Matthew Yates: hand, callouses on his hand, and scars on his fingers or whatever.
So he knew about work and he placed himself intentionally in the marketplace. Now, he could have been like the scribes and Pharisees and just hung out in the temple all the time, but he didn't. Mm-hmm. He went out into the marketplace.
Mike Glenn: All of his stories were about work,
Matthew Yates: all of them. Agriculture.
Agriculture,
Mike Glenn: construction.
Matthew Yates: Who
Mike Glenn: builds
Matthew Yates: a tower. Yeah, exactly. Um, and so he called fishermen. The interesting thing about the people Jesus called is he didn't call anybody just sitting around.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: They were all busy. [00:59:00] They were all working. Matthew, the tax collector.
Mike Glenn: Left his office. Right.
Matthew Yates: Yeah. Left his little tax office and a very lucrative one at that.
Yeah. You know, I mean, the chosen is great. I love the chosen, but the kind of that Matthew character, you know, the tax collectors were more like gangsters.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: You know, like they were part of the mafia.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: And so, uh, he left the mafia to come and follow Jesus.
Mike Glenn: Well, I had a friend tell me the reason Zach eus another tax collect Right.
To climb the tree was he wasn't gonna be caught in that crowd.
Matthew Yates: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Somebody would've knifed him.
Matthew Yates: Yeah, exactly.
Mike Glenn: If, if he'd been in that crowd with Jesus.
Matthew Yates: It's like when you see a bear climb a tree. Oh wait, they can climb a tree too.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, that's right.
Matthew Yates: So being in the marketplace, Jesus, it, it's like. People want a Jesus with skin on.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: They don't want, there's a great chasm that exists between the first row in the church, the pew or the seat and the pulpit. There's a [01:00:00] great chasm there.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: And you and I, we've both lived it and been there, you know, the, the unapproachable, uh, man of God or whatever, Jesus was down in the dirt.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: Literally with people, the blind man, you know, let me spit in the dirt and make some mud and put it on your eyes. I mean, a guy that wants to get his hands dirty.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Um, a guy that knows what work is, he's out there, where the people are. He's going to the people. And don't get me wrong, we, we have to have pastors in churches.
I mean, we have to have preachers, right?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: But we also need to have. People who are called to the marketplace going into the marketplace.
Mike Glenn: Right?
Matthew Yates: Like chaplains and like marketplace pastors,
Mike Glenn: because it's where the people are.
Matthew Yates: If you don't go to where the people are, you're gonna have to beg them to come to you.
And how well is that working?
Mike Glenn: Not well.
Matthew Yates: How? Well,
Mike Glenn: not well at all.
Matthew Yates: Yeah. I mean, you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over [01:01:00] again and expecting a different result.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: I'm guilty of that. But let's be smart with what God has given us that these, I mean, we want everyone to experience eternal life.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: We want the father to draw everyone. Now is, is everyone, I mean, yeah. Look, look at all the analogies in the Bible of the small and the multitudes. I mean, ev even, you know, Noah, look, eight people get saved outta the whole world.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: That's a small minority, you know? Uh, the, the diaspora being scattered about in all of the, the Roman world, they were a small minority being persecuted and suffering in a larger, uh, congregation of, you know, evil doers.
Mm-hmm. And, and God's always got this remnant kind of theology playing, woven through the whole entire narrative of his story. But. Jesus came to save and seek and save that those who were lost. Right. And [01:02:00] he's called us to go and make disciples of all nations, every tribe, every tongue, every nation. And if we're gonna go look you, if you live here, all you have to do is go to a factory nearby and there's probably seven or eight different countries represented there.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Matthew Yates: Any, any factory.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: Uh, and it doesn't have to be a factory, it can be a insurance office or whatever. You walk out here at
Mike Glenn: College.
Matthew Yates: College
Mike Glenn: campus, right? Yeah.
Matthew Yates: You know, the world is beyond our church door. Mm-hmm. It's out there. Now I'm not against missions. My daughter's a missionary, just shipped her back to Argentina.
Mike Glenn: Mm.
Matthew Yates: This week she's there caring for the poor and indigent children in the slums of Buenos ira and doing great ministry with young people. And she's called to do that.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Yates: God called her to do that. But if God hasn't called you to go to a foreign country, you can be a missionary right here
Mike Glenn: in your own,
Matthew Yates: in your own business, in your [01:03:00] own school, at your own job, uh, in your own community.
You don't have to go very far to shine the light of Jesus. Mm-hmm. And when we can understand that and in turn and take that to the streets, that's where revival will happen. And I mean, we're seeing some pretty amazing things. I mean, when you're, you put a chaplain in a business and people just say, Hey, I want to, I wanna get saved today.
You know that you don't have to wait till Sunday
Mike Glenn: No.
Matthew Yates: To get there. Or Wednesday night you went to work and you're, you didn't wake up that morning and think, I think I'm gonna go get saved today. No. You woke up and said, I gotta go to work.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matthew Yates: We had 10 people in one factory that makes buckets last week.
Or a couple weeks ago, get saved all in one day, all at the same plant. All because of the ministry of a chaplain being there, chaplain building friendships and relationships and doing everything by permission and 10 people in one day [01:04:00] came to faith in Christ.
Mike Glenn: That's good stuff.
Matthew Yates: That's a good service.
Mike Glenn: That's a good service. Well, Matthew, thanks for being with us today.
Matthew Yates: It's a pleasure.
Mike Glenn: You. It has been a lot of fun. Thank you for having
Matthew Yates: me
Mike Glenn: on. We look forward to this.
