Church Websites & Social Media: Must-Know Tips for Growth
In this episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast, Mike Glenn, President of the Engage Church Network, sits down with John Pfaender, Founder and CEO of Lasting Media. Together, they dive into the essential digital tools every church needs to connect with their community in today's fast-paced, tech-driven world.
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Mike Glenn: Hi, I'm Mike Glenn. I am the president of the Engage Church Network, and I'm glad to welcome you to our podcast today. Joining me today is John Pfaender. John is the founder, CEO, grand pupa of Lasting Media, uh, a local media company here. And for full disclosure, he does take care of everything for, uh, ECN, and I really enjoyed working with John, uh, these last several months and the quality of work that he does.
Now, let me tell you why we're here. Uh, I've been pastoring or in the local church long enough To want my church to begin with the letter A, 'cause if it began with A, then you were first in the Yellow Pages. Mm. And anybody looking for a church went first to the Yellow Pages, and if your name was first, well, you had a, you had a bigger chance [00:01:00] of them coming and visiting your church and beginning that process.
John Pfaender: That is old school.
Mike Glenn: That is old school, and thank you for reminding me- ... of, of, of the mileage that I have, John. But now everything has changed. Now, not only has everything's changed, it has changed really, really fast. Uh, the social media, the digital world has impacted everything, including local churches.
Now, uh, before I retired, we would talk to somebody and say, "How did you find out about us?" 100% web. We checked the web. Mm-hmm. We found out we were moving to Nashville, so we got on the web. We found out our, our son or daughter was coming to school in Nashville, and we got on the web. So the first place that people see your church now, and this is across the board, this doesn't matter about the size of the church, the location of the church, any church, the first place they [00:02:00] encounter your church is the web.
That's why I wanna talk to John to talk to us about what a website should do, what a good one looks like, and some of the common mistakes that we should make. So I'm gonna give it to you. What in the world is going on in the world where everything now is through the webpage?
John Pfaender: Well, I mean, y- the websites are, uh, the internet isn't, is not necessarily new at this point.
I mean, it's been around for a while. So people... And I think, I think the biggest thing that, that catapulted everybody into that digital space, it was 2007 when the iPhone came out. Mm-hmm. And then you had it literally in your pocket all the time. Mm-hmm. And you could pull it out and, and search up anything you needed to search and find anything you needed to find right away.
And at that point, I think everything became digital, uh, including finding a church. Right. So, um, I think from that point [00:03:00] forward, it's just been a, uh, a constant, um, building upon that for information, an information grab, so. That was the catalyst in my mind
Mike Glenn: Was the, was the iPhone.
John Pfaender: Was the iPhone, yeah, 'cause it put it in your pocket.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
John Pfaender: Put it in your pocket and it put it, it put everything at your fingertips.
Mike Glenn: So now, because I have all this information readily available-
John Pfaender: Yep ...
Mike Glenn: the first place I encounter the church is the webpage.
John Pfaender: Maybe.
Mike Glenn: Maybe. What do you think?
John Pfaender: I came prepared. I, I, I thought you were gonna ask me what are the three things a, a church needs to do with their website, which we can get to if you want to.
Yeah. And one of those three, it's actually the third one, but it's probably the most important one in my opinion, and this is probably one that churches overlook the most, and that is your Google business page. Because churches will p- typically say, "Well, I'm not a business." Right. "I don't need to worry about my Google, Google business page."
But, and [00:04:00] if those who are not familiar with it, the Google, your Google business listing is i- if you search your church name, it's the thing that shows up on that sidebar right there that's got, like, pictures of your church- Yeah, yeah ... and it's got your address, and it's got your phone number and all that.
It, that, that is the first thing... If someone just literally Googles your church name, that is the first thing they're gonna see. That is your first impression. So it's gonna have reviews on your church that anybody's left.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
John Pfaender: Uh, you'll wanna make sure it's stocked with good photos of your church, correct address, correct phone number, correct website, all that.
That's gonna be immediately the first thing anyone sees. So it's
Mike Glenn: that picture of your church with website o- Mm-hmm ... all of that right under it. Mm-hmm. That's the Google business page.
John Pfaender: Correct, yeah. Okay. Uh, and most churches overlook that because they think, "I'm not a business. Why do I need to worry about Google business?"
Right. But it, that's just what it's called. Mm-hmm. That's not necessarily what it's for. It's for any organization that's out there that's gonna be searched to make sure that your information is, uh, correct and up to date.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
John Pfaender: That's probably the number one most important-
Mike Glenn: Okay ...
John Pfaender: and gets overlooked all the time- Okay
by churches specifically.
Mike Glenn: All right.
John Pfaender: Um-
Mike Glenn: You said there were three ...
John Pfaender: [00:05:00] there were three. The f- the first one I would say, once someone actually gets to your website, is your homepage. Like, your homepage needs to have, um, uh, it, aesthetically it should probably have very large, great-looking photos. Now, that's gonna come down to your photo staff at the church and- Mm-hmm
taking good photos. That's a whole nother podcast we can do on taking good photos at church, but-
Mike Glenn: Okay, look forward to that
John Pfaender: one. The, the, the large rotating banners of, of really good pictures of people in your church, not stock photography of random people from the internet somewhere- Right ... uh, actual people that go to your church.
But more importantly than that, your, it should obviously have your, your church branding and name so people know they're in the right place. Mm-hmm. It should also, uh, have your service times listed very clearly somewhere, your social media listed very clearly somewhere. Um, because nine times out of 10, the website may not actually be the first place someone finds you.
Um, your, the socials would probably be the first place someone finds you.
Mike Glenn: [00:06:00] Facebook.
John Pfaender: Facebook. Most of the time, Instagram- Instagram ... is gonna be one of the top places someone finds you, and then goes to your website. Mm-hmm. But once they get to your website, they can find your other social channels. Um, the second thing I would say is some of your ancillary pages on your website, two and spec- two specifically that I would focus on, and one is your About page, and, and have a listing of your staff-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
John Pfaender: with information about your staff, not just a name, but literally something written that gives a personal touch to who, who, who works at your church. Um, and the second one is your beliefs page.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
John Pfaender: If you don't, if you're a church and you're not gonna tell people what you believe, then-
Mike Glenn: That's suspect
John Pfaender: suspect, but why even exist if you're- Yeah ... not gonna tell people what you believe? So the homepage with your service times listed, your social media listed, um, and then, and your location, that's a great one too. Mm-hmm. People need to know how to find you. And then your About page and your beliefs page. Tho- [00:07:00] those are three of the biggest things on an actual website I would, I would focus on and make sure are present for sure.
Mike Glenn: Right. What are, um, what are the glaring mistakes that most churches make- Um ... that are instant turn-offs?
John Pfaender: Well, uh- Overthinking it. There's a lot of churches that will do websites. They don't wanna look like every other church- Yeah ... so they try to go very, very, um, trendy-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
John Pfaender: for lack of a better term, and they end up creating this website that's incredibly confusing and not
Mike Glenn: navigatable.
Okay.
John Pfaender: Is that a word? Navig- nav- na-
Mike Glenn: It is, it is for our purposes. Okay. Yeah.
John Pfaender: Um, it's not easily navigated, and, um, y- you'll lose people i- instantly- Mm-hmm ... because they don't know where to find the information they need. Um, so making, making that navigation bar at the top easily readable, easily accessible, and easily find the information they need.
The
Mike Glenn: same way I will leave a website if I'm trying to buy something- Correct ... and it clicks me to too many pages-
John Pfaender: Correct ...
Mike Glenn: [00:08:00] to get it, I'm gone.
John Pfaender: Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
John Pfaender: Yep. That's the biggest mistake I see, trying to be too trendy. And you end up having, instead of having... A good example of that would be the navigation bar at the top.
Instead of listing out the options- Mm-hmm ... the pages that you have on your website, you just put the little, what's called a hamburger menu, which is the three little lines.
Mike Glenn: Right.
John Pfaender: Just put that instead of listing it out. It's shocking, I know, a lot of people still to this day don't understand that that's a menu and to click that to get the options.
Mike Glenn: Well, we call it idiot-proofing. You have to make it so that any idiot can do it.
John Pfaender: In the, uh, in the design world, we call it design for stupid.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
John Pfaender: Yeah. Not calling out any names specifically. I'm just saying there-
Mike Glenn: Not, not calling out any of you, no ... maybe we
John Pfaender: should say design for challenged.
Mike Glenn: Yes. Yeah, there we go.
John Pfaender: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike Glenn: Or the lazy or, or something, or something like that. Yep. Now, as a pastor, um, uh- What, uh, first of all, does a pastor need to be involved in [00:09:00] social media?
John Pfaender: Um, I think that the pastor needs to be involved... Well, I guess the que- what, in what way are you asking? Does he need to be involved in the, in the featured in the content or, like, crafting the content?
Mike Glenn: Uh, wow. Uh, t- too many decisions here. Uh, okay.
John Pfaender: I was just playing Jesus- ... answering your question with a question. Uh.
Mike Glenn: I, um, there are extremes-
John Pfaender: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: in this world.
John Pfaender: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: There are pastors who seem to live in social media.
John Pfaender: Correct.
Mike Glenn: They're always on Twitter or X. They're always on Instagram. They've always got a 14 or f- 15-second blog or video on something that just happened.
John Pfaender: Yep.
Mike Glenn: Um, and, and I, and I don't know where they find time to actually pastor the church- Mm-hmm ... if they're doing this.
John Pfaender: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, there are pros and cons there.
John Pfaender: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, to those who are minimally involved.
John Pfaender: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, maybe the sermon's out there, maybe a [00:10:00] quote or two from the sermon, but you don't see them active on any other podcast.
Mm-hmm. So what, what are the pros and cons about, uh, uh, uh, about being there?
John Pfaender: I think it's a, um, it's a fine line, and it's a balance. Because I think the pastor does need to be involved in the content, uh, or featured in the content, um, because he is the lead role there. So I, you know, obviously there's sermons that are gonna need to be repurposed.
I don't have any problem with a pastor doing an additional piece of content like a podcast, um, between the Sundays. Um, but I d- I do believe that, uh, there is too much. And to your point- Mm-hmm ... if you're doing too much on the f- on the, uh, forward-facing side, what are you actually doing on the shepherding side?
Mm-hmm. Um, so I- the church I go to, my, my pastor actually has a really good saying, "We're not here to build an audience, we're here to build an army."
Mike Glenn: Right.
John Pfaender: So, and I, and I love that saying. So I [00:11:00] think there's a line there somewhere where you're, you're, you're using digital as a tool to build that army, but not necessarily build your audience.
Mike Glenn: Right.
John Pfaender: If that makes sense.
Mike Glenn: Right, it does.
John Pfaender: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
John Pfaender: So I think they should be involved, but not to the extreme.
Mike Glenn: So what makes a good social media platform for a pastor?
John Pfaender: Uh, talk about a loaded question because there's different platforms- Right ... and different ways to approach each platform. Um-
Mike Glenn: Okay. All right.
Good point. Let's, let's back up. There are different platforms. They're not the same.
John Pfaender: Correct.
Mike Glenn: One piece of content and one particular style won't work across the board.
John Pfaender: Correct.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
John Pfaender: Correct.
Mike Glenn: So how does somebody find out the difference?
John Pfaender: You hire a really good social media person. Either internally or externally.
Right, yeah. But you've got to have somebody on your staff that understands, [00:12:00] or, or externally if you wanna outsource- Right ... that. You've got to have somebody working closely with you that understands each one of those platforms, 'cause they are very different from each other.
Mike Glenn: Right.
John Pfaender: And have to be... And you have different audiences on each one, so they have to be spoken to very differently.
Mike Glenn: Right.
John Pfaender: So somebody's got to understand that.
Mike Glenn: And that's something that I would dare say most pastors don't understand.
John Pfaender: Correct. Nor, nor should they have to worry about that.
Mike Glenn: Right. And, and I'm not- That's not
John Pfaender: their job ...
Mike Glenn: I'm not gonna s- spend my time studying social media platforms.
John Pfaender: No. No.
Mike Glenn: I- But- That's not what I wanna...
But I, but I have to know somebody who's doing that for me. Put
John Pfaender: someone in the room with you- Right ... that does understand that. Mm-hmm. Because it's an essential tool these days- Right ... for a church.
Mike Glenn: Because that's where the conversation with the people are.
John Pfaender: Correct. Cor- and that's where, that's where the people are m- making, are viewing and m- making their opinions and decisions on a lot of things.
Especially ones that might be considering coming to your church.
Mike Glenn: Right.
John Pfaender: They're checking out the social media platforms. They're checking out the live stream. [00:13:00] They're, they're looking how well those things are put together, whether that be a good thing or a bad thing, you know, basing a church on digital vanity, I don't, I don't know.
We can get into a whole discussion on that, but, um-
Mike Glenn: I had somebody tell me one time that, uh, and it was a social media influencer like, like you, um, that if, if the Gen X, Gen Z, Millennials can't find you in social media-
John Pfaender: Mm-hmm
Mike Glenn: They're suspicious of you.
John Pfaender: Yes. Yes.
Mike Glenn: They're starting, they worry that they're, you're trying to hide something or you're not being upfront or, or something like that.
Or
John Pfaender: you just don't have legitimacy.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
John Pfaender: You're just not a- You,
Mike Glenn: you don't exist.
John Pfaender: Yeah, you're not a, you're not a legitimate entity. I'm not gonna take you seriously because I, you're not, you're not using the tools that- Yeah ... are out there. Yeah. That's 100% true.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Okay. So watching us is, is a local pastor sitting in his office, maybe sitting on his couch at home, watching this on his [00:14:00] phone and all of that, and says, "Hey, I gotta do something."
John Pfaender: Mm-hmm. "
Mike Glenn: I need to step into this. How do I get started in this process? What are the next three steps?"
John Pfaender: Well, you're more than welcome to hire Lasting Media. Uh, but I, I mean, I, first thing I would do is review, review your website.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
John Pfaender: Ma- go through the website and make sure, and if it doesn't exist, obviously build one.
Mm-hmm. But, um, m- make sure that the things I've, I've talked about are prominently visible for people to be, to easily find. Um, and second, if you really wanna focus on the social side of it, which I would encourage strongly- Mm-hmm ... then you need to look at, even if it's part-time, bring someone on, hire somebody, outsource to somebody, e- start 10 hours a month- Mm
just to start that flow of content on the social side to start creating that legitimacy and creating that, um, that thought leader
Mike Glenn: side of things. And again, this is across the board. I wanna emphasize this. This is across the board, no matter the [00:15:00] size of the church- Doesn't
John Pfaender: matter ...
Mike Glenn: no matter the location of the church.
John Pfaender: Doesn't
Mike Glenn: matter. Rural, suburban, urban.
John Pfaender: You're starting a church tomorrow. That's
Mike Glenn: right,
John Pfaender: yeah. You should go lock down-
Mike Glenn: The websites ...
John Pfaender: all, all the, the URL and all of the social handles-
Mike Glenn: Wow ...
John Pfaender: and get started.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
John Pfaender: Yep. Yep.
Mike Glenn: Anything else?
John Pfaender: No. I was just gonna make the point that, you know, we talked a lot about websites, but, and I think I s- I may have said it, so we can cut this out if not, but, um- That social media tends to be, with the, with the younger generations, the, you know, 18 to- Right
25-year-olds, that is sometimes becomes their Google. So you're a, you're Generation Ch- Chur- I'm, I'm taking a hypothetical name here, uh, in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Mm-hmm. And you're just starting up. They're, they're gonna look at you through the lens of Instagram. They're gonna pull up Instagram and search your name on Instagram first.
Um-
Mike Glenn: Before they ever give you a shot ... be-
John Pfaender: be- I mean, like- [00:16:00]
Mike Glenn: That's amazing. That is ... I don't know the percentages on it. And, and, and I, I know I'm giving away my age now, but-
John Pfaender: I don't know the percentages on it, but, uh- Yeah ... I know it is high that, um, and I can pull, we can pull the stats and put it online somewhere if we need to reference it later.
But it's, it is a very high statistic of, of the younger generation that's using the social media platforms as their search instance instead of Google. Yeah. So it's that im- so- social gets overlooked a lot of times, but it's that important.
Mike Glenn: Right.
John Pfaender: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Now, again, I wanna emphasize, every church, regardless, uh, has to be on social media, engaged in the conversation, frankly, because that's where your people are.
This is John Pfaender, and he is the CEO of Lasting Media. And, uh, if we can answer any of your questions or help you respond, we'd love to do that. You can reach me at mike@engagechurchnetwork, and we'd love to get back in touch with you. Thanks for being part of this podcast. I'm Mike Glenn, the president of Engage Church Network.
Thanks for being [00:17:00] here.
