Mentorship That Breaks Cycles | Curt Campbell
In this episode, Mike Glenn sits down with Curt Campbell of Men of Valor to talk about the power of discipleship, mentorship, and second chances. Curt shares how Men of Valor walks with men during and after incarceration, helping them rebuild their lives through structure, community, and faith. This conversation goes beyond prison ministry and explores what real transformation looks like when people show up consistently, speak truth, and walk alongside others through healing, identity, and redemption.
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Mike Glenn: [00:00:00] Well, Curt Campbell, welcome to our podcast. Thank you. Grateful for, uh, for you being with us today. So, um, as someone who has been in Middle Tennessee for a long time now, I am very familiar with Men of Valor. Uh, knew Carl and, uh, was part of it early on. Uh, but uh, for those who who were just kind of. Uh, tuning into us and all that.
So give us a little background on, uh, min of Valor.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. Well, you mentioned Carl. He was one of a kind,
Mike Glenn: wasn't he? Force of nature.
Curt Campbell: He really was. And, uh, so Carl was our founder and. In the 70 1970s, he was incarcerated here in Tennessee. Mm-hmm. In Nashville. The old walls looks like a castle out there off Centennial.
Mm-hmm. It's not a working prison anymore, but he was doing a [00:01:00] 15 year sentence out there for armed robbery. And I described Carl as kind of the poster child, for lack of a better word, for the men we work with. Mm-hmm. Um, he grew up in a. State homes, orphanages, right? He was left on a doorstep and he was three years old and, uh, started doing time when he was 10.
I mean, just a life of pure brokenness and depravity. Anyway, ended up in prison and, uh, had an encounter. I mean, Paul liked Damascus, wrote experience and met Jesus in prison and, I mean, radically changed. So he hated prisons, never wanted to go back into a prison and actually started a inner city ministry for kids.
'cause he had such a heart for children. Mm-hmm. Uh, coming outta prison and did that for a number of years. And then one of those kids ended up in prison. So Carl started going to visit him and over time it just [00:02:00] developed into a mentoring program and then bible studies more volunteers. Mm-hmm. So, in a nutshell, that's how Men of Valor started 1997.
And, uh, we've been going into prisons ever since. Next year will be 30 years. And, uh, along the road we realized that as important as prison ministry is, again, it's kind of the fishing grounds. Mm-hmm. The real rubber meets the road when guys get out.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. '
Curt Campbell: cause our society largely is not prepared to help.
Them kind of successfully transition. So we got
Mike Glenn: there not only, not prepared, but really didn't want
Curt Campbell: to Yeah, that's, that's even better said. I, I'm thankful the pendulum is swinging a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. But you're right. For years it's been like a scarlet letter. Mm-hmm. For men coming outta prison and women.
We work specifically with men, but it's as true for women as it is now. Mm-hmm. And, uh, anyway, so that's kind of what we do. We, we work with men in prison, um, while they're [00:03:00] incarcerated. And then once they get out, if they want to plug in with us, we will walk 'em into independent living. Mm-hmm. And obviously deeper relationship with the Lord.
Mike Glenn: Now because I know the ministry, you, you are, you're kind of, Hey, we just walked with you and all that. But this is a pretty sophisticated process.
Curt Campbell: It is,
Mike Glenn: uh, from the encounter, uh, while they're still in prison.
Curt Campbell: Yep.
Mike Glenn: And begin to prepare them with the discipleship and mentoring while they're still in prison.
And then moving out to residences and,
Curt Campbell: right. It is, we, well, I'll say we have a simple process with a very, very complex demographic.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. It's simple that it is not complicated. It is not easy.
Curt Campbell: It is not easy, and that's why there's not many people doing it.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Curt Campbell: And, uh. And honestly the prison piece is pretty easy because people joke that it's a captive audience, but it is.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And [00:04:00] so they're there every week when you go, once they get out, it's a whole different ballgame. Mm-hmm. Trying to stay in relationship and minister to. And so, uh, yeah. A big part of what we want to do is make sure that what we offer for men is a fit for them. So the prison environment is a little bit of a testing ground for us.
Mm-hmm. If a guy can't do what we're asking him to do while he is incarcerated, he will never do it on the outside. Right. No way. Mm-hmm. Um, and so not everybody wants to change life. You've been in the church mm-hmm. Forever, right? Mm-hmm. A lot of pew sitters and there's a lot of guys in prison who shout hallelujah.
But when it comes to day-to-day life, they don't, they don't really wanna follow Jesus. Um. But there are a lot of men who really are broken. They want a different kinda life, but they have, and I'm telling you true, Mike, they have no idea how to do it.
Mike Glenn: Oh yeah.
Curt Campbell: No idea.
Mike Glenn: Yeah,
Curt Campbell: because they've never [00:05:00] seen it done.
Never. They didn't have a dad.
Mike Glenn: It didn't grow up with it.
Curt Campbell: No mentors, no anything. And so. Yes, I want a new life, but what does that look like?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And so that's where we call it relational discipleship.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
Curt Campbell: Right. One Thessalonians two eight says, we loved you so much that we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God,
Mike Glenn: but our full self,
Curt Campbell: but our very lives as well, man.
And so, yeah. E everything we do is rooted in the love of Christ and God's word. But man, it's just, it's doing life together.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. So we have a, a, a young man who is in prison who's indicated I would, I would be open to a conversation with men. Ofour. Take me through that process.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. So I kind of describe it as a funnel.
So like, um, let's see. Uh. Last two years, we've had Tim Tebow come in right. Do prison events for us. Um, we got Jelly [00:06:00] Roll coming in to do a big event. And so this gets general population guys, like guys in the prison who would never step foot in a chapel service. Right. Might come to hear Tim Tebow or, or Jelly Roll.
Mm-hmm. And so when Minne Valor gets an opportunity to. Get before these hundreds of men, we will say, Hey, you're gonna hear from Tebow about how his life changed when he encountered God through Jesus Christ. Mm-hmm. Men of all out here every week. And we would love to talk if you're interested in what happened with Tim Tebow or, or Jelly Roll.
Mm-hmm. We would love to get to know you and just help you learn more about who this God is they're talking about. If indeed he, if indeed he did create you. Mm-hmm. And has a plan for your life, how do you discover what that is? Right. So we take that general introduction and then we get them into weekly small groups where we, with volunteers, they're in God's word every day, they're journaling.
Mm-hmm. And then we get together in small groups and just [00:07:00] talk about what did you hear from the Lord this week? And just we're beginning to build not only relationships together, but. A, a relationship with the Lord.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: So as guys kind of progressed that through that, but we've had guys now in discipleship groups for over a decade.
Mm-hmm. I mean, imagine that in God's word every day, journaling, sitting in small groups for over a decade. These guys are leading groups in prison. Right. They don't, they don't need volunteers to do it anymore. Right. And that's part of the replication process. Sure. But for guys, when they get out, and a lot of guys when they're coming out of incarceration do not have a.
Great place to reenter.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: Where they don't have family support. They don't,
Mike Glenn: there's no, there's no structure to
Curt Campbell: hold
Mike Glenn: their life to. No.
Curt Campbell: Typically they're going a
Mike Glenn: skeleton in the body.
Curt Campbell: That's right. They're going back to where they were before they got into prison, which was not a good place.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: So for guys that won,
Mike Glenn: like someone getting sober at an AA meeting and then going back to the bar.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. Going to work at be a [00:08:00] bartender. Yeah. So it's crazy. Yeah. And, and again, society just, we're not set up for successful reentry. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's sad. Even many of our halfway houses, what they call 'em, you know, transitional houses are basically flop houses or crack houses. So guys get outta prison, they go there thinking this is gonna be a step in the right direction, and they're right back in.
The same, actually works against temptation. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So men of, we've got two campuses for reentry. Mm-hmm. One here in Nashville that's got 93 beds and one in Knoxville that has 30 beds. Guys go through an application process. We want them to understand what they're getting into. It's not easy. Like you come out of prison, you're free, and now you're gonna submit yourself to a curfew, not having a car for six months.
Mm-hmm. Attending classes, you know, and so it. It's serious, but through our years of doing this, it's a formula [00:09:00] that works. Mm-hmm. And the numbers prove it. Guys who commit to it and do it are killing it.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: So
Mike Glenn: what, what, what are you bragging numbers there?
Curt Campbell: Well, um. Yeah. A lot of people talk about recidivism.
Mm-hmm. I'm not a big recidivism guy, but it does help measure
Mike Glenn: right.
Curt Campbell: Effectiveness and impact. So recidivism is defined by, if somebody returns to prison within three years of getting out, they have recidivated. So our national average is 70%. Wow. Seven out of 10 people who get outta prison will return within three years.
Mm-hmm. That's crazy. Men of all in our history for graduates has been less than 17%. I think that's about where we are right now. Wow. It's been as low as eight. Kind of fluctuates. Yeah. 'cause it's measured in three year cycles, so we know it works. Um. W where I [00:10:00] talk about impact is according to God's truth.
Mm-hmm. Which is our measurement tool, right. Is that God's word will not return void. It will accomplish what he sets forth to accomplish. And every guy who comes to us, here's the truth of God's word. Mm-hmm. And he is deeply loved by us. And we believe that those seeds. Planted. Whether a guy goes back to prison or not, the results are on God.
So we're, our job is to be obedient, to faithful, to love these guys. Mm-hmm. To give 'em an opportunity and tell 'em the truth. And then what they do with their lives is between them and God.
Mike Glenn: So talk to me about the nuts and bolts of someone comes out. They're in the, there isn't. They're in the residence.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So what's their day look like? What's the process look?
Curt Campbell: Yeah. So first 30 days is. Really focused on, I'll just call it [00:11:00] detoxing from prison.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: Prisons. I know you've been in prisons. They are evil, dark places. That's right. No trust, no safety. And so when these guys come to campus, we want 'em to just be able to breathe deeply.
Uh, it's funny, one guy said, uh, he walked in his duplex and there was on the kitchen, you know, it's a fully furnished kitchen. Yeah, right. There's a whole set of. Wooden steak knives. It's Right, right. Yeah. And he hadn't seen a, that's, that's a shank and a weapon in prison. That's right. So he was like, oh my gosh, I'm in a different place.
Um, but praise God, we've never had incidents. Right. This is amazing. Um, but anyway, so a guy comes out. So those first 30 days, number one, we're gonna help him with everything he needs before he starts working. So a health exam, he's gonna get his identification, state id. Mm-hmm. If he's got a valid driver's license, get that up to date, renewed [00:12:00] birth certificate if he needs it.
Resume done. Add infinitum, right? Mm-hmm. Dental care. So just meeting the basic needs. Um, which again goes back to Matthew 25, right? That's right. Yeah. Just taking care of people. Mm-hmm. Um. And then the other thing we do is those guys during their first 30 days are in therapeutic classes. And what I mean by that is they're working in a garden.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: They're going to a farm, working with animals. Mm-hmm. They're sitting in group counseling sessions. They're in one-on-one counseling. They're in fundamental, like, who is Jesus Christianity 1 0 1 classes. So for 30 days coming outta prison. They are immersed in love and peace and safety and reentry, and so we're just getting them ready to go out into the world.
Mm-hmm. Right. So day 31, they start with one [00:13:00] of our job partners and that is a huge blessing. We've, you know, we used to be cold calling, knocking on doors. Oh yeah. Trying to find. Employers who would hire our men. Now we have people.
Mike Glenn: Carl has some great stories. The founder No, for sure. Of, uh, the early days when he was trying to,
Curt Campbell: it was hard work, man.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Well, well, you know, trying to get this, you know, you have a guy who'd been in prison talking to a guy about hiring other people from prison. Yeah. Uh,
Curt Campbell: it's a hard sell. Yeah. Yeah. Thankfully, 30 years in, we've got so many testimonies from employers who said, best credibility have been about. Guys, you know?
Mm-hmm. But we're also, um, trying to get guys decent jobs. Now the jobs we get, 'em may not be what they're gonna be their career for the rest of their lives. Mm-hmm. But we do want to be jobs that are gonna have benefits, upward mobility. Uh, a lot of our guys do, they end up being supervisors and managers mm-hmm.
At the, at the companies that they go to work [00:14:00] for. So we're not looking for fast food. That kind of thing. Mm-hmm. We want, want real jobs for these guys. Um, so anyway, once they start, what's
Mike Glenn: the importance of a job?
Curt Campbell: Oh man. Self-worth for one thing. Um, identity plays into that
Mike Glenn: Dignity of work.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, think about, yeah, dignity is a good word.
Think about one of the first. Things somebody asks you when you meet 'em, what do you do? Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Where Yeah, yeah. Where you work. Yeah. Right.
Curt Campbell: And, uh, so to be able to answer that with, with pride and conviction that, um,
Mike Glenn: yeah. I tell people in the creation story, God put Adam in the garden to work it and to care for.
He had a job. That's
Curt Campbell: right.
Mike Glenn: He got Eve two, three verses later. So I tell people God gave Adam a job before he gave him his daughter. So that's
Curt Campbell: good. I
Mike Glenn: like that.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. And all that was Precursed.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, right? That's right. Yeah.
Curt Campbell: Work is a gift.
Mike Glenn: Work has all always been part of it. That's
Curt Campbell: a gift. [00:15:00] So, um, so anyway, once a guy starts working, then.
He is, it's a quarterly program, so we got a freshman, sophomore, junior, senior where we kind of have a different focus each quarter. Mm-hmm. On what that guy's working on. He's in class one night a week. He's in a discipleship group one night a week. They have, um, community service on the weekends. They attend church here locally.
Right. We got about eight church partners where they rotate during their first six months and hopefully find a home church for their second six months. I began serving. Um, but anyway, it's, it's a, it's a slow walk into independent living. Mm-hmm. They start out in group housing, 15 guys in a duplex with a house manager, eight 30 curfew.
After six months, they move into a two bedroom, basically apartment or town home. 10 o'clock curfew, they can have their own car at that point. Mm-hmm. If they want to. Uh, no house manager, they get weekend passes, you know, getting to hang with their families and all [00:16:00] that. And then at one year mark, they graduate.
They can stay and be in part of our graduate program and. Just as long as they're an asset to the community, uh, it's great to have guys around Right. Who've, you know, walked the road already as new guys are coming in. And then, uh, we've got a great alumni program where guys who have been through men of Valor through the years mm-hmm.
Come back and hang together and do fun events and it's a family. Oh yeah. It's, and and that's a really cool thing is obviously, you know, we deal in the world of addiction. Incredible depravity. And so we see guys fall all the time.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: Um, by the world standards, even as successful as we are, we probably see more failure than we do success.
Sure. If the world was measuring it, but these guys who maybe relapse or quit 'cause they want to go live with a woman or you know, whatever. Mm-hmm. Um, inevitably [00:17:00] when the. Uh, storms of life hit.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: They call and they come back because they know they're loved.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. It's a safe place here. It's
Curt Campbell: safe.
They're part of a family
Mike Glenn: now. When, when you're describing the ministry, I'm sitting here thinking, going, you know, there's nothing particularly hard about any of that.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, and there's nothing particularly, uh. Uh, creative, I would say
Curt Campbell: Mm.
Mike Glenn: About putting the structure in these guys' lives. But these guys have had, had no structure, uh, outside of the prison system
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: In their life.
Curt Campbell: That's right. And, and so you just, what is like a no-brainer to you and me. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: We see guys make choices that we're like, dude.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: You know, but it's just, it's what they've always done. Yeah. It's almost like this, they've created this habit and this pathway of this, if a happens, [00:18:00] I do this.
That's right. Yeah. Right. And it, and so breaking that cycle takes. Time and prayer and counsel. They, they, they're, I describe them as messy.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: Tangled lives. Mm-hmm. Like, you can't believe it. So Yes. It's simple, not easy. Yeah. Like you've said. And uh, and so that's why we say to people, you know. It is incredibly rewarding work because you got a front row seat to the activity of God.
Right. But it's heartbreaking as well
Mike Glenn: all the time.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. Yep. But as a pastor in a church for years and years,
Mike Glenn: yeah. You have stories.
Curt Campbell: You've seen the same,
Mike Glenn: same, same thing.
Curt Campbell: None of us are immune to. Stupid choices. No. And the consequences to
Mike Glenn: follow, right? No, not, not at all.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: What, uh, when, when you hear the stories of these, of these guys, are there common themes?[00:19:00]
Curt Campbell: For sure. Um, a couple of resounding ones are fatherless homes, like I mentioned about our father grew up America, founder, um, most of, most. Of our men grew up with absent fathers. Mm-hmm. Either they weren't there at all or they were disconnected emotionally. No role model. Um, broken homes, which goes hand in hand, but abuse, early childhood abuse, physical, sexual, emotional.
Um, an early introduction to drugs and alcohol.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And the streets, in so many cases, it was modeled for them.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Curt Campbell: I mean, it's, I can't say, but they
Mike Glenn: saw at home,
Curt Campbell: that's what, yeah. Their first experience being drunk or using drugs was with a parent.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: Or an uncle. It's crazy. So, um, you're probably familiar with the term ACEs, adverse Childhood Experiences.
Powerful [00:20:00] study for anybody that's listening that want to look that up because if you deal in this world at all mm-hmm. If people had adverse childhood experiences, there's 10 that are identified. If you've got four or more of those, the. Probability of your life being dramatically impacted in terms of education level, health, your physical health, physical, mental health,
Mike Glenn: length of life
Curt Campbell: length, all that.
Mm-hmm. I mean, it is, it's crazy.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And very few of our guys only have four. Of the 10, most of them have, yeah, far more. We've got guys who have 10 outta 10.
Mike Glenn: Wow.
Curt Campbell: And so imagine that coming outta prison with no effective intervention or advocacy.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: I mean, that's where you go. Well, no wonder are.
[00:21:00] Recidivism rates 70% nationally, right? Right. We got train wrecks coming out into a place that doesn't want 'em, no support. Of course, they're going back, but where we can't just ignore it is in order for them to go back, it means they victimized somebody else.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Curt Campbell: So if we're not intercepting this issue.
While we've got a window of opportunity during incarceration mm-hmm. And those important first few months out, then it's on us.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: You know, and that's where the church has to get involved, man. Who, if the church isn't gonna do it, who's gonna do it? Government can't do
Mike Glenn: it. No, no, no. That,
Curt Campbell: yeah.
Mike Glenn: And uh, and, and I tell people all the time, I'd rather prepare than repair.
Curt Campbell: Mm. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And if I can get into, and if I can get into your life and start building good habits and, and, and, and good processes. Yeah. Then maybe we don't have to come back and do the
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: The, the really hard work. Yeah. Yeah. The repairing. Yeah. You know, on that kind of stuff.
Curt Campbell: That's good.
Mike Glenn: Uh. [00:22:00] How did you end up nice Baylor boy that you are, how did you end up prison ministry?
Curt Campbell: Nice. Baylor boy. Thank you. That's funny. Carl used to describe me and Tevin Peterson, one of our other guys, right? That's been with us a long time. He said we were his squeaky clean white guys. And that funny, you can hear Carl saying it, which neither of us are. Mind you. Um. But so many of the guys that are on staff now are formerly incarcerated and have come outta addiction and all that, so it was, it was funny to hear him say it.
So at Baylor, I was a sociology major, and I always thought I might end up like C-I-A-F-B-I. Mm-hmm. I, I had this fascination with the criminal world underground. Mm-hmm. Godfather, all that kind of stuff. And, uh. So I had an emphasis in criminology and juvenile delinquency. Went to a couple prisons visits in college, and I think it just lit my fire a little bit and God [00:23:00] did some.
Crazy work in my heart in college that just made me think I'll probably never be totally fulfilled outside of ministry. Mm-hmm. So I kind of started going down the ministry track, but I always had this lingering thing for, for the dark world, you know, so to speak. And, uh. So when I got to Nashville, came here chasing the music thing, I was playing a bunch of basketball, met some guys who loved the Lord.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And were great ball players. And I thought, man, let's go in and play some prison teams and we'll. Take the gospel. And so as we started doing, playing, playing ball in prisons, and man, we had so much fun. Probably did that six or seven years. And then I met Carl through the YMCA. Mm-hmm. And he told me he was fixing to start a prison ministry.
So I said, dude, I, I got a group of guys. We'll come volunteer with you if, uh, you get rolling. And, uh, so Carl and I became friends and he, he was gonna start a project in [00:24:00] 2005. So I started volunteering in 97 in 2005, core Civic, which at the time was Corrections Corporation of America. Mm-hmm. Gave Valer a unit of their prison.
Mike Glenn: I remember that.
Curt Campbell: To run a faith-based program, 104 guys. And Carl asked me to come in and help design it, hire a staff, and develop the curriculum, which in essence would be manhood, training and discipleship. And I, I said to Carl, I said, so you're telling me you want to pay me to disciple men? And he said, yes.
I said, I'm in. It wouldn't have mattered who it was. Yeah. I, I would've done. Uh, college students, athletes, mm-hmm. Prisoners. If I had the opportunity to pour Jesus into men, I was, I was all in. So I didn't know I'd be doing it 20 something years later. But it's been an incredible ride, man. God's done more in my heart in life than he is done in any of the men I've worked with.[00:25:00]
Mike Glenn: Okay. I'm a, I'm an average guy sitting out here. This podcast pops up, I click it outta and stuff, and, and, and I'm thinking, you know, that might be something I could do. What does it take to be a mentor?
Curt Campbell: Man? I love that because it doesn't take as much as most people think.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: Um. I'm gonna start with if, if you're a Christ follower, you don't have to be a Bible scholar.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: But if you love the Lord, then innately you should love people.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And so if you have, uh, a heart for the Lord and a love for people, this may be one of the most. Mm. [00:26:00] Non-threatening opportunities for ministry that you'll ever have. And what I mean by that is the bar is so low when, when a man who you're gonna be meeting with has never had a man in his life.
Mike Glenn: Right? So the fact, so the fact that you would show up consistently.
Curt Campbell: You're not gonna be compared to anybody. That's right.
Mike Glenn: That's that's right. Yeah.
Curt Campbell: That's a great first example. Mm-hmm. Is just being
Mike Glenn: there. I I, I told you I'd be here at 11. I'm here. I'm here.
Curt Campbell: That's right. And so it's not having all the answers.
I mean, how many of us have all the answers for our own lives? Mm-hmm. None of us. Yeah. So I don't have them for everybody else either, but just being there, being present. Mm-hmm. Walking with a guy, helping him process, helping him with resources. Most of us who are 30 years old or older have a community
Mike Glenn: Right.
Curt Campbell: Of people. Yeah. We've [00:27:00] worked with, we've gone to church with, we're friends with. Mm-hmm. These guys don't have that, that who
Mike Glenn: is it? Um, uh, the guys out of, uh, covenant in, uh, in Chattanooga. Finkel, who wrote the book on poverty, defines poverty as the lack of access.
Curt Campbell: That's,
Mike Glenn: see, it's not resource, A lack of access.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Something happens to you and me. We know who to call.
Curt Campbell: Exactly.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
Curt Campbell: These guys do not, these
Mike Glenn: guys don't
have,
Curt Campbell: they're starting from scratch.
Mike Glenn: They don't have anybody
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: That, that they,
Curt Campbell: yeah. And even the ability to use technology.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Curt Campbell: That we're, we've become fairly mm-hmm. Adept at, they've been sitting in prison for 10, 20 years.
Mm-hmm. They don't know so. Anybody can do this if they have a heart, heart for the Lord and a heart for people. It's just a matter of showing up. Um, you, I will give a caution. You don't want to get in the Santa Claus mode.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: Or the, the savior mode, right? Right. We're not the savior. [00:28:00] Um, we just are there in a supportive friendship, prayer role.
And like you were, I, I love this quote. One of the best thing we can do for our friends is share our friends,
Mike Glenn: right?
Curt Campbell: So if I can help a guy, maybe. Not get a job, but get some interviews.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And maybe I go with him
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: As an advocate, just to, just to sit in and encourage him, pray for him in the parking lot, lot while he is in there.
Help him if he gets told no. Mm-hmm. 43 times to, you know,
Mike Glenn: well, and, and, and you're, you're telling this story. So, so for so many of us who are fortunate, I had a good dad. Uh, and, uh, you know, I, I tell people all the time, I said, I grew up thinking my dad was normal.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And then you realize this man is not normal at all.
He's extraordinary. Uh, and he taught me, my dad taught me how to shake hands. Mm-hmm. My dad Awesome. Took me in the living room. [00:29:00] This is how you shake hands. Wow. He brought my mother in and said, when a woman walks in the room, this is what you do.
Curt Campbell: So good.
Mike Glenn: And, and he's telling me, he said, listen, he said, whether or not a guy does business with you is gonna be determined by what his wife says about you after they leave the meeting.
Wow. So if she says, good, yeah. Husband, I love that guy, then he's going to turn around and do business with you. Yeah. So these are the kind of things that my dad taunt me,
Curt Campbell: man. I love it.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. And, and, and again, I thought that was normal.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. Think you, you talked, you used the word dignity earlier. Yeah. And I remember one time, just a few years ago, I don't do it often, but I took a bunch of my ties in mm-hmm.
To a group of guys.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And just said, Hey, we're gonna work on tying ties today. One guy. Out, maybe 15, knew how to tie a tie.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: But to be able to stand in front of a mirror and do that, you know how many of 'em wore are tied to church the next Sunday? Oh yeah. Every one of 'em.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Curt Campbell: Right.
[00:30:00] Because they were,
Mike Glenn: this is what men do
Curt Campbell: pr. That's right.
Mike Glenn: This is what a man, man ties a tie.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: That's right. Yeah.
Curt Campbell: So J again, when you're saying, what can a guy do? Mm-hmm. The little things, man.
Mike Glenn: Well, you, one of the running jokes in our, with the stories in our family is, uh, my son walks by me one day and I said, I said, where you going?
He said, I'm gonna apply for a job. I said, where you going? He said, I'm going over here to the Baptist bookstore 'cause I heard a NY and he's got on a flannel shirt and jeans with holes in them and uh, you know, necklace and all this. And I look at him, I said, I said one question. 'cause you know he's a teenager now.
Sure. So he can't listen anything Dad says. I said one question he said, he said, uh, what? I said, do you want the job? He said, yeah. I said, guarantee you're not going to get it.
Curt Campbell: Mm.
Mike Glenn: He said, what do I do? I said, go put on a coat and tie. He said, nobody wears a coat and tie anymore, dad. I said, exactly.
Curt Campbell: You love it.
Mike Glenn: You're gonna show up with a coat and tie. Yeah. I said, let's get together your resume. You have to fill all that stuff out. I said, exactly, and you're gonna hand this piece of paper and say. Here's some [00:31:00] other things you may find interesting about me.
Curt Campbell: I know
Mike Glenn: I said, and that's what we're, that's what we're, now he goes over and gets a job.
Well, two or three days later, his twin brother's walking. I said, where you going? He said, well, Craig says they're hiring. And Craig looks at me, then looks at his brother and says, Hey brother, you want the job?
Curt Campbell: I love that.
Mike Glenn: Well, those are the kind of things I took for granted, because that's what my dad did for me.
Yeah. Now you're having. Uh, a, a generation, uh, and, and we're not exaggerating with this.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Because one of the things we're finding out about men is how lonely men are.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, who don't have anybody teaching them these basic life skills. Right. That give the dignity, that give the pride, that give the pride in the best sense of that word.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. And you know, we're talking about inherent manhood. Yeah. And as I'm sitting here thinking about people who might be listening to this, particularly younger
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: Looking at two old [00:32:00] gray heads going, they are so old school.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: Right. But what we're talking about is the core of manhood.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And it's self-respect, it's respect for others.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: It's kindness, it's gentleness, and it's, and those are the things that matter in life. Right. It's how we connect
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: With, with people. So. Uh, yeah, man. As much as our world is changing those core,
Mike Glenn: they don't never go out.
Curt Campbell: They do not go out. Yeah. It's it, God has wired it
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: Into us.
Mike Glenn: Uh, that's a great example with yourselves.
And now you have, uh, a generation who doesn't know how, how to live their life. They don't know who they are. Yeah. And, and they don't. So, so one, if, uh, if, if any young adults are listening to us and they don't have a father, you can't help that.
Curt Campbell: No.
Mike Glenn: I mean, [00:33:00] your dad made decisions. You're living with them.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Go find you a father,
Curt Campbell: man. Amen.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Uh, go find the guy that you want to be like.
Curt Campbell: That's right.
Mike Glenn: Take 'em out for a burger or say, and say, I need you to mentor me nine times out 10, the man will be thrilled and honored to do that.
Curt Campbell: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: Um,
Curt Campbell: yeah,
Mike Glenn: if you are old and great like I am and like you are,
Curt Campbell: yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, find somebody to mentor.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but yourself in a place and, and Mike, I'm telling you the guys who mentor with us. It's life changing for them. Oh, sure. It is life changing. I think part of the reason they love it is there is an authenticity to our guys. Mm-hmm. There's a brokenness, not an arrogance.
Like they know they need help. Mm-hmm. They know they're desperate and so any of us to be needed. Or wanted, [00:34:00] what a great feeling.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: You know?
Mike Glenn: Well, and there, there's a certain freedom when you screw up is out there for everybody to see.
Curt Campbell: That's true.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, well, you know, if, if, uh, those of us who are, uh.
You know, have we, we get pretty good at, at hiding our screw ups and burying them and all of that. Uh, you know, but when you've been on the news, listen, been arrested and all that. Yeah, that, that's who I am. That's what I did,
Curt Campbell: man, Mike. So, to that point, and again, talking about how simple it is to make a difference and how profoundly you can make a difference.
So these guys. Without exception that all the prisons that I've been in, they wear a uniform that either on the back, says inmate mm-hmm. TDOC inmate
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: Uh, down [00:35:00] the pants, leg.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: Property of Tennessee.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: They are labeled, they wear that same uniform every day for
Mike Glenn: 20 years.
Curt Campbell: It could be a long mm-hmm.
Long time. Mm-hmm. It is their identity.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: A lot of guys will say, I'm, I'm a number, because that's how they do life every day, is they show their number. Mm-hmm. Or they quote their number, um, to be able to. Arrest that mentality of that identity and say to somebody, bro, like lean in.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And say, do you know that you are created in the image of a God who loves you?
Mm-hmm. Like. You weren't an accident. No. I know. Your folks told you it was a one night stand. You never met your dad. [00:36:00] God knitted you together. Mm-hmm. And he put you intentionally into your mother's womb. Mm-hmm. Like just giving this guy a new sense mm-hmm. Of who he is really. Mm-hmm. It's life changing.
And then we just continue to support and validate that truth and it is truth, and help them live out this new identity. Man, it's. Imagine somebody doing that for you. If you were that,
Mike Glenn: oh, well
Curt Campbell: lost, or if you were in that dark of a place and somebody just flips on even a hint of light.
Mike Glenn: Well, you know, I tell everybody that to to hear my dad talk.
The Glens were royalty in Europe and we had castles and all of that, and he would tell me, stand up straight. You're a glen.
Curt Campbell: Wow,
Mike Glenn: stand up. This is, that's not the way a glen man does that. And so that's what I had, you know, and then, you know, we do the family history and we're Scottish Irish mutts from, [00:37:00] came down to Virginia and North Carolina, but you didn't know.
There's no royalty. There's no seal or, you know, coat of arms or nothing. I'm sorry man, we're just mutts.
Curt Campbell: That's funny.
Mike Glenn: But, but my dad.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Spoke to us as if we, we had a history to live up to. Uh, and, and of course he lived that. He lived that out. He lived that out for us. Um, let's
Curt Campbell: go. Is your dad still living?
Mike Glenn: No. Lost him back in 12, but, uh, you
Curt Campbell: were blessed.
Mike Glenn: Yeah,
Curt Campbell: I'm blessed too, bro. Yeah. My dad's still alive.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: 61 years of marriage.
Mike Glenn: He and my mom, he and my mom worked and stuff. Uh.
What's the long term plan for, um, meno Valor. And I know we got the campus in, in, uh, Knoxville. Yep. Got the campus here. Campus here is relatively new.
Curt Campbell: It is [00:38:00] opened in 2018. Yeah. And the Knoxville and opened in 2021, I think. Mm-hmm. So it's even newer. So exciting news this summer 2026 will be opening kind of the final phase of our campus here.
That's a big workforce development and ministry center. Right. So one of the things, you know, there's a huge need in Tennessee in particular for trades.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: All the welding, hvac, all that. And so we're trying to help steer guys in that direction. Some of our employment partners are in that world. And so, uh, helping guys just with a great career path.
And then the other piece is, right now we're doing classes and all that, and trailers, or in the homes mm-hmm. You know, of the men. And so this is gonna be a really cool worship space, an amphitheater. It's gonna be a place for guys to work out classrooms, you know, state of the art. We've got the Oculus systems that'll help them with the, with the trades.
Like, it, it's, it's amazing, Mike. I mean, we're, we're so fired up. This is [00:39:00] the housing needed to be the first piece, right? Because we needed a place for guys to come. Mm-hmm. But this will be a game changer for men of hours. So I'll say to anybody listening, if you're in Nashville ever and want to come tour or.
Valor Ridge then of valor, you'll, you'll be thrilled to meet some of our men and see what God's doing there. Mm-hmm. It's a great place. So that's the physical piece. I, I would say our goal spiritually is the multiplication process, the exponential discipleship piece of we want to disciple men in such a way.
That they can disciple others.
Mike Glenn: Someone else. How many mentors do you need? If I, if I could give you a magic wand and you could pop it, how many mentors could you engage with right now?
Curt Campbell: 170 a year. Roughly is what we need. Now some guys will circle back, right? Mm-hmm. After their guy graduates. Mm-hmm. I mean, they always stay in [00:40:00] touch, which is awesome, right?
But we're averaging between 170 200 men a year who come to our campuses and we wanna match every one of those guys with a mentor.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Now, if I wanna be a mentor, their training
Curt Campbell: Yes. Yep. We help equip, we've got, we've got ongoing monthly trainings, but we also have a very good process just kind of getting guys up to speed before we ever match them with a man.
Right. And it's a prayerful match, like we want it to be successful. Right. So we're not just drawing out buckets. Uh, we get to know the mentor, we get to know the mentees, and then we will figure out, okay, these guys would be a great fit.
Mike Glenn: Right. So you're looking for some kind of commonality.
Curt Campbell: Absolutely.
Mike Glenn: With that?
Curt Campbell: Yeah. Yep. So
Mike Glenn: tell me your favorite story.
Curt Campbell: Well, so, uh, there's a guy named Anthony Charles. Who I met, he was an inmate in 2008. Um, and just one of those [00:41:00] guys I loved off the rip. Mm-hmm. He, he was former military, disciplined to the core. He could do a program, he could memorize. He, he was a leader, you know, and I just thought, man, if God
Mike Glenn: ever gets hold of
Curt Campbell: this guy, if he gets a hold of this guy.
Yeah. It's gonna be awesome. So AC went through our program. I call him AC Anthony Charles. He went through our program, graduated, got out, I don't know how many months later, but it wasn't long. I saw him back and it wasn't a surprise because we were great friends when he left prison. Mm-hmm. But I didn't hear from him.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: He was gone, man. So he was back. He went through our program a second time in prison. Killed. It just did great. Right? Model student got out, came back. Same story. We were talking about recidivism earlier, right? This guy's a failure. Men of Allers failed [00:42:00] by the world standards. He went through our program the third time in prison, and God.
Did what he does changed his life. And today, Mike, he is our program director for the State of Tennessee. He's been on staff with us since, I think 2013. Mm-hmm. He's, he's the guy. He's it, and he went through our in prison program three times before God. Did what he did. You know, so that, isn't it the story of God, when we look at our own lives, he doesn't give up on us, man.
And we're gonna, we're gonna fall. We're gonna fall this week.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. We,
Curt Campbell: but God never gives up man. And so that's part of men of ours deal is we're gonna do for these men what God [00:43:00] has done for us. And again. The results aren't up to us.
Mike Glenn: Well, I have several friends as, as you know, who are, uh, really engaged on the Board of Men Valor, uh, mentors and men Valor and, and the, the, the, the stories they tell me
Curt Campbell: mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: About what's happened to them.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: How their life has changed because of what they're seeing God do, what they've seen in this man's life. And, and all of that is, is, is, is quite remarkable, uh, to do that. But again, this is one of the things that the church, we call it the Mother Teresa rule, go where nobody wants to go.
Do what nobody wants to do and the world will leave you alone. That and eventually give you a platform.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, you know, mother Theresa went to, uh, Mumbai, worked with dying lepers. Nobody wanted to do that. And she is the one who lectures President Bill [00:44:00] Clinton about abortion points her finger in his face.
You remember that? Oh, yeah. It was historic.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh. Points, her finger says, you must stop abortion. And everybody in America said, wow, you don't talk to the president like that. And everybody else said, she's Mother Theresa.
Curt Campbell: That's
Mike Glenn: something she, she knew what she wants to do.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So, uh, when the church understands that this redemption story is something that, that the gospel does better than anything.
The world is not in the redemptive, the world is in the canceling business. The, the what have you done for me lately? Business. Yeah. And, uh, how many follows? Yeah. And how many follow, you know, but, um, but, but the church, you know, one of my favorite sermons was preached by Bill Leonard at Southern Seminary, who was a church history professor.
It talks about growing up in Texas and going [00:45:00] to the rodeo in Fort Worth. And he said when a writer would fall, the only person in that arena who could help was the clown.
Curt Campbell: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: The rodeo clown.
Curt Campbell: Wow.
Mike Glenn: And that. The world dismisses us as clowns until somebody falls,
Curt Campbell: man, that's
Mike Glenn: good. And we're the only ones that can help 'em.
Now we're talking about guys who were incarcerated, who were in prison or just coming out of prison. Uh, but we know about the crisis of young men and, and our culture. Yeah. You know, you and I know you don't have to be in prison. Be locked up. Yeah. So what, what would you say to the, to the young man who.
Can't figure out who he is. Can't figure out why he's here or what he's
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Supposed to do,
Curt Campbell: man. Yeah. And then you say young man, but we both know, boy, that can happen in any season. [00:46:00] Season of life. Oh, in, yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: Our breakfast this year, uh, in March. We talked about the light of the world.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And that Jesus said, I'm the light of the world.
And then said to us, you are the light of the world. Mm-hmm. And so we contrasted darkness and light.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And just acknowledged like we had 2000 people there and just acknowledged how many people in that room, everybody at some point in their life has experienced. Darkness.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And that comes in a lot of different forms.
Mm-hmm. Right? Divorce, addiction, uh, mental health issues. Mm-hmm. Anxiety, whatever. Job loss. And it's real. And Jesus was very clear that in this world you will have trouble. Mm-hmm. But take heart, I have overcome the world. And so for anybody prison or non prison who is struggling with life, it is not meant to [00:47:00] be lived alone.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And your, whatever it is you're dealing with is not solely unique to you.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. And
Curt Campbell: so you mentioned earlier. Grabbing a hold of a mentor, an older man. Right. For a woman. An older woman mm-hmm. Who you respect, who you would like to be like, and just pulling up with them and getting honest. Mm-hmm.
And just saying, man, it's hard for me to say this, but I'm having, I'm having suicidal thoughts. Mm-hmm. Or, uh, I am really struggling with addiction, you know? Mm-hmm. My wife doesn't know it, but pornography, whatever. It's Right,
Mike Glenn: right.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. And just be honest. Acknowledge the darkness.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: So that the light invaded.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, because the, the, the, the part of the power of that darkness is secrecy.
Curt Campbell: Oh, totally.
Mike Glenn: If anybody knows, you'll be destroyed. If
Curt Campbell: anybody. That's right. So if you're in darkness, yeah. I just wanna say it. If you're in darkness. Pursue the light and do it through other people.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: And honesty coming at it, [00:48:00] coming out a secret.
Mike Glenn: Go going with that.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Um, I was, uh, I was very fortunate and, uh, you've, you've heard me tell stories about my dad and everything, uh, and. But, but he made sure that we thought the Glen name meant something, even though we found out later, just, you know, we were just part of the, the migrant culture that, that that immigrants who came over and, and found a farm in Mississippi.
Um, how does working with Meina Valor help folks understand that they have a name?
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And they're part of, they're part of this family.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. Well, you talked about just standing a little more upright Yeah. 'cause of who you knew, where you came from.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: And when I am fully convinced, even in my shame, that I deal with on a regular basis, when I am fully convinced that I'm created in the [00:49:00] image of God, that I'm his child.
Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: That does make me hold my head up and pull my shoulders back because even on my worst days, I am a child of the king. Mm-hmm. And that is amazing.
Mike Glenn: We're in an interesting place. The first reformation gave the Bible back to the people. The second reformation is giving ministry back to the people.
Hmm. Okay. And that, um. Uh, because of a lot of different things, people are looking around going, where can I help? What can I do?
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, and the church is one of the things that, uh, uh, or the church in prison ministry is one of the things that Jesus mentioned in Matthew 25. Yeah. I was in prison.
Curt Campbell: That's right.
Mike Glenn: And you came to see me.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and, and when we do it, we do it better. Than just about anybody. For
Curt Campbell: sure. For sure.
Mike Glenn: Uh, for, uh, for that. Uh, so the reason we [00:50:00] celebrate Men of Valor is we see it doing, giving men, we're talking about Men of Valor. It's giving men opportunities to serve their local communities and be part of the Kingdom redemption work.
Curt Campbell: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Right here in their own homes.
Curt Campbell: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: You know, the, the, the biggest mission field
Curt Campbell: That's right
Mike Glenn: is, is right here in Middle Tennessee. Yeah. And is as close as the nearest prison or jail.
Curt Campbell: That's right.
Mike Glenn: Uh, of people who need to be discipled in the best sense, in the fullest sense of that word.
Curt Campbell: Oh man.
Yeah, there are, there's 40,000 people incarcerated in Tennessee and probably, you know,
Mike Glenn: now, 15,
Curt Campbell: 20 of those right here in Middle Tennessee.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. There's 40,000 men.
Curt Campbell: Men and women.
Mike Glenn: Men and
Curt Campbell: women, yeah. Prisons and jails. Yeah. By the way, we're, we work with men, but men, the need for women's prison ministry. Same.
Same If women are listening, um. [00:51:00] Yeah, but I, I've said for a long time, and it may be because of what I've seen God doing in prisons, but I just always said it would, it would be just like God mm-hmm. To lead a revival in the United States. Through the prison system.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Through the prison,
Curt Campbell: wouldn't it? The most unlikely candidates.
And that biblically that's what, well,
Mike Glenn: not only that, but the point, the, the point of American life that we're most ashamed of.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Because we incarcerate so many people.
Curt Campbell: Oh yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, you've spoken some for yourselves, I can't speak for you, but people look at us, we have a relationship with the Lord.
We're in ministry. Yeah. And they think, well, yeah, that, that's how you grew up. I mean, you know, no brainer.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: But when these guys tell their stories and you realize there was. Only one hope.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Curt Campbell: There was only one hope for you bro.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And praise [00:52:00] God, he stepped into your life. Yes, sir. That's right.
Because you're a miracle. I, I say that all the time. The fact that any of the men we work with make it mm-hmm. Is a miracle. It really is. But it's happening all the time.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: God is just what God does. Mm-hmm. He's an overcomer of the odds every time. He loves the, he loves terrible odds, doesn't he? Yeah.
And so I just think when you talk about reformation, as we see more and more, it's like, it's like when a crazy revival happens, right? In a Muslim or a Hindu. Mm-hmm. You're like, only God could do that. Because he's not welcome there and it's the same thing. Mm-hmm. In the prison systems, man. And God is doing what only he can do, but he uses people to do it right.
Mike Glenn: All with that. So how do I find out more about Minval?
Curt Campbell: Yeah, so our website's pretty thorough. We upgraded it. So [00:53:00] MOV Minval I Ministry, the
Mike Glenn: the
Curt Campbell: first
Mike Glenn: Minval website you do, and how excited everybody was. I know
Curt Campbell: we
got
Curt Campbell: a website. Yeah. MOV ministry.com is a great way to learn more. And I'll make this invitation too.
There's nothing like experiencing it.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: So again, for people who live in Middle Tennessee. If you will, reach out to us and just say, Hey, I'd love to tour the campus sometime. Yeah. I'd love to sit in on a class with some of the guys. We'd love that.
Mm-hmm.
Curt Campbell: And just to get your feet wet. You know, um, it's a little harder to get people into prison, but, but we, if somebody felt like, I really feel like God's calling me to prison ministry.
Mm-hmm. You get in touch with us, we'll make it happen.
Okay.
Mike Glenn: Can that,
Curt Campbell: my personal email is Kurt, curt@movministry.com.
Mike Glenn: All right. We'll put that in the minute, in the notes for
Curt Campbell: Yeah. People can reach out
Mike Glenn: to me. You, you, you'll be able to do that for sure. Now, I do want to give our friends a warning. If they go to Meno [00:54:00] Valor, they're gonna end up.
Strong, doing something strong with men valor.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So it, the, the story is that compelling and the work, the work is that, uh, transformative and, and exciting.
Curt Campbell: Yeah. Thank you
Mike Glenn: man. Kurt, you have honored us by being here today and celebrating the work Men Valor. Thank
Curt Campbell: you. You
Mike Glenn: pray for your ever success. Great
Curt Campbell: partner for years and years.
It's what propels us to keep doing
Mike Glenn: what we, well, you know, I, I went to lunch with Carl.
Curt Campbell: You don't
Mike Glenn: say no to Carl.
Curt Campbell: No.
Mike Glenn: That was, well, you might, but you're gonna have to say no a thousand times. That's true. Because he might as well go ahead and say yes and get, get it over with.
Curt Campbell: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: He was, he was a great guy.
We, we, we continued to miss him, but, uh, amen.
Curt Campbell: I quote him every week.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. So, great guy. Well, thank you Kurt. Thanks for being here.
Curt Campbell: You bet. Thanks.
