Faith in the Public Square: Should Christians Stay Out of Politics? | feat. Brent Leatherwood
In this episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast, Mike Glenn sits down with Brent Leatherwood, President of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC) of the Southern Baptist Convention. Together, they dive into the challenging question, “Should Christians stay out of politics?” Brent shares his personal journey in political engagement, discussing how his faith guides his work and why he believes Christians have a responsibility to be involved in the political process. Tune in to hear their thoughtful conversation on balancing faith and politics, and how we can honor Christ while serving our communities.
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Mike Glenn: Hi, I'm Mike Glenn, and I'm the president of the Engaged Church Network, and we are grateful that you've joined us on today's podcast. Today, joining me is Brent Leatherwood, who is the president of the ERLC, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is the public, um, policy, political, uh, engagement, uh, arm of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Now, in full disclosure, uh, Brent and I go way back. I mean way back. Um, I remember when he and his wife Meredith were dating. In fact, I was leading a ministry called Kairos, and, uh, Meredith was one of the leaders of that ministry, and, uh, Meredith is a very beautiful blonde lady and, uh, girl to me. I mean no disrespect- Right
in any of that, but she's, she is young enough to be my daughter. [00:01:00] And so we were all watching to see who, uh, who Meredith would take home from the prom, and lo and behold, uh, you were Prince Charming, huh? That's right. And, uh, and now, h- tell me, make me feel old. I still claim that. Uh, that's right. I would. I would.
Um, how long have you guys been married now? Make me feel old.
Brent Leatherwood: Uh, 13 years.
Mike Glenn: Oh, gosh. I feel old.
Brent Leatherwood: Yeah. Coming up on 13. Three,
Mike Glenn: three beautiful children.
Brent Leatherwood: Three children. Uh, a sixth grader, a fourth grader, and a second grader. And, uh, and yeah, it all started, uh, on those, uh, Tuesday nights- Oh ... learning about little dude-
and, and what little dude was gonna do on the whiteboard- ... at, at Kairos. Folks may not know that that was one of your go-to illustrations. Yeah, had little dude. Uh.
Mike Glenn: Had little dude was hanging.
Brent Leatherwood: Yeah. Yeah, little dude was always getting into some- Yeah ... you know, trouble and, uh, and just, uh, really needed the gospel to help him get out of it.
That's right. And so...
Mike Glenn: Oh, man. Now, you have, um- You [00:02:00] have been engaged in the political process for some time now.
Brent Leatherwood: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Mike Glenn: Okay. So the first question would be, uh, there are a lot of people who would say you cannot be a Christian in the political sphere at all. Mm. So one, what led you, uh, to this? Uh, I, I'm assuming that you are a, a, a, a, a Christ follower, and that- Yeah
this has been some, uh, aspect of His will for your life- Mm-hmm ... uh, has been to be engaged in this part of our culture. That many of, of my friends would say you cannot be involved in at all because it's too corrupt, too nasty. Uh, a- and but the opposite is we need good people in the process- Right. Yeah ... uh, to, to, to make these kind of decisions for us.
So how would you respond to, uh, to, to that question?
Brent Leatherwood: Well, sure. First, I would say yes, uh, let me confirm I am a Christ follower. Uh, in many ways you're a spiritual grandfather.
Mike Glenn: Ah.
Brent Leatherwood: Uh, because, [00:03:00] uh, uh, I gave a public profession of my faith because of Aaron Bryant- Mm-hmm ... who for years- Right. Yeah ... has been under your tutelage.
Yeah. Uh, and, and Aaron is now my pastor, uh, at the Church of New South. At New South.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Brent Leatherwood: And, uh, Aaron actually was the one that baptized me in the Harpeth River. Um-
Mike Glenn: Oh, you were one of those celebrations,
Brent Leatherwood: huh? One of those. Oh, man. Yes. And so, um, so yes, I am a Christ follower. And, uh, and, uh, in many ways, thanks, uh, to, to you and the years of, uh, incredible spiritual guidance that you provided at Brentwood Baptist and through programs like, uh, Kairos.
So, uh, so yes. And, um, yes, I've, I've been a part and engaged in the political arena, gosh, now for, um, over 20 years- Mm ... uh, since, um, since really the first campaign that I got on, uh, in, uh, 2003, uh, down in Florida. It was a US Senate campaign. And, [00:04:00] and from there, worked my way up to Capitol Hill, uh, in Congress.
Um, moved back home to, uh, Tennessee, ran, uh, campaigns for the US House, then worked for the Speaker of the House and the Republican majority in the Tennessee legislature, and then ran the Tennessee Republican Party for four years. And now I'm a, I'm a, I'm a step removed from that kind of day-to-day political, uh, activity.
And policy activity, uh, like policy conceptualizing and implementation, uh, and, and now work at, as you said, the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention. And, um, to get to, you know, your, your basic question, should Christians be involved in, in politics, um, I guess I would, I would... Uh, to someone who asked me that, I would ask, "Well, can Christians be involved in medicine?
Can they be involved in home building? Can they be involved in, in [00:05:00] really any aspect of life where, uh, ethical questions are asked of you and, uh, trying to accomplish, uh, the, the common good for your neighbor, uh, is, is relevant?" And I would say that that's relevant in nearly any sector. Um, I think it's actually, uh, I think an argument can be made that it's all the more important for Christians, uh, to be engaged in politics and, and policy making only because it, it does have the ability to affect, uh, uh, a huge amount of people if you're talking at a, a national level, um, or even down to your local level, or even in your school board or your city council.
And, uh, the reason that I think it's, uh, needed is because we, we need in a, um, a dys- a largely dysfunctional culture like the one we live in right now, we need people that, um, don't see [00:06:00] themselves as the solution for everything, uh, but are moored and anchored into something that's bigger than themselves.
And, um, I think, I think when you are thinking through a grid of, how do I serve my neighbor, uh, how do I make my community a little bit better for my neighbor, and, and, and really following, you know, Jesus's command to, you know, uh, to really the, the full maximal kind of thinking behind it, how am I improving life for even my neighbor that I don't see?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Brent Leatherwood: Um, that, that I would submit leads to better outcomes than those who are motivated by all sorts of other things. So, so
Mike Glenn: you see your political involvement as an outgrowth, uh, or a logical consequence of Jesus's command to love your neighbor.
Brent Leatherwood: Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. I, I see it, I, I see it as one area where, where that can be played out.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Brent Leatherwood: But that... The, the same [00:07:00] applies to a school teacher.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Brent Leatherwood: The same, uh, applies to, uh, a ministry leader, right? I mean, I, I think w- we get into trouble- In our modern moment by trying to compartmentalize the gospel away from our politics, I think.
Mike Glenn: Ah, okay.
Brent Leatherwood: Um-
Mike Glenn: Expand that a little bit.
Brent Leatherwood: Well, I, there's, there's, uh, there's a number of people who I think, when I've talked to them, it, it's kind of revealed that they think that the world of politics
Because look, it, it can be, um- It can be challenging, and it can ... You, you're dealing with people, as I just said, that, that are operating under principles that are different than our own- Mm-hmm ... as Christ followers.
Mike Glenn: But that would ... And to your point, that would be the same in the music field. Right. That'd be the same in corporate life.
Yes,
Brent Leatherwood: exactly. That'd be- It's just, I think, in, in, in the political arena, because it's very visible-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
Brent Leatherwood: uh, and it, it's covered nonstop in our over, you know, [00:08:00] politicized moment, um, it just feels more grimy, if you will. Right. Um, but, uh, w- we, we need to be engaged in it, and, uh, we need to, as we engage, just be asking ourself the question that, that we need to at all times.
Uh, am, am I glorifying the Lord in what I am doing?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Brent Leatherwood: Am, am I, am I actually being, uh, an ambassador for the kingdom, uh, like I should be doing anywhere else? And so that's, that's, that's how I view my own life- Mm-hmm ... uh, in, in the political and policy arena.
Mike Glenn: Well, you know, we would, we would do well to remember that a lot of the biblical heroes that we celebrate were involved in politics.
Brent Leatherwood: Yeah, yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know, Jacob, Daniel, Nebuchadnezzar. I mean, not Nebuchadnezzar. Nehemiah.
Brent Leatherwood: Right.
Mike Glenn: Um-
Brent Leatherwood: Absolutely.
Mike Glenn: You know- Yeah ... all of those were, were, were political leader. Yep. Moses was probably the greatest political leader of all.
Brent Leatherwood: Yep. No, I ... And, you know, I just ... So I trail- I trailed off from your ... I, I just trailed off [00:09:00] from your, your question about compartmentalizing the gospel.
So, so many people- Mm ... they think that they have to operate through political decisions- Mm-hmm ... that are made, through political calculations that are made, with some sort of, of different, uh, uh- Yeah ... distinctives and, and different principles. Jesus is
Mike Glenn: Lord on Sunday, but on Monday there's a- Bingo ...
Brent Leatherwood: there's a different king in the temple.
Right. And you see it- Right ... y- I mean, you're a pastor, so you've seen- Yeah ... this play out in other areas of life. Mm-hmm. But I see it especially in politics. And they think, "Well, man, Jesus is just calling me to things that are untenable over here in the world of politics." Mm-hmm. And I just refuse to accept that premise.
Um, and so I, I think we need to be showing the world that you can operate successfully in the world of politics and policymaking by following Jesus. Mm-hmm. Now, that doesn't mean that you're gonna win all the time in- Right ... politics. That, that's not promised to us at all in, in any- Mm-hmm ... uh, aspect. But, uh, if, if winning is showing grace and revealing truth, well, [00:10:00] then, then you're winning in the audience- Right
in the eyes of the audience of, of the one- Who matters, right ... that we need to be serving. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and that's what matters.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Okay. We're, we're obviously in a presidential election year.
Brent Leatherwood: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And, uh, we've got, uh, as we record this, we're about a month out- Yep ... or so. Uh, there- Less than 30
Brent Leatherwood: days
Mike Glenn: now
there's a lot of pressure on local pastors to endorse a candidate, uh, to preach politically-
Brent Leatherwood: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: uh, and, and all of that. How would you help us guide local pastors through this swamp?
Brent Leatherwood: Yeah, yeah.
Mike Glenn: Sure. Because, uh, let's face it, i- if you- Pun intended ... if you're too, um, uh, i- if you're seen as being supportive of this candidate or that candidate, you, uh...
Things are so divided right now, that when you do that, you lose half your congregation.
Brent Leatherwood: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, yeah, and, and, you know, uh, uh, we're, we're that split now.
Brent Leatherwood: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So, uh, and, and a lot of my friends are wrestling with this right [00:11:00] now. So how would you- Right ... help us walk through this?
Brent Leatherwood: Yeah. So, uh, I'd probably say, uh, a couple of things.
And I would say at the outset, o- one big caveat. You as a pastor, you, you are the best judge of what your congregation can handle. Mm-hmm. And, and lean into that, trust that. Uh, don't feel this pressure from outside voices, from voices on social media. As a matter of fact, please in this season, just turn social media off.
Uh, be what your people need you to be in this moment. And, and, and so I would always wanna defer to the local pastor about what he thinks, uh, his, his church can handle. Now, that said, um, if I'm just kind of broadly offering advice, I would say lean into the moment, uh, and, and reveal for your people that your church and your ministry as a pastor, it's a place where they can come with questions.
Mm-hmm. And it's a place where they can come [00:12:00] and, and understand that the gospel has a lot of relevance for the moment. Right. And, and so don't shy away from that. Uh, because i- if you do that, even though the intentions may be good, your people, as they have questions, if they feel like they can't come to church and, and talk about it within their small group, their life group- Yeah, right, right
if they can approach their pastor with a question, they're gonna get those answers somewhere else. They're gonna go somewhere. That's right. And, and heaven help us with some of the things- That's right ... that we are seeing out there if that is what is filling that void. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: We dealt with a lot of that when our people would get their med- med school degree from Dr.
Google.
Brent Leatherwood: R- right. Exactly. Exactly.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Brent Leatherwood: So, so be a place where people can come and, and, and honestly and transparently ask the question, "Hey, Pastor, I, I saw- Mm-hmm ... that this candidate talking about this. I don't... I'm kind of bumping up against it. What, what do you think? Does the, does the Bible have anything to say about this?"
Mm-hmm. And, and be open to that, and give them feedback. And, and someti- give them feedback even if you know it's going [00:13:00] to challenge some of their assumptions. Yeah. Some of their, some of their thinking. That's okay.
Mike Glenn: Is there a, um- Is there a, a Christian, um guide that would lead us to how we vote for this candidate or that candidate?
Uh, are there issues that would weigh more than other... Now, I mean, a l- a lot of our friends are very con- w- would say, "Hey, the right to life-
Brent Leatherwood: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: is an issue that trumps all others."
Brent Leatherwood: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: So I'm gonna, I'm gonna vote for the candidate who supports right to life, regardless of tax policy or foreign affairs- Yeah
or anything like that.
Brent Leatherwood: Yeah. Well, I, Christians are to be about, uh, truth and, and, and justice and, and manifesting God's grace, right? And, and I think, uh, that is what you should be after. If you're after something else, that probably needs to be, like, a spiritual, like, caution flag. Like, okay, maybe, maybe I'm, I'm, I'm prioritizing something else.[00:14:00]
And, um, and, and in the moment that we're in right now, uh, our, our political parties and political operatives, and don't miss this, people who are actually, uh, uh, gaining financially from politics- Right ... they, they want to force politics into your life in such a way that it becomes an idol. Right. And far too many Christians are actually allowing it to become an idol.
Yeah, good
Mike Glenn: point.
Brent Leatherwood: Good point. And, and that controls their thinking and how they're processing the election. And again, it gets back to what I said before, they're starting to compartmentalize. Well, this, man, I, I love the Lord. This
Mike Glenn: is real world. This is real world.
Brent Leatherwood: Bingo. Yeah,
Mike Glenn: that's right, yeah.
Brent Leatherwood: And, and so, um, so make sure that you're, you're going about the right things.
As far as issues, I mean, look, uh, we serve our Southern Baptist churches, and we have, at the ERLC, a very specific ministry assignment, generally falls into four buckets, right? Life, religious liberty, marriage and family- Mm-hmm ... and human dignity. [00:15:00] Um, there's, there's a lot of meat there, but at the same time, we don't end up talking about, you know, marginal tax rates- Right, right, right
or school vouchers. Those are important things- Mm-hmm ... and I would leave it to individuals to weigh how important it, that it is for their own context. At the same time, as you're thinking through, uh, the election, e- everybody wants this kind of... Everybody, it seems, when they're coming with a lot of questions to us, they're, they're see- they're, they're s- they're wanting and seeking almost a simplistic formula-
Mike Glenn: Right
Brent Leatherwood: that they could just put into place for this election- Right, like a plug-in ... and say, "Okay, that leads me here."
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Brent Leatherwood: And it's like, man, it's, it's not like that. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, so many voices are out there, like, "Oh, it's, it's either this or that, and there's nothing else." Right. And, um, and, and to those, to those voices, um, that, that are trying to oversimplify, uh, what is a very complex, uh, political environment [00:16:00] and political decision-making environment for people, I, I would wanna ask, w- so what do you do with that Christian...
So w- we'll, uh, we'll make it more explicit. They try to say, "You have to vote for one party if you're a Christian." Mm-hmm. "You can't vote for another party." Right. So let's apply that into a very re- real-world situation such as local elections in San Francisco. Okay? Uh, you only have an option between, in that example, two Democrats.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Brent Leatherwood: Does that mean that a Christian who participates in that election is somehow not a Christian when that's the only choice before them? Yeah, they only obviously
Mike Glenn: have, right.
Brent Leatherwood: Um, or, uh, go back out from a local context to a national context. You may have Christians that are saying, "Man, I, I just, I, I, I feel uncomfortable with, uh, my two major candidates for US Senate right now."
Mm-hmm. "And I just, I just don't feel clarity on which one to vote for, so I think on, on this election I, I might, I, I might, I might skip this, this choice on the ballot." I- Does- is that [00:17:00] person somehow less of a Christian? I don't think so.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Uh- If they choose none of the above
Brent Leatherwood: Right. So, so let's reject that, that, that type of, of kind of template, uh, thinking where you could just put some sort of artificial, um, you know- Mm-hmm
structure over this and it leads you to X, because again, a lot of those people, they're either working in politics or they're, they're, they're doing the bidding of political operatives, or they're actually gaining financially.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Brent Leatherwood: And, and so, uh, we should- Follow the
Mike Glenn: money ...
Brent Leatherwood: yeah, we should resist that.
Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. And, um, and there's gonna be lots of good Christians that land in different areas, particularly in an election like this, and, and that, that gets probably to my final point. Um, because we over-nationalize, uh, everything right now- Mm-hmm ... uh, everything is about what's coming out of Washington or what's going on in Washington.
And I just would like to remind people, man, you look down further on that ballot, you've got really consequential [00:18:00] choices before you about things like mayor or, uh, county commission-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
Brent Leatherwood: or state and legislator.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, the people who make the decisions that we actually live with.
Brent Leatherwood: Bingo.
Mike Glenn: School board.
Brent Leatherwood: Yes.
City
Mike Glenn: council.
Brent Leatherwood: Right.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Brent Leatherwood: And those decisions- Yeah ... more than likely will affect your life far more- Yeah ... than anything that's coming out of Congress. Yeah, right. Which I got news for you, there's not much coming out of Congress these days. Yeah. Uh, th- this Congress may end up, um... And it's, it's more of, it's evidence of, of just how closely divided it is.
In the gridlock. But this Congress- Yeah ... may, may end up coming out with less significant legislation than, than any Congress in history.
Mike Glenn: History. Ooh.
Brent Leatherwood: And, and so, um, so just because
Mike Glenn: of- And, and that's not necessarily bad news.
Brent Leatherwood: No, no, it's not. Right. Yeah. But, yeah. I would push back on those who say, "Oh, well, you know, that, that's bad."
I, I don't know that you necessarily characterize- Yeah ... more policy as being equating to good policy. Right. That, that I, I would, I would push back on that. But what it does mean, it has the practical effect of, of making the decis- or of the decisions that are made at the local level that are closer [00:19:00] to you- Mm-hmm
probably more impactful than you realize. So take the time to get educated about those lower level offices. Yeah. Right, right. We, we all know what's going on at the presidential level and, and the choices there. Get down to your local level and get educated about those- Yeah ... 'cause that guy's running for mayor, you know, he may not have your best interest at heart.
That's right. Or, or she may want something that you don't agree with- Mm-hmm ... or, you know, whatever.
Mike Glenn: Or put something in the school system that's-
Brent Leatherwood: Exactly ...
Mike Glenn: not helpful. So- Yeah ... so
Brent Leatherwood: yeah.
Mike Glenn: Excellent. Excellent. Now, a- as we come to the, uh, wrap up our time, I, um, I want to spend a few minutes talking with you about, uh, if, if not the worst day of your life.
Brent Leatherwood: It was
Mike Glenn: the worst. Well, yeah. It was the worst. It's, just can't imagine. Worst day of my life. And, and again, this is- Yeah ... this goes back to how long Brett and I have, have been together. Um, uh, your children were at Covenant-
Brent Leatherwood: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: when the shooting happened. Mm-hmm.
Brent Leatherwood: And,
Mike Glenn: uh, and we were involved in, in walking through that together.
So, uh, you, you... we've had a [00:20:00] little space. Uh, what, what have you thought? What have you... What do you now know that- You thought you knew, but now you know. Those-
Brent Leatherwood: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. What, what, what kind of thoughts have you had since then?
Brent Leatherwood: Yeah. Um, so I, I would definitely not equate my life, 'cause my life has been, uh, incredibly privileged after that time, um, especially compared to our, our six families that- Right
that lost someone that day.
Mike Glenn: Your children were friends with some-
Brent Leatherwood: Oh, yeah ...
Mike Glenn: who, who died.
Brent Leatherwood: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: But, but yeah.
Brent Leatherwood: And, and, and- Yeah ... Meredith and I were friends with- With parents ... with them too. Yeah. Yeah, so, um, uh, so yeah, I mean, j- just, just so, uh, your audience understands, I'll get back to your question, right? You-- To understand the Covenant School here in Nashville, uh, it is a very small- Mm-hmm
uh, uh, Christian school, uh, that is a ministry of a church, [00:21:00] um, that has, you know, uh, just a very small footprint in the middle of Green Hills, Tennessee, which is a, you know, kinda suburban area, uh, really well-to-do. Um, but there were people that, before March 27th, who lived in Green Hills and didn't even know-
that Covenant School was in Green Hills. That's right. Yeah. That, that's how small it was. Um, and, um, and so for this evil of a mass shooter, uh, to make her way into the school, uh, and, and take the, the lives of six innocent people, uh, three teachers, administrators and, and three children, um, is, is just, it's horrific.
Uh, you know, we, we probably should stop saying that it's unimaginable that a school shooting could happen given how prevalent they are in our, our diseased society right now. Um, but i- if there was ever a candidate for a school that [00:22:00] you just-- It, it would be hard to think that this would be on the list of schools where this kind of atrocity could be, uh, perpetrated, Covenant School would be up there.
Mm-hmm. Um, and, um, and so yeah, I mean, I could say without a doubt, worst day of my life. Um, and nothing else comes close. Um- And, um, um, it was a, it was a difficult situation to live through, and even, I mean, to this day, I'm, I'm still processing it. I wouldn't equate my life to what Job went through, but I certainly am, am asking, I think, questions that are at least in the same family of his questions.
Like, gosh, Lord, what, w-what is it about that moment that you're leading me through and teaching me and, and want me to do as a person that [00:23:00] wants to, um, submit to your will and be obedient to your calling? Uh, w-w-what is it that, how is it that I can utilize this, not be defined by it- Mm-hmm ... but instead say, "Okay, this is, this is now gonna be a part of our story.
This is gonna be a part of my children's story. Um, and, and, and, and what is it that we can do that ultimately points people back to you, uh, from that?" And, um, and so, um, you know, I, I, I don't, I don't wanna, uh, anger the Lord and, and get some- Right, right. ... kind of response like he gave Job. Like, "Let me show you."
That's right. "Let me just show you all that I am responsible-" Yeah ... "for as I- Yeah ... as I bring all of this together." Um, um, but at the, at the same time, I, I'm, I'm still in that place in many ways. Mm-hmm. I, I honestly, I don't know because, because I am so insignificant, um, and [00:24:00] I'm not worthy. Um, I don't know that I'm gonna get answers this side of glory.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Brent Leatherwood: And I have to be okay with that, uh, because his ways are not my ways. Um, but I have to trust that his glory will be manifested through that. And, uh, in some ways, uh, I don't know that, that publicly, um, everyone can, can see that. But i-in a day-to-day, uh, sense, uh, living within that community of people, uh, whose families went through that, um, seeing the ways that, uh, the community has, has sought to, to serve those six families- Mm-hmm
um, and, and even to an extent, uh, the family of the shooter, uh, I think has been revelatory, if you will, um, a-a-about the Lord and, and how he [00:25:00] wants us to conduct ourselves. And, um- And yeah, so I, I think, uh, our three kids are, are, who all survived that day, um, you know, they had, they had different experiences, um, in, in terms of how close they were.
Um, but our, one of our daughters was very, very close to just pure evil. Um, and, and, and, uh, i- if, if things had, by mere moments, uh, gone in a, a different way, she would've been out in that hallway with that shooter.
Mike Glenn: Whoa. Mm. Mm.
Brent Leatherwood: Um, and, um, and so, uh, kn- knowing the depth of the evil that was stalking the hallways that day, [00:26:00] and knowing that this was a person, um, the shooter, um, who was deeply disturbed Um, and had all sorts of rambling, uh, thoughts that she, you know, scrolled out over years.
Uh, uh, that's why, you know, the, the, the parents have, uh, banded together to, to try and keep that stuff-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Brent Leatherwood: from getting out into the public. And I think most- Mm-hmm ... people are like, "Oh, no, but I, I wanna see it." I- people who say that, I, I can understand it in the way that, I guess, you know, you, you go by a car accident, you kinda rubberneck.
I, I get it at that level. But I think the depth of the evil that is expressed in those writings, and the fact that there, you know, scientific research shows that there is a copycat phenomena that [00:27:00] happens-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Brent Leatherwood: Mm-hmm ... out of these events. And I mean, look, y- you don't have to look any further than the- Right
weeks after our shooting. Uh, a few folks may not recall, but there was just a few weeks after our shooting on March 27th, uh, 2023, uh, there was a horrific shooting in Allen, Texas, uh, just outside of, of Dallas.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Brent Leatherwood: Um, and the shooter there, uh, talked about our shooter, um, and, and said that he couldn't believe it was a female that killed six people at a school.
And so he wanted to go to this local shopping mall and take out more people. He was-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ...
Brent Leatherwood: he was proud of her, but he wanted to outdo her. And, uh, and then not too long after that, uh, a person was arrested up in, uh, Illinois, I think by the FBI, uh, who was [00:28:00] obsessed with our shooter and wanted to, to do his own shooting.
Uh, and so I think part of what the families from March 27th have wanted to do is try as much as we can s- to stop that evil-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Brent Leatherwood: from-
Mike Glenn: To break the cycle. Yeah.
Brent Leatherwood: Yeah. Just to, just to try. Mm-hmm. And, and again, we g- we got, we got so many issues with mental health and, and, and people who are going through a crisis.
Their, their easy access to weapons- Mm-hmm ... to just play out their worst possible deadly fantasies. Mm-hmm. Um, um, but our families have just said, "We have lived through a nightmare." And, and no- And no one else
Mike Glenn: should have to do this ...
Brent Leatherwood: no other local school- Right ... no other local church-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Brent Leatherwood: no other community either here or, [00:29:00] or out there.
Because of, you know, the way the internet works, uh, this stuff can, this stuff can tip someone who is dealing with a crisis into active- Action ... and action. And, and, and, and so, um, we've just tried to say, "Let it stop here with us." Yeah. And I, I don't know that we will be successful, but I do know that that is, I do think that is something that the Lord has put on the hearts of so many of our families.
Yeah. Uh, because i- in, in the, in the weeks after, when we were, we were just going before the Lord with all kinds of questions and, and just trying to pick up the pieces and trying to, trying to figure out how, how do you, how do you serve- Mm-hmm ... a family that's lost a child? How do you serve a family that's lost a spouse, um, and a father?
And, uh, you know, just how, how do you, how do you do this? Um, we all came together relatively quickly to say, "Okay, well, if, if, if we can, if we can be active in some ways, [00:30:00] um, legally or on a policy level, we, we wanna do that." Mm-hmm. And, um, and it's all because we, we just wanna, we just wanna- Yeah ... stop evil.
Mike Glenn: And that may be a good way for us to end today.
Well, I mean, we do live in very difficult and sometimes dark times, and the worst thing that could happen is for good people to do nothing. We are called to be salt and light, and salt doesn't do much good if it stays in the shaker. I'm Mike Glenn. I'm the president of the Engage Church Network. This is Brent Leatherwood.
He is the president of the ERLC, the political, uh, action arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, and we are delighted you joined us today.
