Why YouTube Pastors Can’t Be Your Pastor | Nate Sala
Nate Sala, founder of the Wise Disciple YouTube channel, joins Mike Glenn to discuss vision, calling, and what real discipleship looks like. They explore why consistent, in-person discipleship matters more than a once-a-week class, and why online teachers, Nate included, can’t replace a local pastor.
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Mike Glenn: [00:00:00] Today we welcome Nate Sala, uh, to our podcast. Thanks for being here today, Nate.
Nate Sala: Pastor Mike, thank you.
Mike Glenn: Now- It's a pleasure ... you, you run an, an organization, a ministry called The Wise Disciple.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: So tell me about that.
Nate Sala: So Wise Disciple is... Well, now it's two YouTube channels. Uh, so it's Wise Disciple, the second one is called Every Word, and mainly what I do there is I look at culture, I try to use discernment to understand the ti- the times that we live in.
Uh, I also do a lot of Bible teaching. So I started the channel differently, uh, and I've pivoted several times to land where I am now. Mm-hmm. But it's out of a concern that I have. So now it's, it's a lot of deep Bible study, um, on both channels. And, uh, and then there's also a Patreon community there. Um, and then there's a, a debate masterclass.
So it's kind of spread out.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Combined, it's about a half a million people.
Mike Glenn: Well done.
Nate Sala: So I'm [00:01:00] boasting in the Lord. Yeah,
Mike Glenn: well done.
Nate Sala: I'm not that clever.
Mike Glenn: Okay. So y- one of, one of the interesting points that you make that I think is critical is how important it is for a disciple to have a vision.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Now- Whenever we use the V word, vision word, it's a leader has the vision, a pastor has the vision. But you're saying every believer has that vision-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: of how their, of how their life- They should ... is to be. Okay.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Talk to me about that.
Nate Sala: So vision is, in my mind, the way it is sort of articulated is two things really.
It's identity and purpose.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: You have to understand who you are in Christ.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, what I, what I call the IP address.
Nate Sala: Okay, yeah.
Mike Glenn: Everybody has to have their ID, everybody has to have their purpose.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right. And then, yeah, what are you here to do?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: God has obviously called you, uh, to be safe, praise the Lord, but he also gives you assignments- Mm-hmm
in certain seasons to accomplish. If you understand these things, [00:02:00] you have vision to some degree. Now, do we fully understand it 100%? Never. I almost never feel like I've fully arrived anywhere.
Mike Glenn: You would never do it if he gave it to you.
Nate Sala: Oh, yeah.
Mike Glenn: If, if he laid out-
Nate Sala: That's
Mike Glenn: right ... "Here's, here's where you're gonna end up."
Yeah. Oh, I can't do that. I wouldn't... But you can do the next step-
Nate Sala: That's right ...
Mike Glenn: that leads you on the big journey.
Nate Sala: Right. And this is biblical. Yes. So if you go to Genesis chapter one, where it all started-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Nate Sala: God creates, verse 26, mankind. He creates them male and female, and he makes them in his image.
But then very, uh, soon after that, he gives them purpose.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Have dominion over the, over the whole earth, essentially. And so that's what I mean. You, it's almost like you can't separate those two things out, which I think s- explains why some men, not me, uh, they have midlife crises- Right ... where all of a sudden they stop doing something, and now the question is, "Who am I?"
Mike Glenn: Don't know why.
Nate Sala: Exactly.
Mike Glenn: Don't know why.
Nate Sala: So it's, I almost see it as, like, two sides of the same coin. Mm-hmm. Identity and purpose. Identity and purpose. Um, [00:03:00] the way that I used... So I used to be a young adults pastor for a number of years, and of course, the number one question, especially from young men, "What am I gonna do with my life?
What am I..." Right? Mm-hmm. 19 years old, they don't know. I would say there's three ways to figure this out. Vision. Have vision over what you're supposed to do. There's probably other ways to explain it. But the first one is you have to, uh, take a look at the gifts and the talents that God has given you.
Mm-hmm. And you have to survey those. Now, maybe you're good at more than one thing, praise the Lord, you know? And it's not just that-
Mike Glenn: And that usually takes a group.
Nate Sala: Well, I was just gonna say-
Mike Glenn: You know, we're, yeah, we are, we're, we're terrible at discerning our own gifts.
Nate Sala: Bingo. It's not just what you think- Mm-hmm
that, that gifting is. I had a lot of young, young brothers come up, "I wanna preach. I wanna mm-" Well, make sure that that's verified- That's right ... by other people. So that's what it is. You have to go ask people, "This is objectively verified. I'm good at these things because God has gifted me this way." Mm-hmm.
For me, it was teaching. But then the second thing is, out of those giftings [00:04:00] and talents, what is the thing or things that fills you up when you do it? What is it when you do it, you, you're so poured into it, you lose track of time?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: What also, maybe another way to think about this is what breaks your heart?
Mike Glenn: Right.
Nate Sala: And how do those things come together where your giftings and your talents can actually help to serve in that capacity? Those are probably the two hardest things to figure out for a lot of people. Mm-hmm. It takes some time. You don't just flip a switch and you just know these things. But once you figure those two aspects out, the third thing is just opportunity.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: And if you can figure out the intersection-
Mike Glenn: What, what's the next step.
Nate Sala: Exactly.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Now, let's, let's, let's make a, a little distinction here My calling may or may not be my career.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Yeah. You were a high school teacher for a while.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: Okay. And I've got other friends who do other things, but their calling is working with the homeless or, uh, helping people get out of poverty by teaching [00:05:00] them entre- entrepreneur skills.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: But they have a different business over here that kind of pay tent making while they express their calling over here. That's right. So a lot of times we, w- we put a lot of pressure on, on people f- of trying to figure out their calling that it has to be the career. That may or may not be.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: Well, and I, I make it worse. So I'm a YouTuber.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And the shorthand answer when somebody comes up and asks me is, "What," you know, "what are you?" "I'm a YouTuber." Well, that's actually not right.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: I'm a teacher. God has called me to be a teacher.
Mike Glenn: On the platform-
Nate Sala: Yeah ... of YouTube, right. So, uh, uh, th- this was the burden when I- Mm-hmm
initially got saved. A- and it, this is what broke my heart, was I wanted to teach. I wanted to help my brothers and sisters to be equipped. Um, and so yeah, I'll be a teacher once YouTube decides, uh, they don't want Wise Disciple on the ... on the channel anymore. I'll just go do it another way. Put it,
Mike Glenn: put it to something else.
Nate Sala: Exactly right. That's right. Amen. Good. YouTube, once they realize how old I am, they're gonna kick me out. Mm-hmm. I'm fairly certain of that. I feel like I got into all of [00:06:00] this sort of by accident. Of course, there's no accidents in the world that God has made, but- Mm-hmm ... I got saved in 2009, and I almost immediately became concerned with, um, the things that I was learning in school to study theology.
My brothers and sisters didn't really know a whole lot about it, and I just wanted to relay that to them- Mm-hmm ... uh, in any way that I could. And I realize now, uh, that that was a burden that God had placed on me very early. And so I, I feel like in one sense, I've just been seeking to chase a fulfillment of that burden.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And it's led me to become a high school teacher, it's led me to become a pastor, and then now I'm a YouTuber.
Mike Glenn: Okay. You brought up about three or four interesting questions here. Awesome. Talk to me about the burden, 'cause whenever I talk to a young minister and they say, "Hey, I wanna do this," my first question is, tell me about your burden.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Tell me about what [00:07:00] keeps you up at night, what you lay awake going, "You know, if we just did this, we could do that."
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So, so describe this burden.
Nate Sala: Well, I, I appreciate that you said stay awake at night. Mm-hmm. That literally is what happened to me. I remember very vividly laying awake staring at the ceiling in bed, um, bothered, uh, that my brothers and sisters didn't know about the Trinity or they- Mm-hmm
n- not that they didn't know that it existed, but that they couldn't articulate it well or, uh, how to defend the faith, which has been big for me. Mm-hmm. When I first got saved, I got into apologetics almost immediately, and I was concerned that they couldn't get out into the public square and articulate and defend the faith- Mm-hmm
very well, and it was causing anxiety. It was causing, uh, confusion, and, uh, so that was what bothered me. It actually broke my heart.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: H- like, I, I, even in the beginning, I didn't really know how to satisfy that burden.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: So for the [00:08:00] first, I'd say, three years, I didn't really do anything about it. I just learned as much as I could.
But eventually it became clear, uh, that I could do something, and that's when I sort of got into teaching. But it's always been to sort of chase that feeling, that, that burden that God has placed in my heart.
Mike Glenn: Right. Okay, now the second interesting point you brought out is that the burden doesn't change.
Nate Sala: Right.
Mike Glenn: The way you express it, the way you serve it, the way you lead or work, all of that is up for grabs-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: depending on circumstances and situations and opportunities that would give you opportunity to express this burden.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: So I think it's important that people understand this is the burden I have, but how I live it out in this five-year part of my life-
Nate Sala: Yeah
Mike Glenn: or the next six years part of my life may be totally different, consistent only in the, in the carrying of the burden. So, so tell me how you go from, uh, studying [00:09:00] theology to a high school teacher
Nate Sala: Uh, so again, uh, I mean, you have to understand, I grew up in church unsaved.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: So I learned how to say all the right things on the test pap- uh, question.
Right ... and I learned how to speak the language. Um, but it was a club for me, and when I got old enough and bold enough to tell my parents that I d- I don't wanna go to church anymore, I did. Mm-hmm. And so I... There was a lot floating around back there, uh, that when I eventually did get saved, there was a lot of catch-up work, uh, for me to do.
Mm-hmm. And so that's what I did. I, I studied theology. I got into the defense of the faith, but I had a lot of questions, unanswered questions for me-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Nate Sala: uh, which- So
Mike Glenn: the first debate was within yourself.
Nate Sala: That's right. No, that's right.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: That's very, yeah, very
Mike Glenn: good. Yeah. These are the questions I have, and as I f- find an answer or solution, then there's probably other people with these same questions-
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right
Mike Glenn: that, uh, that you can do with. How [00:10:00] do you grow up in a church and walk out a non-believer?
Nate Sala: It's a very interesting question. And if you would've asked me when I was 17 when I left, I probably wouldn't have been able to tell you. But now, you know, older, looking back, I realize my pastors did their job.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: They taught me what the scripture said. They were very concerned about teaching even, uh, you know, expositorily.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Is that a word? That's a word.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Along with the way, I just never really heard why any of it was true. And that, for me now looking back, I realize was, uh-
Mike Glenn: Ah, see, that is so, that is so critical for, for our leaders to understand the church now.
Yeah. Okay? I tell people all the time, when I started, it was the Billy Graham School of Evangelism.
Nate Sala: Okay.
Mike Glenn: Okay. You began with the Bible says.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: Okay, that's where you started.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay. You may not have been a Christian. You may not have been a church [00:11:00] member or anything like that, but you would have known and respected the authority of scripture.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay, so we may argue about it, but you would understand that's where we started. Now-
Nate Sala: Hmm ...
Mike Glenn: see, Nate's sitting out there to go, "Okay, I see the Bible. I understand you're reading from the Bible. I don't know why-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: you're reading from the Bible." Yeah. I don't know of all the books in the world why you should choose this one.
Nate Sala: Right.
Mike Glenn: And see, that was the assumption that I had for a long time, is that these people understand that.
Nate Sala: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: And they don't.
Nate Sala: That's right. The younger generations now, I mean, you add to this the fact that they're more and more unchurched.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Uh, to the point where the youngest generation, some of them, like wouldn't even set foot in a church.
We make the joke about, pastors make the joke- Right ... about the people who come Christmas and Easter. Some of the youngest generation don't even show up for those days.
Mike Glenn: No.
Nate Sala: And so yeah, like, if we wanted to just come to them and say, "Well, this is what the scripture [00:12:00] says," well, they're gonna ask whether explicitly or implicitly the same question that I was asking, which is- Mm-hmm, yeah
why do I care?
Mike Glenn: That's interesting that you would bring up the Bible, they will say, but the Quran says this.
Nate Sala: There
Mike Glenn: you go. AI says that.
Nate Sala: That's right.
Mike Glenn: My buddy says this.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, you know, and a friend of mine told me, he said, "You have to understand that your people are, are putting together their th- their theology every day."
Nate Sala: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: To serve them, what works. Okay, does this help me get through this day? And he said, "That theology's a little bit of Jesus, a little bit of John Wayne, and a little bit of Homer Simpson." You know?
Nate Sala: Yeah, yeah.
Mike Glenn: So we take all these people, and we kind of work out our own theology of the day.
Nate Sala: Cafeteria Christianity.
Mike Glenn: Exactly right.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And then I'll go back and put it back if I don't like it.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right. That's horrible.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: You're setting people up for failure that way.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
Nate Sala: Yeah. And that's ultimately what... I don't blame my pastor, so hopefully you don't hear me saying that.
Mike Glenn: Hmm.
Nate Sala: It's just that [00:13:00] for somebody like me, I needed, I needed the why.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Well, I think, I, I, I think, geez, I got, I, I'm having a train wreck in my head here. I got about nine things I wanna say the same thing, you know? So, um- Your story is I heard, but nobody sat down with you and ask, "What are you thinking, Nate? What, what's going on inside of you? You're wired this way, Nate."
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? It has to make sense to you this way, or you're not... So nobody, nobody took that time to, to interpret the gospel for your framework of understanding.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And see, what we do as pastors is, "I preached the gospel." Well, you did.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: But the problem is, I'm sitting out there, and I have this, I'm made this way.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So I hear the gospel and it does one thing. You're sitting right next to me- Yeah ... same [00:14:00] service-
Nate Sala: Yep ...
Mike Glenn: same sermon, same words, but it's hitting you an entirely different way.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: And unless we're sitting around a kitchen table or in a, a comfortable place like that where we've grown to trust each other, where you can say, "I don't know if I get it."
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? See, uh, I'm, I'm more creative. I'm more artistic. The, the, the, the poetry and the words of scripture thrill me.
Nate Sala: Mm.
Mike Glenn: You know? Uh, the, the creation story of, of how God is calling light, and it's almost this dance-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: of, of, of, of worlds coming into being. Like, if you could script that and- Yeah ... it would be incredible.
And then I got a guy next to me going, "Was, was it seven days?" Yeah,
Nate Sala: here we
Mike Glenn: go. Now what, what is wrong with you?
Nate Sala: Right. That's right. That's right. But see, I feel like what you're talking about is discipleship.
Mike Glenn: Exactly right.
Nate Sala: Okay. But this is what I mean. I, I don't, I don't [00:15:00] want to fault my pastors, because I feel like they, they and I, I, I was born in the '70s, grew up in the '80s and '90s.
Mm-hmm. We're a product of our times. Right. You talked about Billy Graham. Uh, discipleship, or excuse me, the lack of proper discipleship in churches is still a very widespread problem.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And so, I f- if you would've asked my pastors, they would've told you, "Well, I'm doing my job."
Mike Glenn: Right.
Nate Sala: But nevertheless, um, I mean, the statistics still hold.
Uh, three out of four students grow up active in youth group still leave the church.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Some of them will come back, but that's still quite staggering, and I was one of those statistics.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. So how did you get back?
Nate Sala: Well, the Lord, uh- came f- and found me- Mm-hmm ... and, uh, pulled me out of a life of, uh, living for myself and, uh, z- I mean, so if you can picture this, I moved to Las Vegas with my parents.
Mm-hmm. Graduated high school there, left the church in Las Vegas. Grew up on the strip, [00:16:00] uh, doing various jobs. So now I'm parking cars. Mm-hmm. I got a job, uh, as a bouncer at an after-hours nightclub. Um, I was a dealer, cards dealer.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Um, people get edgy when I- That's right ... so, so what's, what are you talking about?
Cards dealer, so like poker, blackjack- Yeah ... roulette, all that.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: Um,
Mike Glenn: and I- So you instinctively do this when you
Nate Sala: go- Oh, yeah. After every video I make. That's right. That's right. I'm gonna show the, the guy in the sky. Right. Yeah. I ran the Hard Rock Hotel for five years. Wow. I knew all the celebrities. Mm. Y- y- if you can imagine, this was a lifestyle where I could get into any nightclub that I wanted and get a table and a bottle for free.
Mm. And that's basically what I did. And then the Lord came and dragged me, it seems, kicking and screaming to Him. My, uh, cousin got very sick, but I, to h- to me, he was like a brother. Mm-hmm. He was like my older brother. I looked up to him. He got sick, he got cancer- Mm ... and he died. And I held him in my arms and I watched him go, and that [00:17:00] messed me up.
Uh, for a whole year I had nightmares of my own death. Mm-hmm. Um, very violent. People come up, shoot me in the face and kill me, and then I'd wake up. I couldn't sleep. Or people that I cared about, like my parents or my friends- Mm ... would die in similar ways in front of me, and I keep waking up. Um, and then just a series of events after another until the point, uh, in 2009, my father was in a horrific accident, broke his neck and became a quadriplegic.
Um, it was at that moment where I finally prayed for the very first time, 'cause it was all still back there.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Um, but I very, I remember I was talking to the neurosurgeon. At that point we thought he was gonna die- Mm ... my father. But the neurosurgeon came out, gave a grim sort of a diagnosis, and I just went outside and I fell into the bushes outside the hospital and I just cried.
And I felt the weight of ... The, there's a category for this, it's called existential dread. Mm. The Lord made me to [00:18:00] feel the weight of my own mortality. Which is very self-centered, but that's who I was at that time.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And I couldn't take it.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. He took you to the end of that- Yeah ... of, "This is who I am," so He just pulls you to the end-
Nate Sala: Yeah
of
Mike Glenn: that.
Nate Sala: I really felt- Mm ... in my bones that I'm gonna die. Everybody I know is gonna die. What's the point?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And that's when I prayed for the very first time, and I felt the Lord's presence in a real way for the very first time.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: After that, I, I started going to church and I've never looked back.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Was that a conversion in the bushes when you were-
Nate Sala: I think so.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: People, a lot of people do the, uh, spiritual birthday thing.
Mike Glenn: Right, yeah.
Nate Sala: I'm not entirely sure about that, but, but my life changed in that moment.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Nate Sala: Absolutely.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Then the interesting thing about a story like that, and we all have a similar story of every God story begins, "And God came to me.
God showed up," you know. Every-
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: I, I get tickled at people say, "Hey, I found Jesus." No, you didn't.
Nate Sala: Yeah, [00:19:00]
Mike Glenn: that's right. Je- Jesus wasn't lost. Yeah. So it was you. So, and, and, and, and, but when you go back and try to understand when was that point, then you begin to understand, oh, now wait a minute, he was working here.
Nate Sala: That's right.
Mike Glenn: He was working here. That's right. He was working here. Now it culminated at this point.
Nate Sala: That's right.
Mike Glenn: But that conversation started earlier.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Yeah. So, so you get up and realize, "I don't know anything."
Nate Sala: Right.
Mike Glenn: And then you're surprised to find out nobody else knows anything either.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Um, but I pursue it. Mm-hmm. I pursue the burden.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And like I said, uh, so I, I got up, uh, shortly, it was right at the end of, um, school for theology. I got up and started, uh, teaching as a lay leader at my local church, and I did the youth group.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And I really enjoyed it. I caught the teaching bug-
Mike Glenn: Mm.
Nate Sala: You know? And, uh, and then I went and I asked about five people that I trusted who knew me [00:20:00] well, "Do you see this in me? Do, is there-" Mm. "... something here?" I didn't wanna trust my own sort of, um-
Mike Glenn: The call is always confirmed by the church.
Nate Sala: That's right. That's right.
Mike Glenn: Brothers and sisters who watch you go, "This is what we see in you."
Nate Sala: It's never self-appointed.
Mike Glenn: No.
Nate Sala: Okay. I'm sure we might get here, but this is partly my concern right now, what the Lord has made me sensitive to in YouTube, because we got a lot of people right now, um, they have not been verified to be-
Mike Glenn: Validated by the church.
Nate Sala: By the church. Mm-hmm. But they have a nice camera, and they have a nice microphone.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And they have turned that thing on to become digital overseers over Christians, and it's causing a gigantic mess.
Mike Glenn: Yes. Yes.
Nate Sala: So maybe we can put a pin in that and we'll
Mike Glenn: come back. Come back. No, the, the understanding of the calling is, well, one, gifts come easily.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: If you have the gift, it's just easy for you.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Uh, [00:21:00] studying scripture, uh, you know, I love studying scripture. You and I would probably spend all day, you know, chasing, uh, various things that... We love to do that.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And for you d- and for you and me to come and say, "Hey, did you see this? This is interesting."
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And everybody goes, "I've never seen that."
Well, how can you not see it? It's just, it's right there in the... Yeah. See, that's gift. The church then comes to you and says, "Hey, we have watched you. We see how the Lord is using you to bless the church in these ways."
Nate Sala: That's right
Mike Glenn: And then they call that out and ordain that, we want you to use your gifts in this way.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: But if you, if you're working outside of a, a body of believers and you don't have believers who are watching your life and holding you accountable, uh, to your best self-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: you know, and it's, it's not looking for you to screw up, but hey, Nate- Yeah ... we know who you are. This is, this is your best self.
That's what we're going for. Uh, then y- y- [00:22:00] you, you just, you just lost. You know, one of, one of my heroes for a long time was Ravi Zacharias.
Nate Sala: Hmm. Here
Mike Glenn: we go. And I loved Ravi. Yeah. Read everything. And, and, and, and again, you know, you watch him on the videos and it's like, gosh, if I could do that.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And then this man had not been in church in years-
Nate Sala: Yeah.
That's right ...
Mike Glenn: because they were always going, "You gotta write another book. You gotta go raise the money for the, for the ministry," da, da, da, da, da.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, uh, and there was nobody in his life going, "Ravi, are you okay? Ravi, I'm seeing some things. Ravi, you haven't talked to me about your prayer life lately."
Nate Sala: That's right.
Mike Glenn: You know? And, uh, and then we lose him, and we lose all that work and all that influence and-
Nate Sala: Right ...
Mike Glenn: uh, w- with that because the church has to be part of- That's right ... uh, of the, of the grounded life.
Nate Sala: I don't know, so let me repeat back what I just heard you say in my own way, [00:23:00] because we already mentioned this, but you're just describing, again, a lack of discipleship.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Nate Sala: Proper discipleship- Right ... even for people who are in, quote, unquote, "para-church organizations or ministries," like Ravi Zacharias- Mm-hmm ... or myself now. Mm-hmm. It's so vital that we get back to a biblical understanding of what discipleship is and really do it.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And, uh, it's, I'm concerned 'cause y- I can give you five other examples just like Ravi.
Oh, gosh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Mike Glenn: Oh, gosh, yeah. And, uh, uh, and, and inevitably what happens is they get, we confuse working for Jesus as the same thing as being with Jesus.
Nate Sala: Ooh. That'll
Mike Glenn: preach. And, and it's not.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's
Mike Glenn: right. Okay. If, if you work for me and my team, I would routinely grab you and ask you two questions, and you better be able to answer them.
Nate Sala: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: What are you reading in scripture, Nate?
Nate Sala: Okay.
Mike Glenn: For you. Not what are you getting ready to teach. What are you reading?
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Two, what's [00:24:00] Jesus teaching you?
Nate Sala: Here we go.
Mike Glenn: See, our rabbi is alive.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: And the radical teaching is if you sit down, he'll teach you just like he taught the 12.
Nate Sala: That's right.
Mike Glenn: Okay?
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: You better be able to tell me real fast what that is, or I will send you home.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: I want you out of the building. I don't want you near the ministry.
Nate Sala: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Love it. Because if you're not coming out of the overflow Of Christ pouring himself into you, you're dangerous to the ministry
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
It's Christ-like
Mike Glenn: Isn't that ... That's right. That me- you know, you can't hold the ocean in a thimble. So when Christ begins to pour himself into you, the overflow, the running out, is where the ministry comes from
Nate Sala: Yes, sir
Mike Glenn: And if you're not showing up out of that overflow, you're dangerous. You're- You're, you, you're dangerous, so
Nate Sala: You remind me of my mentor, uh, Paul Gotthard.
He, uh, he's a great brother. But he- Yeah ... for the first, uh, I'd say eight months of knowing him, he taught me about exactly what you're [00:25:00] saying Mm-hmm And it was out of that that I became a pastor. But he taught me that first- Right ... so that I understood that first- Right ... before he got me on staff
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
Nate Sala: And I'm, I'm so grateful to hear you say that.
Galatians 2:20
Mike Glenn: Oh, yeah.
Nate Sala: Amen.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, the overflow. That's right. That's
Nate Sala: right
Mike Glenn: Now, uh, let's talk about this, this burden of discipleship, 'cause you and I sh- you and I share that. Um, what is discipleship? Let's, let's not assume everybody who's joining this podcast knows what we're talking about. Because it, to the typical church member, if you say, "I want you to come to discipleship," you're talking about a class on Sunday night- Yeah
and we're gonna study Jesus trivia.
Nate Sala: Yeah. And
Mike Glenn: then the class
Nate Sala: is over- So we're really good at
Mike Glenn: Jeopardy.
Nate Sala: Yeah. And then it's over in two weeks, and then- Oh, two weeks ... and then you're discipled, just like
Mike Glenn: that Yeah, and I'm discipled.
Nate Sala: Yeah. No. Yeah. That's not it. So, uh, so, uh, Luke 6:40, Jesus says to his disciples, "A disciple is fully trained When he is [00:26:00] like his teacher.
And that is the ultimate goal of- Mm-hmm ... a disciple is to be like Christ. Mm-hmm. Um, Paul says in 1 Corinthians, "Imitate me as I imitate Christ." Mm-hmm. And so there you have this structure of discipleship. You have to be like Christ, not just in the ways that he said things, but also in the ways that he thought, the ways that he acted, the ways that he loved.
Mm-hmm. Um, it's becoming more conforming to the image of Christ, the Son of God, Romans 8. So anyway, that's the ultimate goal. How you achieve it today is very interesting because we're living in a digital age, and so everything is a video on YouTube, uh, or an app or something like that. Mm-hmm. Uh, but I don't think that you can do any better than what we had as a model in Jesus Christ with his 12.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Spending time with brothers. I would say, I'm curious to see what you think about this, but men with men, women with women. Mm-hmm. And they spend time together, they live life [00:27:00] together, and they study the scripture together, they pray together, they hold each other accountable to sin, and memorize scripture, that'd be great.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And then they just decide, "We're gonna do this again next week, and we're gonna do it again next week." Mm-hmm. But the goal is to grow up and to equip the saints for the work of ministry, Ephesians 4- Mm-hmm ... so that these disciples can launch out and go do it with other people. That's basically it.
It's Elijah and Elisha. It's Jesus and, you know, the 12- Mm-hmm ... or Jesus and the three.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: That's what discipleship is. It's not a class. You don't get a test of trivia and then you graduate.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: That's what I would say it is
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. The, uh, what I'm telling pastors now is, uh, and, and for so long we have measured a successful pastor by attendance.
How many people can you get into the building?
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and now I'm telling people that is a bogus, uh, measuring-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: uh, uh, stick. [00:28:00] So, but what we're looking for now is how many leaders have you developed.
Nate Sala: Ooh, here we go.
Mike Glenn: Okay, how many, how many people have you looked at across the congregation and, and in conversation with God discerned who these leaders are and then pour your life into them?
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: Okay? You'd be better off developing 10 leaders than drawing a congregation of 1,000.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Because real quickly those disciples will have the thousand and then 10,000 because of the way the math works. Yeah. Which is the, which is the secret of, of, of... But it is the hard thing of sitting down with, with...
Yes, and I b- because when you put, let's be honest here, this is just Uncle Mike talking to you. You put women in a group and the men start showing off for the women.
Nate Sala: Oops.
Mike Glenn: Okay? You w- you heard it here first. Or men will, will defer to the women because the women are quote more spiritual because we haven't give, we haven't given a spiritual language to [00:29:00] men.
Nate Sala: Mm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? All of the songs are female. They're talking about how you love Jesus and all that. We do not have a song that says to Jesus, "Walk on, Lord, I've got your six."
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Now, men would sing that song.
Nate Sala: Yeah. I would sing that song.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: That's
Mike Glenn: right. But, but we don't, we, because everything's, it, it, there's a lot of...
And we'll talk about that in another podcast. Um, but, uh, yeah, men with men. You just lost your female audience, by the way. Because... No, no, they, they know. They know. They're, th- they're the experts on men. They know how men are. Uh, so, um, there, there's something about a man talking to a man about how to be a man and a woman talking to the, the, the- Yeah, that's right
the mature women teach the younger women. Uh, the mature men teach the younger men.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And all of that. And one of the things going on right now in our culture is we don't have the intergenerational relationships.
Nate Sala: Mm. That's right. That's so good.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: Yeah. And it's, uh, made worse m- uh, [00:30:00] with social media.
Mike Glenn: Oh, yeah.
Nate Sala: You know?
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Nate Sala: Uh-
Mike Glenn: So-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: we talked about discipleship. How do you do that?
Nate Sala: In the age of social media, online, digital, all that stuff? I run two discipleship groups right now- Mm-hmm ... as we speak. Um, but we're meeting in person. Mm-hmm. I have two brothers in one discipleship group. I got two other brothers in another discipleship group.
We literally meet, sit in a circle, kind of like this. Uh, I had them sign a covenant agreement, you know, that we were gonna do everything that w- uh, that we, that I'm about to list to you. But we read the scripture, we memorize the scripture, we pray together, we give praise reports, we talk about our struggles and sin.
We hold each other accountable, which maybe that's something to talk about, is we don't even know how to do that anymore. Mm-hmm. Walk the balance between holding accountable but also encouraging to keep going- Mm-hmm ... and be sanctified and submit to the Holy Spirit. And then we, uh, pray again, and then we [00:31:00] leave.
And then we stay in each other's lives. We- I'll text them, you know, "How you doing?" Mm-hmm. Uh, "What's going on? I know you got the big, uh, uh, interview," or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. You know? Sometimes we get together and we'll just eat a meal. Um, or, you know, if I have something and it's local here in town, I'll bring them.
Mm-hmm. That's basically, in a nutshell, what discipleship looks like. Now, I didn't mention devices. Well, maybe I did, texting, but, uh, devices are largely left out. You know? I... This is what I was gonna say a moment ago. I just, the more that I study the scripture and think about this issue, the more I realize that good Christians have to live analog lives.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: We have to slow down and be simple, because the world is ramping up and it's getting faster and faster, especially online.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: That means we need to slow down. And so-
Mike Glenn: The, the world wants to put you in the situation where you don't have time to think.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: To where you make a decision not understanding the consequences.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Or the r- go down the road not knowing where you're [00:32:00] going because they pressed you into to where there's no time to think.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, hot takes are a wonderful artifact- Yeah, yeah ... of all of this. Mm-hmm. You know? It's horrible. It's unbiblical. James says, "Be slow to speak." Yeah. Hot takes is, flips it around.
Mike Glenn: Oh, yeah, you gotta be on there in 15 seconds. So, but, you know, I d- p- people ask me all the time, said, "How did you guys live without, without cell phones?"
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: We lived very well.
Nate Sala: More peaceably, I'm sure.
Mike Glenn: We lived very well, yeah. We never lost our phone. It was always hanging on the wall in the kitchen.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: You know? You didn't misplace it.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, uh, but, and, and I think you hit on a couple of, of key points. One, uh, there is a, there is a strong intentional commitment to this discipleship process.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: We're going to be here at the agreed-upon time, at the agreed-upon place, but we are going to be consistent in that.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: Uh, w- I've been in a, a group, leading a group now for six or seven years, and it started when I was with [00:33:00] a, a, a, a young man that I've really watched him grow up. And I asked him, I said, "What group you in?" He said, "I'm not in a group." I said, "You gotta be in a group." Yeah. "Everybody's got to be in a group."
And, uh, he said, "I hate groups."
Nate Sala: Huh.
Mike Glenn: I said, "Uh, me too." So, uh, so call your buddies who hate groups, and I'll do it.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And he said, "Why would you do it?" And I said, "'Cause if I don't get in a group, the church is gonna put me in a group, and they'll probably-" "... put me in a group with people I don't like." "So I met- I better, you know, I better choose my own group than be in..."
Yeah. But w- you know, we have had, we, we have walked through some tough times. We've had some, some, some of the best times of our... One, one story we love to tell, one of the guys looked at us and says, "You know, I need, I know I need to pray with my wife. I know I do."
Nate Sala: Yeah. "
Mike Glenn: I just can't. We just get there, and I just lock up."
So we talked through that a little bit, then I look at the guys and I say, I asked the friend, I said, "What time would you pray with your wife if you were going to do it?"
Nate Sala: Yeah. [00:34:00]
Mike Glenn: He said, "Probably about 8:00, you know, when everything's kind of quiet. We'd probably just..." And I said, "Okay." And I looked at the group and I said, "Text him at 8:00."
Nate Sala: Okay, yeah. That's right, accountability.
Mike Glenn: So-
Nate Sala: That's right ...
Mike Glenn: he told us later that his phone just started de-de-de-de-de-de-de. With the whole group blowing him up. And his wife said, "What's wrong with your phone?" He said, "Well, baby, I think we gotta pray now." Yeah.
Nate Sala: So That's the Lord.
Mike Glenn: But yeah, that's, that's, that's the kind of things you sh- you, you have.
If... I tell people, "The reason you have to be in a group is if the first person you lie to in Bible study is yourself."
Nate Sala: Mm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? 'Cause you'll read a passage of scripture, and you will say, "Oh, that doesn't apply to me."
Nate Sala: Yeah. "
Mike Glenn: I don't have a problem with that." If you don't have a brother next to you laughing at you-
Nate Sala: Yeah
Mike Glenn: going, "Oh, yes it does. Don't you remember last week when-" Yeah ... calling you out on your stuff?" You won't ever grow.
Nate Sala: That's right.
Mike Glenn: You know. Uh, and, and the other part, you know, the accountability. What frustrates me, I've been [00:35:00] hearing about accountability all my life, and usually it meant yelling at somebody when they screwed up.
Well, the last thing you need i- when you mess up is for somebody to tell you how you've messed up. Yeah. You already know that. I, you know.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: But what we have found, what I have found out is, is to sit down Uh, and I learned this being a parent-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: with my boys. We would sit down with them, my, my wife and I, and I would show them a sonogram picture.
Nate Sala: Mm.
Mike Glenn: And I would say, "Your mother and I have known you before you were born."
Nate Sala: Mm. "
Mike Glenn: We have watched you. We have prayed for you. There's nothing in your life we haven't seen. We haven't missed anything. This is who we know you are."
Nate Sala: Yeah. "
Mike Glenn: You're kind. You're this, you're this." And we'd give real-life examples, and then we would say, "This behavior doesn't match who we know you are."
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right. That's good. "
Mike Glenn: So tell me what [00:36:00] happened."
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So the account- I love
Nate Sala: that. Yeah. I s- I see identity in there.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Nate Sala: I see purpose in there.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: It's a positive sort of a discipline.
Mike Glenn: That's right. Yeah, yeah. "Now, we know who you are, and this doesn't match, and you know it, so tell me what happened."
Nate Sala: Yeah. That's so good.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. So now as, as we become brothers, I'll be able to say to you, "Nate-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: I know who you are. This is what you have told me. This is important to you, and this is what I've seen in your life."
Nate Sala: Yeah. "
Mike Glenn: This behavior doesn't match what you tell me, so tell me what's going on."
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, that's good. This is how I handle- Yeah ... uh, accountability in groups.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, right.
Nate Sala: So-
Mike Glenn: And that is so, so important for you to have a safe place to work out your mess.
Nate Sala: Yeah. I remember, uh, one of the books I was told to read as a pastor, as a preaching pastor, was Dangerous Calling.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And one of the things in the book-
Mike Glenn: The, uh, the, the,
Nate Sala: Paul Tripp?
Paul David Tripp.
Mike Glenn: Yep.
Nate Sala: One of the things he said [00:37:00] is, "Pastors are storytellers." They better be if they're preaching. Mm-hmm. So, uh, but the, the, the dangerous aspect of that is the stories that pastors tell themselves.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And so, yeah, we need to be held accountable to others who can actually objectively see us, all the blind spots- Mm-hmm
all the faults, and lovingly get us back on track.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: That's right.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah, a g- a great example of that is, uh, my cardiologist retired, so we got a new cardiologist. So we walk in. He looks at me, looks at all my records, and he says, uh, "Mike, I need you to lose 30 pounds." So I looked at my wife, I said, "We need to go find a new doctor."
Nate Sala: That's what I would do.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. That's right. Let's find a doctor who smokes and, you know, that kind of-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: but so we go home, we're talking about this. You know, she says, "Well, you don't, you need to start eating scale and all this and
Nate Sala: all." Oh, forget
Mike Glenn: it. I'm like, "I can't do this." But then, then this is what Jeannie did.
She says, "You have a 10-year-old [00:38:00] granddaughter."
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's it. Yeah. "
Mike Glenn: Who wants you to be at her wedding."
Nate Sala: Vision. "
Mike Glenn: You won't be-"
Nate Sala: Yeah "...
Mike Glenn: if you don't lose the weight."
Nate Sala: Yeah. That's so good.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Same information.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Same task, different story.
Nate Sala: Yes.
Mike Glenn: Different story. Boy. And of course, you know, the beauty, the beauty of the gospel, mate, is we invite people into an entirely different story.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. This is the God story that's going on around you and you can be part of it.
Nate Sala: I don't know if you're picking up on this. I feel like we're sort of like frogs on a lily pad. Mm-hmm. We're hopping around on the same fundamental, crucial aspects- Mm-hmm ... of what it is to be a Christian. And we talked about discipleship, obviously, lack of discipleship.
Uh, but now we're touching on vision. A moment ago I told you about my testimony and how my pastors- Mm-hmm ... they did their job, but they forgot to tell me why it's true. Right. Mm-hmm. Well, that means that my vision of the scripture and my life as I should live in, uh, obedience to [00:39:00] the scripture is incomplete.
Mm-hmm. And now here we are, we're talking about accountability. Right. But the way to do it properly is to give vision, cast vision. Vision, story, right. Exactly. Jesus, when he calls his t- uh, the, the disciples, the first disciples in Mark 1, he cast vision.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. "
Nate Sala: Follow me and this is who you're gonna be when I'm done with you boys."
Mike Glenn: That's right. Good
Nate Sala: stuff. Vision is fundamental.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, yeah. Good stuff. Okay. Somebody's watching the podcast say, "Okay, you've convinced me about discipleship. Where do I start?"
Nate Sala: Well, are you in a church? So one of the things that I hear all the time as a YouTuber is, "Nate, you're my pastor." Mm-hmm. False. That's incorrect.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Um, I am trained as a pa- I'm an ordained SBC pastor. I go to an SBC church, but I'm not your pastor if you're watching my videos. Mm-hmm. You have to go find a local church, and you have to thrive in that environment under a pastor, um, and all of that. Mm-hmm. So that would be like, to me, that's step one- Mm-hmm
because once you're there, that's the selection pool out of which you pull people who are ready to be discipled.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Nate Sala: I don't know how to do it any other way.
Mike Glenn: Mm-mm.
Nate Sala: You could, like, I guess, [00:40:00] theoretically meet somebody at the laundromat. Is that a thing anymore? I just showed my age. A laundromat.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
There's more of them now becasue th- ... everybody lives in an apartment now. Is it- Well, with that, but, uh, no. You know what I'm saying. And I think, I think, uh, listen, we, we, we all know. You don't have to tell me anything about a church I, I don't know. I, I, you know, I pastored for 45 years. I understand church life.
But when it- within any church, there's another church.
Nate Sala: Mm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Yeah, there's the congregation, but somewhere in there, there's a group of believers who are, who are seeking the Lord with all their heart.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: You can find them if that's who you're looking for.
Nate Sala: That's right.
Mike Glenn: Now, if you go in looking for every hypocrite, you can find them.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: But if you go in there looking- ... for them, that's who, that's who you'll find.
Nate Sala: Okay, good, because now you hit on the second thing that, uh ... Because I would go th- I go through this with my discipleship groups- Mm-hmm ... because there comes a time when they leave and get launched out to go find- Right ... other [00:41:00] guys.
Uh, when I was in grad school to become a teacher, I was learning nothing. If you can imagine, secular school- Mm-hmm ... and they're teaching me all this horrible stuff. So I went around and I found a guy. His name was Howard Hendricks. And Howard Hendricks- Howard
Mike Glenn: Theological Seminary.
Nate Sala: Howard Hendricks changed my life.
Prof. I've, I never met the brother. Yeah. But one of the things that he said was, "You need to find people who are," forgive the acronym, "but FAT."
Mike Glenn: Right.
Nate Sala: You need to find faithful, available, teachable people that you can spend time with and disciple. Mm-hmm. And that's the acronym that I think we all should look for.
There's probably a better way to do it now, 'cause people are sensitive, but that's what you should ... In the environment of church-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Nate Sala: or wherever you are, you should be looking for FAT people.
Mike Glenn: Well, and, and what we forget is as you're praying, "Lord, I need to find a group"- That's right ... there are other guys out there praying-
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right
Mike Glenn: "I need to find a group."
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And he'll answer both prayers by putting you together.
Nate Sala: Amen. [00:42:00] That's right. That was my last- Yeah ... my current discipleship group right now, I met with these brothers, saw the need, and I s- thought about it, prayed about it, but when I called them in for the first meeting, they said, "Nate, I already, the Lord already told me it was gonna be you."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And I was like, "I thought it was my idea."
Mike Glenn: All right. Get in a church. F- FAT people, faithful- ... available-
Nate Sala: Teachable ...
Mike Glenn: teachable.
Nate Sala: That's right And then once you're in that structure, you commit to meet at least once a week.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Nate Sala: Where I, I write out a contract, I call it a covenant.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: But we're gonna study the scripture together, we're gonna memorize scripture together, we're gonna pray together.
We're gonna be open and vulnerable with each other, and if there's an additional, sometimes guys like to do this, it's like we're gonna read an additional book, like Dangerous Calling- Right ... something else, you know? But we're gonna commit to these things every single week for a duration of time. Mm-hmm.
And I need you to sign it, and I hand them, "You sign this." And I've, I've had to, unfortunately, I've had to remove some people who [00:43:00] weren't taking it seriously, and it, it's not like I'm trying to be a, a jerk, but I would just tell them, "Look, it just doesn't seem like this is the right time for you to be in a discipleship group, but here's what we're doing."
Right. And, uh, so th- th- that's the sort of agreement that you get together and do those things, and then you just consistently do it. But here's what happens. As you spend time in the Word with brothers, or women with women, the, the maturity starts to take place.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: And so they start to grow up, and sin ideally starts to fall off.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: It's amazing. My, my mentor, uh, has a PhD in c- counseling, so he taught me about counseling, and he said, "Nate, every issue where you are a pastor and you have to sit and counsel with somebody is a discipleship issue." Mm-hmm. And if you can imagine in Las Vegas, one of the greatest problems, especially with young males, is being addicted to pornography.
Well, I would not, I would purpose not to talk about that problem. What I said was, "We're gonna sit and we're gonna study the scripture together. We're gonna [00:44:00] behold the Lord in His Word together, and we're gonna memorize the scripture together." Mm-hmm. "Because the more that we behold Christ, uh, and we're satisfied with Him- Mm-hmm
those sins are gonna start to fall away." Mm-hmm. And that's exactly what would happen. And so that's the structure every single week of discipleship. That's how I do it.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, I, I, I tell people all the time, if I hand, if I ho- hand you a dirty glass and say, "Clean this glass," you could get a knife and scrape out the dirt.
Nate Sala: Mm.
Mike Glenn: Now, that would take a long time.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Or you can run water in it so fast and so hard to the point where the water flowing out is as pure as the water flowing in.
Nate Sala: Yeah, that's right.
Mike Glenn: Okay? That's discipleship.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: It's not that we're going to scrape all the little sins out of your life. We're g- we want you to be so filled with Christ-
Nate Sala: Yeah
Mike Glenn: that as He pours Himself into you, the overflow is as pure-
Nate Sala: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: as what He's pouring into you. Yeah. Now, that's where, [00:45:00] that's where we're headed.
Nate Sala: The way you combat sin is you love God more than your sin.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Nate Sala: Amen.
Mike Glenn: And it, it does work.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So what's your dream?
Nate Sala: Moving forward-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Nate Sala: to continue to fulfill the burden that God has given me.
I actually, it's unclear, like, how that's... I, I'm not gonna be on YouTube forever.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Um, it, it'll just change into something else. It'll be some other medium. Maybe I'll lose my voice one day. Well, I'll just write. And if I lose my voice and my hands, I'll figure out another way to do it. That's
Mike Glenn: right.
Nate Sala: Right now, though, in the next, I'd say, couple of years, I really wanna try... One of the people that sort of was part of my seminal formation early on was a guy named Francis Schaeffer.
Mike Glenn: Sure.
Nate Sala: Um, he had an, uh-
Mike Glenn: Theologian who had the com- uh, community in Switzerland.
Nate Sala: That's right. Yeah, L'Abri. It was called L'Abri.
Mike Glenn: L'Abri.
Nate Sala: Yeah. My dream is to create some kind of current, uh, iteration of L'Abri. Of
Mike Glenn: L'Abri. Yeah. Ah. Now, Schaeffer, for our friends [00:46:00] who may not be familiar with him, started this to disciple Christians to engage their culture.
Nate Sala: Amen.
Mike Glenn: Okay, so you would go there as a filmmaker- Yeah ... to be discipled, to return to the world as a filmmaker.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: But a discipled filmmaker.
Nate Sala: That's right.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Yeah. So, and your dream is to, is to, is to bring that concept to life here.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: I don't know why you would do that in Nashville. What, what, uh- ... what's creative about why you would do that in Nashville? So are they filming anything in Nashville? I don't know.
Have they done anything in Nashville? Uh, they would give us the, I don't know how that would work here.
Nate Sala: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: How do people find you?
Nate Sala: Uh, I'm online, so you can go to my YouTube channel. It's called Wise Disciple.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: Which funnily enough, it's not about me at all. A lot of people, so they'll call me or I'll speak and get on stage, the Wise Disciple, Nate Sala.
I'm not calling myself- Mm-hmm ... the Wise Disciple. That comes from Jesus. In Matthew 10:16, he told his disciples, "Behold, I'm sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves." Right. "So be wise as serpents and innocent as doves." Mm-hmm. And so it's just a reminder that we're all supposed to be this way.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Nate Sala: You know? But you can go there, [00:47:00] Wise Disciple. You can go to wisedisciple.org. That's my website. Mm-hmm. And you can find out all about me.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Nate Sala, Wise Disciple, thanks for being with us. Thanks for you being with us as well, and we'll see you next time.
Nate Sala: Thank you.
