Rory Feek on Finding New Beginnings
This episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast features a heartfelt conversation with Rory Feek: singer-songwriter, author, and storyteller. Rory is best known for his music career with his late wife, Joey, and for the powerful love story that touched millions around the world. But beyond the spotlight, Rory has walked through seasons of deep grief, raising his daughter Indiana as a single father, and learning to see life as a story filled with both heartbreak and unexpected beauty.
-
Mike Glenn: So are
Rory Fleek: you
Mike Glenn: writing, recording
Rory Fleek: any? I am. I just, I just recorded a new song. Just this year I started writing songs again too. That's going real well. I'm ... We can, we can talk about it. It's, it's going well, but it's also difficult because it's ... It would be similar if I went back into the, into a gym. Right. Uh, whatever those muscles were that I had- Right, right
they're, they're- Atrophied now ... they're atrophied. And I used to, I used to know where to go and what to do- ... and have all these tools, and now I'm just like, "Huh." Like, I don't know. It's such a- Yeah ... it's a hard puzzle, and I used to be better [00:01:00] at the puzzle. But it's good.
Mike Glenn: I'm enjoying- But you're writing the children's books and-
Rory Fleek: No, I have been doing that for a few years.
Right ... those kinds of things. But songwriting again has been something that I've just started back doing in the last year. So, and then I just, I recorded a new song. Just rec- just recording a little bit here and there, and that's, that's been wonderful too. Just rediscovering music actually is sort of the season that I'm, I'm in.
Mike Glenn: The heart has to be in a right place for there to be music.
Rory Fleek: Mm-hmm. The other thing is is God's done such a work. He ... Uh, I'm, I'm a linear guy. Mm-hmm. You know, it's like, well we did this- Mm-hmm ... and then this happened, this happened, and then he takes us to this place, and I think it's all heading down a road.
And sometimes you leave these things and you're never coming back to them. Yeah. They're, they're a part of a journey. But life's not that way all the time. No. It's, [00:02:00] it's you're always re-circling and coming back to things. I
Mike Glenn: remind people, I say, "We want it to be a stairstep. You deal with it, move on. Deal with it, move on."
Mm-hmm. But it's like a spiral.
Rory Fleek: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: You're still making progress- Mm-hmm ... but you feel like you're working in circles. Yeah. And
Rory Fleek: sometimes it feels like one of those illusion spirals- Yeah, that's right. ... that's like I'm back out ... I, I was go- I'm going up. Yeah. How am
Mike Glenn: I back here again? Yeah. How'd I get right here?
Yeah. That's what, where we're at. Yeah. Uh, Joey, uh, you and I have known each other a long time. When, when I first met you, you and, and your wife, uh, uh- uh, Joey were singing together and, uh, and we had the opportunity to be part of, uh, what was it? The CCM or whatever it was, worship experience on the- Yeah ... on the river down there.
On the river. Yes, sir. Gosh, that was a long time ago now. That has been a while ago. Man, uh, but, uh, y- you, you are, you, you would introduce yourself as a very blessed man. [00:03:00] Absolutely. And, and, and, and, and, and favored of God. But those of us who have watched your journey, have watched you deal with some of the hardest things than anybody has to deal with.
I mean, there was, there was J- Joey's sickness and then her eventual passing. Uh, in the middle of all of that is a special needs child. Mm-hmm. Uh, there is, there is this chaos of the music industry and one of the things I tease you about is that you did it wrong, is that instead of, of getting on a bus and travel, you went to the middle of nowhere Tennessee and built a theater.
That's right. And said, "If you wanna hear her sing- Yeah ... you need to come here because- That's right ... this is where our family is, and we're not gonna do that kind of thing." And it was remarkably, and still is- Yes, sir ... remarkably successful-
Rory Fleek: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: in, in all of that. So, um, where, where do you want to start with, with your story?
And now- Well- ... now the story's got another chapter to it. All this stuff. Yeah. We've had
Rory Fleek: a, we've had a couple of, [00:04:00] of doozy chapters- ... since those. Some of my friends... Well, you know, you know Don Miller? Sure. Yeah. And, and, uh, I, I've had this kind of similar journey to Don in the sense of I've n- I knew how to write a good story.
Mm-hmm. The living one was a little bit different. And when you, when you decide to invite that into your life and you begin to see your life as a story- Right ... and every day's a great, a, a blank page, and you start moving along that way, you, you invite a bunch of things that you don't expect, which is you think a great story is I, I, I want to accomplish this.
Right. I accomplish this- Mm-hmm ... and I've, my dreams have come true and, and, you know, nobody... That's actually not a good story. Good stories have tragedy and, and ups and downs and- And
Mike Glenn: tension ... all of those things. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Rory Fleek: So that's kinda what you're inviting into your life and, and I [00:05:00] shake my head sometimes and just think I, I'm a g- I couldn't write this for n- I wouldn't want to because- Yeah
it's been very difficult, and it's also been incredibly beautiful. But I, I've also, I wasn't prepared for how, how God makes the end Always the beginning. When you've com- Mm ... when you've been part of a story that just feels like, and he wraps it into a bow and you're- Right ... just like, I, th- I just wanna lay down- I was, I was gonna ask, right, and I've been finished
and think, "How did I get to be part of that?" Yeah. Yeah. And, and there's it. There's no, I'm just gonna bask in that. Mm-hmm. And you realize that at that moment, there's a t- there's a turning of the page, and it's the beginning of a new story that you, you can't imagine, and it's gonna have its own twists and turns.
That pull certain
Mike Glenn: threads and- Absolutely ... wisdoms out of that previous story- Mm-hmm ... into the new story. Mm-hmm.
Rory Fleek: I just, I didn't see those things, and I, uh, I'm still in the midst of [00:06:00] them. I'm in the midst of the joy and the absolute, um, chaos and difficulties. But as we were even in those days with Joey passing away, I, I strangely feel like I am the luckiest guy in the world.
And I think that's, that's probably the best part of it all is you can, you can experience these things where you wake up breathing hard a little bit 'cause it's a little terrifying, and yet you, you, you know this is a great gift he's given me to be part of, of something like this. Mm. Even the difficult things.
Mm-hmm. Who gets this? Yeah. Who gets, who gets to suffer in some of... Who gets to suffer? Mm-hmm. He must love me a lot. Sometimes I feel that way. Yeah. Yeah. But no, I, we can start anywhere you want. Well, yeah. Uh- Any way you like ...
Mike Glenn: let's, um, uh, y- you know, y- you had i- i- in, uh, uh, with, with, with [00:07:00] Joey, one of the great love s- stories that in, I mean, the, the handsome Marine and, and all of that.
And I, I remember the pictures and, uh, of, of the two of you dancing. Yes, sir. And, and you're in your, y- your, your dress blues for the Marines and, and, a- and all of that. You sing together. You're successful, uh, and all of that, and then it's gone. Mm-hmm. Uh, and you know, in Nashville, it's what have you done in the last 24 hours?
So you take care of Joey. You're off the road. You're not in the studio. You're not writing, and then you've got a little girl at home. So, so talk to us about that transition Of, of, of how, how you move from the worst moment in your life to, hey, this is the new normal.
Rory Fleek: Well, one thing that we recognized fairly early on, we were trying to grow a music career.
Mm-hmm. And we were, we [00:08:00] were... Didn't take us too long to pivot, 'cause we lived on a farm and, and people had told us again and again. She was one, she was the one who had moved to Nashville to be a singer. I, I somehow got drawn into it with her and, and was so blessed to be part of it all. But I remember early on when we were married that she would have, you know, some big, um, producers and people, the people who make it happen.
Right. And they, they specifically said, "You know that girl over here? Y- you know, these, these hero- that h- the hero of yours and that hero of yours? They don't have a life."
Mike Glenn: Exactly right. They don't have any- Exactly right. Mm-hmm ... they don't have anything. They don't have
Rory Fleek: any relationship with their family.
They don't have anything. They have a, they're, they have an incredible career, but it costs them everything. And they made it clear that it was one or the other, and somewhere along the line, uh, we did, we realized that if it had to be one or the other, we, we didn't wanna just live on a farm. We didn't wanna just sing about [00:09:00] living on a farm, we wanted to live on one.
And so we came off the road and, and started building our career differently by building a concert hall at home and by, by making a television show at home by ourselves and showing up in people's living rooms and- ... all those things. And that worked really well. And then, and then b- later on when we had a little girl and then, uh, Joey got sick, and then, uh, there became this shift and we were both hyper-aware that we were, we would have called ourselves rurally famous.
Like- Uh-huh ... we're pretty well-known, especially, you know, in the, the middle of America, Midwest everywhere. Country people, ranchers, farmers, all those people know us. But, you know, we're not Taylor Swift famous. Right. We're not Beyoncé or- Right ... or even Tim McGraw famous. But what ended up happening is, is that God made this transition.
We were taking time off after Indy was born and, and, uh, simplifying our lives and [00:10:00] started capturing Day by day and then writing a blog and, and then a different story started to unfold. Mm-hmm. Different than the music industry. And within about a year and a half when Joey was going through all of this, I, I didn't know that
I was a writer, but I was a songwriter. Mm-hmm. I'd never written before. And I started to develop a voice there, and God began to give us a different story that we became part of, and that story eclipsed everything else. Right. And we became aware of the fact that perhaps God only used this m- music industry career that we had as a great setup- To set you up for the- For, for what he was really- And this was,
Mike Glenn: this was before blogs were the big deal- Yes
or anything. This was just- And he was gonna
Rory Fleek: set us, he set it up so that we were famous enough that millions of people would follow the story that he wanted people to follow, which was how bravely she handled her walk through cancer with a one-year-old [00:11:00] and how, um, how kindly and lovingly and, um, peacefully she managed letting go and passing.
And then I got to write and be part of all of that stuff, too. But it became clear to her and to I that this other stuff was really just a setup for this moment. And even though we got to be part of CMA Awards and, and all sorts- Mm-hmm ... of things, winning, you know, being part of things, that e- that was eclipsed by being part of a story that none of her heroes or mine have ever got to be part of.
Right. And I, we went from being people, and particular me by the time that she had passed away, when we were normally in here in Franklin walking down a grocery store aisle, people might wanna take a selfie with us- Right. Yeah ... or tell us about a song. But it became immediately after that, everywhere I went, people would just wrap their arms around you [00:12:00] and cry and, and you'd be pumping gas, and pe- people knew you at a level that no songs or no music was going to
And you had touched their lives and encouraged and inspired them. And, and that was something that Joey recognized and I recognized that God was doing a greater work that he was gonna let us be part of. And that was such a special thing that I think we became overwhelmed with gratitude that this wasn't a mistake, a music career gone wrong.
It was a- Oh ... an evolution of a story that he was- Mm-hmm ... he was gonna let the tools of our singing and, and still to this day, those, those songs and all of that still out there. He was gonna let those tools play a role in a larger story that he was gonna tell. And that got us through that difficult time.
She recognized it, I recognized it, and then after she passed [00:13:00] away, Indiana was two years old. We came back to the farmhouse and began trying to build a life from there. And I really, I really thought, well, that was- Yeah ... at very- That was a great ride I mean, it was, uh, I, we just in, in life and love- Mm-hmm
we just won the Grand Slam. Yeah. I mean, not in the music industry, but something even more important than that. And I thought, "I'll never do it. I'll never be part of anything that's, that's anything like this." And so we just came home and, and I thought, I, I didn't know how to manage, I didn't know what life was gonna look like.
But what I wasn't prepared for was that life would continue on. And within a few days, um, my middle daughter would tell me that her girlfriend was her girlfriend, and they would get married. And that would become a new journey that I was gonna, I was gonna... Something that I didn't expect. Right. That I was gonna start walking down and trying to f- that [00:14:00] God was gonna give me the chance to grow again in a whole nother area.
And we would go through all of those things, and then, you know, in the last couple of years, uh, now Indiana's 11 years old, and I just got remarried a year ago. Yeah,
Mike Glenn: but, but, but in between, there was this great adventure of you and Indiana. Yes, sir. I mean, you and mini-me . Yeah. Me and Indy. Traveling, traveling the world- Everywhere.
Yes, sir ... and, you know, in the truck and And, yeah.
Rory Fleek: Ev- We were, yeah, it was, that was a difficult thing for me, too, was w- when, when Joey passed away, I had been blessed to be part of this incredible love story and also this music career. And we had always signed our names. You know, people wanted a, an autograph, and it was Joey plus Rory and, and all of a sudden there was this moment where she had passed away and, and someone wanted my autograph, and I, I realized, [00:15:00] "I don't, I don't know what to do."
Yeah. Am I, do I keep signing her name? I don't know how to sign my own name. I, I, I, I didn't even know if I'm allowed to. And so over the next few years, there was quite a journey for me, uh, because God also, it, that wasn't the end of the story. Even storytelling, it opened the door for me to write a couple of memoirs that were very successful, then children's books.
And then I made, um, I f- got to direct a film and a documentary and do all sorts of things. And so in some ways the, um, the spotlight just continued to grow, and that was very difficult on me because I didn't know if it was okay Without her. I, you know, you've got your humanity says, "Am I capitalizing- Mm-hmm
on the loss of, of someone that you love?" So that was a whole other journey and, and Indiana and I were together by ourselves, um, you know, nine years, something like that. Um, [00:16:00] but it was, a- as difficult as it was, it was also amazing- Yeah ... that God knew I needed someone to care for, and it, it was a real gift.
And she didn't let you rest much. No, she didn't let me rest. She still doesn't.
Mike Glenn: Yes, sir. So- It's been great ... now, the fear we have is that once you know a love like you knew- Mm-hmm ... that you'll never know love like that again. And, and lo and behold, y- your future had been there the whole time.
Rory Fleek: It had been. I, when Joey passed away, a couple years later, w- I built a schoolhouse at our farm, a one-room schoolhouse, and we hired a teacher, a couple teachers, but this one teacher in particular who just stayed for the next six years teaching Indiana, Rebecca. And we were friends for a long, long time [00:17:00] and, but gosh, I don't know, two years ago, a year and a half, whenever it was, it, it became, uh, clear that perhaps there could be something more than that for her and for me, too.
And that was very difficult for me, mostly because I was actually pretty happy being by myself. Yeah. I, I was, I'd already been part of something that I didn't feel like I deserved to be part of. Mm-hmm. Who am I to ask for anything more? And I also had a difficult time because i- it felt like, you know, I'm, I'm a, a logical
I'm either gonna honor Joey- Mm ... or I'm gonna dishonor Joey. Mm-hmm. And I didn't know, c- can, can you walk that line? I don't, I didn't think that you could do it. Yeah. And so I, the romantic in me- You're right ... would just go, "Well, you know, I'll just, I'll be buried someday [00:18:00] next to her- Mm-hmm ... and we'll just simplify this thing and, and I've had enough love to last."
And a f- couple of things happened. One was God put it on my heart when I started to pray about it, and really this has been, this has been a new season of a, of a much deeper repentance and, and surrender for me over the last couple of years. And as I really said, "What do I do about this, God? What, what if...
I don't know if I... I'm okay. You know, perhaps it's not something that I need." Although I- Anyway, I, I surrendered it. And God's answer was this, "Perhaps it's not about you." "Perhaps someone else deserves love." Yeah. And in a second- Wow ... I knew who it was, and I, and it w- it turned it from inside, and what I felt- Right
was like, if there's someone that I'm supposed to give love to, it was so clear [00:19:00] who it was. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have to think about it. I, I knew that that's what I was gonna do. And, um, so we, we didn't really waste much time. We ended up getting engaged, and then we got married a year ago. And as, as God does what He does, it took about a week after we were married.
I was o- uh, working on the farm, and I, I was on the back of the farm somewhere and walking back up, coming to dinner or something. And I, and I just thought, "This is the great... I'm coming home to a family and, and a woman who loves me, and she needs me, and Indy has a mom." And I was... I needed it. I desperately needed it, and I didn't know I needed it.
I just had to stop thinking about myself. And around that time, right before we got married, I remember I was, I was trying to struggle through, "Is this okay?" And I, I didn't have anybody to really talk to about it. And our bus driver, Russell, who lives [00:20:00] here in Franklin, not far from here, his mama passed away, Ms.
Martha. And they asked us to come to the wedding, or to, they asked us to come to the funeral, and they had asked me to sing a song. And so me and Rebecca and Indy were sitting in the funeral service. It was a pretty full service. And they started playing some of Joey and I's songs. Mm-hmm. And I didn't know they were gonna be in there.
Mm-hmm. And I'm sitting next to this girl with Indiana- ... and they're playing When I'm Gone. Joey singing to me- Singing to you. Yeah ... from the grave. Yeah, that's right. Which is very comforting for a lot of people. And I didn't, I didn't know what to feel. I was like, I, am I, am I disgracing our, her memory? I didn't know what to feel.
And when it was over, we were walking out of there, and there were lots of people we didn't know, and there was a whole bunch of people just slowly moving out. And there was a lady in front of us, and she turned around to me and said, "That song. [00:21:00] That song, When I'm Gone. Oh, that's, that's beaut- so beautiful."
And I said, "Yes. It's really beautiful." And then she pointed to Rebecca and Indy, and she goes, "And that." This right here. Me, Rebecca, and Indiana. She goes, "So beautiful." And sh- I don't even know who she was. But she let me know they can both be beautiful at the same time. Right, yeah. And it just, it un- Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Th- th- this new beauty doesn't take any beauty- Yeah
away from, from the other But these
Rory Fleek: aren't things, uh, we learn in school. Uh, we, we just don't know how to handle them, and so, and that's, that's all that I've- Mm-hmm ... experienced is, is, uh, beauty on top of beauty, and it's been a real blessing.
Mike Glenn: Y- you, you and I know that, that the, the one thing that would surprise us in, in any church is the amount of heartache that's on every pew.[00:22:00]
Um, what, uh, what would you say to those folks who don't, who may not have the courage to, to tell anybody just how badly they're hurting or how hard life is right now?
Rory Fleek: I'd probably let them know that on both sides of them, there are people hurting just as bad. Mm. Maybe worse. Mm-hmm. And everything's gonna be okay, even if it isn't.
Mm-hmm. That's been very comforting for me- Yeah ... is I, I want one or the other. Right. That's right. Is everything's ever gonna ... But as it works out, it's always okay. Yeah. Even if it isn't okay. Yeah, yeah. You know, there's- Mm-hmm ... there's something on the other side of it, and you'll, you'll, you'll find yourself- Mm-hmm
when you think you can't, you'll never smile again- Right ... you will smile in a way you've never [00:23:00] smiled before.
Mike Glenn: Right. Yeah.
Rory Fleek: Yeah. And I think I would, if I, just off the cuff, I would just say, "You're not alone. Um, God's probably using whatever it is, whatever it is- Yeah ... all the things to draw you to him." Mm-hmm.
It's not pointless. That's right.
Mike Glenn: And as you were reminded earlier, it's not about you necessarily. It's not about you. That's ... So what's the next big, uh, Rory adventure?
Rory Fleek: Well, are you familiar, you, do you know the adventure I'm in right now? Do, can I fill you in on some of it? Yeah. Oh, you don't, you, you must not be watching the papers.
Well, I watch. I, I wa- I watch a lot, but, you know. No, it's okay. Uh, first off, I want you to know how much, uh, how grateful I am to get to sit and talk to you here today. I'm- Oh ... I, I, I, we, our relationship started with Joey and I sitting in one of those [00:24:00] many, many pews- Right ... and just being encouraged and inspired.
And, um- helped by you- Yeah, you're kidding me ... without, without you realizing it. And just to be, been friends. And then of course, you did Joey's funeral service. And then every time I get together with you through the years, we really just talk about books we're writing- That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah ... and, and that's been really fun for me.
Um, but this last year, the last couple years, I have ... Our story has taken another turn I never saw coming. Some of it's probably related to Rebecca and me getting remarried. But my, my little girl w- well, here's how I would, I would describe it on my own. I've, I had for y- you know, 25 years, I've had this feeling that God, God wants a, a [00:25:00] surrender from all of us, but me in particular.
I surrender all. I've, I've always loved that song, and I remember when I was pushing Indiana around in a stroller, and Joey's in the cancer treatment center in Chicago, and I, and just for two days, I'm just pushing her around this, this lake. And I'm just singing the ... I didn't grow up with those hymns, and so I pulled it up and I, I'm just, just meditating on that lyric and, and those words.
And I knew then, and I knew every moment after that, that there was an all in I surrender all that I was not capable of. Mm. That I had not gone anywhere near. I'd surrendered a good bit, but not all. Mm-hmm. And the best way to describe it is, uh, the, when I started writing songs again, the very first song I started writing last year was this song that said, "I'll do anything, Lord, that you want me to.[00:26:00]
As long as it ain't something I don't wanna do." "I'll go anywhere, Lord, you want me to go. Unless it's to a place that I don't know. Lord, I'll give anything, anything, anything, but everything to you." And I had this, I've, I had this gnawing feeling in my heart for years and years that He wants everything, and, and I'm either unwilling or unable to give it to Him.
Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Oh, you were singing that and I was thinking, "I've copyrighted that song."
Rory Fleek: We've, we've all- Yeah ... we've all lived it. But I fi- a couple years ago, I came to a place where I, I, I knew I, I was there. Mm-hmm. And so I, I did. I, I really surrendered everything, and I continue to do it. But in, in the [00:27:00] midst of that Some of the, you know, this has been a strange time.
Uh, everybody's divided out. Um, the people that we thought we were very close to- Right ... uh, turns out our worldviews are very, very different- Mm ... on a lot of those and we're- Mm ... and that's been difficult, 'cause I, I never saw any of that coming. Right. I'm not political, so I d- I didn't really think about that.
Well, one of the difficulties has been my older girls, um, their, their worldview's a good bit different than mine. And that's, that's been okay. We've kinda gotten through it, but underneath I think that's been sort of boiling. And somewhere along the line I, as God just continued to work on me and, you know, there are things in my life that I just didn't want in my life anymore.
We hadn't had a television in 10 years, but I wanted less of the, of pop culture influence and, and I didn't want it with Indiana anymore, and all, all that sort of stuff. And so when I, um, when I said, "Hey, I don't, I'm not comfortable with Indy, you know, [00:28:00] coming and spending the night with you girls anymore," um, I'm, I want
Mostly because they, they don't believe what I believe, and they l- they love Indiana very much, and it's not an unsafe thing. It's just our viewpoints are different. And so along those lines and everything else, things just went haywire and, um, my girls have just had a fit on, on the internet for the last year and a half or two years.
Yeah, that I'm
Mike Glenn: aware of. Yeah.
Rory Fleek: And, and, uh, it just cont- continues to go on. And, um, and I ... W- what it's given me is this incredible opportunity to find out how much your, uh, reputation means to you. Mm-hmm. Because it, it starts to get tarnished really, really quick, and I've, I've definitely come to realize, like, that doesn't mean anything to me.
It, it ... Because your reputation and our characters are not the same thing. But it's been, it's been a journey. There's [00:29:00] been a lot of difficulties, and at the same time I became part of a church. I, I, I've said this before in some other interviews. We're, we're master, Joey and I were, and then I continued for the next 10 years, nine years, master church hoppers.
Because, because, you know, I want everything. Mm. I want a speaker that's as good as you, but I don't want a 15,000 person church that's 45 minutes from my house. Yeah. I want you to be at Bethlehem Church- ... about a mile away. And I, and I want my nature. You know, I want hymns- Mm-hmm ... more than I want big- Mm-hmm
worship music and all these sort of things. And you're bouncing between, you know, trying this and trying that, and different ideas and different churches, and there's things that you love and you ... And then also the idea that, well, maybe it's not about you. Maybe you need to plug yourself in. Right. All of those things.
Cowboy church, um, we've, we've, you know, visited a [00:30:00] lots and lots of places. But during my last 20 years or so, it's also been a, a journey towards a more sustainable life. Mm-hmm. We've learned to grow our own food. Right. We've ... You know, we do home education. We had a home birth. Joey died at home. We're just, like, moving everything home.
And, and I started, for me, to see church a little bit differently, and I, I met some other folks that st- that figured out how to live in a covenant community- Mm-hmm ... to where they don't just get together on Wednesdays and Sundays. And, and I live on a farm- Mm-hmm ... in a, in an, in a very, you know, agricultural background, and the things that, the values that I have, like, they're all over every choice that we make.
And so I've s- I began to be around some folks and see they, they wanted something different than most people want- Right ... in America. And, and I saw [00:31:00] the fruit of it everywhere. Mm-hmm. And it was shocking to me, shocking to me. And I kept trying to be like, "Well, what is this? Like, where is this coming from?"
And I realized, you know, for me, they, they had, they had put to death a part of their selves that most of us struggle with, they, their pride that somehow they had found a way to truly, truly surrender. And anyway, that's all been a part of my journey. Well, in the midst of all that, um, it's been a strange thing for me because it turns out you can
I can join any church in America. I could be part of Brentwood Baptist- Mm-hmm ... World Outreach. Mm-hmm. I could be part of the Cowboy Church in Shelbyville, the Biker Church in Columbia. I can join the Catholic Church that has lots and- Yeah ... I was born and raised Catholic when I was young, that has lots and lots of difficulties.
But the moment you move into a, a realm where people are wanting [00:32:00] to do more of a covenant community and do life, and they're all participating in, in much more, it just, it ... the world just puts a cult label on it. Right. And, and it's been, that's been a strange thing. So even, even my girls, you know, they, they've been
All that has come at me, and, uh, that's been what, what's been the most interesting to me about it is I, for 25 years In my own Christian journey when I, I gave my heart to God, and I feel like this was the, I know the moment when I became a Christian. But then a year, a little over a year ago when I got baptized in Montana in the Yellowstone River, I knew it was a different thing.
Like I knew the old man was dying and a new man was coming up. And even someone before me earlier that day had told me, one of the older men, he said, "You know, you realize this might cost you everything." [00:33:00] And my journey, like no one ever said it would cost me anything. Right. And, and the, the truth is, Mike, it never cost me anything.
It never cost me anything. Mm-hmm. And I went down and I came back up, and it has been a journey. It is- Yeah. Yeah ... and it's been the first year that I've ever had that I really feel like my faith has cost me something. Mm-hmm. And even though it's been challenging, it's actually been, uh, fulfilling in another way because I- Yeah, it's,
Mike Glenn: it's Peter and John- Yeah
celebrating that they were counted- Yeah ... worthy to- Counted worthy.
Rory Fleek: That's right. Yeah. And so that's kind of this, you know, on top of everything else that, um, that I've been fortunate and unfortunate to be part of. I'm part of this thing that's going on right now that's, that's, um, that's ... It, it, those things all work out, work their way
Yeah. They're trying to work themselves out online. I'm not really [00:34:00] participating- Yeah, yeah ... in much of it, but there's a lot of that discussion that's going on. And, um, again, you know, I just feel like this, I'm playing a part, I'm getting to play a part in something that's bigger than me. So are you part of a house church movement now?
It's not a house church movement. Yeah? It's a, it's a group, um ... There was a, some folks in Texas that they've been doing this for like four generations. Yeah. And there's, uh, 1,500 of them. There's smaller ones in Montana and Virginia and Wisconsin and, you know, all, some all over the world, Israel, all over the place.
Mm-hmm. And it's just, it's just a, it's not a house church movement because it's more of a, it would be a more of a back to the home. Like if you take- Right ... responsibility of all of the majority of what you do- Mm-hmm ... in your lives. It's more of a back to, not even a back to the land movement, more of a back to the home movement.
And it's been really, it's been really wonderful. Mm. My family and I- Well, one of
Mike Glenn: the things that we're finding out with all [00:35:00] of these transitions and everything in church- Mm-hmm ... and, and the struggles of the church to meet the post, the challenges of the postmodern, post-truth community is, uh, the, the emphasis on covenant groups, small groups House churches and, uh, and, and this is where a lot of, uh, uh, of Christians are now finding meaningful connection-
Rory Fleek: Mm-hmm
Mike Glenn: is in these off-the-grid. And that's why I'm always suspect, well, you know, Christians are this or that and, uh, because these people aren't being counted- Mm ... in any kind of survey or religious, you know, they're not a m- a, quote, "a member"- Right ... of any church who'd be reporting to those surveys, so. Right. It's really, it's really interesting, and I think very hopeful to see how, how, how, uh, how the Spirit is calling his people, so.
Rory Fleek: I do, too. I'm, I'm- Yeah ... really excited about this as, as an option that's out there. Yeah. Because I've been in the homesteading move. We have thousands of people who [00:36:00] come every year to our festival every June, and all those people are ... Most of those folks are learning to grow some food and take part in, in, um, in, uh, just being part of the soil- Mm-hmm
and, and, uh, learning all sorts of thing, from homeschooling to whatever. But what's been, what's been clear is most of them are actually longing for something even more than that. Yes, the connection. And it's connection and community. Yeah. And, and there has to ... There, I think there needs to be some more options than what we, what we've- Agreed
experienced- There's a reason- ... in the church
Mike Glenn: world ... Baskin-Robbins has 31 flavors of ice cream. Mm-hmm. Not everybody likes the same flavor. Yeah. And everybody, not everybody needs it. Yeah. How best do people find you?
Rory Fleek: Well, I have a website. There's only a one page, or there's one, uh, button on it right now. I need to work on it.
Maybe by the time you share this, roryfeek.com. .com. Yes, sir. That's, that's probably the best way to find me. Mm. And [00:37:00] then we've, uh, we, our farm is called Hardison Mill, so you can go to hardisonmill.com, and you can see the festival- Yeah ... and, and some of the other things- I'll, I'll look into it ... that are going on there.
Yes, sir.
Mike Glenn: Well, he's Rory Feek. I'm Mike Glenn, and you have been part of the Engage Church Network, and we are glad that you have joined us for this podcast. Thanks for being with us.
Thanks for tuning into the Engage Church Network podcast. We exist to train healthy and skilled leaders for congregations throughout Middle Tennessee. If today's episode helped you, share it with a fellow leader, and don't forget to visit engagechurchnetwork.com for more ways to grow.
