Chris Brown on Why the Local Church Matters
This episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast features an inspiring conversation with Chris Brown: pastor of The Well in Columbia, TN, former Ramsey Personality, and leader passionate about the next generation. Chris once held the kind of role many would envy—speaking on big stages, shaping curriculum, and being part of the nationally recognized Ramsey Solutions team. But even in the middle of success, he felt a deeper call from God: to invest in the local church. That call led him and his family to Columbia, Tennessee, where a small youth group in his living room eventually grew into a thriving church led by students and fueled by a vision for reaching the next generation.
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Chris Brown: I had no idea it could be this fun. I thought I was just trying to be good enough. Right. And I was trying to behave the right way and be accepted in the circle. And, and so now they just come like Pastor
Mike Glenn: Chris. It's, it's the difference between hitting the notes and playing the music.
Chris Brown: Yes. Come on. That's a good analogy.
I like that. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So what happens in your life? I mean, you, you have got the gig everybody else wants. I do. Okay. You are, uh, you, you were a Ramsey personality. Mm-hmm. With our Bud Day Ramsey. Yeah. You know, doing the books, doing the podcast, you know, part of all of that Ramsey machine mm-hmm. That we are familiar with around here.
[00:01:00] And, uh, we, we both know and, and love Dave. Mm-hmm. A, a, a great deal and you go off and start a church and it's like we're all wondering No, no, no. We who are in the church, we wanna be where you are. And, and, and you're leaving that to go, to go start a church. Yeah. So how in the world did you end up in Columbia, Tennessee?
Mm-hmm. Uh, starting a
Chris Brown: church. Yeah. It's a, you know, it, I do consider both of them ministry. You know, one is a little bit more of a Monday through Friday ministry and one's a more of a, a Monday through Friday plus Saturday and Sunday Ministry, uh, seven days a week. But, um, I see 'em both as ministry, but mm-hmm.
I, I think what it came down to was I really do feel called to the local church. Mm-hmm. Um, my role at Ramsey was so, so stinking fun. Mm-hmm. Uh, my time there was so valuable. Uh, the things that I got to do and the things I got to be a part of, and even the impact through curriculum or Right. Impact through, uh, you know, big stage events, um, great life experience.
And what I learned from Dave and what I learned from the board [00:02:00] and, and through their amazing leaders was just, uh. Just incredibly valuable, but it came down to the end of the day. I had to wrestle with. Chris, I, I've called you to the local church. Right. And the way I justify it in the beginning is my role was very support the local church oriented at Ramsey Solutions.
Mm-hmm. And as, as I got just through time, it got a little bit more of Chris just, you know, going to events, citywide events, and Right. And, uh, which were so fun and exhilarating, great for my ego. Um, but I, I felt this like the void of, I I, this is not local church oriented. Right. This is great. There's nothing wrong with it.
Uh, it's just not my calling. And so I had to be true to that. Mm-hmm. So next thing you know, I'm a lead pastor in Columbia.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. But you didn't start as a, as a lead pastor of a church mission. There was a. Uh, for lack of a better term, there's a youth group. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Uh, you, you kind of started the, well, kind of backwards.
Yeah.
Chris Brown: Yeah. Well, not, not on purpose. I think it's just, uh, you [00:03:00] know, my kids' age goes into this, right. You know, my kids, uh. I'm gonna go back not four years. Our, our church is four years old, but I'll go back six years. Uh, my kids were, um, I dunno, somewhere in middle school, high school, I'm getting, I have no idea now, but, um, they were younger and, uh, we were new to Columbia.
We had moved from Franklin, Tennessee, and, uh, we, they were kind of intimidated to go to a youth group. Mm-hmm. And so I said, you know what? Let's do this with your new school. I don't, I don't want you to feel like you have to in, you know, get entrenched in a new school and a new youth group. If you get some kids together from school and bring 'em to the house.
I don't know. Six. I think we gave 'em a bare minimum of like eight kids. Right. We'll just treat that as a youth group and we'll, we'll lead them and, and pour into them and they'll be like your little youth group. Right. Nothing. Didn't even think at This is when I worked at Ramsey, when this was happening, right?
Yeah. I didn't think, I wasn't thinking about launching a church at all. Well, those six or eight turned into like, I dunno, 10 or 16? 12. 16. 16 rotating. Mm-hmm. And, um. And we just really, really loved them well, and loved spending time with them. We got, we just fell in love [00:04:00] with that age group. Well, we, we did build some influence with that demographic.
And so when we launched the church, uh, there was a time where we had to like, build out the building, and the building was not ready yet for, for the, uh, the critique. The critique of an adult's eye. That's right. But the forgiveness of a youth group. We were in this building that was, I'm just gonna go ahead and say far from safe.
Yeah. But we were in there doing like broken office chair relays and, uh, we were doing, I mean, these weird games that were so unsafe. Um, but uh, that grew into like 16 and 18 and 30, then 40. And so we had a 60% youth group before we launched the church. Mm-hmm. So it was kind of funny. So, uh, when we were about.
To, I don't know, maybe five weeks out from launching the church with adults. Uh, we asked them, Hey, would you, would you, I forget what we slogan, like pick six. Mm-hmm. Or two, six, or they're willing to, for six weeks they'd be the ones who did all the volunteering. 'cause we didn't have any adults. Right. I didn't do a whole like, core group and like, everything you're supposed to do in church planning, [00:05:00] uh, I had probably like 10 adults in my pocket.
For some of the higher level leadership.
Mike Glenn: Okay. But were those adults connected to you or to their children? Ed to you? Their children. Their children, okay.
Chris Brown: Yeah. Anybody who loves my child. Well, yes. I love, yeah. I don't know if they actually trusted me yet, but they trusted the, what I did with my, with their kids.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there was kind of indirect loyalty there at the time, or I don't know if loyalty's the right word, but they were just, they were willing to in that first three months or whatever. Mm-hmm. Just to, to, to pour in. So yeah, the, the church literally launched and was ran by. Teenagers. The only place I had adults is when, like a legal, you know, like in a classroom, right?
I need to have someone over 18 or, but they were out there the first time guest tent. They were the ones that were greeting at doors. They were the ones that were checking kids in. They were, they were running the church like legitimately. And today we're four years later and, and you know, we're going back to school and, um, we'll probably be around 2 40, 250 youth, you know, youth in it.
So we're having a blast. They're so fun. They are the heartbeat of our church. Yeah. Yeah. [00:06:00] So what, uh, what happens when adults show up and it's all teenagers? Well, this past weekend it was funny 'cause uh, somehow it came up. Oh, it was Backpack Sunday. Yeah. We were giving away backpacks and uh, uh, I don't know when everyone was listening to this, but at this time of a recording this, it was backpack Sunday on, uh, this last Sunday.
And Holly, just ironically my wife, uh, said, Hey, would anyone that's, uh, in middle school or high school stand up? And then she said, if you're a young adult, stand up. And it was, it was the first time I actually got a visual. Of how young we are. Right. And it was, uh, I'd say 40% of the auditorium stood up. Wow.
And they were all college age or younger. Wow. And it's funny 'cause Holly and I are 47 and 43, and uh, if you were to look, if you were to take a median age. Of our church. I actually think it's our age because we do have a bunch that are forties. Mm-hmm. We have a bunch that are fifties. We have a bunch that are sixties, even seventies.
Um, but it's, it's 40%. Uh, yeah. And I, I think our, our congregation loves it. It's fueled our church. It's, uh, provided a [00:07:00] ton of vision. Um, uh. I think everybody really, really loves it. It's whenever I cast vision about the next generation, I'm not asking for an applause, but an applause happens. And we're actually not a church that's like applauding me every five seconds.
That's not our vibe. But whenever I talk about next gen man, our place goes nuts. Mm-hmm. So, and, and they're, they're the first ones to do everything, every time. I'm, I'm stretching everyone theologically. I stretch everyone theologically with a maybe a new revelation or Right. Something that's newer to our con congregation.
I start it with the youth. 'cause of the youth, you don't have to D-Teach before you teach, right? So it's so fun. They grab onto it. They actually are leading our church. They're going places theologically first before our adults do. I don't know. It's just so much fun.
Mike Glenn: I think I remember reading something like A Little Child Shall lead them or something.
I think. I think it's somewhere, somewhere, somewhere. Somebody wrote that down somewhere. There's this old book somewhere. Yeah, that's right. With that, uh, what were the, uh, uh, the challenges of teaching and training young adults? Mm-hmm. [00:08:00] At that scale,
Chris Brown: that fast. Yeah. One of the biggest challenges was, uh, reaching different.
Types of teens. So in the beginning when we had 60, we were very heavily focused towards the athlete. Mm-hmm. And so if we had a weakness, if I were to go pick it apart and really have some regrets, um, that are artists or, uh, one's a little bit more introverted or one's a little bit shy or insecure and we're all insecure, but something where I just saw them in the corner, couldn't really engage, didn't really wanna play dodgeball, didn't wanna play basketball tournament.
And so we were really weak on that. That's been a challenge. So we have been intentional to have an art station and a video game station and foosball and, and uh, ping pong and, um, just a place where you can do arts and crafts and uh, a place if you just wanna be social, a karaoke area. So we've created some more areas so we can be, uh, that's been really hard 'cause we, Holly and I are naturally, we played a lot of sports in, in high school, so we n just naturally navigate.
My kids are athletes, so we did a poor [00:09:00] job with that, but that's been one big one. Um, another one is financial. Uh, it's been a big strain to a lot of churches say that they value youth and next generation, but if you look at their budget.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Chris Brown: They're being hypocritical. They don't Right. It's like 0.01% of their budget and you're like, you do not value it.
Yeah. Right. You value where your money goes. And so for us, we put a lot of money into it. Well, the ba bad side of that is a lot of the youth that are coming don't tithe. Well, they don't tithe. Yeah. And actually we, we've become an outreach where their families don't tithe. They drop their kids off. Right.
Two hours later they come pick 'em up. Mm-hmm. Because this is a great thing. Or they're every, every, all the kids want to go to it. But it was easy for their kids to jump social circles and like. Jump wherever they were going to church before and join this youth group. 'cause they, they can still go to that church on the weekends.
Um, but parents, you know, even if they do want to go to our church, they're not gonna leave a 20 year French circle mm-hmm. To like, jumps churches because of preference. Mm-hmm. Or mm-hmm. Because that's where the kid goes. We've been able to reach the teens really, really well, but it's been a little bit more [00:10:00] challenging.
And I love that if they're loyal to their church mm-hmm. And they've been there for a year, they stay there. That's great. But it has created a financial burden. Yeah. Quite a bit actually.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Yeah. What surprised you outta that process?
Chris Brown: Well, I think, um, one of the biggest surprises is the few that get really jacked up about next gen.
They're willing to, they're willing to invest. Mm-hmm. So some of our, uh, bigger checks, if you will, have been around, Hey, I want to, like, when we got a six figure checking like our. Fourth month of the church. Mm-hmm. That went towards a student center in the back. I just referenced, uh, ping pong tables.
Mm-hmm. Karaoke. That was one person that stepped up and gave a six figure check to say, I cast the vision for a student center in the back. Mm-hmm. This is when we had 60 people and they, I cast a vision of 2 20, 2 50 and, uh, they're like, I'm all in. Here's a six figure check. And we built out that area and here we are too.
So it ha So I think it surprised me. How compelling that is from a vision standpoint. Right. Yeah. I didn't go for that. I wasn't a strategy. It's who I am. It was natural, but that's [00:11:00] been a nice surprise. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Well, what, what we talk about at Engaged Church Network is one, knowing your community. Mm-hmm.
Knowing your church and knowing your community, and knowing in the community there is this, um, not mm-hmm. Demographically of young adults, teenagers, yeah. Yeah. Uh, who need to be reached. And once you begin to reach that, then the resources flow because you're doing some kind of good. Yep. And the community sees that.
And some these members, not members who support who, who will support the work because they see the life change happening. Mm-hmm.
Chris Brown: Yeah. They've really gotten behind, not, it's not really numbers 'cause we don't really talk members a whole lot. Mm-hmm. I know this is kind of a leadership space here, so I feel like people, there's an interest in like you guys being able to like actually visualize what I'm talking about.
Mm-hmm. But, uh, what has. Been motivating and compelling to the donor. Has been the stories. Mm-hmm. And the life change. Oh yeah. Countless baptisms and, uh, miracles. Literally like someone got shot 11, one of our guys got shot 11. One of our students a senior, got shot 11 [00:12:00] times, was in the hospital forever. And, uh, we prayed like crazy as a youth group.
I didn't even take to the whole church. I wanted the youth to own this. Mm-hmm. And they owned it. And they prayed like crazy. Can I tell you that, that kid lived, and not only did he live, he was not saved. He was, he was semi involved in gang activity and, uh. He, uh, showed up at the next Easter, got saved, got baptized, and now he serves at the church and he still has bullets in him.
Like he can't play basketball. He can't, he just walks around and, uh, and that's just, I got story after story, after story, right? And when I, when I tell people about that story, not even with the like, motive to like raise funds. They're just like, you watch them, they lock in. They're, uh, mm-hmm. How can I invest in this?
Right. Especially when it comes to like camps and stuff. I'm like, how does a, you know, 3-year-old church take a hundred people to camp? We can't afford this. I, I, I make five phone calls.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Chris Brown: And it's like, sure, 10 grand, 15 grand, 20 grand. Mm-hmm. You're like, and it just happens. And I think people are really compelled, they know that our, our future's in their hands, [00:13:00] and they're not the, they're not the, uh, next generation.
They're the now generation. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm watching them, they're leading their schools. I'm watching them bring teachers. They're out evangelize, evangelizing, they're literally changing their ball teams. They're changing their classrooms, they're changing the hallways. And, uh, for me, I just believe in them.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Chris Brown: Yeah. I think there's the one thing that's like, I, they, they can detect when someone says they believe in them and they can detect what you actually do.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. You know? This, uh, you know, somebody was telling me that this is the most marketed two generation in history. Yes. Which gives them really, really sensitive, uh, radars.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and if you're BSing them Baptist stuff. Yeah. If, if, uh, if, if you're well played, that's a veteran right there, folks.
Chris Brown: That's a veteran.
Mike Glenn: So they, they're they are real fast. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, to, to, to call you out on that. Mm-hmm. And then they have no problems telling you. Tell me the story that broke, that, that broke your heart, that made you leave.
There's always that, that, that, [00:14:00] that, that thing of, okay, I, I, I know this now, now that I know it, I can't unknow it.
Chris Brown: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. What's his story?
Chris Brown: Well, I really do believe that, uh, we've got a hurting, uh, a hurting world. Mm-hmm. Um, that there is a lot of feelings of rejection, a lot of feelings of abandonment, a lot of feelings of insecurity, unworthy, um.
Uh, I think no matter how polished it looks, even if it's in the upper class, I think there's a quiet hurt and angst and looking for answers that my Ramsey position was a little bit more, um, financial.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Uh,
Chris Brown: a little bit of life, but a really financial mm-hmm. Um, stewardship space. And I just felt the story behind the financial behavior is actually a worldview.
And a perspective that is shaping the way that you spend, save and invest, right? And I think I wanted to get more to the heart behind finances that I feel like I could reach them in church. Mm-hmm. Um, and [00:15:00] I also saw that after nine 11 back years ago, how the country really clinging to God. Mm-hmm. And got to church and I, I just felt this in my spirit like.
This, like pre awakening, I won't say revival, I'm not gonna go that far, but like a pre awakening that was kind of in our midst and I wanted to be on the front lines of that. I felt like there's an inquisitiveness, there's an, an openness even with changes in leadership mm-hmm. At the top of our nation. I feel like there's an openness to Christianity right now.
Um, I wanted to be on the front lines of that, so I kind of sensed all that was coming. Um, and I, I'm like, I wanna be part of that. So I don't know if it broke my heart as much as it was. I saw it all around me and was like, I wanna be part of the solution.
Mike Glenn: You know, folks ask me if I'm optimistic or pessimistic.
Mm-hmm. Because there are certain numbers that will lead you to be pessimistic. Yeah. Yeah. My response is I'm more optimistic now than ever.
Chris Brown: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Because all the questions are Jesus questions. Yeah. Identity, purpose, meaning, hope, all of those are Jesus questions. Yeah. [00:16:00] And, and, and if. Anytime in our life it should be.
Now that we are, we are bold in the proclamation Yeah. Of the gospel. And, and, and how that, that's, that is lived
Chris Brown: out. Yeah. I'd say that probably the, the two, two things we teach at our church, to the adults and to the students the most, we're gonna be in two veins the most. And you're talking about a big Bible with lots of topics.
Mm-hmm. The two that we hit the most are the goodness of God. Like the love of God. Mm-hmm. Like that to you, to form your behavior. So instead of behavior modification, we kind of pull up 30,000 feet. Like you've gotta know that God is for you. Mm-hmm. And that you have a loving father who wants what's best for you.
Uh, and the second thing is identity. What you just hit on. Mm-hmm. Uh, the fact that to know who you really are, this, this spending behavior, it's not you. Yeah. Uh, this Friday night behavior, it's not you. Mm-hmm. This is the way you're talking to your spouse. That's not you. Here's who you really are. Mm-hmm.
You're a child of God. You are a masterpiece. You're wonderfully made. And to be able to let them know that, and I, you know. There are some critique out there that's just a lot of positive [00:17:00] positivity. I'm like, you know what accuse me of that. How's behavior modification working for you? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so if I think if I can get them with the proper identity.
This weekend I spoke on Pride. Mm-hmm. And that was kinda a hard one for all of us to swallow. So we, we will hit the tough subjects of like, here's how pride shows up. But guys, I like, if you really know about what God wants for you and you know your identity in him, you're not prideful. You're, you're a vessel being used by him.
Yeah. You don't, don't have to fake it. Yeah, just so we're really big on like, you know, um, you can come here, you can be messy. And we do reach the 50, 60 year Christian, but we also reach the guy that's, you know, was in a gang fight last night mm-hmm. Or in the club and I, and they're all sitting next to each other.
It's beautiful. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. I tell, uh, the best way we, you know, Jeannie and I had twin boys. The, the best way that we disciplined Chris and Craig was to sit down with them and say, we have literally known you before you were born. Mm-hmm. We have the sonogram pictures. Yeah. Yeah, we picked [00:18:00] you out before you were born.
Now you didn't get the 3D ones though. Yeah. 'cause you're kind of way back there that, that's right. Yeah. We just got the old black and white, you know, the old Polaroids kind of thing. But I can't
Chris Brown: believe they had them then. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: But, but so, uh, um, we've known you, this is who you are. Yeah. This behavior doesn't match.
Mm-hmm. Who we know you to be. Yeah.
Chris Brown: Yeah. And when they get that realization, the light bulb goes off. They're like, I had no idea it could be this fun. I thought I was just trying to be good enough. Right. And I was trying to behave the right way and be accepted in the circle. And, and so now they just come like Pastor
Mike Glenn: Chris.
It's, it's the difference between hitting the notes and playing the music.
Chris Brown: Yes. Come on. That's a good analogy. I like that. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. So it's actually been a lot of fun pastoring this way. Mm-hmm. Instead of feeling like I've gotta micromanage everyone's behavior, I just gotta teach them a worldview and a perspective that's biblical.
then, I think we get the desired behaviors When I'm not around, not just when I am around. because Jesus is always [00:19:00] around.So it's like I want them to be inspired by their identity. Not dictated by my lecture.
Mike Glenn: You know? Yeah. So, so what's the future for the Well,
Chris Brown: you know, it's funny, this weekend coming up is Vision Weekend, and so I've kind of been putting those thoughts together and I'm not really as, as crazy about like, uh, controlling the what mm-hmm.
As far as what it looks like, the strategy. Mm-hmm. But I'm very, very, um, mindful of the how. Which is our values. Mm-hmm. And the why, um, our vision of what we're going after. And for me, it's just thy kingdom come, his will be done on earth as it is in heaven. What does that look like? Uh, for me, I want to create, um, not 5,000 attendees.
Right. The great commission wasn't for us to go out and, and build a crowd, build a church, attendees. Mm-hmm. It was to build disciples, or we like to say Christ-like. Kingdom leaders. Mm-hmm. That's a code for disciples. Mm-hmm. But, uh, for me, the future is, is whether it's the 18 and under crowd [00:20:00] or it's adults, uh, I wanna make, I want Christlike Kingdom leaders.
That is my, that's my, that's my why. Mm-hmm. That's why I wake up every morning. And the how is our values, how just trying to like shape culture. We're still trying to figure out who we are. This will drive everyone listening nuts. To this day, we're four years old, actually four years old. Next weekend. We still don't have a vision, a mission statement or values, and uh, I'm relaying them this weekend for the first time.
Mike Glenn: So
Chris Brown: now, now I would
Mike Glenn: challenge you Yeah. In that you don't have 'em written down. Come on. Yeah.
Chris Brown: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: But you have them. Yep. Yep. Because, because I've known you enough, I've known them well enough. Mm-hmm. I have known members of your congregation enough. Mm-hmm. That there are certain things that you talk about.
There are certain ways that you do, mm-hmm. That everybody affiliated with, you know? Yeah. Yeah. You just hadn't written '
Chris Brown: em down anywhere. Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly. And some of that is just kind of like, you know, treading water, trying to keep up with the [00:21:00] growth. That's right. Yeah. Short staffed. And I think a lot of our listeners know what I'm talking about, you know, uh, just really just busting my can.
I'm like, okay, that's something that can hold off. Hold off, hold off. Yeah. But my prayer is, is when I go to deliver that this Sunday, that they go, yes, that's who we are. Mm-hmm. That's who we've been. That's you just finally put words to it. Right. My, my prayer is that there's not any like head tilts of like, huh.
That's not who we're I've, I've never heard that before. Yeah, that will be tragic. That will be tragic. But yeah, so my future is to, I just want to be obedient. Uh, Holly and I have put ourselves in a financial position, you know, again, kudos to Ramsey doing that for 20 years where I don't feel like I need.
And
Mike Glenn: you were, there were 20 years.
Chris Brown: Well, what's that? No, no, no, no. I followed Dave for 20 years. Oh, okay. Yeah. I was there four. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I, I've followed Ramsey for as long as I can remember. And, and you know, you put, you put, uh, his, you know, his principles to work for that long. They work, get, get
Mike Glenn: an envelope.
Yes. Yes.
Chris Brown: So I'm not, I'm not like, desperate that it has to be a certain size Yeah. [00:22:00] Or a certain, I don't, I just love that freedom of like, wherever the Holy Spirit leads, I'm, I'm just being obedient, trying to stay outta the way. Mm-hmm. And trying to keep a humble posture of like, God, what do you have next for me?
And I'm not saying that to be cliche on a podcast. I, I think if you were to pull my staff together and, and ask, and that's, that's who we are mm-hmm. Is just, um, just stay outta the way. Uh, don't do anything stupid and just be obedient when he leads. And I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't want to put a, I don't wanna put a what on it, you know?
And what it becomes, um, I want to be a, a tower of refuge for our city, our county for that. Okay. You know what? I'm hurting. I want to go there. They're gonna accept me, they're gonna love on me, and they're gonna minister to me with excellence, not performance, but like, they're gonna care for me and my my family, and they're gonna love on me.
And you know what? When I go and I engage with God there, I'm actually gonna have fun also. Mm-hmm. You don't, it doesn't have to be either. Or like, let's have fun, let's have a blast. So we're very casual. A very, and if somebody happens to be watching this online, like I'm, I'm [00:23:00] just a casual guy, super chill.
Like I'm not taking myself too seriously. So. We're just having a blast. I'm actually trying not to call it church, 'cause that puts me in this like. Professional, like
Mike Glenn: psychological space? Well, especially in this area. Yeah. Where there is so much, uh, professional Christianity that's feels like in the greater national area, what feels like, I don't like the way that feels.
Yeah. And so
Chris Brown: for me, I'm like, I'm a, I'm a a a what? I obviously, we've got a lot of growth here, but God, I feel like I'm a godly husband, a godly father. Mm-hmm. And I wanna serve my city well. And so I went and signed a lease on a building and uh, here we are. Yeah. And it's like, I just wanna love my city. And it can be that simple.
Uh, I don't need, yeah. I don't need
Mike Glenn: a formula. Yeah. No, it's, it is not hard, Uhuh, it's, it's not easy. Yeah. Right. But it doesn't have to be complicated, but it doesn't have to be complicated. Yeah. It's simple, but not necessarily, not necessarily easy. Mm-hmm. One of the things I tell people is that, uh, when you, when you come to the church, uh, uh, God will give you a new family.
Mm-hmm. Especially if you've grown up in a broken home or, [00:24:00] or like stuff, but God will give you new parents. So, so how many children? Do you and Holly have? Oh, man. Okay. That's a lot. I don't have any biological daughters, but I have lots of daughters.
Chris Brown: Yeah. You know, you know what's funny? Somebody called me, uh, a spiritual father one time, and I, I went down this rabbit hole of researching spiritual father online.
Mm. And if you do that, this is a polarizing subject. There are 50% that really get mad when you use the word spiritual father, because we only have one father. Right. And he's enough. Right saying that we have spiritual fathers here on Earth is saying that he's not enough. I'm like, come on. That's like plain semantics here.
But I do feel like they look up to me like a dad. Yeah. I would say 75% of 'em. And that, that sounds strong. It sounds like I'm exaggerating. 75% of them have a broken home. Right. Or a dad that is only into their kids' performance and their SAT score. Mm-hmm. And where they go to college mm-hmm. And doesn't really actually care for them.
Like care for them, like daily, like love on them. Mm-hmm. Build [00:25:00] them up, disciple them, might even be 85%. Um, and so they're leaning on me more than their dad. Mm-hmm. And of course I'm trying to like to redirect that. Right, right. It's actually, when I say me, it's actually not me anymore. 'cause we have a. A volunteer, um, a volunteer team of 60 that lead those two 40.
Right. So, and many of them are really, really godly dads. Um, so they're looking to all of them. And I've kind of turned into the grandpa. Mm-hmm. Uh, not the dad. So now there's actually a bunch of spiritual dads that are running around taking people out to breakfast and taking them to the lake mm-hmm. And like spending time with them doing bible studies.
Right. Um, but, uh, yeah, I would say I, it feels like right now to answer your question. I feel like I have about 300 kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 'cause we kinda wrote probably maybe four or 500 rotating within the month. Right. That. It, it's, uh, it's a lot of weight. Yeah. But it's a, it's a weight. Yeah. One
Mike Glenn: of the things people need to realize is that when you say you, you're the pastor of a 250 member church that's really closer to 800.
[00:26:00] Yeah. Yeah. By the time the first and third Sunday Baptist and the second, fourth Sunday Baptist, you know, there's a lot of people that come through. That's so true. And I, I've got some that say
Chris Brown: I've, I've been gonna the well for years. I'm like, I have no clue who you are, or, I've never seen you. I've never seen you.
Yeah. You probably went
Mike Glenn: twice, three times. You're crazy. So, or, or maybe watch you on YouTube. Yes. Exactly. And then, and then and would consider you to, to to be their pastor. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So gimme the two or three things that, that, um, you know, pick picking on our buddy, uh, Ramsey. Mm-hmm. He's big into leadership, big into the, the financial freedom and all of that.
Mm-hmm. So what are the handful of things that Mark success for Chris Brown? Hmm.
Chris Brown: Wow. And you mentioned Ramsey. I immediately went to, like, how I see him and how I value him as a leader, and, and he actually is a great, um, model for me. Yeah. The things that I would like. Yeah. So people ask me like, what, what do you, what do you, what do you think Ramsey's biggest strength is?
And they think, I'm gonna say finances. And it's like fifth or sixth on my list. [00:27:00] He's a great, he's a, like a amazing grandpa, an amazing parent, an amazing leader, an amazing marketer. Hello.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Chris Brown: Right. I mean, I think he could sell that trash can over there in
Mike Glenn: incredible convener.
Chris Brown: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: He, he can
Chris Brown: make a couple
Mike Glenn: of phone
Chris Brown: calls.
Yeah. And everything happens. Yeah. He's a curator of community. He's, and then, then there's finance. And so for me, I, I want that to be like my, when you're saying, what are the things that make up Chris Brown, I, I. I don't want it to be like the end thing that I do. Yeah. I don't want it to be like, you're a good teacher.
Mm-hmm. Or you're a good preacher. Or, uh, for me, I really do feel in the fivefold ministry, I'm, I'm, I'm naturally wired. It's not even, it's unmistakable. I'm a shepherd and that's what I am first. Mm-hmm. And then. It's amazing that I taught and, and taught for Ramsey. 'cause I'm actually not a good teacher or speaker, but, uh, um, I'd have a lot of people at my church that would say, don't speak that over yourself.
But anyway, another topic I, I think I want to just, my legacy would be that somebody who, um. Luke 6 31 says, you know, treat others like you'd like to be treated like I did the next [00:28:00] right thing. I, I think whenever I had a chance to go right or left or mm-hmm. Or to make a decision, I made the decision that was honoring to God.
I was obedient. Mm-hmm. Even launching a church, it was on a run. Mm-hmm. And I was listening to a song called Rattle by Elevation Church, and it was like these, uh, uh, dead bones come alive. Mm-hmm. And it was all about like, you know, like he's still got, and I, I. Scared the mess outta me. I've always been a number two, I've always been a number three.
Mm-hmm. Like what? I was at Ramsey, like kinda lifting up his brand right. And lifting up Ramsey's solutions and making him, uh, some good money. And, and I was like, I, I've always been that guy. And it's like, and it was his time. It's like, Chris, no, it's your turn to, mm-hmm. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not my turn.
And so I think just being willing to do the hard things and, um. Uh, being willing to, I, I guy's a guy who really was Holy Spirit inspired and Holy Spirit led, and, um, that would be like my biggest legacy, I think. Mm-hmm. He led his kids well. Um, he served his city well. He led his wife well. Um. He was very uneducated and probably got a five on [00:29:00] his SAT, but man did he overperform for his intelligence.
Now listen, now listen,
Mike Glenn: you've just told us about a church full of people who don't know who they are, who question their abilities. You don't feel good about themselves, and you spent the last five minutes of this podcast talking about you're not a good teacher, but you obviously are. And now you just, you know, it's amazing how, uh, so may do you listen to anything you preach.
Right?
Chris Brown: That's dude, that's, he just called me out. I didn't know I was sitting with Dr. Phil. Y'all, I'm right. I'm right here. Eyeball to eyeball with Dr. Phil. Just read my mail, man. Brutal. I'm sure there's no preachers listening that have any
Mike Glenn: problems with this either. Oh, no, no, no. In fact, I was talking with a group of guys the other day and they said, you know how you about a good sermon?
I said, I gave up. Yeah. Trying to figure out if it was a good sermon or not. Yeah. Because I would come with what this, this sermon is a work of art. It needs to be under glass somewhere. Right. You know? And there would be crickets. Right. Crickets the way it is. [00:30:00] Nothing would be said about that sermon. Yep.
And I would walk out apologizing to God and say, okay, I'll go back to law school. I'm just, I have totally misread this thing. Right. This is the worst sermon ever. And people would stomp me in the gar and, and, and in the grocery store, you know, they say, Hey man, do you know when you said that? But that, my wife and I have been talking about that all week.
And you're going, I, I, I just, I just gave up. Right. That is so true. That's so true. I've got the same story.
Chris Brown: I just, the more insecure I am that I talk, the more good feedback I get. Yeah. That's weird stuff. That's
Mike Glenn: good stuff. Mm-hmm. This is the Engaged Church Network podcast and we're grateful you have joined us.
This is Chris Brown. He is a great guy, pastor of the Well in Columbia. If you're in that area, that'd be a great church. We'd be checking out this weekend. Thanks for being with us.
Thanks for tuning into the Engaged Church Network [00:31:00] Podcast. We exist to train healthy and skilled leaders for congregations throughout Middle Tennessee. If today's episode helped you share it with a fellow leader and don't forget to visit engage church network.com for more ways to grow.
