Would Anyone Notice If You Stopped Coming to Church? | Stephanie Prince
What’s the difference between being welcomed at church and actually belonging? Stephanie Prince, Connections Minister at The Church at Station Hill, joins Mike Glenn to talk about helping people move from guests to active members of the church family. Drawing from her own unexpected call to ministry and her research on belonging, Stephanie shares why people need to be known, missed, and needed, and how churches can identify gifts, develop leaders, and give ministry back to the people.
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Mike Glenn: [00:00:00] Stephanie, you and I have known each other, gosh 10, 12 years, something like that.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, um, and it has been a, a real kick, uh, to be able to, to watch your life and your growth, uh, from where you started, where we first met you, until now. You're, you're a full-time minister on the staff doing some really, really good work in the areas of connections.
And, and, and, uh, we, we wanna spend a lot there because the problems you are solving, or the problems a lot of churches are having- Mm-hmm ... and how to, how to identify and retain a, a guest to a member to, uh, an involved, uh, lay minister, uh, that you're doing. But y- you, a- and, and I was telling the people this week as getting ready to do this, you're kind of the poster child for a lot of what we talk about at, at ECN, in that ministry is now being [00:01:00] returned to the laypeople.
Hmm. First reformation gave the Bible back to the people. Second reformation is giving ministry back.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay. So when you showed up at Brentwood Baptist Church, you did not understand or see that full-time ministry was in-
Stephanie Prince: No, it was nowhere on my radar ...
Mike Glenn: was in, no- nowhere on your radar. Uh, but it was a real kick for us to ki- for us to see you reach those signposts, and all of us who were watching go, "Y'all watch Stephanie."
Uh-huh. "She's gonna... She, y'all, y'all pay attention. Give Stephanie this next challenge and let's prove that she's, she's called to, to this ministry." So t- go back to the, to the beginning. Uh, you know, the first thing we knew about you is, one, we couldn't pronounce your last name. And the second thing we knew about you is you're a black belt in TaeKwonDo.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah, I was. I've actually got a fourth degree black belt in TaeKwonDo. Oh. My whole background is in martial arts.
Mike Glenn: I'll be, I'll be very, very nice to you here. Thank you, Mike. So I promise you so, with that, so.
Stephanie Prince: Um, yeah, I [00:02:00] mean, my background was in martial arts, both- Mm-hmm ... training competitively and, um, child safety education programs.
And so in 2013, I relocated our corporate headquarters. I was running a martial arts studio.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: Relocated our corporate headquarters to Middle Tennessee, to Franklin, 'cause it was good for business and growth. Right. And, um, someone invited me to Kairos. That was the thing at the time- Mm-hmm ... for young adults to get involved in the church, and I was a young entrepreneur trying to figure out, how do I make Christian friends when I work for myself- Right.
Mm-hmm ... in a brand new city where I don't know anyone? And so I quickly got to know people and got involved with the ministry and with small groups and worship on Tuesday nights, and through that, got to learn that, uh, the administrative assistant for Kairos was- Mm-hmm ... going out on maternity leave. And I thought, "I run a business.
I can help run a ministry, sure." Yeah. "So I'll come in, do some banking, bookkeeping, payroll, you know, that sort of stuff, ministry planning and help out behind the scenes." And so started to do that in a small capacity, and then shortly after, their connection [00:03:00] minister took a leave of absence and I took on some of those roles and thought- Mm-hmm
"This is fun. I'm kinda helping out the ministry that I love. This is something that I'm enjoying doing." But I never saw it initially as a call to ministry. I still had my business. I still had my, you know, vocational job- Mm-hmm ... out in the world. And one of the pastors, uh, it was in 20, gosh, 15 that they said to me, "You're doing this job.
Why haven't you formally applied to be this job?"
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: And I thought-
Mike Glenn: Now, let's understand what, w- when you say you were doing the job. Okay, uh, w- w- with, with a lot of things in church, fill in. Mm-hmm. You show up on Sunday, and you keep the time. Mm-hmm. Okay? Yeah. I'm, I'm here for a Sun- an hour on Sunday. I stand here, and I'm the connections minister.
You didn't do that.
Stephanie Prince: No. I was there Monday through Thursday in
Mike Glenn: the office. Well, Monday through Thursday in the office. We had this huge table at Connections where the, uh, uh, uh, the Connection Center at Kairos- Yeah ... that you had set up. Yeah. You had all [00:04:00] the artwork behind. I, I, I mean, this was like Planet Connections here, all of a sudden.
I don't like to
Stephanie Prince: do anything halfway.
Mike Glenn: Uh, well, okay. And so, and I love when it's easy. That's what, that's what we know. But that, see, what, what I'm trying to get, uh, the pastors and leaders to understand is this kind of talent is sitting out in your pews- Hmm,
Stephanie Prince: yeah ...
Mike Glenn: all the time.
Stephanie Prince: Well, and if that pastor hadn't asked me that question, it never would have challenged me to actually wrestle with my calling.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: And so I turned around, and my answer was, "I'd have to be called to it."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: And then the very next day, because the Lord is good and faithful- Right ... in His silly sense of humor, I'm sitting in the cafe at Brentwood Baptist, and, um, I'm teaching a girl how to lead a Bible study. My small group at the time is about to multiply.
Mm-hmm. She's gonna start a new group. It's gonna be her first time leading. She's nervous. So we're just going through a little mock study in the cafe, and at the same season, uh, there's some girls from a rehab program that were coming to Kairos. Mm-hmm. The house mom was bringing them- Mm-hmm ... on Tuesday nights to worship, and one of them comes up, and I don't want her to feel rejected or [00:05:00] isolated or alone.
Right. So I just pull a chair up. I'm like, "Hey, I'm in the middle of a meeting. Come join us."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: Slide my Bible over to her. I'm like, "Hey, we're in Matthew 8. Just jump in with us." Mm-hmm. We get back to what we're talking about, and I just see her face out of the corner of my eye, like she's getting so angry and so frustrated to the point that I'm like, "Time out, guys."
Yeah,
Mike Glenn: right. "
Stephanie Prince: What is wrong? Why are you mad?" And she looks at me, and she says, "There's a lot of eights on this page." And I realized she's right. There's big eights, there's little eights. It's a study Bible, there's cross-references with the number eight. Y- yeah, that's right. Yeah The page number has an eight in it.
Like, there are a lot of eights on this page, and I realized in that moment that this is somebody I met six months ago in the church building-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Stephanie Prince: who did not know how to read a Bible because she had never held one a day in her life.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Stephanie Prince: And it was in that moment that I feel like the Lord spoke to me and said, "I created you to minister- Mm-hmm
to the broken people inside of my walls-
Mike Glenn: Mm ...
Stephanie Prince: not just outside."
Mike Glenn: Wow.
Stephanie Prince: And so I turned around 24 hours later and was like, "Hey, [00:06:00] actually, remember when I said I'd have to be called?"
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Stephanie Prince: Turns out I am, I just wasn't listening.
Mike Glenn: Funny how that happened, isn't it? Yeah.
Stephanie Prince: So I've been a connection minister vocationally ever since.
Mike Glenn: Okay. What is a connections minister?
Stephanie Prince: Connections minister oversees guest services, and then guest engagement. That whole pathway kind of from the first moment you hear about the church- Mm-hmm ... to actually being an active family member within the church.
Mike Glenn: The whole retention process-
Stephanie Prince: Yes ...
Mike Glenn: of that.
Stephanie Prince: Yes.
Mike Glenn: Okay. So I walk in, and, and, and since I'm, I don't have full-time responsibilities, I've been walking in a lot of churches-
Stephanie Prince: Yeah
Mike Glenn: uh, testing connections and- Mm-hmm ... wel- guest welcoming, all that.
Stephanie Prince: What a fun season.
Mike Glenn: Not many churches do it well.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah. What I've found is that a lot of churches have really good intentions-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Stephanie Prince: and that doesn't always translate to the reality of the culture or the context for their church. And so, uh, that's one of the things I love to do internally in the local [00:07:00] church and also help other churches do, is to experience their church from a guest perspective.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: Step back. Okay, you're coming into the parking lot. Where are the hindrances, frustrations? Where are there challenges coming in- Mm-hmm ... for a guest that's walking into a new building?
Mike Glenn: For instance, one of the challenges at Brentwood Baptist Church is there's so many doors.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Mm. So we added additional signage.
I'm thinking back to our- Mm-hmm ... Cairo stays together. Mm-hmm. And they were very specific about arrows and direction. Right. And you almost wanna over-communicate because you're focusing on the guest who hasn't- Mm-hmm ... been there before, not the person that knows where they're going 'cause they go there every day.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: And so from that perspective, how do we bring our guests in? Then we focus a lot on welcome. We wanna make sure that our greeters are at the doors- Mm-hmm ... that we've got smiles on faces. We're glad you're here. Here's a cup of coffee. Come on in. Feel welcome.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: My problem is when churches just stop there.
That is a great stepping stone, but it's a whole pathway. We've gotta get from welcome to connection to belonging to family.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: So the way I define those four is welcome is, says that we're glad [00:08:00] you're here.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: Connection says we know your name. Belonging says we miss you when you're not here.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: And then family says, "We need you."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. And so- The first way people tell us something's up in their lives- Mm-hmm ... something's going on, that they need attention, is they stop coming.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah
Mike Glenn: They play hide-and-go-seek and don't tell you they're playing.
Stephanie Prince: Yep.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and then you'll hear stories like, you know, "I was six months, seven months I was gone, and nobody called."
Yeah. "Nobody missed me."
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So you want as many hands on a person's life so somebody's missing you somewhere.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah, and that being missed piece is what I've found is key to belonging.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: So I studied belonging for my PhD. Right. I did an entire dissertation project around that concept of where are we disconnecting?
Mm-hmm. I was reading so much data about millennials are disengaging from the church at higher rates than ever before. Mm-hmm. And they won't commit to membership, and, um, all these different things. But then I'm also looking at, like, brand loyalty and marketing [00:09:00] research- Right, right ... that says millennials are- Mm-hmm
highly committed, highly loyal. And I was like, "This doesn't line up." And so as I dug in deeper, I started focus group studies, really specific questions to try to drill into why Christian millennials weren't connecting with the church and what they were looking for- Mm-hmm ... both inside and outside. What did you find out?
One quote that has stuck with me ever since was a girl in one of the focus groups, and I said, "How would you know if you actually belonged?" And she said, "It's not that people see me when I'm there, it's that people see me when I'm not there."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. "
Stephanie Prince: If I'm seen when I am not there, then I feel like I truly belong."
That's
Mike Glenn: right.
Stephanie Prince: And that shifted my entire focus and understanding of what we're looking to create- Mm-hmm ... when we say we are looking to create belonging in a church.
Mike Glenn: What are some of the keys?
Stephanie Prince: That they're known, that they're seen.
Mike Glenn: Okay, okay. That they are known. What does it mean to be known? That I know your name, that I know your history?
Stephanie Prince: Your name, your story. Okay. That you're seen as a person, not just a number. And so I also like to tell [00:10:00] people, when I think about inviting someone to church-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Stephanie Prince: that's a great invitation, and it's important to invite people to church.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: But you're inviting them to something. You're saying, "You're someone I'm trying to reach."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: When you invite someone into your home, into your life, you're saying, "You're someone I want to know."
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: And so we're- Okay ... looking to get to know people. We're not just looking to get people in our doors and in our seats- Mm-hmm ... at a church.
Mike Glenn: So I know you, I know your husband, I know, I know 10 years of your story.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: I know your little girl.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and so at, at those levels now, are you known?
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Or, or, or does it... Or, or do I need to go to the next level that says Stephanie is a, a new minister-
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: who is growing in what it means to, um, to, to serve out of this sense of calling, and is probably not finished-
Stephanie Prince: Hmm[00:11:00]
Mike Glenn: in being called.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: I mean, we were laughing about a mutual friend who we've always known as a musician, who is now being asked to preach a lot.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, and neither one of us are surprised.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-mm.
Mike Glenn: And so he called and said, "Hey, can you help me do some of this stuff?" So we're gonna start working on that.
But what I'm, what I, uh, am interested in seeing is how you go from this point to all of a sudden w- you know, we talked to, uh, in our conversation about this person being a pastor. You didn't shrug when I mentioned it to our friend. They didn't laugh it off or shrug. They see that. But had we talked to him 10 years ago-
Stephanie Prince: Hmm
Mike Glenn: and said, "Hey, this is where you're going"- Mm-hmm ... he would've laughed, probably written a song about it and And, and... But, but this thing of, of, you know, Jesus loves you where you are- Mm-hmm ... [00:12:00] but He n- He, He, He loves you too much to let you stay where you are.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And so, uh, you, you, you get through this thing of getting the business.
You learn all the entrepreneur stuff about a successful business. Then you apply all of those same skills and lessons to the ministry that God has given you and to the church.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: So when did, when did it click, uh, uh, you know, like I tell you, you, you are the poster child for what we, for what we talk about here, uh, of, of ministry coming back to the people.
When did you begin to f- understand that your relationship with Christ and your following Christ involved more than believing-
Stephanie Prince: Hmm ...
Mike Glenn: and actually meant doing?
Stephanie Prince: I actually would give a lot of that credit to you and to some of the other pastors that entrusted me with it, that pushed me and challenged me- Ah
to take on ownership.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. [00:13:00]
Stephanie Prince: Uh, unrelated to ministry, but sort of a tie-in, I was reading a parenting article the other day in a blog. I've got a almost two-year-old- ... and so I spend a lot of time reading random articles- Wait till she's
a teenager ... about potty training- Yeah, yeah ... and all the fun things. You, you get dumber by the day. And so, uh, it was talking about, though, when you give a child age-appropriate chores- Mm-hmm ... that it actually codes their identity to believe that we are, that you need them here.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: I am needed. Mm-hmm. It's part of i- my identity.
And then that creates a secure foundation for a- how they grow up- Mm-hmm ... and how they see the whole world around them. And so when I apply that to ministry, I can look back and see how you guys got to know my name, my story, who I was, but then you challenged me to step into new expectations- Mm-hmm ... and new opportunities, to use my giftings that you guys called out, saw within me, in a way that influenced ministry.
Mm-hmm. And so you handed things over to me, I think, before I was a fully formed- ... minister.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Stephanie Prince: I mean, I think [00:14:00] about- Well, yeah, because- ... you guys gave me the job before I had gone- Mm-hmm ... to seminary, and I learned a lot along the way, and then eventually you said, "Okay, hey, it's time for you to go and get a master's degree- Mm-hmm
to actually learn what you're doing."
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: And then I went on to do my PhD as well, so I mean, but that all started with someone calling it out in me.
Mike Glenn: And the, and the hard thing is, is, uh, gifts are, are, come easily, naturally, because- Mm-hmm ... they're gifts.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know, the world says you gotta work for this, and, and Christ says, "No, I'll give it to you."
And because it comes easily, you discount it.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? And if I say to you, "Stephanie, you really good at working with new people and new g-", you would discount it.
Stephanie Prince: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: And you would say, "Uh, anybody can do this."
Stephanie Prince: Yeah, but you told me, "Hey, I need somebody to do this." Yeah. "There's nobody doing it right now."
That's right. "I need you to jump in. I need you to make it happen."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: And for me, I'm like, "Of, of course. Challenge accepted." That's right. "Let's go." Yeah. I'm gonna not only do it, we're gonna figure out how to improve it- That's right ... and make it 10 [00:15:00] times better, because I love to look at the challenges- Mm-hmm
and help flip those on its head and, and improve things and processes. Yeah, we learned,
Mike Glenn: we learned to be careful what we gave you 'cause you made the rest of us look bad. It's like, you know, I had a, I had, like, a couple of chairs and a table over at the Connection Center, and all of a sudden you had the flashing lights and, and all of that.
But, uh, uh, l- l- this g- gosh, my ADD is just, is, I'm, I'm just so, so excited to be able to, to hear all that you're learning. Uh- How do we move someone from a guest to a, a lay minister, to where I'm, I show up because I'm needed and I'm doing something- Mm-hmm ... important and I'm doing something I'm good at?
Stephanie Prince: We have to call out their gifts.
Mike Glenn: Most of the time, most of the time, uh, a good church member is someone who attends- Mm-hmm ... and a great
Stephanie Prince: church member gives. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And that's all we ask of them.
Stephanie Prince: And that's our fault. And- I mean, that's a [00:16:00] failure on our end ...
Mike Glenn: and that is totally a failure on the, on the end of the church.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And that kind of stuff.
So as you move someone to the process, h- uh, how do you begin to make them aware of how they can become connected with, uh, with some kind of ministry?
Stephanie Prince: That's one of the things that I love about the way that our membership system works- Right ... at Brentwood Baptist. Mm-hmm. So at Station Hill, we use the same process.
Mm-hmm. We call it Discover, where people are actually walking through their spiritual gifts, their skills, passions, um, personality profiles. Right. They're starting to identify who they are. Mm-hmm. And then they meet one-on-one with a connection coach. So sometimes that's me, sometimes that's one of our trained coaches.
That's another lay position where we've looked and seen people who are good in coaching relationships, good at calling things out in other people, good at encouraging them. Mm-hmm. We see those spiritual gifts and say, "You'd be a really great connection coach. Come with me. Learn from me." Right. "Let's do this together, and then we're gonna send you out to do this for us."
And so in those coaching sessions, as we help people identify their [00:17:00] gifts, we are also identifying where could they serve in the church. And so we don't believe that people were, were designed to be consumers in the church. No. It is not a spectator sport by any means. Mm-hmm. And so we're gonna encourage people from the very beginning to get involved.
I would then go back and say, "That's somebody who's interested in membership."
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: Someone who walks through the doors, in my first couple conversations, we're already gonna be talking about serving.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: We're gonna be talking about the needs of the church and how you can help meet those needs.
Mike Glenn: But the, the, the intentionality of placement is huge.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Because you are gifted in teaching doesn't mean you can be teaching preschool.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Or, or it doesn't mean you can be teaching high school. You find a good preschool teacher and they will say, they will tell you point-blank, "Anything past five is wasted."
Stephanie Prince: Uh-huh. "
Mike Glenn: We need to stop everything- ... that we're doing in the church, focus on those first five years, and then we'll have them committed to Christ if we do it when they're preschoolers."
Stephanie Prince: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Talk to a [00:18:00] student minister-
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: and they will tell you, "We need to stop everything but student ministry." Mm-hmm. Because that's the first time these kids, uh, students are ga- are, are, are engaging these questions on their own.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay?
Stephanie Prince: And you can't put a student minister in a preschool
Mike Glenn: role- In a preschool
Stephanie Prince: ministry
or vice versa.
Mike Glenn: Even if they both have the gift of teaching. Uh-huh. Yep. They're, they're, they are miserable. But
Stephanie Prince: once you see them in their role, it's game changer. Oh. Like, they come to life- Yeah ... and the ministry around them just flourishes. Mm-hmm. Because God is at work in and through them.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. And for the pastors, uh, who, who are uneasy about having successful church members- Mm-hmm
church members who do things really well- Yeah ... better than the pastor would do them. You know, one, one of the things I tell people is I'm, I'm very glad that Jesus allowed me to be humiliated by myself. In that there were ti- there were times in our church, and you know some of these stories, uh, Joe Hudson led our building project.
[00:19:00] Yeah. You know? I had nothing to do with that. And it, it's a g- and I would watch Joe and say, "Uh, Joe's messed up here. I'm gonna have to rescue Joe." And Joe's decision would be totally right. Mine would've been totally wrong. Uh-huh. But nobody knew it but me. Mm-hmm. So I was just embarrassed by myself. And I would walk out going, "Oh, I'm so glad you let me be just humiliated by myself," 'cause that would've been embarrassing, uh, with that.
So, um, uh- It, th- the church is healthier, the church is stronger, and it, it, it, it makes the pastor's life so much better and easier when, when, when you're coming to church because I know what I'm to do, uh, and, and, and I'm being engaged in that, and I see what God is doing, which then drives me to worship 'cause I wanna celebrate what I'm seeing God do Mm-hmm
uh, and, and unfortunately in our discipleship process, we have taken off the, the, the obedience [00:20:00] part.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and so it's all about learning.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know, I'm gonna learn Jesus trivia, and I'm gonna be really smart in Jesus trivia.
Stephanie Prince: Well, and I don't want us to ever get stuck in we have to wait for somebody to get it all together.
Yeah. They have to learn all this stuff first before we can sit th- we can send them into service. Mm-hmm. I think even early in their faith, maybe someone doesn't have all their theology figured out. Mm-hmm. Maybe they're not even a believer yet, but they're asking questions. Mm-hmm. They can greet at the door.
They can serve coffee on a Sunday morning. Mm-hmm. They can set up chairs, serve food at event. They
Mike Glenn: can go on a mission trip and, and do construction.
Stephanie Prince: Absolutely. Yeah. We just had a student mission journey come back this summer, and three or four students gave their life to Jesus- Yeah ... who were on the trip leading the trip-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
Stephanie Prince: because of the way they encountered Jesus- Mm-hmm ... in that setting.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. So what, so many of our members, uh, aren't engaged.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Haven't been engaged, or tried once and it didn't work. You know, "Oh, I tried that. It- I'm not, I'm never gonna try again." [00:21:00] What would you say to them?
Stephanie Prince: Try it again.
I would be curious to know in those conversations, I usually take those relationally. Yeah. So we're gonna have a conversation about what did you try, what did you like or not like about it? Mm-hmm. And usually they're not serving in their gifting.
Mike Glenn: Exactly.
Stephanie Prince: They might be serving, and we, I think, can also look at somebody who maybe for work does something.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: And then we put them in a role that's somewhat similar, even if their spiritual gifts are different. Right. And so when we look at the church, I wanna know how we can best utilize you as a person.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: You as the way that the Lord has created, wired, and gifted you for service to build up the body.
Right. I mean, that is biblical.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: Our spiritual gifts are, are to serve the body- Yes ... of Christ. Our,
Mike Glenn: our que- our, our, our first question when we started this process, uh, of, of working with people coming in, we believe Jesus sent you here on purpose.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: We believe Jesus has something in mind.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And we wanna find out [00:22:00] what that is and get you in the right place.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And one of the interesting things that, that we noticed in that process is we began to look for what kind of people Jesus was sending.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And that are we getting clumps-
Stephanie Prince: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: of, of people who are, who are good evangelists, are we getting clumps with good people who are, who are, who are very pastoral oriented?
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Because that would then determine or give us a clue of what God was up to next.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Because he was always marshaling, uh, a, an army.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah. He's always working on a bigger plan.
Mike Glenn: Yes.
Stephanie Prince: We're just a tiny little- Yeah ... pin drop on
Mike Glenn: this- Yeah ... huge
Stephanie Prince: plan.
Mike Glenn: With that. So, um-
Walk, walk me through the process that you would take a normal member through.
Stephanie Prince: So from first visit- Mm-hmm ... we're gonna get information, have a follow-up conversation, how'd, how'd it
Mike Glenn: go? And ju- just, just to help our folks understand, um When people [00:23:00] let you know-
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: that they're there-
Stephanie Prince: Yeah ... it
Mike Glenn: is rarely the first visit.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah. It's usually the
Mike Glenn: second or third. Second or third visit. When I've kind of checked it out- Mm-hmm ... I'm beginning to sense you're okay, then I will tell you that I'm here.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Which makes this first connection follow-up all the more important.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Because I'm finally taking the risk to let you know-
Stephanie Prince: Yeah
Mike Glenn: that I'm open for a conversation.
Stephanie Prince: On a lot of our connection cards, I actually took off the question, "Is this your first time here?"
Mike Glenn: Right.
Stephanie Prince: Because people were so confused about, do I check it?
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Stephanie Prince: I'm not a first-time guest, I'm a third-time guest, but this- Right ... is my first time I'm interacting with you.
Right. And it was just creating confusion. And so, yes, second or third time, we're finally having a conversation. Right. If I can get their information, that means we can have an ongoing conversation. Mm-hmm. So at Station Hill, we do what we call a welcome reception. So once a month, all of our ministry team stays for lunch after the last service ends.
It's a free lunch open to anybody who's new to the church. Mm-hmm. That's always gonna be my next step. So whoever I meet on a [00:24:00] Sunday morning, I'm inviting them, "Come meet us. Come get to know our staff. Come ask your questions. Hear about our ministry. Hear what we're passionate about." And so I'm pointing everybody towards that next step.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: And from there, they get to meet everybody, they get to hear about the church, the heart, the gospel behind it. And then we're walking with them each as individuals. So some of them are ready. They wanna jump in. They're new to town, but they've been involved in church before. They wanna jump in and become a member and learn how to serve and all- Mm-hmm
of these different things. Some people are just figuring out faith for the first time and asking questions. And so we really try to meet them where they're at, and then walk with them on their journey.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: So someone's next step might be to get involved in a life group.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: Or we have a midweek Bible study that we're really focused on Bible literacy and learning the scripture, and might be getting plugged in there.
It might be getting connected to a serving team. They might actually not be ready to learn and dive deeper into scripture, still a little hesitant and asking questions. Mm. But more than happy to hold a door on a Sunday [00:25:00] morning because they know we're short-handed, you know, during a summer holiday weekend.
And so I've gotten some very committed core people through this pathway, specifically because they've come in to serve first.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Now, the interesting thing is, Jesus, in teaching the disciples- Mm-hmm ... would teach, then send them out. Mm-hmm. Come back. So this whole thing, it, they don't have to be totally finished-
Stephanie Prince: Yeah
Mike Glenn: before we send them out and bring them back, send them out and bring them back. Each time this, the task gets a little harder- Mm-hmm ... and a little more involved.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, but, but sending, but waiting till they get it all... Y- y- fixing to get ready.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: In the sou- You know, you're never ready. And
Stephanie Prince: none of us are, yeah, none of us are ever ready- Right
or ever there. There's always gonna be another milestone. Mm-hmm. There's always gonna be deeper learning that we're all capable of growing in. None of us are perfect. Yeah. And so what I love about Jesus is that He wasn't scared of imperfect people. Oh, yeah, that's right. I mean, His whole ministry was with messy people.
Mm. And so for me, I was like, "That, I can get be- [00:26:00] I can do that.
Mike Glenn: I can do that. I know those people.
Stephanie Prince: So. I can fit in there.
Mike Glenn: Tell me, tell me the story that you tell when you want to celebrate what, what you're doing.
Stephanie Prince: I think about the people that have given their life to the Lord. Mm-hmm. I think about, um, the most recent one two weeks ago.
A lady walks in. I've actually known her for years.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: Uh, three years ago when I went from the Brentwood campus to the Station Hill campus, she sent me a Facebook message, told me congratulations on my new role. Mm-hmm. I invited her to church. She never showed up. Three years later, she walks in the door.
She's like, "Stephanie, it's so good to see you." I'm like, "Hey." Introduces me to her new husband. We get to know each other. Mm-hmm. They come a couple Sundays. She's like, "Hey, my husband's really starting to ask questions. I- he's just, there's something that the Lord is doing inside of his heart." Mm-hmm. "He hasn't grown up in church, doesn't know all the language, the churchiness, but the Lord is doing something.
Is there someone that he could talk to?" And so he's a mid-60s man- Mm-hmm ... and connected him with one of our, a male ministers, and said, "Can you just hear his story, get to know him-" Mm-hmm ... [00:27:00] share the gospel with him?" So they sat down. Another lay leader joins in, uh, for a second conversation, and they walk with him to give his life to the Lord.
Mm-hmm. And so this past Sunday, that was a Friday ago, this past Sunday, they come in Sunday morning, and it's just, you can see the joy- Yeah ... on their face, the, the- Yeah ... connection, that they both now have found the Lord, and that they understand that they have a personal relationship with Jesus. Mm-hmm. And it has changed their lives, it's changed their perspectives.
Mm-hmm. And it took 60-something years for him to get there. Oh,
Mike Glenn: yeah.
Stephanie Prince: And then I watch as they're now asking questions, and what, do, can we join a Bible study? We wanna learn more about scripture. And you just see the hunger there. Yeah. And I love that. That makes me so excited.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Tell me the story that breaks your heart.
Stephanie Prince: When people walk away from the church feeling like no one cares about who they are-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Stephanie Prince: or that they're too messy to be there, that absolutely breaks my heart because I feel like there is a place for them to be known.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: [00:28:00] Uh, there is a, there's a reason why they're here. Their life matters, and I always wanna love people well.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Stephanie Prince: And so-
Mike Glenn: And that would always kill me. I'd see somebody in the grocery store-
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: or ballgame or something, "Hey, man, where you been?" Oh, well, you know, "I haven't been coming." And-
Stephanie Prince: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: I go, "Why not?" "Well, nobody, it is... You know, this is going on, this is going on, and-"
Stephanie Prince: Yep.
Mike Glenn: And I didn't know.
Stephanie Prince: And when life spirals and people pull away- Yeah
and I'm like, "I wi- I would be there with you in the messiness." I have driven women to rehab. Mm-hmm. I have picked people up from the mental institute. Sure. Like, we have been in ministry together because I'm a part of their lives. Mm-hmm. And so when people are in tough situations and they walk away, I'm like, "I just wish you would let somebody walk with you."
Mike Glenn: Yeah,
Stephanie Prince: yeah, yeah. You don't have to be alone in it.
Mike Glenn: I- if, if, if I'm going to forget you, let me know that I'm making that decision.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? All right? So give me that chance to say either, "Yeah, I wanna continue to be your friend," or, "I don't." But give that [00:29:00] choice to me.
Stephanie Prince: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Don't make it, don't, don't make it for me-
Stephanie Prince: Yeah
Mike Glenn: with that. Okay. So I'm a, I'm a pastor at, um, Four Corners Baptist Church. I'm hearing this podcast. I'm really excited. How in the world do I begin to set up a ministry like this? Do I call you? Will you come to my church and
Stephanie Prince: Both hands, yes. I actually just recently started a consulting company, so, um, I'm more than happy to jump in.
Imagine that.
Mike Glenn: The entrepreneur starts another country, so yeah.
Stephanie Prince: Uh, it's something I've been doing for, you know, the past couple years, but decided to actually formalize it into a business. Yeah. And so it's called The Guest Word Group. Mm-hmm. And so we're thinking about guest-forward. Mm-hmm. We're thinking about being guest-centric in our churches- Yeah
and looking outside from the inside. And so, um, we come in and help, help people where they're at in the complexity of ministry figure out their next steps. Mm-hmm. And so churches across the country, seasons are changing- Exactly. Right ... faster than they can keep up.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: And what they've done before that worked for so long is just starting to not [00:30:00] work the same way anymore.
Mm-hmm. And so, uh, I'm taking, you know, the things that I've learned through my education, through my experience in the local church and helping churches create pathways to membership, pathways to belonging, pathways and systems that support their church growth, that support engaging the next generation- Mm-hmm
into a deep sense of belonging. Mm-hmm. Uh, kind of all of that sort of thing. And so I'd encourage them to start looking, looking from an outside perspective. Mm-hmm. You've been inside the church for so long, and you've seen it the same way. Think about the people that are walking in for the first time- Mm-hmm
who have not seen the church or who have not engaged in the church.
Mike Glenn: And when you think about it, everything has changed. Banks have changed.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Restaurants have changed. Malls have changed.
Stephanie Prince: Yep.
Mike Glenn: How we shop has... All of, all of that has changed- Mm-hmm ... in, uh, uh, in the last 20 or 30 years. I mean, just, you know, at the, just in my, my lifespan has been ta- You know, we've gone from...
I can remember the [00:31:00] first cellphone I got. It was a brick.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: It wa- And you had a strap, and you carried it around like a briefcase. Uh, you know, but you were still cool- Uh-huh ... 'cause everybody could see that, man, that man, he's got a cellphone. Yeah. So with that. Now, now I can't even find it 'cause it's so small.
It's laying around somewhere, and I laid it down somewhere. Now, now I can't find it, but But we're still trying to do church the same way we did in the 1950s. Uh-huh. And that is, that's not working at all.
Stephanie Prince: I just got to work with a church recently that they were a small church, and ministry just kind of happened.
Right. The Lord brought them people. It was a small town.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: They were known to be the church in town, so ministry happened. Mm-hmm. And then all of a sudden, people from all over are moving in. The seasons are changing. Yeah. People are leaving. The demographic has changed. Right. Demographics have changed, and they're like, "Why is no one coming to our church?"
Down to seven people attending on Sunday morning.
Mike Glenn: Hmm.
Stephanie Prince: And so I got to walk alongside with them as they re-envisioned their identity. Mm-hmm. And that's some of the, the work that I love. Yeah. That will bring me joy and passion to [00:32:00] say, do, are we unified around a mission and a vision and our values? Mm-hmm. Is it for this season, or is it from 50 years ago?
Because the mission and vision that we had back then could be great- Mm-hmm ... and gospel-centered, but not for the context that we're currently in. Yeah. Are we, are we ready to align for this demographic- Mm-hmm ... for this season of ministry? And then to be able to help them actually write those out, solidify those, unify their staff, unify their volunteers, those seven people- Mm-hmm
and then grow from there. And within six months, they were running 40 people again. Wow. And it was like watching that growth when you have an idea of why you are reaching these people- Mm-hmm ... not just, well, this is because how we've always done it.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. How can people get in touch with you?
Stephanie Prince: Uh, stephanie@theguestwordgroup.com.
Mike Glenn: All right.
Stephanie Prince: So, or www.theguestwordgroup.com.
Mike Glenn: Stephanie Brent, she is one of my favorite people, and one of the great joys of my life has been watching her develop into the minister, uh, that, that you are. [00:33:00] And, uh, gosh, I'm really excited to see what's, what's ahead for you-
Stephanie Prince: Thank you,
Mike Glenn: Mike ... uh, with all, with all your talents and gifts.
Of course, I will take full credit and, uh with that, with, you know, my, my typical self. But, um, um, we, we wanna, we wanna stay in conversation with you and, and, uh, and bring you back to keep hearing what you're learning and what you're, what you're doing new-
Stephanie Prince: Thank
Mike Glenn: you ... and that kind of stuff Thank you for inviting me to be a part of this conversation
but, but thank you. Thank you for being part of this today. These are fun. All right. Thank you. How are you using leader, teacher in that context?
Stephanie Prince: Yeah, so, um, my structure for developing leaders is more of a model of like, "Come with me." Yeah. "Let's do it together."
Mike Glenn: Okay.
Stephanie Prince: So I'm going to lead... Let's say it's a new greeter for the first time.
Mm-hmm. I'm gonna say, "I'm greeting at the door. Come with me. Watch me." Okay. "We're gonna do it together."
Mike Glenn: Okay.
Stephanie Prince: Then the next week, "Hey, come with me. I'm gonna have you greet, and I'm gonna help you greet." Okay. So then if a question comes up that they don't know the answer to, I'm there. Right. We can, we can teamwork this together, grow together in it.[00:34:00]
Then I'm gonna watch from behind the scenes. "Hey, you've got this. You run with it, but I'm right over here if you've got questions."
Mike Glenn: Okay.
Stephanie Prince: You, something comes up that you don't know how to handle, come find me. We'll walk with it together.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: And then step four is you do it. You lead on your own.
Mike Glenn: How long does that usually take?
Stephanie Prince: I would say anywhere from four weeks to a couple months- Right ... depending on the role.
Mike Glenn: Role and the person.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah. Role and person, absolutely. So same thing with small group leadership. Mm-hmm. That's always how I multiplied leaders.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: Is my group would grow, I'd identify somebody who has some giftings and a passion that I feel like the Lord is moving in their life, and they're walking in obedience to Him, and I would say, "Hey, would you want to multiply this group and co-lead it with me?"
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. And the answer is always no. Isn't it? Isn't it?
Stephanie Prince: Yeah, 90% of the time- ... it is absolutely no.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, yeah. It's like, "
Stephanie Prince: Oh, I could
Mike Glenn: never do that." No, I'll n- no, I'll n- no, I can never do what you do. Or I c- yeah.
Stephanie Prince: And so let's take it back. Let's say, "Hey, could you come lead for one week?" Yeah. "I will be there. I will make the food, we'll hang out, but I want you to lead this portion of the study."
Mm-hmm. "Of course, I [00:35:00] can lead a couple questions." Yeah. And so you watch them grow in that. And then you say, "Okay, hey, I've gotta be out of town this next week. Can you host the group, and can you lead the group? Okay. Hey, let me know. Let's have coffee afterwards. How did it go? What challenges came up from you- Mm
for you? Uh, is there anything that you wanna discover more before you lead your own group?" Mm-hmm. "Because I really see that potential in you." And a lot of times you just hear them come to life. Yeah. It's like once you've done it-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
Stephanie Prince: again, going back to that, like, tangibility of if you actually experience serving, then you're like, "Oh, I get this."
Mike Glenn: Yeah, and it's validated by the other members of the group. Uh-huh.
Stephanie Prince: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Gosh, you are good at this. You know how to do- Yeah ...
Stephanie Prince: yeah. Mm-hmm. What's the story to celebrate? Mm-hmm. Why was that such a good group? Mm-hmm. And then multiply out from there.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: And then they do the same thing, and you watch m- disciples multiplying disciples in action.
Mike Glenn: Right. Let me ask you a little more personal question-
Stephanie Prince: Okay ...
Mike Glenn: since we're here. Uh, you are like a lot of women now. You're working full time, you got a baby, two years old.
Stephanie Prince: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: [00:36:00] Uh, married. How do you keep all that balanced? Or-
Stephanie Prince: Yeah, it is a balance ...
Mike Glenn: or do you? Do we need to turn the mics off and, and, and talk to anything?
Stephanie Prince: It is a balance. Mm-hmm. And for me, it's a discipline. Right. I mean, when I was studying in school, I always got up 5:00 AM.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Prince: First two hours of the day was schoolwork for me. And so I've just looked at seasons of life and said, "That time is now my time. If I don't get up early in the morning- Right ... I'm not gonna be able to do my devotional.
I've gotta make time to, to sit with the Lord in the morning." And then that's actually a lot of the time that I work on consulting things. Mm-hmm. I'm kind of scheduling my week and my day, and working with other churches, putting things together in those moments before my daughter gets up, so that I can be fully present- Yeah
in those morning moments.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. When, when our boys were little, I found out that welcoming them into my day- Mm-hmm ... was totally different than being welcomed into their day.
Stephanie Prince: Uh-huh. Yeah. My daughter wants to hit the ground running.
Mike Glenn: Yes.
Stephanie Prince: So she goes-
Mike Glenn: And she has plans ...
Stephanie Prince: we call it peanut mode- Yeah ... where she's, like, sound asleep in a little ball.
Yeah. And then [00:37:00] she just stands up, and she's ready for the day. And I'm like, "I need, like, a transition- Yeah, right ... time." And she's like, "Here I am. Let's play." That's right. Yeah. And so trying to be fully present when I am home with her. Mm-hmm. And so thankfully, she goes to bed at 6:30, and all the other parents are gonna hate me for saying this- Oh, gosh
but my daughter sleeps 12 hours a night.
Mike Glenn: Oh, you need to be on your knees asking for forgiveness. Yes.
Stephanie Prince: The Lord has blessed us with an, just an incredible, a incredible sleeper. Yeah. And so she goes to bed at 6:30 every night and wakes up at 6:30 the next morning.
Mike Glenn: Oh, gosh.
Stephanie Prince: And so then
Mike Glenn: that gives my husband and me some time.
If, if you have another child, that'd be a hellion. I want you to ... You, you, you'll, you'll pay it back. Trust me. That's what everyone tells me. Yeah, right. So what, what's the rhythm with you and your husband?
Stephanie Prince: So that, that, that evening time. Mm-hmm. The evening time. So eating dinner together, spending time together.
Mm-hmm. Whether it's sitting at the table having conversation- Mm-hmm ... or relaxing on the couch, we're finding those moments after she goes down to, to spend some time together. And then during the day is, is vocational work for [00:38:00] me. Right. I'm connection minister at a church Monday through Thursday. Mm-hmm. I'm at church.
I'm, again, very, very blessed. My sister-in-law watches my daughter- Mm-hmm ... Monday through Thursday, and so we live five minutes from them, so I get to do a little loop- Yeah ... where I get her up, and we go to Aunt Amy's house, drop her off for the day. I go to the church 10 minutes away, and kind of make that loop in reverse- Yeah
at the end of the day.
Mike Glenn: Excellent.
Stephanie Prince: So-
Mike Glenn: Excellent ...
Stephanie Prince: very, very blessed
