The Church in its Neighborhood | Coffee with Mike feat. David Hannah
Mike sits down with Pastor David Hannah from The Church at Lockeland Springs to discuss his experience as a pastor in the vibrant East Nashville neighborhood. From frequenting local coffee shops to his time on the mission field, David offers invaluable insights on how to intentionally love and serve the community around you. Their engaging conversation explores the unique challenges and rewards of being a neighborhood pastor and how to foster meaningful relationships with those nearby.
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Mike Glenn: Hi, my name is Mike Glenn, and I am the president of The Engaged Church Network. And, uh, we are glad that you have joined us for this video blog about, uh, being a pastor and leading in the middle Tennessee area. Joining me today is my good friend, David Hanna. I have known David, uh, longer than he wants to tell you.
Uh, you were literally in high school, I think the, the first time- Um, I think
David Hannah: that's the first time we met, absolutely.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. It is. Was in high school. Uh, I have had the privilege of being part of David and Nicole's life for years. They were part of Brentwood Baptist Church, taught a Sunday school class out of that experience, were called to international missions, and, uh, spent several years in Bologna, Italy.
That's right. Which was the heart of, uh, hum- humanistic, uh, philosophy and humanism and all of that. Absolutely. I mean, kind of like the epicenter of- Sure ... of, of, of the world. So he was doing missions right there. When we had the opportunity to have a church campus in [00:01:00] East Nashville, uh, somebody said, "We don't have anybody that understands that culture."
I said, "I know a guy who does, who's been trained and, uh, and prepared for this by the Lord." And we gave David a call. David came and has been leading the Lockeland campus, oh, gosh. Can't wait seven years. Seven years. Coming up here in a couple of months. Outstanding. Oh, good
David Hannah: grief.
Mike Glenn: Outstanding. Now, for those of you who do not know, uh, Lockeland Springs, uh, is in the middle of East Nashville.
That's right. And for those of you who may not know, East Nashville is its own world.
David Hannah: That's absolutely-
Mike Glenn: Okay, so when you cross the river and you get into East Nashville- Right ... uh, you're in a, an entirely different world. So one of the things that, that I'm finding out as I walk around talking to people is, uh, a, a lot of pastors don't know themselves, uh, a lot of pastors don't know their church.
Mm. And most pastors don't understand their neighborhood. [00:02:00]
David Hannah: Okay.
Mike Glenn: So we put you in the middle of East Nashville. Uh, there was a church of 20, maybe. I was a good- On the good side of 20 ... I'm a good 20. Yeah. Probably there. Uh, who were desperate, i- in the best sense of that word, that there continued to be a gospel witness in that facility and in that neighborhood.
But it's a very different neighborhood, so a l- most of what you learned here at Brentwood Baptist Church won't translate across the river as far as structure and patterns- Sure ... and how you do things. Absolutely. That's right. You know, the essence is always the same. That's right. That's right. The message is the same.
The method is very, very different. So we throw you in East Nashville, and we say, "David, go figure it out." So how did you begin to understand your neighborhood, and what did you find out in, in that process?
David Hannah: Yeah, that's a, gosh, that's a, that's a great question and a great introduction, Mike. How did I begin to understand the neighborhood?
Step one is b- being a part of the neighborhood, [00:03:00] fi- finding your place, um, being present. Uh, a lot of it is just that ministry of presence.
Mike Glenn: But- Okay, when you say that, now what do you mean?
David Hannah: So it is... If, if, if my only touch points with my community are professional, I, I, I come in, I office at the church building that's right in the, in the community, I have events and hope the community comes to me, um, I, I do things as a pastor-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
David Hannah: then that's all I'm ever going to be seen as. He- the here's the new preacher that- Right ... arrived in. But when I move my family into the community, when my kids are in school in the community, when I'm in the coffee shops and the restaurants, when I go to the local Y, when I'm a part of the community- Mm-hmm
kind of weaving myself and my family- Mm-hmm ... into the fabric of the community, that's how you start to get to know the culture and the people, because you start to recognize that East Nashville, which, uh, [00:04:00] I, I grew up in Nashville. You've been here. I'm not even gonna- I do ... pretend to- ... uh, say how long. Uh, and East Nashville absolutely has a, a reputation.
Right. Like everything else in the world, like every other people group in the world, when you start to get to know the people that are there, you- Mm-hmm ... recognize they're not monolithic.
Mike Glenn: Right.
David Hannah: It is a community made up of individuals. The only way you can know, know that is when you are a part of it, when you are, when you are entering into that place in, in the community.
But you can only do so with humility.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Well, and you talked to, in ear- earlier conversations, you've talked about how, uh, you intentionally became a regular.
David Hannah: So when we were, I, I was, um, in, as you mentioned, I was, I was in Bologna, Italy for a long time, and, um, we worked with a bunch of different groups, missions organizations that would be over there, and there was one particular missions organization that would send people for a year-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
David Hannah: at a time. Uh, a- [00:05:00] and, and those folks would come to us and say, "How, how can I, how can I become Italian?"
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: And we would make sure they understood, "A, you're not. That's- ... that's not gonna happen." Right? When you leave in a year, there's not one Italian that's going to think you're Italian.
Mike Glenn: Right.
David Hannah: But you can become a part of the culture, and the way to do that is find something in your neighborhood.
Find a coffee shop, find your favorite breakfast place, find a restaurant, find a pub, find whatever it is and become a regular at that place.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: Go multiple times a week. Order the exact same thing. You show up and you order a, a cappuccino and a croissant, order it four days a week. Within a couple of weeks, you're gonna walk in and that cappuccino and croissant are going to be sitting at the table waiting on you.
You're gonna know the name of the barista. You're gonna know the name of the guy that sits next to you. You're gonna start to know the customers, and they're gonna recognize you as a part of their community. Mm. When that happens, when you start to be accepted into that community, then you [00:06:00] begin to see the inner workings.
The curtain begins to be pulled back. So we took that same idea, applied it to our neighborhood here in the East, and you find those two or three places, and you kind of just become a regular. And you do so with authenticity-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
David Hannah: um, which is a, which is a key component so many of us miss. Oftentimes we do it as a strategy.
Mike Glenn: Right Something you do, not who you are
David Hannah: Exactly
Mike Glenn: Yeah
David Hannah: But, but when you say, "Hey, you know what? This is the neighborhood in which God has planted me, therefore, I want to become a part of the neighborhood."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: I want to. Not I need to, not I should, not the only way I'm gonna be an effective minister. It's, no, this, these are my people- Right
and I want to be theirs.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: So I'm gonna give myself over to them, and you do tho- so with an authenticity and a humility- Mm ... recognizing that not only do you have something to give the community, the community has something to give to you.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I often tell pastors, sometimes [00:07:00] God puts you some- someplace to help the church, and sometimes he puts you there for the church to help you.
David Hannah: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, so there is that, that mutual kind of benefit of, of having... What were the surprises? What were the things where you went, "Oh, I have totally misread this"?
David Hannah: Oh, gosh, Mike, that's a great question. Um, it is growing up in Nashville and thinking you know a place from the outside looking in. Right. And, and I was in many ways for many seasons in my life an East Nashville tourist.
It does have, uh, great music venues and- Great restaurants ... great restaurants. And so you would- Yeah ... kind of go in there, and it's this cool culture.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: A- and you would be a part of that for a brief moment. Right. But in the exact same way that, you know, we go to New York City and we ride the subway and we go to a Broadway show.
There
Mike Glenn: are always the tour- You know, you- ... tourists. Yeah
David Hannah: You don't know New York. You've never lived in New York. You've, you know, it's, you've, you've seen the tourists. That's what I thought East Nashville was. When you get to be a part of the [00:08:00] community, one thing you recognize, and one of the hardest things for me as a minister to, to humbly receive, is in many ways East is a community- that loves their neighbors oftentimes better than the church does.
Ah. There is, there is a, a, an intimacy in that community because of the way it's set up. It is a truly, um, communal lifestyle. So you, you talk about crossing the river, and, and, and those of us that live in the east, we talk about not ever wanting to cross the river - Right. Yeah ... oftentimes. But, but what, what you need to understand is the river surrounds us on three sides.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: We are a peninsula right in- Mm ... the center of the city. There's only bridges on one side, which means from the east side, from the south side, you can't get in, you can't get out. Which makes East Nashville, despite its central location, it is incredibly isolated.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: [00:09:00] When you're there, you're there for a reason.
Mm. And the people that live there, live there for a reason. And the assumption is the people that live on my right, the people that live on my left, they are a part of this for a reason as well. Right. And they are now my people.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: So there is, it is very much a front, a front porch neighborhood- Right
not a back deck privacy fence neighborhood.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: You sit out and you talk to your neighbors as they go by. You know what they need. You enter into their homes. You have meals with them. And because of that, you want to be a part of it. So as I got into the community, and I started to see, wow, I am now in a, i- in a, in a place where the people around me can teach me what it means-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
David Hannah: to give themselves, to give myself over to my neighborhood, over to the people in which God has planted me. Um, that, that was something that was really surprising to me, and it took, it took us some [00:10:00] time to kind of humbly receive that.
Mike Glenn: Okay. So, so, so Brentwood sent you over there, and Brentwood is, is Brentwood with its own DNA, and we talk about that all the time.
You find out that that doesn't work. So how do, how do you take the essence of the gospel- Yeah ... and, and translate it into East Nashville? Because the one thing we wanted was every church being indigenous to its own culture. Sure. And, uh, and what works on this side of the street may not work on the other side of the street.
Right. So you would come up with interesting ideas like my, one of my favorite stories is the day that you ended up preaching on the front steps of the church, and the whole back row of everybody out there was dogs. Oh,
David Hannah: yeah. Yeah. '
Mike Glenn: Cause everybody had been walking their dog- Sure ... heard the music or- That-
and they sat down.
David Hannah: Yeah, that's... So we, we have a, a, we are in a semi-urban environment. Our neighbors are neighbors. Mm. Real [00:11:00] people that live in real houses and have real names that we get to know. You know, we're not surrounded by interstate exits and parking lots. Um, so once a year, we just have a big huge bluegrass service and a barbecue just out in our courtyard.
And it's, it's wonderful that to see your neighbors that are kind of walking their dogs on the sidewalk that sit down and they wanna hear- Mm ... the music. Um, yeah, so that's, that's, that's something we love to do. But as you talk about some of the differences in kind of the Brentwood DNA and, and how that, parts of it might not work in the community in which, in which I've been planted, getting to know the community is so important in that because here in Williamson County, in general, obviously painting- Right
very broad strokes here, but in general, when someone moves into Williamson County- One of the very first things they're looking for is where are we gonna go to church? Mm. Where's the local church? [00:12:00] And, and a part of that is they're gonna look for programs. They're gonna look- Right ... for, uh, wh- where their kids are gonna be.
They're gonna look for the youth groups. And so a church like Brentwood needs to recognize that, and needs to know how to love and serve those people, um, i- in the best way possible, how to, how to point them towards Jesus and walk with them that direction. In east, the very last thing anyone is asking- Right
is, "Where am I gonna go to church?" Mm-hmm. There is a, there's an incredible, um, distrust of the church. Uh, much of what, much of which they come by very honest. Yeah. We've, we've earned that. Yeah. We earned that. We've absolutely earned that. So to, to kind of build a church based on attractional programs, here's the- Mm-hmm
things that we have to offer you.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: Well, A, they're not looking for anything. B, they'll never know what those things are because they're never gonna- Right ...
Mike Glenn: door
David Hannah: to door of the building to begin with.
Mike Glenn: And they don't speak that language.
David Hannah: They [00:13:00] don't speak that language whatsoever. Right. So it's a, it's a matter of being an authentic part of the community yourself, um, to kind of really start to, um, till that soil, to build that trust, to let them know we are a safe place.
We're here to love and serve you, not with an agenda. Ac- Can I tell you a story? Sure. So when we were in Italy, um, in Western Europe, uh, ministry tends to happen very, very slowly. A few, after a few years, there was a young man that a, that had come to, uh, the university that where we were serving for, for grad school.
He shows up at a Bible study. Very first thing he says to me is, "I want you to know I've just moved here. My mentor back home made me promise in the three years I'm, I'm in Bologna, I will attend one Bible study. I saw your flyer." "I figured I'm gonna go and knock that thing out early." "You are never gonna see me again."
It's fine. Uh, no problem at all. Well, that night I ended up [00:14:00] taking him out for pizza. We met every week for probably six or eight weeks after that. And after about six weeks, I, I invited him out again, "Hey, let's set up a time for next week." He said, "Sure." But then he looked at me and he said, "But I want you to know that I know that I'm a part of your job" And it absolutely cut me to the core, 'cause he was exactly right.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
David Hannah: I, I treated him like a friend.
Mike Glenn: Mm.
David Hannah: He was not a friend. He was a project. He was an assignment,
Mike Glenn: yeah.
David Hannah: Exactly. He was something that looked really good in a prayer letter to send home. Mm-hmm. He was something that you could mark on a spreadsheet. But I did not see him in any way as an equal. I did not see him in any way as someone that could contribute to my life.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: And because of that, I recognized I was s- assigning him a worth and value [00:15:00] based only on what I could give him. Right. And it was heartbreaking. It absolutely... It, it, it was a pivotal point in my own personal faith journey, but it changed the way I do ministry. It... When we c- go into a place like East, looking around and recognizing I'm not getting to know this place, getting to know this neighborhood, serving my neighbors as some sort of project.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: It's because I love this place. Mm. And I want to be loved by this place. I wanna be a part of this place. I have so much to learn. Yes, absolutely, I wanna share the gospel. Absolutely, I wanna make sure everyone that I come in contact with knows that they can know a living savior.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
David Hannah: But it's not because I wanna be able to write it down on some sort of spreadsheet.
Sure. It's because I, I love them desperately, and I'm not going to wel-
Mike Glenn: So let me, let me see if I'm following you ... the
David Hannah: [00:16:00] news to an end.
Mike Glenn: Most of us, me included, I mean, I've done this all my life, I would've gone into East Nashville as a pastor. Right. That may or may not have ever become Mike Luedke to East Nashville.
Sure. You're saying that to really know your neighborhood, you have to come in as David- Right ... and be earn, and earn the title, be ordained, as it were- Sure ... by that community to be called pastor.
David Hannah: That's, I, I think that's a great way to put it. That's a, that's a beautiful way to really kind of take that perspective of coming in as your true authentic self.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
David Hannah: Um, and entering into-
Mike Glenn: So, so I'm a new, I'm a new pastor going into a new community. Sure. You're, you are encouraging me to take the risk of coming in as Mike, not in as a position.
David Hannah: Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially when you're in a community that isn't looking for a pastor. Right. [00:17:00] Um, but, but I, I would contend that wherever we are, wherever the Lord has planted us, to enter into that place as your true authentic self.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: The problem for many of us, Mike, is we don't know our true authentic self. Don't even know
Mike Glenn: ourself. Yeah. Right.
David Hannah: Like, how do we do that?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: Um, when I don't know who I
Mike Glenn: am. Yeah. What I'm finding out is they don't know themselves, they don't know their church, and they don't know their neighborhood.
David Hannah: Absolutely.
Mike Glenn: And then you end up waiting for the church to define you, and that's- Right ... that is catastrophic.
David Hannah: Um, one of the great joys of my life, there's a, there's just this incredible restaurant that is right next door to our church that I spend a lot of time, and I've gotten to know the servers there, and the owners there, and the chef there, and so on and so forth, just because- You, you're a regular
I'm a regular. And, and I'm a regular selfishly. The, the food, the atmosphere. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Don't have something to give to me. Oh my
David Hannah: gosh. There, it's just such a wonderful place to be. And a buddy of mine, I c- I recommend it to anybody that, that is in East, that a buddy of mine [00:18:00] had, had gone there on my recommendation, and he sits down and he gets to know, uh, he was talking to his server, and he says, "Hey, I'm, I'm a friend of, I'm a friend of David's.
He told me to come over here." And he goes, "Oh, David, our pastor." Not one person in that restaurant has ever- Ever been to your church ... been to your church. Yeah. Ever. Ever. But just being there, um, they, they know who I am.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: But they know who I am first and foremost as someone that loves the community, as someone that loves them, as someone that loves what they serve.
Mm-hmm. As someone that gets to be a part of it. Um, and over the years, they have recognized something different. Which is, which is- Really beautiful, but I had no idea it was happening
Mike Glenn: Right. It's an organic kind of thing. Sure. It's n-
David Hannah: yeah
Mike Glenn: Not anything you can plan or, or work with.
David Hannah: Right.
Mike Glenn: So I'm moving into a new neighborhood.
What are the handful of steps that you would suggest?
David Hannah: Well, we, I mean, we've already covered a big [00:19:00] one, and that's be a regular somewhere.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: Fi- find a, a, a local community spot and just be there, and be there authentically, vulnerably, and humbly. Mm. Not as a means to an end, um, not as some sort of project, just to get to know the community.
I would highly recommend being a part of a couple of community organizations, whether it's the YMCA, whether it's getting your kids in a local basketball league. I am a huge advocate for local schools.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: Um, I know there's a lot of different thoughts and, and ideas around that right now, but it is amazing not only what it does, um, to allow you to weave yourself into the fabric of the community when you're in the local school, but it says something to be a part of the loc- local school, and it also says something to choose not to.
Right. That you are making, whether you want to or not. Mm-hmm. When you say, "Yes, I'm here. I wanna be a part of this community, but- You're right ... I'm gonna go down [00:20:00] that road." Yeah. A- and, and I recognize there are circumstances when that's what needs to be done. But to the extent it is possible for us, for, for my family and I, that's been a, that's been a huge part of our story.
Mm. Just enter into that community and start to look around and, and ask the Lord, "What can the people around me teach me about you?"
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hannah: I, I, I believe you believe every person that we come in contact with is an image-bearer- Image-bearer ... of our creator. Um, as such, they have worth, they have value- Mm-hmm
and they have something to teach us, whether or not they even know it. That's right. They have something to teach us. So ask the Lord, "What do the people around me, these people that, that you have given me to and you've given to me, what do they have to teach me about you?" And when you do that, it's amazing how it shifts into a s- perspective of humility and curiosity.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. And, and, and conversation. So what have you learned about God at the soccer? I know [00:21:00] you're a big, big Nashville soccer fan,
David Hannah: that you are. Oh, gosh, well, I've certainly prayed to-
Mike Glenn: Like, like- Miracles, miracles still happen, huh?
David Hannah: There is... One of the things I love about soccer, of course, spending a, a decade in Europe, it's, it's hard to escape that culture, but there is an intimacy and a camaraderie- Mm-hmm
in, in soccer fans i- in the way they rally around each other, not just at the soccer matches. I love getting to be a part of that community. I love the way that community serves their community. There's so many of- Very ... these outreaches that come out of just soccer fans. That's right. Because they come together and they say, "Okay, where are the needs around us- Mm
and what can we do?" Um, so there is, there is something beautiful about seeing people come together and figuring out what it looks like to truly love. Um, ah, I was reading
Mike Glenn: through Matthew [00:22:00] 25 actually this morning.
David Hannah: You know, you've got the Jesus and he's separating the sheep and the goats- Mm-hmm ... and all those fun things, and we all wanna be the sheep on the right- Right
and the goats on the left. And, and the way Jesus says he will separate the sheep from the goats is not how well they know theology.
Mike Glenn: Right.
David Hannah: It's not how many Bible verses they've remembered. It's not how many of the 10 Commandments they've kept that day. It's the way they have loved the least of
Mike Glenn: these.
Sure. Thy neighbor as
David Hannah: them. Yeah. You, you, you have served me by the way you served your neighbors- Mm ... the way you've loved me. And, and one of the things that stuck out to me this morning as I was reading through it was the sheep in that metaphor look at Jesus and say, "Wait, when-"
Mike Glenn: Yeah ... "and
David Hannah: did we serve?"
Mike Glenn: They wouldn't do that, yeah.
David Hannah: They didn't even know.
Mike Glenn: They didn't recognize most of it.
David Hannah: They didn't, because, because it wasn't a means to an end. It was an outflow of Christ's love in them.
Mike Glenn: Not, not- And when- ... weren't looking to check something off ...
David Hannah: they weren't looking to check something off. They weren't looking to put [00:23:00] something in a prayer letter.
Um, and so often those of us that grew up in ministry, that's our perspective. We're gonna do this because it looks really good, because it looks great on a spreadsheet- Mm-hmm ... because it looks great at the annual report. Right. When the sheep in Matthew 25 say, "I didn't even realize I was doing it." Didn't even know it.
Didn't even know it.
Mike Glenn: He's David Hanna, and he is the pastor of the church at Lockland Springs. I'm glad you have joined us on this episode of Coffee With Mike. Hope it has been beneficial to you. I, I know I've learned some stuff. He always teaches me well, and we'll see you next time.
