Pastoring Your Congregation Through an Intense Election Year feat. Michael Easley
Mike Glenn sits down with Michael Easley to explore the intersection of politics and the pulpit in today’s political climate and constantly changing terrain. Michael is a respected Bible teacher, pastor, and former president of Moody Bible Institute. Michael has faithfully serves churches in the DC and Nashville metro areas. He hosts several podcasts, including “Michael in Context” and “Ask Dr. E,” where he addresses theological questions head-on.
-
Mike Glenn: Hi, I am Mike Glenn and I am the president of the Engage Church Network, which works with pastors and churches throughout the Middle Tennessee area, and unless you have been living under a rock for the last several months, then you would know that we are in an election year and what a fun time everybody's having as we are taping this.
President Trump has been nominated by the Republican Party. And President Biden has decided that he's not running for reelection. And Kamala Harris, the vice president, is now the preemptive, presumed
Michael Easley: democratic,
Mike Glenn: presumed, presumed, uh, vice president, uh, Kamala Harris is now the presumed candidate for the Democratic Party, and all of that is shaking out.
In all of this craziness, uh, we get to pastor churches. Now, it was one thing a few years ago when you had [00:01:00] Republicans and Democrats and, uh, everybody knew who everybody was. Um, but now things have begun, have become so volatile and so angry, and so. Let's just face it dangerous. So how do you pastor a church through these next several months, uh, with the coming election and do it faithfully and do it with integrity?
So, to be part of our conversation today, I've invited my friend Mike Easley. Uh, Michael was the, uh, president of Moody, uh, uh. Institute, moon Bible Institute. Moon Moony, Bible Institute. Yeah. In Chicago. Pastor churches in Texas, in Virginia, uh, and suburbs of Washington dc which gives him particular insight for our topic today, as well as churches in Tennessee.
So, uh, you and I have known each other
Michael Easley: 16, 17 years.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: You were the first pastor. When we moved here, they call me
Mike Glenn: and say,
let's
Michael Easley: go to lunch. Took me to lunch.
Mike Glenn: That's
Michael Easley: good. And you picked me up in your car [00:02:00] and you bought my lunch
Mike Glenn: and we wandered off. I've been paying for that lunch ever since, so I
Michael Easley: think that's only time you ever bought my lunch
Mike Glenn: ever.
And slipped up on that one. I can tell you. Um. What do we say to pastors of churches during this time? What are the handful of dos and not dos?
Michael Easley: Well, let,
Mike Glenn: let's, that we wanna bring up,
Michael Easley: I mean, not to be typical pastors, but we do need to start with, you know, God is sovereign. Amen. He's the king of kings, Lord of lords.
Um, I was talking to a friend of ours, Dennis Rainey the other day on the phone, and we were chatting about the last. 14 days, you know? Mm-hmm. You and I have never seen anything like this. No. Nothing. And uh, he said years ago he did a study on Kings, and he said, I looked at all the kings in the Bible. I looked at as many kings as I could, you know, throughout history.
Mm-hmm. And stopped after several thousands, just getting names and dates. Mm-hmm. And he goes, Jesus', king of kings.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: Innumerable kings from time [00:03:00] immemorial and he's king of kings. And I think we do well to really remind our, our body, the church, the fellowship. There's one king.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: And he does not share power as That's right.
Mike Glenn: And our future is not determined by the occupant of the White House at any given time.
Michael Easley: The, the other thing that I think is important spiritually is to, is to calm people. That if your faith is grounded in Christ mm-hmm. In your walk with Christ, that you don't have to fear. Now, sure we can get persecution and injustice in, in this world, but at the big picture level.
Um, and that's a voice that they're not gonna hear anywhere else. Right? They're not gonna see it on Instagram or TikTok maybe. But they'll, you know, if they go to their local church and they look at their pastor as a spiritual leader. I mean, he reads the Bible all day. He should be right. Um, I think it's important to come back to that touchstone again and again.
Yeah. Uh, practically speaking, um, you know, we should be praying diligently mm-hmm. For our country, [00:04:00] for the leaders. I mean, Cindy and I, years ago when we didn't like a particular candidate
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: We prayed for the office.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: Um, certainly the
Mike Glenn: old military, you, you salute the rank, not the man.
Michael Easley: Yep, yep.
Mm-hmm. So the office is the president of the United States, the justices of the Supreme Court.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: If you wanna follow the New Testament injunctions to pray for those in power, pray for those in leadership, pray for kings in authority. Um, it, it would be, it'd do you well.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: And you, you know, as well as that, even Mike, when you pray vertically, it aligns you.
Right. More than anything.
Mike Glenn: Sure.
Michael Easley: So those are, those are two from the get go I'd say are very important to focus on reminding your people, God's not pacing the floor, ringing his hands. Oh gosh. It's gonna be, are caught
Mike Glenn: off guard
Michael Easley: by new developments. And, the third thing, and then, you need to guide this, but the third thing, uh, we're a very young country.
Ostensibly the youngest country on the planet. We had the most power and wealth, [00:05:00] perhaps. China may be at our heels, but to remind ourselves, Israel was, you know, 4,000 years old at the most conservative number date, um, middle Eastern countries very old. China's very old. And here we are, 246 this year.
Is that it? Um, we're a baby. And kingdoms rise. And kingdoms fall. And if, this is the Lord's design for us, then we have to be men and women of faith.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Okay. How, uh, how do we talk to our members who aren't happy with that answer? Who want us to be more direct? Uh, I had pressure, I'm sure you did.
Uh, to publicly endorse
Michael Easley: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Presidential candidates from the pulpit.
Michael Easley: So. When we live in the DC area, of course we had a, a pretty international church. Mm-hmm. It, it, it leaned white, but we had internationals because the people that worked in the DC area were from all different international mm-hmm.
[00:06:00] Makeup. So it was, it was a wonderful, uh, neighborhood in that regard. We loved our international community. Um, and we had Democrats and Republicans and then, and we had people that were known entities in the media. Mm-hmm. We had, um. Oh, conservatively, half a dozen elected officials at any given time. A lot of staffers.
Mm-hmm. Both in the White House and tons of Pentagon and military men and women. Um, so it was a very, it was a cauldron right. Now that said, um, you had those on both extremes. And so I never got up and endorsed a candidate. And when a person would buttonhole me like that, right. I would go, you've heard me preach.
You've heard me talk about Yeah. Life. You've heard me talk about three of our four children are adopted. Mm-hmm. You, you could connect the dots very easily. You know where I'm going.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: My job is not to be a politician in the pulpit. My job is to open the scripture to teach his word. Mm-hmm. To encourage you to grow in faith and maturity.
There's no secret who I was gonna vote for.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: But now we did have politicians in the pulpit. [00:07:00] But they were people that could not be voted for in our district.
Mike Glenn: Ah, okay.
Michael Easley: So we had, you know, Indiana Congressman, we had a, a Arkansas congressman. Mm-hmm. We had a former congressman. Um, we had military officers speak.
And so that also gave them an opportunity and, and they often were very right or very whatever. Mm-hmm. And it was very clear that this guy was a conservative or he believed in the Republican agenda or whatever. Uh, our sanctity of Life Sunday
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: Was unapologetic. From being pro-life and pro adoption.
Mm-hmm. And so if you were around that church for any length of time, you knew where we stood. We didn't grind an ax.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: Um, and I, and the few times we got on the edge, we would have people come up and let me know.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: And, and you know, you're always gonna have a bell curve. People are gonna criticize you don't have this or too much of that.
Mike Glenn: Too much of that. So yeah, you get.
Michael Easley: 20
Mike Glenn: on either side.
Michael Easley: Yeah. It's leadership, you know, it's leadership. Being able to have a good answer for people. They, [00:08:00] they love God, they love their church and they're passionate about things.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: And you have to see that Christ loves that person.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: And they may be an irritation, but the Lord loves them nonetheless.
And you gotta love 'em and yeah, you gotta love them. So, yeah.
Mike Glenn: How do you speak on issues
Michael Easley: such as.
Mike Glenn: Uh, abortion.
Michael Easley: Well, to me, that's the sanctity of life. Yeah. Image of God. It's not even a discussion. And, and like I said, our sanctity of life, Sundays were powerful. Mm-hmm. We would have mm-hmm. Uh, women who had had multiple abortions.
We had
Mike Glenn: one
Michael Easley: single mom that had three abortions before she came to Christ.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: And you let her tell her story.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: And it's pretty quiet in that room.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: Um, I never had any pro-abortion provider come up and he'd be mad at me.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: We had an assist, ministry assist crisis pregnancy ministry.
Mm-hmm. Um, if you were there more than five sermons, you knew that Michael had adopted children.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: We had an adoption ministry. So you didn't have to come [00:09:00] out and say, we're anti the party of death. Mm-hmm. Or anti pro-choice. We're pro-life because you said it every other way.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: Um, and we celebrated adoptions and we celebrated, you know, kids, we had a.
Trisomy 18 baby. Which you know a lot about too as a pastor. Yeah. And we celebrated that little girl's life. Mm-hmm. We didn't hide it.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: And she lived about 18 months and we had a huge funeral for that little girl.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: So people get a,
Mike Glenn: that, that's outstanding for that condition.
Michael Easley: They get a Yeah. It was very unusual.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: And, but it was, I mean, there were at least three people who came to Christ in that funeral.
Mike Glenn: Wow.
Michael Easley: So, you know,
Mike Glenn: I often tell people, you know, we live in a time now where the ministry comes before the message. Uh, you know when, when I was first starting, probably U too, we went to the Billy Graham School of Evangelism who said, you start with the Bible says, and that was, and everybody agreed with that.
Now, we may, we may disagree on obedience or [00:10:00] interpretation, but we understood the authority of scripture. Now you have to have a philosophical case before you have the theological case. And people are watching to see what kind of real difference you will make If you are pro-life, then do you support adoption?
Right? Are you actively engaged in that? Are you just, as Jesus said, with the Pharisees, making it hard for other people? Yeah. And not doing anything to help yourself
Michael Easley: do as I say. As I do,
Mike Glenn: right. Yeah.
Michael Easley: My, uh, one of my daughters was in a public school for a particular season, and I think she was in fifth or sixth grade.
I forget the whole context, but they were talking about, as kids do, about abortion.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: And my daughter got her, you know. Hackles up and she was yelling at this girl in the classroom, how can you be from murdering a baby? And they start chiming in, what's a mama's choice and da da da. And the teacher's standing up and, and my daughter says, I can say it [00:11:00] 'cause I wasn't aborted.
I was adopted. Woohoo. That's it.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: And you know, I, we never told her to say any of that.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: Um. So, so there's a way to have influence, you know, in God's kindness far beyond what we think we're doing with a message or a pamphlet or a seminar.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: Um, if you're teaching your people well overall that this is, this is the image of God.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. And then Yeah. And then living it out.
Michael Easley: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Let's go back to, to a comment you made earlier about how we respond. I was interested in, in how you said we should lead. Our, our, our churches. And, and when I asked the question politically, you answered pastorally pastoral care. And that is recognizing the anxiety.
Michael Easley: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and stress that our people are under, um, because they are scared. [00:12:00] They are scared about the future. They are scared about
Michael Easley: Yes.
Mike Glenn: What's gonna happen in my children's school. I mean, I mean, well it's not a logical kind of thing, but, but they are kinda all these things going on in their head and this, this, this, uh, pastoral, uh, opportunity to, uh, alleviate the anxieties.
Michael Easley: Yeah. Yeah. You talk about, we've talked about being grandparents and I often think back when my parents became grandparents Yeah. How their perspectives changed.
Mike Glenn: Oh, wow.
Michael Easley: And I remember the, we've all heard a thousand times I worry for my grandchildren.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: You know, 'cause our runway's short.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: And our kids are adults.
They're mm-hmm. You know, they're stuck.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. They're
Michael Easley: made. That's right. But our, our little baby grandchildren, you know, we die for them. Right. So you understand that compassion and concern for these these people that there is no going back to the nostalgic of the good old days, right? Or I mean, post oppression years or mm-hmm.
You know, the prosperity of the eighties perhaps. Mm-hmm. [00:13:00] But all that said, I, I think. The way people are consuming information today, Mike is the most concerning to me. 'cause they're not consuming it through reading a critical article or watching a jackal journalist as opposed to an opinion person.
Mm-hmm. 99% of what we consume is op-ed. Right. It's not, it's not journalism. Yeah. And very few people know the difference of that today. Mm-hmm. So. Along with being pastoral and care caring for them. I was always trying to be educational to say, learn,
Mike Glenn: right?
Michael Easley: Mm-hmm. Grow. Mm-hmm. Don't just assume because a person you like says X, Y, Z.
That's the truth. I mean, look at. How we went through COVID and the pandemic with the local churches, right? You and I both. I mean, dangerous times. You couldn't make anybody happy,
Mike Glenn: right?
Michael Easley: And, and so there's the place where you have to say, guys, take a deep breath. If you're getting information from. You know, cable news, you probably need to be careful mm-hmm.
If you're getting it from mainstream news, stop.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Michael Easley: Uh, here's some [00:14:00] good aggregates,
Mike Glenn: right.
Michael Easley: That you should look at. And if
Mike Glenn: you're getting for Twitter, just don't, don't even, yeah. Well,
Michael Easley: you know, this, the TikTok and, and, uh, Instagram are more concerning to me than Twitter because the, the age group, right, that's move there.
Mike Glenn: They're targeting
Michael Easley: their formation. Uh, what's the old axiom? If you're young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you're old, not a conservative, you don't have a head.
Mike Glenn: Yeah,
Michael Easley: no brain and I, there's some truth to that 'cause as you get older and perspective. But all that, all that said, back to your question, I pral back to your question.
I, I do think it's theological, it's pastoral, but it's also educational and, um. I don't know where I learned this specifically, but I remember a number of professors in my life that, you know, if you were reading a high school book, they gave you a college book.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: And I had a sixth grade biology teacher give us a 12th grade biology textbook.
And this was a small private school. And, um, he said, you all are smart enough to do [00:15:00] this. I know you can do it and we'll work through it together. I never looked at biology textbook again. I made Straight A's all through college.
Mike Glenn: Yeah,
Michael Easley: because at sixth grade a guy said, you can learn this. That's right. So I think there's an education bridge that we underestimate for people.
Mike Glenn: The old truth will set you free thing
Michael Easley: and read a little more.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: I mean, what are we learning now about the so-called pandemic? Right. Post all this stuff going
Mike Glenn: Well, the thing, the, one of the most important things I learned in my college and seminary experience was learn to read the footnotes.
Michael Easley: Oh yeah.
Mike Glenn: And go find that article. Yep. Or go find that book. Where this come from, where'd this come from, and what's their perspective and, and that kind of stuff. And a book without
Michael Easley: footnotes.
Mike Glenn: That's right. Yeah. Then you become, okay, this,
Michael Easley: that's a piece of fiction.
Mike Glenn: That's right. That's right. That's just so, so, um, uh, both of you are, both of us now are in our, um.
Our, our post [00:16:00] productive years and stuff. I resemble that Mark retired and all that. Uh, but if you were preaching now, what kind of sermons would you be preaching
Michael Easley: and the political time?
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: Uh, I'd go to judges, um, after a nine 11 occurred, I, I preached to the book of judges.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: And I had a lot of pushback until we got into it.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah,
Michael Easley: and what you see in that, it's the darkest days of Israel's history,
Mike Glenn: right?
Michael Easley: And they're far from God. They're living in sin. They're ensco. In debauchery. It gets so bad they cry out for a deliverer. God sends a judge.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: The judge comes in, he, all of them except one, he comes in and pulls some reformation and he may do pretty well, but not great or real good or not so great.
Mm-hmm. And then there'll be a period of rest or peace for seven or 40 years. Mm-hmm. And then cycle washes gonna back
Mike Glenn: again.
Michael Easley: And you also noticed through Israel's history, it starts out with a [00:17:00] national deliverer of a judge. It ends up with individuals like Samson and Gideon, the story about a person.
Mm-hmm. Not about the nation as much. In the earlier, and the reason I taught through judges was it's a chilling book, but God's comment is that the younger people might be taught war. Not teach them to be warriors. Mm-hmm. Not teach 'em to be a military unit. To understand the cost of what this means to have a nation that lives in peace.
And if you obey for the Jew, right, if you obey God blessing is cursings all the way back. Right. God will protect you and bless you. You'll get a good judge and listen to him. You'll, God will protect you. Mm-hmm. You start syncretism and idolatry. And so, and I would use that as a, as a springboard to say I can't fix the country.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: But you and I can look at our sphere.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: Maybe you need to run for school board. Maybe you need run [00:18:00] for the small township council or a, or maybe even a mayor's race. Mm-hmm. Maybe you need to go make phone calls.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: I mean, how you're wired, where your interests are. Don't sit on the sideline and just vetch.
Mike Glenn: So you would not be one of those who, who, who says that a Christian cannot believe, cannot be involved in politics.
Michael Easley: I hope not.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Michael Easley: I, I would love to see a whole group of young men and women get their law degrees and, you know, do mock work and go work a campaign and to see if that's where God would use it.
Mm-hmm. I mean, it's like any area, right? If, if, if Christians are
Mike Glenn: right,
Michael Easley: void of it, there's no voice. Mm-hmm. It takes courage to be a pastor.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: Or a politician.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: Or any public figure you're gonna, I mean. You know, people in the arts industry to be a believer in the arts industry. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Tough.
Michael Easley: It's tough.
So every industry's got his detractors, but
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: The, and the part, the problem with the political field is we, we look at a defeat as the end of the story. It defeats the next chapter. It just, you know, it [00:19:00] is, it just, you keep going. That's right. Yeah. You keep going.
Mike Glenn: There's another fight.
Michael Easley: I mean, look at Lincoln.
Mm-hmm. You know how many times he ran. Mm-hmm. So it's. That's a mindset a person has to have people around him or her to encourage 'em in that regard and walk with 'em. But I mean, obviously in Virginia, DC we were chock full of politicians and people that were operatives. Mm-hmm. Speech. We had presidential speech writers in the audience talk about intimidating group to preach to.
Um, but, uh, they loved Christ.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: And they taught Sunday school and their kids were in the children's program. Mm-hmm. And Awana and whatever else. Yeah. And they were there teaching at the Christian school and, and they loved God and they happened to work on the hill, or they happened to be in the White House, or they happened to be.
Over at Fort Belvoir.
Mike Glenn: Okay, so what's the first we wrap this thing up. What's the one, two, or three things you wanna be sure a pastor knows and walking, walking through this political time?
Michael Easley: Don't underestimate your power to encourage and equip your people.
Mike Glenn: Mm.
Michael Easley: Have courage.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: I think most of [00:20:00] our young guys are a little bit afraid of everything.
Right. Have courage now. Pray, be wise. Don't go, you know, waxing extemporaneous. Think about what you're gonna say. Uh, secondly is, you know, lead your people. Lead them. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: That's
Michael Easley: whys why they're there. You're a leader. Yeah. There's why they're there. Why are you there? If you're not leading them, you're gonna take some darts.
That's okay. You'll heal.
Mike Glenn: That's right. That's just the price of leadership.
Michael Easley: They make thinner Kevlar these days. You, you know,
Mike Glenn: wear it under there.
Michael Easley: And, and I, and third, and we didn't talk about this at all, but I say have some people in your church that. You'll listen to that. You'll trust them to say, Hey Michael, you don't need to, and I had that.
I'm sure you have too. Over the years that guys pulled me aside, not publicly say, I love you, but don't do this again.
Mike Glenn: Yeah,
yeah.
Michael Easley: Don't do this again. I had an elder in between services. I used a graphic one time. Mm-hmm. A picture from the media at the first service, and he came says, don't use that graphic again.
I said, well, he goes, let's, let's not talk, let's talk about it later.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: I trusted him enough to say. Right. He's not, he's not a critic.
Mike Glenn: [00:21:00] No, no. He's,
Michael Easley: he's, he's
Mike Glenn: there for your best
Michael Easley: interest. Right. So if you don't have that, you're in trouble.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Michael Easley: You need to cultivate it and you know, they're not gonna maybe be best friends, but you gotta have people you trust to tell you the truth.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Michael Easley: Because you're gonna need him on both sides of the issue. Mm-hmm. Whether you're in trouble or whether you need encouragement. Support.
Mike Glenn: Tell 'em about your podcast before we get outta here.
Michael Easley: Uh, we have two different ones. We have Ask Dr. E, which is a 10 minute short format where people submit questions and I try to answer 'em in 10 minutes or less.
I try and then we have, uh, can
Mike Glenn: you do anything in 10 minutes or less? Nah,
Michael Easley: not any preacher. I know certain people anyway. Um, but, uh, and the other one's called Michael Easley in context. Mm-hmm. And those, we interview authors and people in, um, we might say just positions of. Subject matter expertise. Most of 'em are a whole lot smarter than me, and so I interview them.
In fact, we're doing a whole series on up to the political times. Yeah. How to think about economics and military and mm-hmm. The L-G-B-T-Q-A thing, we're, we're talking to men and women [00:22:00] about these subjects. So that's more of a, a full on 40 minute interview.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, that's my favorite one with that. So my name's Mike Glenn, his name is Michael Easley.
We're glad that you have joined us for this Engaged Church Network podcast and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.
