Why Every Minister Needs a Group – Even If They Think They Don't
Are you one of those people who hates small groups? You’re not alone. In this episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast, Mike Glenn sits down with longtime friend and entrepreneur Spencer Patton to talk about their journey from small group skeptics to committed members of a thriving, life-changing group.
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Mike Glenn: Hi, I am Mike Glenn and I am the president of the Engaged Church Network, and we are glad that you have joined us here for today's podcast. Our special guest today is my longtime friend, uh, Spencer Patton. Now I have known Spencer. Since he was well, were you outta diapers yet when we met? And all that kind of said maybe just right around
Spencer Patton: seven years old.
So I was, but
Mike Glenn: I have known him most of his life and uh, I have had the privilege of being his friend and watching him grow up and watching him get into his businesses. And one of the reasons I like hanging around Spence is he's always got his hand into something. He's always got another idea. He's an entrepreneur and we could, we could talk a long time about your business experience, but I wanna tell you about one lunch that he and I had, uh, four, four and a half years ago.
Uh, our church at the time was making a major emphasis that everybody [00:01:00] be in a group. Everybody has to be in some kind of small group, Sunday school, Bible study, whatever. Uh, and I wasn't in a group here, I was the senior pastor telling everybody to be in a group, and I wasn't in a group. And there's an, there's an easy reason for that.
Like most guys, I hate groups. I don't like 'em. Uh, they're, they're clumsy to me. I'm uncomfortable with 'em. Uh, so I'm talking to Spence and we're talking about everything going on in his life. And so I just look at him and go, Hey, Spence, what group are you in? And Spence says, I'm not in a group. And I said, why not?
He said. I hate groups. I said, all right, here's what we're gonna do. I said, call three or four of your friends. Get a group together. I said, I'll do it. He says, why would you do it? I said, well, I gotta be in a group and they gonna put me in a group with a bunch of people. I don't like if, uh, if, if I don't take control of this.
And so, four and a half years later. We're still meeting [00:02:00] Wednesday morning about 6 30, 6 45. I did not choose that time. Uh, and lately with it being so cold, I have, uh, resented every moment getting outta my warm bed and driving, uh, over to your office for us to have it. But let, let's talk about that moment.
Uh, you had obviously heard everything that, that we had been talking about, uh, about small group and all of that, and you had sat there and go, Nope, I'm not gonna do that.
Spencer Patton: That's right. You know, groups. For me, I had been a part of Bible study groups on and off for much of my life, so the concept of being in a group was something that I wanted to be a part of.
But what would happen is I would get in a group and there would always be that guy. That guy in the group that in some way they hijack the group and it morphs into something that it's already tough enough when you're sharing something. Really authentic about yourself, right? [00:03:00] Being vulnerable and if someone wants to make the group about them or about some agenda, it just seems like it doesn't last and it doesn't live, and the disappointment.
Of having to leave the group kind of makes you say, you know what, maybe I'm just not a group guy. Right. Like maybe I'm the problem. Maybe that guy is not the issue and I'm the problem.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Doesn't play well with others that uh,
Spencer Patton: yeah. And I'm an only child. Right. And you know, there was a reason why I had imaginary friends growing up.
It's like, maybe that's just my lot in life. Yeah. And that's okay. And so I came to that lunch. Importantly, Carli, my wife, had been praying for years that I would find a group,
Mike Glenn: well, we should have known we were done for
Spencer Patton: Absolutely right. We
Mike Glenn: should have known.
Spencer Patton: I get chill bumps even saying it because Carli, without me knowing, was praying for years that I would find the right group.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Spencer Patton: And in those brief moments where I'd be in a group for a season, she'd be really happy. [00:04:00] So. Sitting there at Jay Alexander's, which I'm pretty convinced is like your second office. So you've got a reserved booth at Jay's, right? Uh, so sitting there and we were just having a super casual lunch conversation and literally outta nowhere you.
Pop the group question. Mm-hmm. And I kind of was ready to play a little defense with you. I knew that I wasn't in a group and I'm sitting across from the senior pastor, and so I better have a, a good answer here. And you know, I just figured you'd maybe have a mild expression of disappointment and then we'd move on to, you know, jail, Alexander's carrot cake or something like that.
But when you said, Hey, I'll lead it. It just stopped me dead in my tracks because I had the opportunity to learn from the pastor that had been my pastor for, you know, 30 years at that point in time. So it got my full attention, and the Lord tends to have to do that with me in particular.
Mike Glenn: So you call your friends [00:05:00] what happens in that conversation?
Spencer Patton: So
Mike Glenn: now we've had people come and go, but the, the, the original core is pretty strong.
Spencer Patton: The, the core of the group, I wanted to be super intentional about inviting people that I expressly wanted to do life with because I wanted this group to stick. So since the Lord had kinda given me the opportunity here to handpick the people that I wanted in the group, I was like, okay, well I really can't.
Place the blame on that guy because I'm literally getting to architect the group. So I reached out to different friends of mine and just said, Hey, listen, I don't know if you're in a group. Most of them weren't. Mm-hmm. I struggle because my peers. The people that I'm friends with are generally 15 to 20 years older than me, so I've had a lot of entrepreneurial success.
I started having kids at 25 years old, had four kids in my early thirties. Most people [00:06:00] I couldn't relate to or couldn't relate to me unless they were 15 or 20 years older. So I went to a handful of friends and said, we have an incredible opportunity to. Get to learn from a pastor that has done this at the very highest level.
And I, some of them went to Brentwood Baptist, most of them didn't. And so I said, you don't wanna miss this. Come and learn and help. Be accountability for me too, because we all know it's just like going to a gym. If you don't have someone that you are disappointing by not showing up, I ain't going.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. And, uh. And I told you a story from, from last Wednesday where everybody in the group ended up calling one of our friends that night to hold him accountable to a promise he had made to us, uh, that morning. So we have this group. It is mostly young white guys like you, and then one day I bring the ringer in.
And, uh, you guys are sitting and, [00:07:00] and Bebe Winans, uh, the gospel singer joins our group. Uh, obviously Bebe is, uh, African American, uh, and, uh, we've added other African Americans to the group since then. It's been good. But I'm with Bebe, same thing. Bebe says, man, I, I'm on the road. I sing, I come home. I'm kind of lonely.
And I just look at him and go, Hey, six 30 in the morning here. And he shows up.
Spencer Patton: Yeah. Uh,
Mike Glenn: and, and walks in, which starts an entirely new level of friendship. Uh, I mean, you guys end up going to the Apollo to hear him sing and he introduces you, uh, as his, as his white brothers.
Spencer Patton: This is an amazing story. So I, I, I gotta tell this, it takes 60 seconds, but it's phenomenal.
So. Bebe, I am so musically illiterate that names I, I, it's not my gifting Mike. Mm-hmm. And so I had no concept of Bebe's success and how phenomenal God [00:08:00] has gifted him in his talents. Mm-hmm. So he wanted us in the Bible study to have the opportunity to see a short. Tour that he was going on and it was gonna be in the Apollo in New York and I didn't know anything about the Apollo.
And so it was a an incredible cultural moment to be able to have Bebe give our group some exposure to say, Hey. I live a lot in your world. You know, BB talking to us. Mm-hmm. I live a lot in your world. He likes to joke. He's like, I'm a a black man in Brentwood. That's right. And, and and he's very lighthearted about that.
Yeah. But it's also, you can tell the intentionality behind what he is talking about. He said, come into my world a bit and let me bring you into Harlem, Apollo. And we were in this theater. Beautiful. You could just. Feel the history dripping off the walls in there. And he is in the middle of his act, Mike, I mean the middle of his act.
And in between [00:09:00] transitions between songs, he identifies that his Bible study group is here in the audience and he has a stand up. We're in the balcony up there. Yeah, as a stand up, the lights come on us. And he said. If you're wondering who it is, it's the only white people in the whole building and the whole auditorium just looks at us.
Yeah. And I tell you, it was funny, the room was rolling with laughter. Mm-hmm. But it united us in a bond to say we're all brothers in Christ. Yeah. And we can all learn something. And he took me to his church that he went to. That's right. Growing up there. Mm-hmm. And that was an incredible experience. So different than Brentwood Baptist Church.
Mm-hmm. It just brought a sense of brotherhood and connection that I have never forgotten.
Mike Glenn: So if someone were to stop you and say, Hey, you, you didn't like groups, now you're in a group you won't miss. Uh, and you were out of town this last week, but zoomed in with us. So, you know, [00:10:00] that's a kind of a different level of commitment with that.
What would you tell them? Of why it's important to you and how it's impacted your life.
Spencer Patton: So my understanding of the word prior to group was really quite novice. I mean, I had been in the church for 30 years and I knew in my heart that the Lord was alive and I could trace his hand. In reverse of looking at things that had been done in my life.
So I felt like my, my faith was strong, but if you needed me to be able to point to the scriptural support, what's the, what are the, the pillars holding it up? It wasn't there. Mm-hmm. The group allowed me to do a couple things. Number one, be able to learn from someone that has spent. Your whole life in the scripture.
[00:11:00] And I think that's really, really important in groups that when you have the opportunity to learn from someone who has made it their life mission, their mastery. It really allows you to set aside all of the excuses that you may have to not show up. You know, I don't wanna get outta bed or, you know, whatever it is.
It's like I have the chance to learn. And that led to a, an incredible deepening in my understanding of the word. Um, and then beyond that, it was the. Total confidentiality of that group. Right. And that is really, really important because there's stuff shared in that group that. It can't be shared outside that room, and that's how it's supposed to be.
And I think you've always been really intentional when new people have come in to say, and you look him dead in the eye too. I mean, you're a pretty nice guy. You laugh, you're good. But I see a [00:12:00] different Mike Glenn when you're like, Hey, these things are confidential.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Spencer Patton: And, and I really think that's a core component of the group too.
Mike Glenn: You know, I have, I have, since we have started the group, I've, I've stepped aside from being the senior pastor now doing the Engaged Church Network, but it's one of the things that traditionally, normally, um, uh. You would have given it up, you would've said, Hey, I'm gonna do some other things now, and that kind of stuff.
And I haven't given it up every time Jean said, you got by, I'm gonna study the morning. Yeah. She said, I thought you was going to give that up. I said, well, every time I show up, somebody's life gets changed.
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, and so I want to get back next week. I don't wanna leave in the middle of the story. And, uh, and we, we've had guys whose marriages have been transformed.
Uh, there's been, uh, uh, healing of, of, of, of family wounds where people have finally been able to get to some level of forgiveness and release some stuff. Uh, even now, some of our [00:13:00] friends are dealing with stuff, but they come back and say, here's where I am.
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, the, the other, uh, thing is, is how quickly, uh, if, if you tell somebody, Hey, I need your prayer about this.
It won't be a couple of hours. You'll get a text.
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Hey, once you to know I'm, I heard you this morning and I'm praying for you. Um, you know, my, my wife was sick last couple of weeks and, and got regular texts from just regular guys going, Hey, I'm here if you need me.
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, that kind of stuff, uh, for guys.
Uh, this is an incredible, uh, thing. Most guys don't know who to call at three o'clock in the morning if they're in trouble.
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: They don't, they don't have anybody they can call. Um, and the other thing is they don't have anybody to celebrate with.
Spencer Patton: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, there's nobody where you can go say, Hey, [00:14:00] I did this.
Well, right now we're having a lot of fun with Bebe because Bebe has invented a glove. That's right.
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Alright. And, and it's got a mirror because Bebe jogs all the time. It's got a mirror in it, so if you're running you can check. Well, he brought it and showed it to us, and so we've been praying with Bebe about this adventure.
Mm-hmm. And he's having phenomenal success.
Spencer Patton: It's got a patented,
Mike Glenn: it got a patent and, and all that stuff. And we are able to celebrate with Bibe. We're able to celebrate when, uh, when children, uh, achieve certain things. We're able to, uh, to, to say to a guy when he says, you know, I got lucky here. And said, no, you didn't get lucky.
This is what you prayed for. This is how you worked for it, and now this is, this is how God has blessed you. So. Hmm. We got a lot of people out here, uh, but Spence, who are are, who are just like us, they don't like groups. Now, here's the first thing I wanna say to you. If you don't like a group, then that's God's way of telling you you need to start a [00:15:00] group.
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Uh, call a couple of friends that you know, don't want to do groups and start a small group. Uh, so to all our friends out here, Liz, what would you tell 'em? Sp.
Spencer Patton: Yeah. So beginning with the understanding that we are called to do this life in community.
Mike Glenn: Right?
Spencer Patton: Okay. There is no such thing as Jesus sending people out one by one.
Mike Glenn: Right? That's right.
Spencer Patton: It was two by two at a minimum.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Spencer Patton: So knowing that community is specified for us. Mm-hmm. And you said it right, that if you're one of those people that. Has not found a group where you fit.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Spencer Patton: It is imperative that you create the group because if you fail to create the group, there are 5, 6, 7, 8 other guys that you're also failing
Mike Glenn: and you don't know it yet
Spencer Patton: and you don't know it yet because their [00:16:00] call would have been to be in your group.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Spencer Patton: So. If that doesn't get you over the hump, then it's time to reaccess a heart posture. And, and I'll say this too, a lot of people in going to church say, how's this church gonna serve me? How's it gonna meet my needs? Is the music ride right? Is the lighting ride, is it the right distance from my house?
And all these different things? And it's like, you know what? Maybe the better question is, how can I serve?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Spencer Patton: And if you instead get a heart posture to say, I'm gonna show up and serve, and let's see what happens from there.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Spencer Patton: Because man, wasn't that Christ's posture of saying, I'm gonna show up and serve, and then look at all the things that transpire.
They'll
Mike Glenn: say What happens next?
Spencer Patton: That's right. So even if you don't end up getting anything outta the group, which you will, but even if you can't convince yourself, you will. Start by serving. Mm-hmm. And watch what happens.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. Everybody needs to be in a group, [00:17:00] and so we want to encourage you to get in a small group, especially pastors, uh, you, you pastors are by themselves way too much.
So start your group where you have a band of brothers who can, uh, who could walk this journey with you. This is Spencer Patton. Spencer, thanks for being here, and we're glad you have joined us on this episode of the Engaged Church Network Podcast.
Spencer Patton: Thank you, Mike.
