Why This PhD Student Walked Away to Follow God’s Calling
What happens when God calls you to something completely unexpected? In this episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast, Mike Glenn sits down with Tommy Rhodes, the founder and executive director of Barefoot Republic, a multicultural Christian summer camp ministry.
-
Mike Glenn: Hi, I'm Mike Glenn, and I am the president of the Engaged Church Network, and you have joined us today on this podcast, and we're glad to welcome you. Today, our guest is Tommy Rhodes. Tommy is, uh, the president, executive director, chief bottle washer, anything needs to be done, at Barefoot Republic. Uh, and it is a, uh, camp ministry, uh, that, uh, Tommy and his wife started several years ago.
And here's the reason I wanna talk to Tommy. Uh, we are in a very interesting time- Mm ... uh, in church life, and that is there is so much going on in our world, so much broken, uh, so many opportunities to make difference in people's lives, that the Lord is calling people to unique ministries outside of the traditional ministries of the church.
Now, usually, when we talk about, uh, do you feel God's call in your life, we're talking about [00:01:00] worship leadership, we're talking about preaching or that kind of stuff. Uh, Tommy felt a very different call. So, so Tommy, let's, let's go back. Uh, y- you are in school. Mm-hmm. Uh, you, you... I mean, you got your life planned.
You're gonna be a doctor, some, some kind of medical field. Uh- Yeah, I was pursuing
Tommy Rhodes: a PhD at Vanderbilt- PhD, yeah ... in genetic medicine.
Mike Glenn: And,
Tommy Rhodes: uh- Three years in ... so,
Mike Glenn: so-
Tommy Rhodes: Wife thought she married a hotshot scientist. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, uh, and, and that's not the kind of thing that, that when I graduate with a PhD in genetics, that I have a lot of auxiliary options, right?
I mean, you're gonna do something in genetics, uh, with this. Mm. But you're in the middle of that, and God starts doing something else in your life. So talk to me about that.
Tommy Rhodes: Yeah, I mean, really, the Lord just placed me in an incredible lab at Vanderbilt, and for me, science was kind of a means to an end.
Mm-hmm. I came from a low-income background, kid-raising-a-kid scenario, and then God gives me this vision to start a summer camp, you know, at [00:02:00] 20. And I'm thinking, "I don't have two pennies to rub together." Right. "How would I ever do something like this?" So in my small mind, I felt like, "Well, let me just put my head down, Lord, and, you know-" Right
"get all these degrees, become successful, and maybe retire early-" Mm-hmm ... at 40, 50, 60. Um, and so that was kind of where I was at that point in my life. And fortunately, I met a believer at Vanderbilt. I'll never forget, her name was Lee Ann. And I was just kind of lamenting one day, 'cause a lot of my peers felt like I was kind of on the fast track, 'cause I was having a lot of worldly success- Right
at Vanderbilt, publishing papers in some of the top journals in the world. And- Mm-hmm ... you know, I was just kind of sharing this emptiness I was feeling inside. And I'll never forget, Lee Ann was like, "Well, Tommy, did you, did you pray about becoming a scientist?" And I was like, "No." "I just thought if Vanderbilt offered you a quarter-million-dollar scholarship-" Yeah, no kidding
you said, "Thank you very much. What do I start?" That, that's obviously the Lord's will, right? Yes. Yeah. Yes. And so really, I mean, what she was asking me was, "You know, are you being obedient?" you know, the call on your life. Mm-hmm. And I wasn't. You know, I was trying to [00:03:00] do this vision God gave me in my own strength.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, we always, we always think that Satan will tempt us with hard things or painful things or destructive things, and he was tempting you with success. That's right.
Tommy Rhodes: Yeah, that was the carrot- Yeah ... we were all chasing at Vanderbilt. Yeah. And, and for me, I was fortunate enough to experience some success early.
Mm-hmm. Because there were a lot of guys there that I met- Right ... that had been chasing that carrot for 40 years. So that was the turning point for us. But it's not
Mike Glenn: where you're supposed to be.
Tommy Rhodes: That's right. So- So
Mike Glenn: you go home and tell your wife.
Tommy Rhodes: She had, she had heard the pipe dream- Yeah ... about one day starting a summer camp.
One, one day. Yeah. Yeah. What she didn't expect was- But she didn't think it was gonna be Monday ... that's right. She wasn't anticipating me saying, "Hey, honey, I think we're supposed to have a yard sale- Yeah ... and, and sell our possessions, and I think I'm supposed to, you know, step away from Vanderbilt and go do this now."
Yeah. And that's what God was orchestrating. Now, that had happened kind of over a period of six months. Right. Yeah. You know, we had found some lake lots a little north of Nashville, uh, discovered Baron [00:04:00] River Lake, which was just so affordable compared to like Tims Ford- Right ... and Center Hill. And, you know, I'd done a little due diligence just dreaming.
Mm-hmm. And, uh, just the way God opened doors and we landed there, I felt like the Lord was saying, "Not only is this the place, but now this is the time." You know, so she had a little bit of a heads-up, but like I said, you know, kinda cutting that cord- Right ... selling our possessions, you know, ultimately my baseball card collection, uh, 'cause eBay came along back in the late '90s.
Yeah, which was no, which
Mike Glenn: was no small- I mean, for those of you who do not collect baseball cards, this was- This was a nice collection ... this was a nice collection. Yeah. And- It was really my
Tommy Rhodes: refuge as a kid. Yeah. You know, I could just kinda lose myself in my card collections- Right ... when there was chaos at home.
Which was your favorite card? That I let go of, probably my Nolan Ryan rookie from 1968. Oh. Yeah. Loved watching- Oh ... Ryan play, and of course- Yeah ... he spanned my whole childhood- Right. Sure. Yeah ... into young adulthood, 'cause he played for so long. Yeah. Yeah, so loved the Ryan Express. Um, that was painful to let that one go.
But that was the [00:05:00] call. It was the call, you know? And to think that God had a plan and a purpose for an eight-year-old kid that was riding around, you know, on a banana seat bicycle with binders under his arms, you know, swapping cards- Mm-hmm ... was just so cool to me. You know, I didn't come to faith until I was 16 through a mutual friend, Mack Hannah- Yeah
who was the closest thing I had- Right ... to a dad. Mm-hmm. And, uh, we had started over in Nashville after my mom's divorce, and, uh, Mack just loved me unconditionally. And, uh, just looking back- Yeah,
Mike Glenn: Mack did that for a lot of people, didn't he? Oh, he sure did. Yeah.
Tommy Rhodes: Just loved me right where I was. Yeah. And, uh, got to go to a church camp, and, uh, that gave me the space, uh, to ask him, "What was so different about you?"
'Cause he'd been walking with me for over a year. Mm-hmm. And I was a knucklehead, you know, teenager, 15, 16 years old. Mm-hmm. And, uh, he pointed back to the gospel. He's like, "Tommy, I'm just trying to love you like Jesus loves you." And I was a little, it was a little awkward, you know? Right. Yeah. Quite frankly, I'd never experienced that type of un- unconditional love before.
So that's when I made a profession of faith, at 16. Yeah. And that was really what [00:06:00] got me on this track, you know, to go be a camp, a camp counselor when I was 20.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. So you go, you go be the count- the, the camp counselor, and is that it? Is that when it's deepened into this is what you're gonna do the rest of your life- It is
this is your calling? You
Tommy Rhodes: know, I mean, God has such a amazing sense of humor. Doesn't he? I mean, it's just incredible. It, uh... I mean, I was, I was a tennis player in college, and this camp needed a, a tennis player. Um, and, and I went to Hillwood High School. Mm-hmm. This was back when Montgomery Bell Academy- Mm-hmm
was in our district. And, you know, our, our team, we would lose before the match even began. Yeah. You know, 'cause we felt like we were pulling into Hogwarts, and, you know- ... kids were pulling out, like, seven rackets- Yeah, that's right. ... with different tensions and grip diameters. And your tennis
Mike Glenn: shoes didn't
Tommy Rhodes: match.
Exactly, yeah. They got coaches. The tennis shoes. You know, we had the biology teacher who would be like, "Hey, Toby, I think tennis season's starting next week." Yeah, yeah. "Put together a scramble or whatever it is y'all do." Yeah. "Just let me know who's on the team, buddy." Yeah. "Thanks." You know? And so that was how he kinda got his, you know, additional, you know, stipend for the year.
Yeah. And so I'm, I'm thinking, "Wow, Lord, you know, this is a camp for affluent kids." Mm-hmm. And [00:07:00] I'm thinking, "I'm not gonna have anything in common with these kids. You know, they're not gonna like me. I'm not gonna like them. I can't imagine, like, building relationships and teaching them how to play tennis all summer."
Mm-hmm. I mean, what have I gotten myself into? And I, I get there, and, uh, they actually, you know, asked me to be a cabin counselor, and I, I thought I was living in the lake house all summer. Right, right. And I'm just like, "Did y'all do a background check?" You know, it's like, "I don't need to be responsible for anybody's life."
That's right. You know? It's like, what are you talking about, you know? And I'll never forget, I mean, the mom's just like scared the crap out of me. I mean, they're walking in- Mm-hmm ... asking me all these questions. I've been there for, like, 12 minutes. Yeah. You know, I'm like, "Where's my CIT?" You know, "Forest, help," you know?
Yeah, yeah. The moms leave. These eight- and nine-year-old boys are just looking up at me like, "Hey, Mr. Tommy, what's next?" Yeah, what, yeah. And it's a two-week beginner session, and they start sharing their stories with me. And man, Mike, it was just so just transformational for me because all those, like, my friend calls them painful gifts- Mm-hmm
that I had experienced in my [00:08:00] life, and they were kinda like why me questions for me- Mm-hmm ... spiritually at this time. I just met my dad for the first time. Uh, just all these struggles we were having at home, uh, with my mom, and these kids were walking through the same stuff, despite coming from radically different economic backgrounds.
And so I just thought, you know, "Oh, they're rich kids." Right. "They've got it easy." Yeah. And they're going through divorce, you know. Mm-hmm. Their parents are alcoholics. Their parents are verbally abusive. You know, their dad- Mm ... you know, has a drug addiction, and it's just like wow, Lord, I mean, you're allowing these things that have hurt me to speak truth and encouragement- Mm
into these eight-, nine-year-old boys. And this is back in the early '90s- Right ... when we still wrote letters. Mm-hmm. And so I've still got a box of these letters from these kids. You know, they would go home and just write me throughout the summer just thanking me, you know, for hanging out with them. Wow. And I'll never forget, I got the courage to call my mom at the end of the summer 'cause I had a friend, uh, that kinda married into a more affluent family, started going to this camp, you know, when I was in middle school.
And I was like, "Mom, I mean, you knew Shawn was going. [00:09:00] I mean, you knew I didn't have a dad or- Mm ... any male role models as a kid. I, I can't imagine what it would've meant, you know, for a college guy to, like, hang out with me- Mm-hmm ... you know, wanna shoot basketball- Mm-hmm ... sit on a bench and have a conversation.
I think it would've changed- Right. Yeah ... everything. You know, 'cause I was making lots of bad decisions, just kinda modeling, you know, the behaviors and the patterns that I saw- Right ... you know, behind closed doors- Mm-hmm ... at our house. Uh, and I'll never forget, she's like, "Well, Tommy, did you, did you ask him how much it cost?"
And I was just like, wow. And so my, my frustration kinda shifted, you know, from my mom, who didn't deserve it- Right ... you know, to God. Mm-hmm. You know? And I'll never forget, I was going on a run and just kinda, like, having this wrestling match, you know, with the Lord and just feeling like this was so unfair.
You know, every kid deserves to, like, be in this type of environment Mm-hmm And I just felt like the Holy Spirit was saying, "You're right, so why don't you do something about that?" So that was really where the journey began- Yeah. Right ... at 20 and why I got so committed, you know, to my academic, you know, [00:10:00] pursuits because all I could think of was like, "Man, this is gonna cost a lot of money."
Yeah, and I've gotta be able to fund it. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, so I didn't know anything about nonprofit, for-profit. I didn't know anything about business- Right ... I didn't know at this point in my life. Yeah, not
Mike Glenn: if you're getting a
Tommy Rhodes: PhD in genetics. That's right. That's- You live in the lab. That's it. That's, that's all you do.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Do not leave that
Mike Glenn: microscope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. What happens the first time y- you really sit down and start putting the plan on the legal pad? Yeah.
Tommy Rhodes: And
Mike Glenn: no way, no way you do the math does it add up. No.
Tommy Rhodes: And it's so funny that you say legal pad, 'cause my mom, you know, who's still alive, uh, she's not a believer, you know, been praying for her since I was- Mm-hmm
16 years old. Uh, she had gotten a accounting degree while working at IHOP- Yeah ... you know, as a single mom with me in her hip. And, uh, HCA brought her to Nashville after her divorce. Wow. And so she started, like, living the American dream- Uh-huh ... and climbing the corporate ladder. And about this time, you know, I'm 26 years old, she's having a lot of success, and I, I go and [00:11:00] share this with her, and she's like, "Have you lost your mind?"
I mean, "Are you really gonna leave Vanderbilt and walk away- Yeah ... from this PhD? You're crazy." You know, and she'd heard the pipe dream too. Mm-hmm. She just thought, "That'll never happen." That's right, yeah. Or, "It's a long ways away. Surely he's not gonna, you know, sacrifice his education- Right ... that he's been blessed with."
Uh, but she challenged me to put together a business plan. Mm-hmm. And I mean, I had the camp priced down to the fork, Mike. I mean, I felt like I was prepared for this presentation to my mom. And I start flipping through the legal pad, and she was just laughing. And I'm like, "Mom, this is like my dream. I mean, I've spent hours on this.
What, what is so funny?" You know? And she's like, "Don't y'all use Microsoft Excel at Vanderbilt?" And I was just like, "Oh my goodness. Are you kidding me right now? That's what you're thinking about?" Yeah. Uh, but yes, I mean, it seemed insurmountable- Yeah ... you know, at the time. And, and that's when she challenged me.
She's like, "Well, you gotta find some land. You know, you're gonna have to have some seed money." Right. And that's what got us on the track of having these yard sales and selling that card collection. Yeah. And I'll never forget coming to [00:12:00] her and showing her my bank statement, 'cause we needed about $20,000 to put down- Mm-hmm
on this piece of property that the camp now sits on- Mm-hmm ... on Barron River Lake. And, uh, she was just like, "Are you kidding me? There's not enough plasma in your body. There's... H- how in the world are you coming up with 20K?" You know? She's like, "Clearly you're doing something illegal." And I was like, "You remember those baseball cards?"
And I mean, we used to go round and round with these cards- Right ... kind of have them strewn all over the house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? And she's like, "Are you kidding me? All those cards you've been lugging around in that little SentrySafe- Yeah ... you know, for all these years are worth $20,000?" So that was just a really cool God moment- Yeah
you know, for me. And so that, that's where it all began. Mm-hmm. Uh, but what was even crazier, Mike, was our vision. I mean, at the time there were 8,500 camps in the United States, and the one little twist we wanted to put on Christian camping, about half of them would say they were Christ-centered. Mm-hmm.
But we couldn't find a camp that was like truly Multicultural, multi-economic, you know, [00:13:00] multiracial. I mean, just we wanted to, like, be this active living response to Jesus's prayer in John 17. Mm-hmm. Where he prays that all the believers- So that they would all be one ... would be one. Mm-hmm. And we're like, "Surely, you know, if unity and reconciliation can work anywhere, it's at summer camp."
Yeah, it should be church. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, at the church, absolutely. Try, try it when at camp. Yeah. But yeah, with camp, you know- Mm-hmm ... a Christ-centered camp, I mean, everybody is like, "What did my mom get me into?" Yeah. "What did my youth pastor sign me up for?" You know, you can't really bring your reputation with you.
Right. Yeah. So it just, it levels the playing field for these kids, and they're all coming in- Uh-huh ... just, like, so vulnerable. Mm-hmm. You know, and just trying to figure out, "How do I fit in?" I mean, they don't realize that I'm the star middle linebacker of my football team, but on the flip side, they don't realize I'm the misfit- Right
that doesn't have any friends in the youth group. Mm-hmm. And so they're just like putty in your hands. And if you can just, like, be intentional in the programming- Mm-hmm ... and just love them- Yeah. Yeah ... like those, you know, kids that we had, you know, back at Camp Mac in '99. Mm-hmm. It's incredible what God can do in five days.
So what
Mike Glenn: happens when you start talking, uh, about [00:14:00] your dream and you're really getting to where it is, is, is gonna happen, so you start talking to faith leaders- Yes ... church leaders- Demoralizing ... about, about what... Whoa.
Tommy Rhodes: It was demoralizing. I mean, and just to be- How so? ... just to be honest. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: No, I mean, that's- You know.
That's why we're talking, because- Yeah. Here, here's the mad
Tommy Rhodes: scientist- Yeah ... who God gave a vision to- Right ... who sold everything and literally bought the farm. And I was thinking, "We need to come under the umbrella of somebody who knows how to do summer camp." Uh-huh. 'Cause I don't have a clue. You know, and I'm just like, I just feel like I'm a vessel at this point.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I'm, like, studying all these camps through the American Camping Association, Christian Camping International, and just trying to figure out, like- Yeah, the same discipline- ... who's in this space ... you brought to genetics you're now bringing to camping. Exactly. Right. Yeah. So doing the due diligence.
Mm-hmm. And I thought if we could just come under their umbrella and be their multicultural arm of their ministry- Mm-hmm ... they've already got the curriculum figured out. I mean, the logistics, the transporta- I mean, they, they got everything figured out. Mm-hmm. I don't know how to do any of that stuff.
Right. [00:15:00] And so we spent two years networking to all these Mr. and Miss Teenage Americas, you know, that were, like, third, fourth generation Christian camping. Mm-hmm. And some of them would meet with me, you know? And usually the message was, "Man, brother, I love you. I love your heart, but it's not gonna work." And I'm just like, "Oh, my goodness.
I mean, uh, did, did you hear my story?" Yeah. You know, "I've, I've got this farm." I mean, well- Mm-hmm ... "God's called me," you know? Mm-hmm. And they're just like The, the needs of the kids are too different, Tommy. And some of these camps were for-profit. Right. And they had a heart for low-income kids. And so what they would do is, like, s- establish a nonprofit arm- Mm-hmm
and use a lot of these proceeds, you know, 'cause camps- Mm-hmm ... are profitable. A- a- and they put it into a foundation and, and started this for low-income kids. Mm-hmm. And it was so perplexing, Mike, because, I mean, it was very similar facilities, programs, staff. I mean, everything was the same except for the affluent kids were over here and the poor kids were over here.
Right. [00:16:00] And I just, as humbly as I could, just asked the question. I was like, "I mean, isn't this what Jesus was all about? I mean, i- is there anything to be gained- Yeah ... from having rich and poor together, Black, White, Hispanic, and refugee together at the same place at the same time?" Right. And the resounding feedback was, "The needs of the kids are too different, and you're gonna dilute yourself, Tommy, if you push all these different demographics together."
Mm-hmm. Five days isn't long enough. Two weeks isn't long enough- Mm-hmm ... to bridge all these gaps and tear- Right ... down these walls. And so after two years of, like, the Lord closing doors, I come back to Franklin, Tennessee, of all places, and, uh, there was a pastor named Scott Rolley and another pastor named Denny Denson- Mm-hmm
who had created Empty Hands Fellowship. Right. Mm-hmm. And, uh, an African American pastor named Chris Williamson invited me to go share- Right ... at Empty Hands Fellowship. Right.
Mike Glenn: Now, Empty Hands, for those of you who do not know, was a movement of, of churches in the Franklin area- That's right ... uh, to respond to the poverty [00:17:00] issues in Franklin.
Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, Williamson County is affluent, uh, but not every part of Williamson County is affluent. That's right. And there were significant pockets that were being overlooked- Mm-hmm ... and Scott Rolley and others, uh, had the burden for this. And Scott eventually Retired from his church, resigned and, and actually moved in and did this, this, this, uh- Oh, he, yeah-
cross-cultural
Tommy Rhodes: thing ... he did Uh. He had a huge heart for racial- Yeah ... reconciliation. Right. And the other pastor that co-founded it, you know, he's a former Black Panther. Right. And these two pastors were kind of sharing space in Franklin- Mm-hmm ... and they were at odds a- and the Lord just brought them together and created one of the sweetest friendships, and that inspired all of us- Right
to kind of come to the table. Mm-hmm. And so that was really the opportunity. And so, so if you're in his area, that is a- That's right ...
Mike Glenn: a well-known and a well-respected- Yeah.
Tommy Rhodes: So a lot of those men, uh, and leaders that came to that meeting kind of became the nucleus [00:18:00] of us saying, "Hey, may- maybe the Lord's asking us to go blaze a trail."
You know? Yeah. We, we thought it was gonna be this- Uh-huh ... and we're gonna come under this umbrella, but, but it feels like God has closed enough doors and now it's this. Yeah. And we're supposed to go out and do this.
Mike Glenn: You never end up doing what you thought you were gonna do.
Tommy Rhodes: No.
Mike Glenn: I mean- And so what- ... truly the Lord only gives you- Here's what it is
as much as you can handle And then you, then you start out and it's like, no, uh, here's what I really had in mind. That's right. But if I had told you, you'd, you'd freaked on me- ... and, you know, bucked on like, like a horse and not, uh, a- and not run, uh, the, the, the right way. So y- you find this core of, of believers who have a similar dream- Mm-hmm
in a different expression. That's right. Uh, they were doing, uh, education, poverty, uh, th- that kind of thing. Yes. You were doing the camps. That's right. And so these, these dreams come together. They blend together.
Tommy Rhodes: Yeah. I'll never forget talking to the founder of New Hope Academy, Paige Pitts. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Amazing family. And New [00:19:00] Hope was probably in their fourth or fifth year at the time. Mm-hmm. So th- they're seasoned veterans in this space. Right. And I mean, I remember going, you know, to Mary D's- Okay, and New
Mike Glenn: Hope is the school- That's right ... that, that came out of this, this same passion- That's right ... for, uh- Yeah, Christ Community had helped launch this school
for a cross-cultural educational experience. That's right. Very, very successful school in the area. Yeah, and,
Tommy Rhodes: and the mission statement was eerily similar- Uh-huh ... you know, to what God had put on my heart- Yeah ... as a summer camp. Mm-hmm. So like you said, just a different expression. Mm-hmm. And so Paige was so kind to like, you know, grab a meal with me, and I just, I was like, "What would New Hope Academy look like as a summer camp?"
Mm-hmm. A- and really that's where a lot of our initial families came from was- Yeah ... from that.
Mike Glenn: Now, w- when we talk about, uh, church w- the, the ministry and Engage Church Network, we use words like calling.
Tommy Rhodes: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: You have your calling. We all have the, the same calling to share the gospel. Um, a- a- and you had a calling to reach, uh, [00:20:00] the cross-cultural experience.
Okay? Your context is where it got different. Mm-hmm. Okay? My context, the local church. Mm-hmm. I, I love the local church. That's where I'm happy. I, I thrive in a local church context. Uh, your context was, was- Uh, the summer camps. Okay? So t- so, um, let's talk about the work of the church that happens in the summer camp.
Tommy Rhodes: Mm.
Mike Glenn: The evangelism, the discipleship. Right. Does that make sense?
Tommy Rhodes: It does. Yeah. So talk to me about that. Yeah, so we, we've been blessed with 90 different ethnicities- Wow ... that come to, to camp now, and, uh, all the different flags, you know- Yeah ... hanging in the gym, and that would not be possible without, you know, truly being a parachurch ministry- Mm-hmm
and coming alongside, you know, churches that, that have a heart for this. You know, they're trying to figure it out. They're, they're familiar with John 17. [00:21:00] Mm-hmm. They know heaven, you know, is gonna be this incredible, you know, picture that's painted in Revelation 7:9- Mm-hmm ... with every tribe, nation, and tongue, and they're just trying to figure out, h- how are y'all doing this?
What does this look like? Right. You know, can, can we be a part of this? Right. And so that has really been- Can you give
Mike Glenn: focus to the energy- Yes ... and the passion we have?
Tommy Rhodes: That's right.
Mike Glenn: And you're, you know. That's right.
Tommy Rhodes: Yeah, and so it has been... You know, Barefoot's been such a vehicle of hope in this space, you know, because we've, we've kind of, you know, shown that, man, God shows up for this.
Right. And He is all about this. And the kids- Yeah ... the younger they are, the, the better they do- Yeah ... in these environments. And so the, the kids are really kind of leading the way. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Once they know they're loved and safe- That's right ... they thrive. Yeah. And so our- You know, but the sneaky thing about, uh, uh, uh, about, uh, Barefoot Republic is, uh, there is, there is a, a, um, a lightness to summer camp.
Okay? We, we, we feel this need to be part of cross-cultural experience. Well, what do we do? Let's go do a [00:22:00] summer camp. It's, it, it doesn't sound as heavy as- Right ... planning a church- That's right ... or a, a mission, you know. It's like- Yes ... we can do summer camp. Yeah.
Tommy Rhodes: Yeah. Yeah. And so Mike, I mean, 26 years in now, it's like our youngest campers are in their 30s now.
Yeah. And some of them are youth pastors, some of them are pastors. Right. You know? All other professions and careers now too. Wow. And our hope is that they're walking away, you know, from these five days... Now some of them are coming for 10 years- Mm-hmm ... you know, and we're planting trees in their honor, which is, like, the dream.
Right. But even if you come for one week, you know, when you go back home and you experience prejudice or racism or stereotypes- Mm-hmm I think 99.9% of these kids are like, "Wait a second. Not all-"
Mike Glenn: I, I know better. Exactly. I know better now. Yes.
Tommy Rhodes: I mean, Ps- Psalm 133- Yeah ... talks about how good and pleasant it is- Mm-hmm
when brothers and sisters live together in unity. Mm-hmm. And when you think about it, it's like how many opportunities do [00:23:00] we really get to live together in unity?
Mike Glenn: Right.
Tommy Rhodes: There's lots of opportunities to kind of visit together- Right ... but, like, truly- Well- ... live together ... from the
Mike Glenn: history of Nashville, music did that.
Yeah. And it wasn't unusual for- Right ... white and Black musicians to get together. Yes. Yeah. And, uh, and that's, that's why Nashville- Yeah ... has a very different racial history than- Yeah ... a lot of southern cities. Yeah. I am a pastor of a church. And, um, I, I have lots of, uh, uh, of responsibilities. Getting enough Sunday school teachers, getting enough thing.
And then you walk into my office and say, "Hey, I want, I wanna go do-
Tommy Rhodes: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: uh, a, a camp." Mm-hmm. "I wanna take leaders. I wanna take money. I wanna take..." Now, understand how I'm saying this, right? I- Mm-hmm ... and you're taking this out of the church. Now, that's not what happens, but that's the way a lot of pastors feel.
Right. You know? You, you are now becoming a competitor- Thank you for saying that ... for talent and resources. Mm-hmm. We know that's not the [00:24:00] truth, but that's the way it feels. Yes. So, uh, and, uh, and a lot of our friends, uh, that, that are watching this, Tommy, are going, "Hey, that's a good idea, but..." Right. You know- I can barely get kids to go to my event
I can, I can, I can barely get this and this. So, so talk about h- how you can do things that you may not be able to do in the context of the local church, and how your ministry feeds back to the local church. That's a great
Tommy Rhodes: question, and that has been a real struggle for us. I mean, the typical church partner for us is usually the one, um, that's under-resourced.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Tommy Rhodes: Uh, you know, a lot of the, uh, primitive Baptist churches, the small Hispanic churches, you know, the Nepalese churches. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's so much diversity in Nashville, which is wonderful. Mm-hmm. But typically, that's where our kids are coming from, and that's an answer to prayer. I mean, we intentionally reserve half our spots for low-income kids, and we're raising hundreds of thousands in scholarships a year- Mm-hmm
to be able to say yes to those families. But we're just as [00:25:00] intentional about trying to get the affluent kids to come. Right. And what you just painted, you know, as a description is so accurate. I mean, so many times the affluent churches, they do, they see us as competition. Right. And we're just like, "Oh, man, that's painful," 'cause we're like, summer is still 12 weeks and- Right
w- we totally believe in youth groups going and doing their own camps. Mm-hmm. That's why I'm sitting here. You know, I shared that I went, you know, with Matt Hanna- Right ... on a church retreat. You know, it changed my life forever. So I would never discourage churches from that. Mm-hmm. We have said, I mean- are there a nucleus of families?
You know, i- is there a core group, you know, that you just know has a bent, you know- Mm-hmm ... towards trying to get out of the bubble a little bit- Mm-hmm ... you know, have a multicultural, Christ-centered experience that- that's safe and fun- Mm-hmm ... and uplifting. And we think, you know, if we could identify those families and they come experience Barefoot Republic, they're gonna come back and just infiltrate those, you know, children's ministries and youth ministries and student ministries- Mm-hmm
in, in really positive and [00:26:00] meaningful ways. And so that's kind of our strategy right now. Right. Mm-hmm. And, and we realize, I mean, if a mega church were to say, "We wanna send, you know, all 200 of our kids, you know, to Barefoot this summer," I think that would totally sway the demographics- Right ... in the other direction.
Right. We, we don't have the capacity. I mean, the average session for us is about 150 kids. Right. You know, so we can only have about 75, you know, affluent kids- Mm-hmm ... if we really wanna be multi-economic. Mm-hmm. Does that make
Mike Glenn: sense? Yeah. It ma- ma- ma- Yeah ... makes, make, makes good sense. Now, let me come at it a different way.
I'm pastor of, uh, a lo- a local church. Uh, you're, you're a, you're a good Christian, Tommy. You come to church. You tithe. You have your family there. Mm-hmm. I got plans for you- as, as a pastor, okay? Yeah. You come to me with this totally out of nowhere dream and vision- Mm-hmm ... that you're committed to. Uh, you're not gonna teach Sunday school.
You're not gonna sing in the choir. I, I, you know, I'm being a little facetious here, but to, [00:27:00] to, to make the point. But you're, you're gonna go off and do ... How ... And, and you're not the only one. There, there are a lot of people in the pews who are dreaming a God dream- Mm ... but it's not in the traditional structure.
Tommy Rhodes: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: What do you want your pastor to say?
Tommy Rhodes: Man, I, my heart would be for them to say, "Run after that." Yeah. I mean, going back to my disobedience, you know, for about seven years- Mm-hmm ... you know, I wish a pastor, you know, would've been like, "Man, Tommy, that is awesome. If God has put that call on your life, you know, I, I, I wanna cover you in prayer."
Mm-hmm. "You know, I wanna help resource you, open doors." Uh, I'll never forget, I mean, Scotty Smith- Let me get me some business leaders- Yes ... and let's put this plan together. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Scotty Smith at the height, you know, of Christ Community- Right ... you know, back in the late '90s when God, you know, had this call on my life, was gracious enough to take a meeting with me.
Mm-hmm. [00:28:00] And I'll never forget, you know, he wasn't my pastor. I didn't know him from Adam, you know. I knew he was kind of a big deal. And, uh, he was like, "Tommy, you know, I don't have a lot of time to give you, but I'd love to give you an endorsement." Mm-hmm. And I'll never forget, you know, he, he gives me this piece of paper.
I don't know what half the words mean. Yeah. Just- Yeah, Scotty had it that way, didn't he? Yeah. I was like, "I'm gonna need to look these up, Scotty," you know? But all he said, he just looked at me, he's like, "Use this." Yeah. You know, and it was incredible to see. I mean, a lot of folks thought we were a PCA camp- Right
you know, because that- Well, was, well, Scotty had that kind of influence ... endorsement- Right. Yeah ... yes. I mean, all of a sudden, you know, West End Community got involved, Covenant Pres got- Mm-hmm ... you know, it was just incredible to see the ripple effect. And so that would be my hope, you know, for a pastor who has people in their congregation who has this vision for para church ministry.
Mm-hmm. But at the end of the day, you know, we are trying to connect all of our kids, 'cause half of our kids are unchurched. Right. And so we're, our dream is to get them plugged in. Mm-hmm. And we're looking at, like, regional maps and population density and [00:29:00] trying to figure out- Sure ... who do, who do we know in this neighborhood?
Mm-hmm. You know- Mm-hmm ... 'cause obviously a lot of kids are coming to faith in Christ for the first time at Barefoot. Right.
Mike Glenn: And you need to have the partner church. We can't disciple them. No.
Tommy Rhodes: We don't have- No ... the bandwidth to disciple them.
Mike Glenn: Well, you don't have the opportunity. They're not gonna stay at the camp.
That's right. They're just gonna stop. Yeah. So that would be my hope. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, Tommy, thanks for being here and, uh- Thanks for the opportunity ... this is Tommy Rose. He is the, uh, he's ex- executive director or president? What is the- Executive director ... executive director- Mm-hmm ... of, uh, the Barefoot Republic.
Uh, i- if you are a pastor, one, understand that God is always at work in His world. He's always at work in your congregation. It's just sometimes it may not be within the four walls of the local church. So when you have somebody like Tommy comes to you and say, "I'm dreaming about," pay attention to what's going on in their lives.
God may be up to something, and if He is, make sure you're in the middle of it. I'm Mike Glenn, and this is the Engaged Church Network Podcast. Thanks for joining
[00:30:00] us.
