Christ-Centered Addiction Recovery | Adam Comer and Sarah Keel
In this episode, Mike Glenn sits down with Adam Comer and Sarah Keel from S2L Recovery to discuss why Christ-centered addiction recovery works differently than secular approaches. They challenge the brain disease model, discuss identity in Christ versus identifying as "an addict," and explore how the church can reclaim its role in recovery ministry.
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S2L Church dedicated number: (615) 695-1556
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Mike Glenn: Well, Adam Comer, welcome to the podcast. Yes, sir. Thank you for being here today. Yes, sir. Thank you for
Adam Comer: having me.
Mike Glenn: And you and S2L Memory, Spring to Life.
Adam Comer: Yes,
Mike Glenn: yes. Okay, which is an addiction recovery.
Adam Comer: Yes.
Mike Glenn: Now, all the good people I know in the addiction world who are leaders in addiction didn't volunteer-
Adam Comer: Mm-mm
Mike Glenn: for this. Did not sit down as a six-year-old and go, "One day I will lead a recovery ministry- That's right. ... and get people out of addiction." This is a long road.
Adam Comer: Mm-hmm. Uh-
Mike Glenn: This
Adam Comer: is not the plan. Yes,
Mike Glenn: right. That's right.
Adam Comer: This is not-- I actually came through S2L close to 15 years ago.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
Adam Comer: I'm originally from East Tennessee, Knoxville area, uh, and had tried secular, had a horrible opiate addic-addiction.
Tried secular paths, you know, did the 12 steps, the AA, went to- Did
Mike Glenn: the opiate come out of a surgery, or?
Adam Comer: I injured my back. It was never prescribed. Right. Uh, at Hurricane Katrina, around that time, was doing some roofing work in [00:01:00] New Orleans, injured my back, and was introduced to some powerful pain medication.
Mm-hmm. And something clicked the first time I took it, and it was always the chase from there. In my mind it was, "Hey, you're back. This is justified."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: But, I mean, I, I never-
Mike Glenn: You're not addicted, you're hurting.
Adam Comer: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Mm-hmm. I, and I need this. I need this. Well, then it became I need this just to get out of bed.
I need this just to have a meeting. Mm-hmm. I need this just to make a phone call. And you know, now, you know, never having a surgery, my back, my back hurts sometimes, but I'm fine, you know.It, but, but in my mind then it was like, "
Sarah Keel: Oh, no- Yeah ... how many discs are missing?" Yeah,
Mike Glenn: that's
Adam Comer: right. "
Sarah Keel: I don't know what's going on."
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Adam Comer: So, but yeah, I, I'm very, I'm honored to be here. Uh, uh, Pastor, I, I appreciate your... Man, you've been a mighty man of God for a long time and served well and, and raised up many leaders. Good. So, so this is, this is cool to, to get to meet you and- Yeah, you bet ... we've, we've talked about, we've known some of the same people- Yeah
and stuff, so I appreciate being here.
Mike Glenn: That's good. Well, tell me about Spring to Life.
Adam Comer: Okay. S2L, well, we kind of rebranded. It was Spring to Life Recovery. We rebranded, [00:02:00] mm, 10 years ago to S2L Recovery- Mm-hmm ... kind of make it a little shorter and some leadership change. Uh, but we were founded in tw-2006, so this year we're celebrating 20 years.
Uh, we have a gala at Brentwood Baptist at the end of this month. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's, it's called the Freedom Gala: A Night of Hope. Um, but we've been an all-male program for 20 years. We're Christ-centered. Uh, we do, do things the, the traditional way, the secular way that, that most know about recovery and how it works.
Mm-hmm. Uh, we have a license by the state. We have a Joint Commission Accreditation. We have the doctor, the nurses, the, the counselors licensed, everything. But we, we just have a fundamental difference, uh, in the way that we go about treatment and the care. And ultimately that's because we're Christ-centered- Mm-hmm
and we stand on the word of God, and we believe that addiction's not a surprise to God, that he might speak into it. Mm-hmm. But after 20 years of serving males, we decided that that wasn't hard enough. And so in February of this year, um, the Lord ... Well, the Lord, I believe, has been working on us [00:03:00] for a few years, but it was just to, to think about serving women, it seemed like something that I wasn't prepared for, one, because of the staff
Mike Glenn: and everything.
Well, you know, there's that book, Men Are from Mars and Women Are from Venus. Yes. And I tell everybody, "That assumes we're in the same galaxy."
Adam Comer: That's true. That's true.
Mike Glenn: My wife is not even in my galaxy- ... so the physics work an entirely different way in her world.
Adam Comer: That's, that's true.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Adam Comer: That's true. But I've always
Uh, the one thing, you could say a lot about me, and there's a lot of flaws, but the one thing that if I know that God's saying to do something-
Mike Glenn: Mm ...
Adam Comer: I don't care. Yeah. It's on the- There you go ... if my yes is on the table, and I trust ... I've seen Him do too much to try to- Mm ... try to say, "Oh, no. That's impossible."
Mm-hmm. And so February of this year, we, we opened up, uh, uh, for the first time and accepting women. Not co-ed. We have different campuses- Yeah ... about 15 miles away. And so in come Sarah Keel.
Mike Glenn: Sarah Keel.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Welcome to the- Hello ... podcast as well. Yeah. We're glad- Thank you ... we're glad you're here. Thank you.
Now, again, [00:04:00] working in the addiction world is not something you volunteer for- Yes ... as a, a, you know, on, you know, the traditional AA, you can't work unless you are a recovering, uh, uh, a person in recovery-
Sarah Keel: Right ...
Mike Glenn: unless you understand that. So, so this is probably not somewhere- Sometimes ... where you wrote as a little girl on the back of, you know, one day I will grow up and, and lead a women's recovery center.
Sarah Keel: Nope. I wanted to work at a zoo. Close.
Mike Glenn: Or
Sarah Keel: be a teacher. Elementary school teacher was another one.
Mike Glenn: Very close. Oh,
Sarah Keel: yeah. Very close.
Mike Glenn: So, so how did you end up here?
Sarah Keel: Yeah. So, um, I'll just say by age 12 I was drinking, smoking pot. By age 14, I was, uh, doing cocaine and ecstasy. By the time I was 18, I was shooting heroin, in and out of jail.
Um, did not grow up in a Christian home. Incarcerated several times. Uh, but the gospel was brought to me in jail, and it was specifically the [00:05:00] woman with the bleeding disorder, uh, that story. Mm. Mm. There were two little old ladies that came into the, into our, uh, unit and, um, a lot of times, you know, whenever you're locked up, you just wanna get out.
Mike Glenn: You go to anything.
Sarah Keel: You go to anything, yeah. You go to anything. Bible study, sure. You know? Why not?
Mike Glenn: Church.
Sarah Keel: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Keel: Um, but they brought a prayer shawl, and there were tassels on it, and they told us about the woman with the bleeding disorder, and they invited us to come and touch the hem of his garment- Ooh
symbolically. Mm-hmm. You know? And I was the first one to dive- To that garment, and I wept. And it was like Pentecost, and people just started diving down and, and weeping- Mm ... at that garment. Um, it was a beautiful time. I'm sure those women will never forget that moment. I don't even know if they knew to expect something like that.
Mm. But it was definitely like the Spirit moved, and it changed me forever. And I immediately became very [00:06:00] zealous to, like, know the Word. Mm-hmm. So I spent a lot of time in jail, uh, studying God's Word. The chaplain gave me a Bible. Um, and I remember, like, sitting in my cell and, and reading, uh, through God's Word, and then going down and, you know, sitting at the table that I typically sit at and start telling people, "You know, you need to repent.
You need to repent." You know, uh, since the Lord has harnessed, you know, the eva- Yeah ... you know- Yeah ... that to the ... I don't know. They listened. But I immediately became an evangelist in jail. And I don't know. He, he just sparked something inside of me-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sarah Keel: um, when I was locked up. So I, I stepped into this industry because I wanted to help people like me.
Adam Comer: Right. Uh,
Sarah Keel: and it's been a long road, but ... I,
Adam Comer: I met her, she actually worked for the Tennessee Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse. Uh, that's where we first kinda met. Right. And after getting to know her, I, I, well, I don't know how much trouble you wanna get on in this [00:07:00] podcast. But, uh, after knowing her heart for Christ-
I knew- Mm ... she couldn't work for the state very long- Mm ... with what ... You know, not that they're bad, you know, but it's just kind of, there's some conflict.
Mike Glenn: That's right, yeah. And so- There's rules. Uh, you take Uncle Sam's money, you take Uncle Sam's rules.
Adam Comer: Right. Mm-hmm. And so that's when ... I think I even told you that.
I was like, "I don't, uh, I don't think you're gonna be there very long." Mm. Uh, but that's when, uh, we were talking about it earlier, when the Knox County Church Network- Mm ... was kinda forming, and, and that's when I recommended that Sarah do that. And so tell 'em a little bit about the foundation of, or forming of, uh, Renew Clinic in Knoxville.
Sarah Keel: Sure. Um, so it is the Knox County Church Network. It crosses denominational lines- Mm-hmm ... which I'm really impressed that you're doing something very similar. I- Mm-hmm ... kinda looked into- Engage, yeah ... that network that you're building. And, uh, 'cause I haven't heard of it. It's not common, right- Mm-hmm ... for churches to come together.
They do agree on the Apostle's Creed. Um, so the Presbyterian pastor, you know, he's PCA, uh, cares very much about [00:08:00] theology- Mm-hmm ... and, you know, that. But there are some peripheral matters that can be laid aside. But they wanted to come together to serve Knoxville. And our mayor, Mayor Glenn Jacobs- Mm-hmm ... uh- Mm-hmm
al- also- WWE- WWE- ... superstar,
Adam Comer: Kane.
Sarah Keel: Yeah, Kane. If you're, if you're following. He's a good friend of mine, um, but he introduced me to these pastors. Okay. And the chairman is very good friends with Adam. Mm. And Adam has served as, like, a mentor to me through even- building Renew and things like that. Mm-hmm. But, um, yeah, we started to conceptualize Renew Clinic.
It's, it was, is a Christ-centered intensive outpatient. And, um, you know, I, I've worked in this industry for a long time, primarily in the secular side of things. Mm-hmm. And I was so tired of having to strategically get Jesus in. I felt like I was called to, to freely speak-
Mike Glenn: Mm ...
Sarah Keel: uh, in this world. Mm-hmm. God sometimes will place people in the secular arena and give them a strategy [00:09:00] and- Right
evangeliz- you know, like underground, and I just felt like I am here to f- openly and freely speak- Mm-hmm ... of Jesus. And so, um, you know, and there's also a lot of like philosophical and worldview assumptions that I saw did not line up with what the Bible says and what is being taught- Mm ... in the secular world around addiction.
So there was always a tension for me. And so Renew Clinic was built on this foundation of church, of the unity of the church coming together- Mm ... crossing denominational lines. They hired me as the director. Um, and God has abundantly blessed that ministry. Um, it's, it's going well, it's thriving, and people are encountering the Lord.
Mm-hmm. Uh, we do not... I say we, I'm with S2L now, but at Renew Clinic- Yeah ... I'm still, I still catch myself- It's very new. It's very new ... I still catch myself. Yeah. Um- 'Cause that was
Adam Comer: kind of her baby, I mean- Yeah, sure ... from,
Sarah Keel: from
Adam Comer: conception- Yeah ... and then she led it for five years, so.
Sarah Keel: [00:10:00] Yeah, yeah. And raised up, you know, a leader and, um, that could step in and, and be the executive director, and then Adam recruited me to come and open, uh, or help build the women's side of S2L Recovery.
Adam Comer: Interesting enough, the leader that took her place came through S2L- Mm-hmm ... a few years ago and moved back home. He's a, he's a therapist and so- Mm-hmm ... had his own practice, and so that's pretty interesting.
Sarah Keel: Yeah.
Adam Comer: Uh, can I shift gears for a second? And I'm sorry, I, I don't wanna take over, but but I did actually just send them a message.
I've been a podcaster for eight years now. Mm-hmm. So I wanted to talk about Engage Church Network for a second, 'cause something that we're really engaged in with some of the things that the Lord's called us to do- Mm-hmm ... outside of S2L with Recovering Christ Institute and things like that, and one thing that we noticed on the website in looking at it is you're really, seems like you have a heart for the church in a postmodern world.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. The, the, the, the tagline is [00:11:00] future-proofing the church.
Adam Comer: Yeah. '
Mike Glenn: Cause see, our,
Sarah Keel: um-
Mike Glenn: Mm ... uh, n- no one had a better ride than I did.
Adam Comer: Hm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? As I, I was, uh, I was, followed a great guy, Bill Wilson, the founding pastor of Brentwood. Yeah. He'd been there for 20 years. I served for 32, and I got to move the church building, got to...
And I, I tell people I pastored four or five churches the same address. Okay. Because as the church would change, I got to do different things. Hm. And so that- That need to grow and sha- I was always able to do at the same place. Uh, now they were getting ready to do the sixth change because the way Brentwood has changed, our Memphis, our emphasis was out.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: We were starting the churches- Yes ... everywhere, you know, planting the congregations and everything, uh, as people because they were too far to drive in. Now, all the neighborhoods that were once ours, that you, you know what I mean? Yeah. If you were in Meadowlake, you went to our church- Right ... you know, kind of thing.
All of those neighborhoods have transitioned now. New people have moved in.
Adam Comer: [00:12:00] Mm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and, and so we're having to introduce Brentwood Baptist Church to the people who are right next door.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So, so that's one of Jay's opportunities for that. Yeah. But, you know, that's a three to five-year trans- and I said, "Ah, I want somebody else to do that."
But, but what, uh, I started to think, and I was gonna be working with pastors and church, and when you get out and start walking around, there are some things that scare you to death when you find out.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, the, the lack of leadership, uh, the lack of leaders being trained, the changing im- uh, of, of, of the environment and the culture and all of that, that is now openly hostile Cr- to Christianity.
Mm-hmm. And how do you now th- survive and thrive i- in a place where we are not a Christian nation?
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Maybe we once were, not, we'll argue that later. But right now, more people tell us that they do not know Christ than tell us they do know. Wow. And so when you really push those numbers, it's really, really, really hard-
Adam Comer: Yeah
Mike Glenn: to see. So, uh, [00:13:00] we're working through, um, things, how, how then do, uh, w- with, with the, the Gen X, Gen Z, and all these other folks, they are generous. They will give you the shirt off their back-
Adam Comer: Hmm. Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: for a well in Africa. They won't give you 15 cents for the light bulb in the sanctuary.
Adam Comer: Wow. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Now, that's just the reality.
Now, if S2L came and said, "Hey, I need $100 to sponsor this," you know, it, it cost $100 to be- This gala
Adam Comer: coming up now. Sorry ...
Mike Glenn: to do. So bam, they would give that right then.
Adam Comer: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? But if you say, "Hey, we need to build a building," now that's a- Yeah ... different deal, and they've been burned by church, they've been let down by church.
There's a whole new opportunity out there. But one of the things that the church has to do that we have historically done is we call it the Mother Teresa rule.
Adam Comer: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Go where no one wants to go, do what nobody wants to do, and nobody will say a word to you. Okay? And, and eventually we give you a platform.
Now, you're probably not old enough to remember, [00:14:00] but Mother Teresa pointed her finger at Bill Clinton's face point blank and told him, "Mr. President, you have to stop abortion in America."
Adam Comer: Wow.
Sarah Keel: Really?
Mike Glenn: I mean, I mean, bam. Really? This close. And everybody in the world said- Good
Sarah Keel: for her ...
Mike Glenn: well, and everybody in the world says, "Well, that's not the way you talk to the president."
Everybody else went, "Pfft, she's Mother Teresa. She can say what she wants to." Right. Yep. You knew that- She earned it ... when you invited her in. Yeah. Oh, okay. So, uh, the world is broken in so many places, and they offer broken solutions to the problems. Uh, every time the government steps in, they make it worse.
Now, the church historically has been able to step in- That's what Ronald Reagan said, didn't he? Yeah, the, yeah. The, the church has historically been able to step in. Public schools came from the church. Uh, uh, hospitals came from the church. Mm-hmm. You know, all- Universities ... uh, universities came from the- Mm-hmm
all of that came from the work, uh, of the church.
Sarah Keel: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: [00:15:00] Uh, now, as I tell a couple of my pagan friends, "You guys don't do anything. You wait till the Christians build it, then you steal it from us." And mess it up. Exactly. They hijack it. And mess it up. So now, now, uh, in a, in a place where our, where, where addiction is so rapid, and now we're living in a world that is trying to create addiction-
Adam Comer: Mm-hmm
Mike Glenn: that is actively stalking our children-
Adam Comer: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: trying to create addiction to porn, to social media- Mm-hmm ... uh, to gambling.
Adam Comer: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and, and, and, and now we're beginning to see, uh, uh, how the, the, the alignment with the sports and the gambling is, is wrecking young men's lives.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Okay? And they have no answer for this.
Now, you know, we, we think there is an answer and there is a solution.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And it is in this, uh, this, this life-transforming overflow relationship with, with, with, with Christ. So that's why we are excited to talk to people like you-
Adam Comer: Hmm ...
Mike Glenn: [00:16:00] because you're out there doing where the future of the church is.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Okay? Because if we move into an area-
Adam Comer: That's so refreshing to hear ...
Mike Glenn: w- we, we, if, if we move into an area and, and, and the city says, "Well, we don't know... We, we don't want a church," but you got a lot of addicts here.
Adam Comer: Hmm. "
Mike Glenn: Oh, okay, you wanna do that? Okay, you can start there. We're not gonna do anything if you aren't helping these people."
Adam Comer: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay, so that's where it starts. The ministry comes before the message
Adam Comer: now. Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Because the world is so, so jaded by all of the disappointments of Christian leadership, that now when you show up, um... One of the things that our campuses have to do is adopt a local school.
Adam Comer: Oh, cool.
Mike Glenn: It's required.
You have to go to that principal and say, "We're here. We don't have an agenda."
Sarah Keel: Mm-hmm. "
Mike Glenn: Tell us what you need." Do you know most T- uh, Tennessee teachers- Use about $5,000 a year- Of their own ... of their own money
Adam Comer: Own money.
Sarah Keel: Wow.
Adam Comer: My parents are both teachers, so I
Mike Glenn: [00:17:00] know that. To do, to, to, to take care of their kids.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Sarah Keel: Wow.
Mike Glenn: So we go and say, "What do you need?" "Well, we need..." One, one of our early stories when we first did it, nobody knew what we were doing, so we s- showed up and the guy said, "Here's what we need." So we go to Office Depot, and we start... Every, every teacher has a wishlist, "Here's things I really need."
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And we got everything on the wishlist. Well, the guy at Office Depot found out what we were doing, and he just started throwing in free stuff. We got stuff we didn't even know what it was. That's so cool. Wow. "Oh, geez, it's in the box." And that, and we h- we hosted a welcome back to the year luncheon and said, "Hey, on your way out, there is a, a box with your name on it."
Mm. "And it has everything that was on your wishlist."
Adam Comer: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Now, the conversation starts from, "Oh, you're the church that..."
Adam Comer: Did this.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. "You're the church takes care of m- my kids' school."
Adam Comer: Hmm. "
Mike Glenn: Yeah, okay, now we'll listen to you."
Adam Comer: That's good.
Mike Glenn: Otherwise, so,
Adam Comer: so, so- I c- I could tell you, [00:18:00] Pastor, the, the... I believe, based on what you just said and what we feel the Lord's called us to do- Mm-hmm
we're, you're all right on point. Almost, oh, and like I just said, it's such a fresh breath of fresh air. Um, obviously we know we're called to residential recovery, medical detox- Mm-hmm ... and serving the men, women that God's put in front of us, but He's also called us to kind of a, to, to march into the storm historically.
Mm-hmm. In fact, we have a documentary called The Forgotten Pandemic, and that's kinda my main message. Historically, the church went into the storm- Yeah ... towards these things, and now the church is handing this issue off to the secular world. Mm-hmm. And a part of the post-modern, uh, that we've heard of, that the, the secular world has kinda taken the, the recovery community and said things that are antithetical to what you're gonna say in the pulpit, and kind of, kind of, um, what's the horse?
The- Trojan horse. Yeah ... Trojan horse that into the church.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Well, the, the, the thing [00:19:00] is, the, the secular message is that you can do it. That, that-
Adam Comer: And, and that you are it.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Adam Comer: Yeah. I am an addict.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
Adam Comer: I am an alcoholic. That,
Mike Glenn: that, that, that-
Adam Comer: That's your
Mike Glenn: identity ... and that you can handle it on your own.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Well, you wouldn't be here if you could handle it- That's right ... on your own.
Adam Comer: Yeah. And you, and the secular message also just, you know, you do have to turn it over to a higher power or a god of your own understanding. Uh-huh. And what does the Bible say? "Lean not on your own understanding." Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. So leaning on my own understanding is what led me to the problem in the first place.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Well, AA, when it first started, was centered in the church. The r- the way I got into the AA community was by studying Samuel Shoemaker-
Adam Comer: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: who was the, the pastor of Bill W.-
Adam Comer: Mm ...
Mike Glenn: and who added-
Adam Comer: Interesting ...
Mike Glenn: the spiritual side of it when it was just forming.
Adam Comer: And, and I mean,
Mike Glenn: I- And, and, and Samuel Shoemaker has, has a, a life-defining poem for me called I Stand by the Door.
Adam Comer: Hmm. Do you know
Mike Glenn: it? And you, yeah, you gotta get a hold of it, man. It's about a page long.
Adam Comer: Okay.
Mike Glenn: But I stand by the door. Everybody else goes into the house deep. I stand by the door to help people find the [00:20:00] handle of the door so they can get in.
Adam Comer: So here's my problem, though. Um, and again, I don't wanna get anyone... We can edit anything out. I don't wanna have you getting emails. I get 'em all the time. I don't care. It's not that anymore, and I have people come to us, to L, from all over the country flying into BNA. Mm-hmm. I can't recommend AA. Mm-hmm. I can't recommend NA because it's not...
It's the furthest thing from Christ that there is. Mm-hmm. It makes you God. It, it tells that your higher power could be your dead grandmother. Mm. Your higher power could be the doorknob, literally.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: I've been told that. Yeah, yeah, it can be, yeah. Like I said, I've been to thousands of meetings.
Mike Glenn: It, it-
Adam Comer: Now, there are, there are good Christ centered- That
Mike Glenn: was the
Adam Comer: controversy in there because- Are there good Christ centered meetings?
Yes.
Mike Glenn: Uh.
Adam Comer: I don't know where they are. I don't, a- and I... So if I can't-
Mike Glenn: I know a c- I, I do know a couple.
Adam Comer: Yeah. Yeah. But, but if the guy's in Florida flying back home to Florida- Right ... you can't tell him, "Hey, I know of one in Brentwood." Yeah, I don't know. Yeah Right? And so, so that's my problem. I- I'm okay with, with, um, Celebrate Recovery.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: Uh, to an extent. I think there's some things starting to shake loose from there, um, some churches that we've [00:21:00] seen. But there's, that, that's, that's what we've seen with, um, when it comes to post-modernism, that Trojan horse coming into the church. The pastor doesn't know much about AA or who's leading it.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: What are they teaching? Well, what you don't know is they're teaching things that are antithetical to what you teach Sunday morning- Mm-hmm ... about identity, about who God is. And so that's something that we feel that God's called us to, um, be the, the voice for the capital C Church when it comes to addiction recovery.
Mm-hmm. And He has blessed us with some amazing people- Mm-hmm ... uh, some amazing resources that we've developed. And so it's, uh, to hear you say that about the church and marching into the storm- Mm-hmm ... and, and being the thought leader, um, we're really in line with that. Mm-hmm. So it's good to hear.
Sarah Keel: Can I speak- Please
just a moment to the AA conversation? Please. Um, I do think, um, and Adam, you may disagree with me a little bit on this, but, like, the 12 steps- Right ... derive from, like, a biblical teaching. Yeah. That's why they bless people, right? Yeah. 'Cause anytime you, [00:22:00] like, obey instruction- Yeah, and the big book- ... in the Word
and all of
Mike Glenn: that. Yeah. Solid, solid stuff.
Sarah Keel: Right. Yeah. It, it's, you know, anytime you obey instruction from the Lord, whether it's, "Hey, stop getting drunk." Mm-hmm. "Stop using drugs." Fellowship's great. Whether or not you... Yeah, fellowship, community. Whether or not you, uh, recognize or acknowledge that that is instruction from the Lord- Mm-hmm
it's going to bless you if you obey it. Right. Right? Mm-hmm. If you forgive people, it's going to bless you. Mm-hmm. So a lot of people are experiencing, like, a blessing from God, um, or, you know, that common grace- Mm-hmm ... it rains, um, on the just and the unjust. There's grace upon... We're all under the common grace of God, and I, and I see, like, those groups as experiencing a common grace of God 'cause people's lives can- Get better- Mm-hmm
from attending a meeting, right? Mm-hmm. But the problem for me is it's literally, and they identify as an agnostic group, and agnosticism is not [00:23:00] neutrality. Agnosticism literally believes you cannot know Him. Mm-hmm. You cannot make a truth claim of who He is. And so, like, whenever we get into, like, this higher power conversation, it's not just...
Sometimes the way it's positioned or propositioned to people is, you know, meeting people where they're at-
Mike Glenn: Mm ...
Sarah Keel: which I don't think any Christian would have a problem with that. Like, I love apologetics. Sometimes, you know, you just start somewhere. Mm-hmm. Like, let's just establish that God is real. Let's just start there, and then we'll move into, like, His identity- Mm-hmm
and the gospel. But with- in an agnostic group, it's like there's this guise that we're meeting people where they're at, but there's no... There is a hostility and a resistance to moving people to Christ, and I'm not saying I've been to every single AA meeting and know exactly what they do. Yeah,
Mike Glenn: that, that- That was my experience.
And, and, and, and my, uh, you know, my constant thing is you can't... Matthew 12 has an [00:24:00] interesting story. Jesus said there was a, there was a, a man who was, uh, who was filled with demons.
Adam Comer: Mm.
Mike Glenn: Cast the demon out. Demon's cast out. The demon walks around, can't find anywhere else to go, so he comes back to the man's house with his friends.
And get this. Jesus says, "The demon finds the man's house swept clean-
Adam Comer: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: and empty."
Sarah Keel: Mm-hmm. Good point.
Mike Glenn: And then the man, the demon moves back in with his friends, and the guy's worse off.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Um,
the point that, that, that I, I think all of us are trying to make is w- it's more than not doing drugs. Amen. It's more than not doing wrong. It is filling your life with the presence of Christ- Amen ... that makes the transformation difference. Yeah. The transformative difference- Yeah ... uh, with that, yeah. Amen.
And, and I mean, gosh, I know a lot of Baptists that are swept clean but empty.
Adam Comer: Oh, yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, you know, show up every Sunday and praise God they [00:25:00] didn't do anything this past week, right? Amen. Yeah. 'Cause, 'cause, 'cause- Yeah ... the Sunday before I was told, "Here are all the things you can't do," so when you get together the next Sunday- Yeah
praise God we hadn't done anything.
Adam Comer: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think my biggest issue, and we have a whole thing- Mm-hmm ... about there's the brain disease model of addiction. Right. We have... But the main issue with ,... And I have to say it's secular, but I mean, I know its roots wasn't, and I agree with that, is that for me to speak at any meeting, I'm Adam and I'm an addict.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: Uh, or I'm Adam, I'm an alcoholic. And I mean- I just feel like that's not what Jesus says about me. I feel like he died for that. Mm-hmm. I think, I think I'm called a saint, and how dare I say anything different in Christ. And I remember, uh, with h- her boss that used to work for the state, he went on a every county in Tennessee tour for the faith-based initiative.
Mm-hmm. And he would bring me in. I don't know why, 'cause I would say these type things. People would get mad. But I would... And I remember an old, I think it was in may- [00:26:00] might've been in East Tennessee, it might've been in Middle Tennessee. But an old just godly man who'd gone to AA and, and found his way through that.
And, and he came to me after I said these things, uh, and really felt like he needed to tell me. He goes, "You know, Adam, we don't, we don't call ourselves an addict. We call ourselves an addict," kinda like you say I'm a saint saved by, or I'm a sinner saved by grace. Mm-hmm. And it's just to remember that we can't do this.
Mm-hmm. And, and I just, I think that sounds good, but the devastation that I caused, I'll never forget- Mm ... that I did that. And two, the Bible doesn't say I'm a sinner saved by grace. That now I'm, in Christ, it says I'm a saint, and that my identity is not in my sin. And I believe, at S2L, we believe that addiction's idolatry.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. You
Adam Comer: exchange the glory of God and his, his promises for bootleg pre- pleasures. Mm-hmm. And so-
Mike Glenn: The, the old Romans 1 ...
Adam Comer: call it what it is. Yeah. Call it what it is, and not some brain dis- No, don't make me a victim, right? Mm-hmm. Mm. If I'm a victim, then I'm gonna g- I'm gonna be in this world of brain disease.
I'm gonna now get on this medication for a lifetime. I'm gonna [00:27:00] be in the system and the revolving door. But God speaks clearly to it. And, and, and I know it's controversial, but I don't care anymore. I don't care. I, I don't wanna hurt people. I believe that God can, can use anything, as long as people are turning to Christ for an, for the answer.
Mm-hmm. That's, that's what, that's what we believe works. I think even statistics, if you look at them, a f- Christ-centered, a faith-based approach to addiction is radically more effective than, um, a medication or a, a secular, a secular approach to it.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, 'cause you get the full message.
Adam Comer: Right.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
It's not enough that you be against.
Adam Comer: But not to say, hey- Yeah. Yeah ... I did say earlier, we have the doctor, we have the therapist- Yeah, yeah ... licensed therapist, we have the nurses. It is a r- it, and it does cause brain, uh, it does change chemistry in your brain. Yeah. Not saying any of those are untrue, but I'm not doom- That's not all it is.
That's not all it is. I'm not doomed to a disease- We're not gonna release it, yeah ... for the rest of my life. I'm not gonna identify with something that I did, especially, I just have this vision of, of [00:28:00] nowadays, and I did this thousands of times, go into the, the rooms. But now I have this vision of me sitting in those rooms saying that I am an addict, and Jesus, just with the nails, just- Mm
I died for that. You're mine.
Sarah Keel: Mm.
Adam Comer: You're not that, son.
Sarah Keel: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: And so, so I, I... That's kind of our approach. That's why I said at the beginning, we're different. Um, and it's a breath of fresh air. I mean, a lot of, uh, for me, but a lot of guys have gone to other programs before coming to us- Mm ... a lot of girls now, and when they hear, they come expecting s- having to say, "Hey, I'm Adam," or, "I'm Sarah."
Mm. "I'm an alcoholic," or whatever, and we're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You did that, and you have consequences, very real, and that you'll probably have to deal with. That's not who you are, though."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: And immediately, hope. Like, what? Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: I'm
Adam Comer: not that? I don't have to be that the rest of my life? I know for me and my story at S2O, when I heard that after going to all the secular places- Mm
I was, I had lost everything. My wife, I thought I was expecting divorce papers in the... Lost every friend, every financial thing, wasted. Mm-hmm. Um, [00:29:00] stolen for, hurt everyone who ever loved me.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: And when I heard that that's not who I am- A little hope fired off- Mm-hmm ... and man, hope is powerful, and it changed everything.
We- And it made me curious. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Keel: Sorry. Uh, do you know what's interesting about what you're saying, though? Is the brain disease model was introduced to reduce stigma.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Sarah Keel: And so when people say, "I'm an addict," they're saying, like, "I have this disease of addiction," that is stigmatizing. Like, in this effort to- Yeah
reduce stigma, you're actually creating stigma. Mm-hmm. Because stigma literally means label. Mm-hmm. You know, stain. And so it's just, uh, uh, I don't know. There's just, like, an internal inconsistency there just with, just logically.
Adam Comer: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Keel: You know, that just doesn't fit. Yeah.
Adam Comer: We, we, we don't wanna bore you. We did a whole- Sorry
mini conference called Set Free by Truth. Uh, uh, the first one we did was in East Tennessee. Uh, and we really on an intellectual level, on a philosophical and theological level, kinda contrasted [00:30:00] the God's Word versus the brain disease model. Mm-hmm. And we, and, you know, a lot of counselors and pastors and ministry workers came.
Probably 150, 200 people came to that, including Mayor Jacobs. Mm-hmm. Um, and the, uh, so that's, you know, we have that kind of set aside, and we're hoping to do a couple in Middle Tennessee this year. But the feedback from that, again, it was a, it was the home team, it was Christians. Mm-hmm. But the, what we heard the most was, "I knew this, but you, you gave me the way to articulate it- Mm
in a way that I could defend my faith." Mm-hmm. Uh, even Mayor Jacobs, you know, he said we could say this. Mm-hmm. Like, what, what... He said that, "You put the words into my thoughts of how I'd want to biblically argue this." Right. And so- Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: So I'm a pastor. Mm-hmm. Somebody comes and says, "Hey, I've got a problem."
I call you. What happens?
Adam Comer: Mm-hmm. That's all you have to do. We take it from there. Okay. And that's, that's, that's what we want pastors to know. That's what Pastor Carl, who's off camera, has, has gone. Give us this number. We have a team that'll answer the phone- Mm ... pray with you, give you guidance. If we can't help you, say we're full or say something scenario- Mm-hmm
we [00:31:00] have a list of Christ center- Christ-centered male and female places that if we can't help you, we'll find someone that can.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
Adam Comer: And we take it from there. And then let's say he does come to us.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Adam Comer: Say a congregate comes or a son of someone that you- Mm-hmm ... or a congregation comes to us, it's our job to make sure that we transition them back to you in a way that there's high communication.
Obviously, they have to sign releases saying, "We can speak to you" and- Right ... that's the best case scenario. Um, and then that would be the process, that we're handing them back off after they've done e- either phase one or phase two with us. Mm-hmm. And they're plugged in. They know where they're going when they come there.
They have someone that they're gonna plug into with a mentor and things like that. Um, a- on the other side of that, we have training. This is where the Recovering Christ Institute comes in. Mm-hmm. Because like you just said, and this was, this was very disheartening for me at first, um, but then it was kind of- Wow, Lord, really?
We, we found that a lot of times, [00:32:00] um, pastors are not equipped to deal with this. Um, or, um, afraid that if they say something wrong, someone could die. Mm-hmm. And that's true, you know, but they're dying when you s- are silent- Yeah ... in the droves. And so we've developed this to train, uh, church staff, to develop church ministry about addiction recovery, to learn how to disciple someone going through an addiction.
And so we've, we've la- actually LifePoint was our, um, was our... What's the word I'm thinking of, Carl? Our- Flagship church ... flagship church to launch Recovery in Christ Institute, where they went all the way. They trained 14 leaders. Mm-hmm. Um, they're having, now having reco- Recovery in Christ, uh, meetings on Tuesday nights.
Led
Mike Glenn: by our friend Pat Hood, who
Adam Comer: is- Or Pat Hood ... after
Mike Glenn: the, yeah ...
Adam Comer: Pat Hood. We say friend loosely. That's right.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Adam Comer: No, he's actually my mentor, and I love him. And, and I'm grateful for, for you in his life. Oh. Um, he spoke very highly of you. He went through some tragedy and with the passing of his wife, and he said that outside of LifePoint, you, you ministered to him more than anyone.
Mm-hmm. [00:33:00] And so personally to me, someone who loves him and is my mentor, I really, really appreciate that. 'Cause he needed it.
Mike Glenn: Mm.
Adam Comer: He needed it. Mm-hmm. It was a, a very hard season.
Sarah Keel: Yeah.
Adam Comer: So, but don't get all... Pat, if you're watching this, you're still-
Mike Glenn: You're still
Adam Comer: Pat ... yeah, you're still Pat. You're still Pat. So, but the fruit of that, uh, we have a curriculum called Lost and Found: Recovery in Christ.
Mm. It's straight from 2 Peter. Uh, and the verse says that you can escape the corruption that's in the world that comes from sinful desires.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: And anyone struggling with an addiction knows that word desire means something different. I lost everything because of a desire for something that big.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: And the Bible just said I can escape that, and then lists these seven principles of growing in your faith- Yeah ... sanctification.
Mike Glenn: Old Baptist preacher Carlisle Marnie said, "God can fix your wanter."
Adam Comer: Yeah. He can change your desires.
Sarah Keel: Yes.
Adam Comer: He can change your desires. He can
Mike Glenn: change- Such a good way to put it
he, he can change what you want.
Sarah Keel: Yeah. Help me not want this thing.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah, I don't want this anymore. Yeah. Yeah.
Adam Comer: Whatever. And so by God's grace- Yeah ... that curriculum is, I think, uh, being taught in churches in every state in the country.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. All right. [00:34:00] S- S- Sarah, is there a difference between female addiction and male addiction?
A- and I'm asking out of just ignorance here, so. Sure.
Sarah Keel: Yeah. No, it's a good question. Yeah. It's a very good question. Not ignorant at all. Um- So there, the approach is probably gonna be a little bit different. Mm-hmm. I would say the heart- And I
Mike Glenn: ask this as a grandfather- Yeah ... 'cause see, I have three granddaughters-
Sarah Keel: Mm-hmm
and
Mike Glenn: a little, a little grandson.
Sarah Keel: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Now, the grandson I can throw against the wall and- ... and, and stuff, and wrestle and all that. Right. Granddaughters will cry, and I don't know what I did wrong. You, you know? Yes. "What did you do?" I don't know. I was just-
Sarah Keel: Right ...
Mike Glenn: you know. So- Yeah ... you know, I'm just trying to figure out the whole difference in the, in the, in, in the makeup of little girls and little boys here, so.
Sarah Keel: Yeah, it's very different. So I'm sure Adam has had to walk through a season of just trust- ... in some of, like, my ideas for- Mm ... ministry for, to serve the women, 'cause it's radically [00:35:00] different than how they do- Mm ... how-
Adam Comer: I walked on campus and went in to view their offices and stuff, and everything was pink and purple.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, that's right.
Adam Comer: And I, I was like, "Looks good, guys." Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. "
Adam Comer: It looks good."
Mike Glenn: You know.
Sarah Keel: Don't know if you meant it or not, but- Yeah.
Mike Glenn: I
Adam Comer: mean, it does. It does. It's not, it's not my lane. It's
Mike Glenn: not, not in my lane.
Adam Comer: Yeah, I wasn't ready for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like this. This is nice. Yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe like a sword or something up there, too.
I like this,
Sarah Keel: too. Yeah. We do have some dark green offices for those who like moody colors. Yeah. I love moody colors.
Adam Comer: I don't even know what that
Sarah Keel: means- It can be- ... but
Adam Comer: moody. Yes.
Sarah Keel: The, the dark, darker-
Adam Comer: Intense ...
Sarah Keel: yes, intense. That's,
Adam Comer: that's
Sarah Keel: Spurgeon, not moody.
Adam Comer: Stoic.
Sarah Keel: Yeah. Yes. Um, no, but it, it, it, so I would say the heart of addiction's the same.
It's misguided worship, right? Yeah. Um, but the, the need, uh, the approach is probably... There's, there's a lot of differences. Mm. Um, so like with women, in a lot of ways we're, um, restoring dignity.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Mm.
Sarah Keel: [00:36:00] And- That's good ... a lot of times women in active addiction, that dignity has been given away, has been compromised, so there's a lot of just restoring, like, to be a precious daughter of Christ is something many can't even conceptualize.
Mm. Like, there's like a... Like, women can be strong. Women can be warriors. Women can be bold, and there is something about females that is also, um, there's a delicacy. There is, um, a preciousness. There's something to be cared for and protected. Mm-hmm. You know? So, like, I'm not saying i- you know, I don't want people to hear me say, like, "Oh, to be a woman means, you know- Mm
you need to be, you know, this little m- mousy person." No, I'm just saying there is this biblical reality of being a female- Mm-hmm ... uh, that has been lost in our postmodern culture.
Adam Comer: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sarah Keel: And [00:37:00] so some of that, like, restoring dignity, not to- Mm ... not in like a, a, a mousy, insincere, Pollyanna way, but like- A healing, restorative
Mike Glenn: You know, you mentioned the story of the woman who touched the hem of his garment
Sarah Keel: Yes
Mike Glenn: And when I, when I talk about that passage, I say the reason Jesus stopped was that the healing wasn't complete
Sarah Keel: Mm.
Mike Glenn: She was physically better-
Sarah Keel: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: but when he turned and called her daughter-
Sarah Keel: Oh, gosh Mm. Yes. It makes me wanna cry ... and
Mike Glenn: restored her
Sarah Keel: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: You know, the he- yeah, you're fine physically-
Adam Comer: Mm ...
Mike Glenn: but until you understand that you are daughter-
Adam Comer: Mm.
Sarah Keel: Mm-hmm. Gosh ...
Mike Glenn: the healing isn't complete Identity
Sarah Keel: Yeah It still brings tears to my eyes Mm
Mike Glenn: Mm
Adam Comer: Identity
Sarah Keel: Daughter
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Keel: Oh, my gosh. And do you know, like, I think the biggest epidemic right now that we have is fatherlessness.
Mike Glenn: Oh, yeah
Sarah Keel: You know, I've never had the experience... I was adopted when I was eight.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Keel: Uh, my adopted father, um, [00:38:00] he, y- you know, I love him. We have a great relationship. He's not a believer. He's, he's, he's a Jew from the Bronx, like very stern- Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah ... you know. Um, um, but I never had like a, a loving- Mm-hmm ... fatherly relationship with, um... Like I've never, I never had the experience of like being a little girl and looking up into the eyes of a father-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sarah Keel: that loved me, cared for me, and accepted me- Yeah ... you know? And now I have that in Christ.
Mm. Like I have that, I have my heavenly Father. But so many women have not had that, and- Mm-hmm ... the way that we relate to maleness or male authority- Right. God is trying to heal it, yeah ... in this world, it's been... Yeah. And it's been distorted, it's been perverted- Mm-hmm ... it's been tainted, it's been abused. Um, and so I mean, the...
it's so multilayered. Yeah Like addiction is so multilayered. Mm. And the way the restoration process for women is going to look radically different than the [00:39:00] restoration process for a man, but the heart of addiction, I would say, is the same.
Adam Comer: Yeah. Idolatry or unguided worship. Yes. I will
Mike Glenn: say there's- Let's, let's go back Yes Look, I, I wanna hit on...
because so much of what I deal with and, and, and you guys deal with is centered on idolatry.
Adam Comer: Mm.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. You know, I, I tell folks burnout is not from overwork. Burnout is from idolatry-
Sarah Keel: Mm ...
Mike Glenn: in that you're, you, you are serving something that you hope- Mm ... will give you life, will bless you back.
Adam Comer: Mm. Good
Sarah Keel: word
Mike Glenn: And a career and all of this can't do that.
Adam Comer: Right
Mike Glenn: And so you eventually just deplete yourself of energy, and that's the burnout. But it is not because you work too hard-
Adam Comer: Right ...
Mike Glenn: it's because of idolatry.
Adam Comer: Right
Mike Glenn: And then I've heard you guys mention a couple of times- Mm-hmm ... that the center of the addiction- Yeah ... is idolatry. Yeah So talk to me about that.
Adam Comer: Yeah. I think, I think- You know, the Lord says, "Come to me all who are weary and heavy laden, I'll give you rest for your soul." And instead of coming to Him when I'm weary or heavy laden, [00:40:00] or I have pain, or I have fear, or I have anxiety, or I have all of this, I'm going to use a bootleg substitute-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
Adam Comer: as opposed to going to the Father who says, "Come to me."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: And so whenever you do that, you, you, uh, you might get a sense of relief, you might get a sense of euphoria, you might get a sense of, "I'm not scared anymore," but that always is short-lived, and it always ends badly.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: Uh, because the more and more that I, I serve at the altar of that god, the more and more I see how that's gonna fail me, and how that's gonna harm me, and how when I serve him, it costs something.
Mm-hmm. It not only costs me and everything, but all my loved ones- Mm-hmm ... uh, go to the altar of that. Uh, and so that's why we say idolatry. Right. Not, not that there's not physical consequences to pain pills or- Right, right ... alcohol, or meth, or cocaine, or whatever, or porn, or gambling. Uh, I think even some studies show that there's the same firing in the [00:41:00] brain- Exactly
as watching porn as there is in opiates- That's right, yeah, yeah ... or even shopping. Uh, that, you know, there's a lot that's related there, but ultimately we're filling something. We're not doing that, like you said, I wasn't a little kid that was like, "Hey, I'm gonna be- "... gonna work at a rehab when I..." You know?
There was, there was something, and I even said, when I, when I had that first opiate-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ...
Adam Comer: something fired off, like, "That's what I've been missing my whole life." Well, what does that sound like? Idolatry, right? That's not what you've been mi- what are you missing? Why is there something wrong?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Adam Comer: I've gotta fix something.
Well, what do you gotta
Mike Glenn: fix? You have a one in 10 chance of being an addi- an addict just from the American population.
Adam Comer: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: One in 10.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: If you have it in your family, as I do-
Adam Comer: Mm-hmm ...
Mike Glenn: then it's 50/50.
Adam Comer: Uh, America, and I can't, it was in the documentary, but America, I think, is taking 90% of pharmaceuticals, and we're only 6% of, uh, in the world- Yeah, yeah
and we're only 6% of the world's population.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's good.
Sarah Keel: Clinically, addiction, so if you're gonna look at addiction, like to tie it back into like the misguided worship- Mm-hmm ... [00:42:00] idolatry conversation, so clinically, it's an avoidance disorder, so you're avoiding to suffer in sorrow. Mm-hmm.
Like, it's an avoidance, it's a form of escapism. Right. And there's so many forms of escapism, you know? Right. Um, so it's an avoidance disorder. It's also a bonding disorder. So we are created to be connected-
Adam Comer: Mm ...
Sarah Keel: to each other, ultimately to God. Like He said in the garden, "It is not good for man to be alone."
We have commands. That was pre-fall,
Adam Comer: by the way.
Sarah Keel: Yeah, that's pre-fall. So we are created to be in relationship to one another, so when, so if there is- Because of trauma, because of just the fall of this world, because of whatever. If someone has a hard time feeling connected to other people because they're, or to God, because they are created to be connected to something, they will bond to the substance as a surrogate relationship that they are supposed to be having with God.
Mike Glenn: Mm. Mm.
Adam Comer: So [00:43:00] essentially, we teach people how to suffer well.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Adam Comer: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Adam Comer: Hey, can I add something real quick? 'Cause I think, I think it is important, 'cause you had a question, and I think it is important about the differences.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Adam Comer: There's only, there's two things that I think are interesting. One, just serving in this ministry with men for 20 years, and then the last few months, I've noticed some differences.
But one, when it comes to addiction that we haven't seen a ton of with men is image disorders, like eating disorders- Yeah ... and, and, and body image disorders that we're starting to see could be prevalent and things like that. Mm-hmm. But then also the way the community has surrounded, 'cause you said something very, um, important about serving women and how you, um, what was the word you used?
Uh- Restoring
Sarah Keel: dignity.
Mike Glenn: Mm.
Adam Comer: Restoring dignity. Yeah. And something so cool that happened
Mike Glenn: yesterday- But how many times does Jesus tell someone to stand up?
Adam Comer: Mm.
Sarah Keel: Yes.
Mike Glenn: Stand up. That, the gospel restores dignity. Yes. You know, you have a name, you're s- you, you know, you're somebody kind of thing.
Adam Comer: We had a group- Love that
of women yesterday come take [00:44:00] all of the women and the staff to a s- beauty salon-
Mike Glenn: Ugh ...
Adam Comer: and just treated them all day. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And
Adam Comer: I was like, "I would have never in a million years-" No ... thought about that." And I thought, I got, kind of got emotional as, 'cause they made a little video about it, not their faces, but I was like, "Man, that's beautiful."
Yeah. Mm. "That's cool." And I, and I would've never, I mean, we go play paintball as men, you know?
Mike Glenn: Nothing about you is equipped to
Adam Comer: think,
Mike Glenn: to think that way.
Adam Comer: Yeah. Yeah. We do stuff-
Mike Glenn: Okay. How does, how do people get in touch with you?
Adam Comer: Uh, s2lrecovery.org. Uh, I don't know the number by heart, but S- T- S, the numeral 2, L recovery.org.
Okay.
Mike Glenn: Be the fast way. And Sarah, you're on that same website?
Sarah Keel: Yes.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Good. Yes. Yeah. Sarah Kiehl, thank you for being here. Thank you. Alan Comer, bless you, bro. Thank you so much. Thank you. It's been an
Adam Comer: honor.
Mike Glenn: Thank you. All right. I got a feeling it's gonna be a long friendship here,
Adam Comer: huh? Yeah, I hope so, man.
All right.
Mike Glenn: I hope so. Good deal.
Adam Comer: Thank
you.
