Where Excellence Meets Calling | David Hamilton
Excellence in ministry and excellence in craft don't have to compete. Composer and conductor David Hamilton has spent three decades serving his local church while writing for Disney, Broadway, and Dolly Parton's touring show. Mike Glenn talks with him about what it looks like to bring your full gifting into both the professional world and the local body -- and why the church is better when it does.
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Mike Glenn: Well, David Hamilton, it is an honor to have you on the podcast. You are, thank you. A well-known name in Music City right now. The, uh, director and arranger and conductor for, for the Dolly Parton show that's going around and, and all of that now. Folks don't understand. We've known each other
David Hamilton: long time,
Mike Glenn: you know?
When did you move to Nashville?
David Hamilton: I moved here in 1989.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Mm-hmm. And I came in 91.
David Hamilton: Yep.
Mike Glenn: And you were the substitute pianist?
David Hamilton: I was.
Mike Glenn: You, you weren't even the primary pianist then?
David Hamilton: No.
Mike Glenn: Uh, for, for Brentwood Baptist Church.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, having moved here, going to chase the big music dream and, uh, and so here you are.
You've, uh, you, you, you've got it.
David Hamilton: I'm still, I'm still chasing. You're still chasing. No, I'm, I'm grateful for lots of things, but yeah, I [00:01:00] remember those. I still remember that, that great time. And I'd always kinda wanted to, to move to Nashville when I was going to school before that. Mm-hmm. But, um, you know, you finally just take that step of faith out and, and go for it.
So, yeah. I remember it.
Mike Glenn: Oh gosh. Okay. For those who don't know you, let's kinda give 'em your background. You grew up in Miami?
David Hamilton: I did, yep. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And so when did the music bug hit you?
David Hamilton: Well, I started, uh, I've been playing the piano since I was about five years old. Uh, so I grew up there and I started taking piano lessons and I was the kinda kid who, um, I would go home and practice the piano before I went out.
To play, you know? Mm-hmm. After school. I mean, I wouldn't say I did it without a little encouragement right. From my parents, but I, I literally would, you know, I loved to play and so I, I grew up playing, took, taking lessons, and, and then I started playing in church. I, I think I started playing as the regular church pianos when I was [00:02:00] about 14 or 15 years old, and that's been just a part of my life, you know, as long as I've ever known.
But I studied and then. Left, uh, from Miami. I went to college at Wheaton College. Mm-hmm. In Wheaton, and I was a music major there. We
Mike Glenn: tell the famous stories of, of David from Miami and Chicago. Cole. Yes.
David Hamilton: Parka.
Mike Glenn: In
David Hamilton: September, the very first thing we did, my mom bought me this giant. Fargo with the fern and you know, and like in March and all my friends are out there and their shorts and I'm like, what?
Yeah. I'll never forget sitting in that practice room too, watching snow. 'cause I'd hardly ever seen snow before. Right. You know, so. Yeah. But it was really a good experience for me. I loved going to Wheaton learn so much. It's still, you know, I still take some of that with me. With me. Yeah. But, um. Then I finished Wheaton, then I went back to Miami to graduate school at the music school, at the University of Miami.
And I also served at a church at University of Baptist [00:03:00] Church in Coral Gables. Mm-hmm. Uh, while I was going to school and I worked with a dear friend of mine who's still a dear, uh, just a mentor to me, Chuck Bridwell. He was the Minister of Music there, and I served as his assistant and I led the choir and played, and I worked with the orchestra and just, just a, and.
More even than the ministry. It was having a person like that speak into my life. Mm-hmm. At that time.
Mike Glenn: And Chuck was good friends with Dennis, right?
David Hamilton: Chuck? Yeah, they did. They knew each other.
Mike Glenn: They knew each other. And so that's how you got connected
David Hamilton: mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: At, uh, Brentwood.
David Hamilton: Yeah. When we decided to move to Nashville, I, you know, Sandy and I looked at.
Different churches. Mm-hmm. And we're trying to figure out what we're doing and we, we came to Brentwood. I met Dennis, I met some other folks, and, you know, wasn't very long. We decided this is the right place for us. And then, then you
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Came
David Hamilton: along
Mike Glenn: you,
David Hamilton: yeah. Not too long after that. So been there ever since
Mike Glenn: Made you, made you have second thoughts, but do we wanna, do we wanna stay in with this, with this guy there?
No. So, alright, let, let's, [00:04:00] uh, let's go back, uh, you know. Um, as I tell young adults when they see pictures or meet senior adults, you think they were born grown?
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay. You think. That's, that's the way they've always looked. And they didn't, they had a life, they had a, uh, I remember being at a friend's house and Sandy is working for an insurance agent or something.
At the time she was working in
David Hamilton: human resources.
Mike Glenn: Yep, yep. Yeah. She was an agency. And y'all were talking about how fast the money was draining.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: How fast. Uh, how expensive it was and how slowly
David Hamilton: Yep.
Mike Glenn: It was for you to catch on and to, to make the necessary connections to get, to get the opportunities that, uh,
David Hamilton: right.
Mike Glenn: That now you're turning down.
David Hamilton: Yeah. Uh, no, that's very true. I, uh, I mean, I spent probably, I, I had just finished all this great school, that University of Miami is an amazing music school, right. Wheaton College, and I'm doing all this work and then [00:05:00] I come to Nashville and I spend a lot of time just. Shaking hands and you know, Hey, how are you doing?
And I'm grateful for a few people that, you know, as I look back, gave me some opportunities and invited me. But it was probably a year worth of not really doing that much work. Right. But just meeting people and little small opportunities that led to bigger ones, but yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Now we're talking. Small.
When you say small opportunities, let's, let's emphasize
David Hamilton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: How small it was. Do this
David Hamilton: right.
Mike Glenn: Transcribe this.
David Hamilton: Exactly.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
David Hamilton: And I tell students that all the time. They ask me about that. I say, well, how do you, how do you make it? You know? And I, first I ask the question, I ask, 'cause how much grit do you have?
Right. Okay. I mean, that's for all of us. But, but then I talk about those little small things that I tried to do well and if you. Hopefully if you have some character and you do well in the little thing, then somebody else hears about that little thing and mm-hmm. Hey, we need you to help her. So and so got sick.
We, you know, this guy David [00:06:00] Hamilton, right? We met him and well, he could come in. You know what I mean? And all those opportunities, you just don't know, but you try to do a good job with the small things and hopefully they lead to bigger things. Yeah, big things.
Mike Glenn: With that,
David Hamilton: that was
Mike Glenn: When was your first big break?
David Hamilton: I'll never forget this. Uh, I was playing the piano at church for our Christmas program and we often, uh, sometimes we told this we would hire in right. Some other professional musicians to fill out the orchestra. And I happened to be playing right next to the fellow who Carl Gosky was his name right. For many years, he led a group called the Nashville String Machine.
Sure. Played on all the records. And so I'm playing the piano and he's playing the violin right next to me, and I'll just, I'll never forget after the program, he said, man, I like how you play. Would you like to do a session? And I'm, you know, I was like. Sure when tomorrow. Yep. Yeah, I'd love to look at my calendar free tomorrow.
So I, I just remember that conversation. And then, you know, not too long after [00:07:00] that, he did call me and ask me if I'd play on a session and I did my first one and it was an interesting experience and I'd learned I had some positive and some negative, but I just kept at it and they, they liked what I did.
And, you know, one thing led to another months later I was. Doing sessions all the time. Mm-hmm. You know, so that was a important, uh, just a small thing at the time. Right. But it was an important step in a good direction with that.
Mike Glenn: Now I've been in Nashville since 1991.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: One of the unique things about David Hamilton is that you have remained committed to the local church.
Mm-hmm. Uh, um, you're, you if you're in town. You're part of the worship team. Yep. Uh, if you're not on the, the piano, you're on the keyboards or, or, or, or something. You are, you're there. Right. Most of our friends, and we know a lot of them, once they get this busy in, in, in their career, let, let, let the [00:08:00] church music go.
David Hamilton: Right.
Mike Glenn: Why have you stayed committed?
David Hamilton: Think about, I think about that a lot. Um. I think, I think for me it's, it's just my place. I feel like it's a calling.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hamilton: It's, it's deeper than just the music, you know, it's something that I feel called to do and it's a, it's a service. Um, I, I don't always get it right, but I try to kind of.
I, in fact, I, I almost do this every time I get out of the truck and go to church in the morning. I'm like, mm-hmm. Why am I doing this today? Mm-hmm. Know, and God, what, what, what do you have for me? And I'm, I'm just trying to follow him. I'm trying to follow what God wants me to do, and I'm also trying to do it out of gratitude.
For what he's done for me. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I can't repay him. It's not, it's not about repayment. We can't do that. But I can do it out of gratitude and love and, and I just still believe me, it also, um. Even though there are [00:09:00] challenges to it.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hamilton: It's joyful. For me, I really love leading people and I love the community of faith that we have at church and the music, you know, like with our choir for instance.
Mm-hmm. It's more than about singing. It's about the people and the community and. Uh, we have so many different musical abilities in that group, right? And, um, I'm a leader and I enjoy, you know, that, that role. Um, so yeah, it's just something that I, I, I'm real passionate about and I don't, I don't judge anybody else who, as you mentioned that, right.
You know, they, everybody has their reasons why or why not, but I just feel like it's the right thing for me to do, and I, I'm still committed
Mike Glenn: to it. Well, well, a lot of our friends would say, I play all week,
David Hamilton: right?
Mike Glenn: And, and when I come to church, I don't want to do any of that. I'm just. Almost burned out on it.
David Hamilton: Yeah, I could understand that
Mike Glenn: a little bit.
David Hamilton: I can understand that, uh,
Mike Glenn: with that.
David Hamilton: Yeah. I think there are challenges to it. I mean, I've always wrestled with, and I'm grateful for some people that have helped me through it. [00:10:00] You, you have. Mm-hmm. And I, my dear friend Dennis Worley, who was Minister of Music at Music Brent, under a long,
Mike Glenn: for so long
David Hamilton: Yeah.
He, uh. People like that have helped me navigate the, you know, Saturday night I've got my professional musician hat on Sunday morning I take that off and I put my church music hat on and what does that look like? Mm-hmm. And there's, there's challenges to it. And also, yeah. It's not that it's easy all the time, but I love doing it and I'm still passionate about it.
So,
Mike Glenn: well, one of your fans, my son Craig.
David Hamilton: Mm, yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, I guess y'all talked Sunday or something?
David Hamilton: I, I, I just was walking by. I was like, wait,
Mike Glenn: doing okay. So he text me Sunday afternoon and said, I heard Hamilton is going to be on your podcast Uhhuh. Why don't you just let him play? Nobody wants to hear you anyway.
That's not true from my, from my own son. Yeah. [00:11:00] Just sit down and be quiet. We, so we, we, we couldn't get, figure out a way to get a piano in here, but we would've, we, we would've just let you play now. Uh, again, folks, folks don't realize how close our journeys have been over these years. You get, you get one of your first big gigs, I believe it was writing for Disney.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or I've done that for a good long time. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And you turn it in and it got shredded.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: To hear you talk about
David Hamilton: it. Yep, yep, yep.
Mike Glenn: Now, the reason I bring this up is because excellence. Is, uh, is a theme of yours mm-hmm. A driving passion for you?
David Hamilton: It is.
Mike Glenn: And, um, it was in those kind of moments where you learned, uh, or where it began to kind of take root in you that whatever I bring to Christ has to be as, [00:12:00] as, as good, better than what I bring to the world.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm. I, I am. Yeah. That's well said. I, I, I feel like I don't want to bring to Jesus something that doesn't cost me something.
Mike Glenn: Alright, break that down for me.
David Hamilton: Um, what I mean by that is to just sort of say, well, it's, it's just church or whatever. I'm just gonna sort of phone it in. Yeah. Or I'm just gonna, it's okay.
You know, that that doesn't cost me much. But it costs me something if I'm prepared, and if I'm trying to do it the very best I can, I, um, it's not about the perfection part of it. I'm not trying to, uh, and if I start thinking it is, if I start thinking somehow that God needs my right notes and I'm, I'm kind of woo, I'm off the rails.
I've got it wrong. That's about me. And that's not what I'm doing. But, but I think I can and I try, come [00:13:00] prepared and do what God's given me the gift to do as well as I can do it. Um, we, we talk a lot about the big unfortunate P word. Mm-hmm. The word performance. Mm-hmm. You know, and church music and, and I.
I know that that's a kind of a big negative word for a lot of people. I sort of have a little different take on it. Mm-hmm. Because I think God's given me the ability to be a musician. He, he's given you the gift of speaking. Mm-hmm. You know, we, we all have our gifts, but mine is being a musician and I don't play the piano or sing for the wall.
Mike Glenn: Right.
David Hamilton: I, I, I do what I do and it. Hopefully if I do it well, it, you know, it moves people you want it to. Mm-hmm. Or you want it to impact people. And so that's actually performing. The, the trick is when it's performing for, Hey, look at me. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Then, then I'm doing it for the wrong reason. Yeah. But when I'm using my gifts, well, I'm doing what God's given me to do.
I'm playing with passion and I'm trying to play musically well, and it's my [00:14:00] body and all of, all of it put together. That's. That's really performing, but I hope for the right reason. You know?
Mike Glenn: Well, I tell people that there is a difference between a worship leader and a musician.
David Hamilton: Yeah. Big time.
Mike Glenn: Okay. A musician plays for the audience.
David Hamilton: Right.
Mike Glenn: And, and the energy goes from the musician to the audience. Back to the musician.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: A worship leader creates a vortex. That pulls the people from where they are. Past the musician.
David Hamilton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Into the presence.
David Hamilton: That's great. I haven't heard it said that way. I like that.
Mike Glenn: So,
David Hamilton: yeah,
Mike Glenn: it's copyrighted, so if you use,
David Hamilton: there you go.
Mike Glenn: I've learned some things about being in Nashville, right?
David Hamilton: Well,
Mike Glenn: I tell people when you preach in Nashville, the bad thing is you'll say something, you know, a little witty and you see all your writers going,
David Hamilton: right? If we're going like this, oh God, I
Mike Glenn: keep going. No, no, no. Word for a third. I've been here. Right?
I've been here long enough. I know how that, I know how that works.
David Hamilton: Yeah, [00:15:00] yeah. No, I think you're at. You're right. And I think as a worship leader, we are, uh, hopefully shepherding our congregation and we are trying to create an atmosphere in the worship center in on Sunday morning or whenever it is. We're trying to do our best to create an atmosphere where God meets people and we're not doing the work of God.
That's, that's right. That's his job. That's right. Yeah. But I, but I can do what I. Gifted to do, to create an atmosphere that encourages people comfortable room to join, to be moved by what they hear. Mm-hmm. To participate. Whether it's, you know, we're singing or we're praying or what, whatever it is, but we're trying to create an atmosphere.
Okay. Come and, and say, okay, God, what do you have for us today? What, what do you want?
Mike Glenn: You have conducted. Some of, of the world's great orchestras.
David Hamilton: I've been grateful yes. To, to,
Mike Glenn: and uh, you know, we, we've been there Sunday where you said, I've gotta go to the airport 'cause you headed to Prague or London or, or somewhere.
David Hamilton: Yeah. [00:16:00]
Mike Glenn: Yeah. But there are a lot of Sundays where I see you work and you don't have world class musicians.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: You have people with good hearts that love Jesus.
David Hamilton: Absolutely. Uh,
Mike Glenn: but aren't world class musicians?
David Hamilton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: But you work with 'em anyway.
David Hamilton: I do, and I love that. I really do.
Mike Glenn: Well, you know. Yeah. But these folks would never have access.
To a David Hamilton mm-hmm. Outside the church experience.
David Hamilton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And there you are conducting there you are.
David Hamilton: Right.
Mike Glenn: Uh, I've, I've seen you, uh, coach Soloist as you played accompany them and, and that kind of thing.
David Hamilton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, and I'm out there thinking, David, there's just not a whole lot you can do here, but you give them confidence.
David Hamilton: Right.
Mike Glenn: And, and they perform well
David Hamilton: trying to do that. [00:17:00] Yeah. I just, you know, what I think about Mike is I, I'm grateful for my gifts, but I had people do that for me when I, I can look back and I know stories of people that did things to help me as I was, you know, growing. Mm-hmm. I, I'll a quick, sorry. I had a minister of music.
When I was in high school, I started, as I mentioned, I was just starting play and he used to, uh, do things like on Sunday night he would say, oh, David, I think I wanna sing Amazing Grace in the Key of A Flat tonight. It's normally in g. And I'd be like, what? And I thought, why, you know? And sometimes I thought he was not prepared, and then I realized he's doing that for me,
Mike Glenn: right?
David Hamilton: Because he knew I could do it. And he wanted to kind of gently put me in a position to stretch out my musical abilities a little bit. It wasn't. Selfish or anything. He was just trying to help me and I didn't Yeah. See that at the time. Mm-hmm. But he was sort of coaching me and so I think that's part of what was planted [00:18:00] in me by some other folks.
And I, I love, um, I love that I. I sometimes save emails from ministers of music that have done some of my arrangements, like a Christmas program or something. And I love to save the one that says, I bought your musical. And my choir looked at me like I was from Mars. 'cause we can't do this. And, and then, and then they send me another email.
Yeah. And they said, we worked really hard at it and we had a great time. Thank you. And I was like, okay. That's right. I love that, you know, trying to help people step up their ability and realize, well, you can do this. You, you know, you might have to learn something new, right. Or, or work at it. But, and, and again, it's not, Hey, look at us.
You know? Mm-hmm. We did something great. It's, I'm using my gifts as good as I can do, and I'm learning and I'm doing it 'cause I want to offer God something that. Cost me something, but Right. You know, I say, thank you, God for what you've done, you know?
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
David Hamilton: Yeah. Um, I think the whole thing you mentioned [00:19:00] about being a professional and then being a church with different mm-hmm.
Musical abilities. It sometimes it's challenging. Right. You know, have to switch gears. Mm-hmm. Uh, there, I mean, I wouldn't be truthful, I didn't say there were times when I've come, I'm going, oh man, I wish we could have done that better. But that's, that's part of it too. But I love. I, I use our choir as an example.
I just love that there are people in our choir who have just sung sessions all week long, right?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hamilton: Amazing. They're professionals. And then there are some other folks who don't sing that well at all, but as you said, they are singing it. Completely because they love Jesus. That's right. And God's given them gift.
It might be a smaller gift. Mm-hmm. But they're doing everything they can and they're, they do it with joy. And I, and I, I just think that's fantastic.
Mike Glenn: But I have seen you direct our choir.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And, uh, and, and you wrote 'em pretty hard.
David Hamilton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: I mean, let's [00:20:00] not
David Hamilton: no,
Mike Glenn: uh, you know, this, this nice humble David Hamilton that we all know when you step on the uhhuh on the podium, it is, there is a standard.
David Hamilton: Right.
Mike Glenn: And there's an expectation of how this song is to be sung. Sure. And how it is to sound. And you're gonna meet that standard.
David Hamilton: Yeah. Right. I, I'm not trying to demand people that outta people. I'm trying to inspire them. Mm-hmm. That's what I hope. I think that's part of being a good leader and a good conductor or, um, if you, if you are inspired yourself, then that that feeds out into people that serve with you and that you are leading and they are inspired and.
Kinda spreads. If you're up there and you're not inspired yourself, then they don't really see that right. And wanna follow that. So I'm hopefully, when I'm in a leadership role like that, inspiring them to, okay, let's really do that. Or can we try that again? Let's see if we can sing that a little bit more in tune or, or you know, let's sing this phrase that way.
Hopefully they [00:21:00] feel it as a right. Inspiration from me and not a Why aren't you, me into, yeah. That kind of a
Mike Glenn: And you're working, you're working toward the goal and you're getting closer
David Hamilton: every time. Yeah. We encourage you to do better
Mike Glenn: with that.
David Hamilton: I love that.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Yeah. Now you started in Christian music.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: You got into country music, you got into, uh, Broadway music. I mean, the whole gamut is now, right? Is is where you're working. Uh, and, uh, so, so tell me the difference.
David Hamilton: Hmm. That's a great question. Um, I find that the pressure sometimes in the o in the worlds that are not, uh, with Christian music are different kinds of pressures.
Mm-hmm.
David Hamilton: There's a very, um. Uh, I hate to say it, but it's true. There's a very much a self-centered mentality I find. It's like, oh, I've gotta present mm-hmm. My thing so that everybody sees me a certain [00:22:00] way. And, um, I mean, that happens in Christian music too, unfortunately, but I find it much stronger in the secular environment.
Um, and I think there's, um. I, I have tried to combat this in whatever small way I can. Unfortunately, I've been in situations where there's a, an arrogance in the secular environment. When you talk, you can't really talk about Christian music or church read. Mm-hmm. Because like, oh, that's a. You know, that's what the Christians do.
It's not really true, but mm-hmm. It, it happens sometimes. And so I, I have to find ways to, I'm trying to be salt and light and I'm trying to let my witness just speak as loud as I can. I can't always say something, but I'm trying to just, you know, be myself. And so there's something different about that guy.
You know, I, I don't know if that happens, but I try. Mm-hmm. Um, but there's, um. There's [00:23:00] similarities, there are some of the same kind of professional business pressures in both worlds. Right. And so a lot of people don't understand that sometimes about Christian music, but that, you know, it's just, it's much of a, the business part of it mm-hmm.
Goes across. So it's like, well, are we gonna do that to make some good money or not? That's right. Yeah. You know, and, you know, there's good and bad with that.
Mike Glenn: Right.
David Hamilton: So, um, but I. I have enjoyed and am grateful for some of the opportunities that I've had in other markets. As you mentioned, I've worked with a really good friend of mine for many years on some music for Disney and, and I'm working on a, the country music thing.
I've been mm-hmm. Writing the last year I've written a show of all of Dolly Parton's music. That's a whole different group of folks mm-hmm. That I had never worked with before and. I love the creative energy that's there and I love the passion that they, that's, you know, going into all of that. Um, so that, I don't think that really changes no matter what kind of musical [00:24:00] world you're in, that that joy and passion of being a musician and trying to, you know, just do your, the best you can.
That's, that goes across the board. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Alright, let's get on a pet peeve of mine.
David Hamilton: Okay.
Mike Glenn: Mar and worship.
David Hamilton: Yep.
Mike Glenn: Uh, it frustrates me.
David Hamilton: Okay.
Mike Glenn: So I'll, I'll, I'll let you be The first response. You and I have heard this conversation before. Sure. Uh, uh, uh, uh, a lot. So,
David Hamilton: yeah. Um, it's a huge, I mean, we could spend a couple hours talking about it, so, um, I think, let's see if I can say in a short way. I, I,
Mike Glenn: now let me, let me first say, okay.
I believe it is vital.
David Hamilton: Yeah,
Mike Glenn: I believe it is vi vital. I, I think it is natural for a human being to express worship through music, through song, even if you like me and you have no talent at all, it's still a natural e expression. [00:25:00] And I think one of the most important things that, that Dennis was, uh, worldly, the guy we served with, uh, for so long, Travis Tre, does it give me something I can sing during the week?
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Don't, don't make it so, uh, creative and so complicated that I, I can't sing. It stopped at a red light.
David Hamilton: Right.
Mike Glenn: Uh, with that, give me something that helps me worship during the week.
David Hamilton: Yep.
Mike Glenn: Uh, with that. So I think it, I think it is vital, but sometimes. Uh, it's pitch way too high for guys. You know, they get mad at guys 'cause we don't sing.
We're not 10. It's like, I can't, I can't sing. I'm not, I'm not Steve Perry of Journey.
David Hamilton: Right.
Mike Glenn: Uh, out here, uh, uh, the, the, the song sometimes say things to Jesus that a guy would never say to Jesus.
David Hamilton: Right? Yep.
Mike Glenn: You know, it's, it's very feminine and, and, and, and, and. [00:26:00] With that. And you know, I, I, I, I tell people I want a song that says, Jesus, I got your six.
Mm-hmm. But, but, and there's a lot of things that rhyme with six. I don't know why it's not, I don't know why it, it is not, it's not out there. But that's the kind way a guy would talk. Uh, to Jesus. Mm-hmm. But I, I don't have that now. Some of the old great hymns
David Hamilton: Right.
Mike Glenn: Use some stronger language like that.
Yeah. But a lot of our, a lot of our current hymns don't.
David Hamilton: I think I, I think a few things that I, that come to mind as you're talking. I think part of what you're feeling is a response to the style of the music. Okay. It's a style question.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
David Hamilton: Um, and a lot of, without getting too technical about it, um, you know.
Yeah. As you said, modern worship writers, I, I sort of don't even like to use the [00:27:00] word modern worship, you know? Mm-hmm. But, but we're talking about the same thing is we're trying to write songs and deliver songs that when we lead worship, as you say, people will sing. Mm-hmm. Everybody will sing and hopefully sing it throughout the week.
And I think one thing that's very interesting is that I can remember, I'm sure you can too, a time in church when not. Everything that we did on the Sunday was everybody singing the whole time.
Mike Glenn: Right.
David Hamilton: There were some moments where it was more presentational. Mm-hmm. Where, oh, you, you sang. A, a, a worship song or a hym or whatever.
And then the choir sang choir a song to you. Choir or
Mike Glenn: choir. So Louis did the off tour,
David Hamilton: right. So yeah, I played so many off tours. Yeah. Uh, you know, whatever, whatever that was. And, and you were inspired or moved hopefully by what you heard, but you weren't participating in it. Mm-hmm. You were listening to it now.
We don't do that nearly as much. And much of the goal of what we're doing is trying to have everything, be everybody singing. I think [00:28:00] that's
Mike Glenn: a, I hadn't thought of that, but that, that, yeah. Yeah. That is a very real change. I,
David Hamilton: I think there's good and bad in that. Mm-hmm. I, I, I think it's fantastic. Is what you said is that I've got songs that you can sing in the middle of the week while you're driving and, and that re they resonate with you.
Mm-hmm. And they, they, um, I also love the idea of. The corporate, we're all singing together these songs. Mm-hmm. We're the negative side of it is often, unfortunately, it has limited the number of people that are involved in Right. Leading people in worship. If you're not part of the band in a lot of churches, there's about five people.
Mm-hmm. Then you're not involved. And that sort of has taken away opportunities for, right. If you have a choir like, like we do at Brentwood Best, that's a wonderful thing. And we have a larger music ministry with our orchestra, all that. There's a lot more people involved, but sometimes it's in many churches it's just shrunk the number of people that are musicians that have the opportunity to do that.
And I think that's kind of sad that we've taken away [00:29:00] because of, we've chosen to do another style and another approach. Mm-hmm. We've taken away some of that. Um. So there's a tension there between are we doing stuff in worship every week? Are we leading people in that everybody sings all the time? Or do they just listen to something that's more presentational?
That's a challenge and a, you know, a tension right in, in leading and planning. So, but I also think that, um, a musical style is that music. Um. In the, when we hear more modern worship music, it is geared toward a sound. There's a way you do it. There's a way you play it. There's a way you write through. It's a, it's a vibe, it's a sound that.
People love and it resonates, especially with people that are younger than me and you.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. What, so what's your point here, right? I'm
David Hamilton: No, I was gonna say I'm right there with you, you know? Uh, but, but it just resonates. Yeah. And so that's why I also think, um, one of the biggest challenges I [00:30:00] have against it, or how do I say it?
One of the things that I wrestle with the most is that we often are sort of presented as, if you don't do worship this way, you're not really worshiping.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
David Hamilton: It's like it has to be down this one lane because that's what everybody's presenting. That's what's being sold. Mm-hmm. And that we think that's what everybody's looking to.
But that's not really what worship, it's not about a lane.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Well, yeah. But yeah. But. But, um, you know, one, one of the funniest, one of the funniest things I have, uh, one of the funniest stories I have about being in Nashville, I was sitting with a group of musicians
mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Black and white musicians. Yep.
And we were talking about, I love jazz, I love blues. And we're talking about our favorite artist. And I made the statement, I, I just don't get hip hop. Okay. I just don't, yeah. I just don't get it. And one of the black musicians leaned over to me and goes. It is not for you. Ah, if we leave the concert. And a 60-year-old, white, [00:31:00] black, a white Baptist pastor is going, that was the jam.
Right. We probably did it wrong.
David Hamilton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike Glenn: So I, I, I, I, I'm much better at saying, Hey, that's not for me.
David Hamilton: Sure.
Mike Glenn: I'm, I'm, I'm not the target.
David Hamilton: Right.
Mike Glenn: You know, when Taylor Swift writes, she's not writing for me.
David Hamilton: Absolutely right.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and, and, and, okay. That's okay. There's, you know, yeah. Other restaurants, uh,
David Hamilton: thing and another challenge with it, Mike, is that, and I, I try to be gentle about how I say this to musicians, but a lot of times the reason.
People say I like or don't like what I've heard on Sunday, or particular sites 'cause they're not hearing it done very well.
Mike Glenn: Oh,
David Hamilton: I've talked to people who I've discovered, say, oh, I don't like this particular thing or that thing. And I realized that. That's 'cause they've not actually heard mm-hmm. One style or other.
Done very well. And, and I really try to encourage other musicians with that [00:32:00] concept is that sometimes as a worship leader, you, well most of the time, you stand in front of the congregation and you are the person leading the music, not only and also being the pastor to your team mm-hmm. And trying to, but you're doing your thing and you want to win.
And your thing might be this lane right here, right? The idea of doing this lane over here if that's not your lane is real scary,
Mike Glenn: right?
David Hamilton: It's like, oh man, I don't know how to play that. Yeah. Or I can't do that. And so having the maturity to either. Have other people on your team that can do a different lane and saying, Hey, what, why don't you do this?
Yeah. And let me do this. Or having the, uh, we were talking about excellence is like, oh, I'm gonna go home and practice this week and I'm gonna learn how to play this song over the year that I never did before. Mm-hmm. That takes some, some grit. Mm-hmm. You know, and some determination. I see that and sometimes I don't see that.
And I've tried to do that in my own ministry, in my [00:33:00] own professional life is, it just doesn't happen. You gotta work at it. Right. You know, I gotta sit down at the piano and learn how to play this thing that might not be my deal of the river. So I think that's so important, and I think that translates to how people respond when they hear different kinds of music.
Mike Glenn: To hear you talk
David Hamilton: mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: About how hard you work at playing the piano.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: It is very odd to me because I see how effortlessly
David Hamilton: mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: You play when you perform.
David Hamilton: Yeah. Well that Well, thank you for saying that. It's effortless. It's not effortless.
Mike Glenn: Well, well that, that's, you know, it's the old, the old duck theory.
Right. Gliding across water and underneath the water you're working like crazy. Yeah.
David Hamilton: Right.
Mike Glenn: Uh, with that now, uh, you and I have had the privilege of being friends for a very, very long time. And, and one of the interesting things about your story in particular. Is how your walk with [00:34:00] Christ and your own discipleship has been reflected in your music.
Mm-hmm. And the way that you play
David Hamilton: mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And the depth and the change. And all of that.
David Hamilton: Yeah. Wow. That's first of all, that means a lot that you would say that to me. 'cause I know you've helped me, you've walked through a lot of life with me and I'm so grateful for your friendship and for being my pastor.
But you would, that, you would see that 'cause Yeah, that's true. Um, because. I don't know that I'd ever be able to get away from not expressing myself through my music. That's, mm-hmm. That's just what I do, you know, and my, my fingers and my writing and all. Um, but, uh, your
Mike Glenn: hands can't be where your heart isn't.
David Hamilton: That's true. You, you can sort of fake it, but I think really emoting and being authentic and real is it's gotta be all mm-hmm. Sort of connected together. Yeah. Um, I'm, I'm. I had this happen to me once in a while, [00:35:00] and I just, it blows my mind. Well, I'll, you know, you, you've, we've been in worship together where you were praying and I'm playing the piano maybe as a underscore to that, and you might say something and it would make me think of about a song.
Yeah. Or whatever. And I'll, I'm not trying to be distracting, but I'm, it's my own worship moment, you know, and I start playing and then. I've sometimes gotten a text from somebody afterwards. Mm-hmm. Or an email, or they'll see me and Thank you for playing that song today. I just needed to hear that. And I, I went, wow.
I
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
David Hamilton: I would never have known that I, I mean, I just was trying to do what I felt, but God's working right in ways that. You or I don't see, I had no idea that that song might be as impactful to that person as it was. Mm-hmm. But that, that kind of blows me away, you know? And that sort of stuff happens, but I'm just trying to be.
Authentic and, and just, you know, trying to play and feel, you know, what I, what I feel, [00:36:00] what I know. So I'm grateful
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
David Hamilton: For those kind of things.
Mike Glenn: You and Sandy have been married. Sandy Hamilton, David's wife was featured on another podcast a few weeks ago. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, how long you guys have been married?
How long?
David Hamilton: 38.
Mike Glenn: 38 years. Two kids.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Jesse,
David Hamilton: Jesse and Becker are too, and their spouses now. Grateful. So grateful to have my family here in town
Mike Glenn: and uh, uh. Two grandbabies.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: What that,
David Hamilton: yep. I had a birthday this week and I had a birthday lunch with all my girls. Got a photo of me holding my two grand babies, and it was Sandy, Becca, and Emily, the moms.
Mike Glenn: Oh God.
That's
David Hamilton: pretty cool.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Well, you're broke. You're broke. What changes from, from being a struggling musician, fresh to Nashville? To reaching some level of success to being a father and now a grandfather?
David Hamilton: Hmm. [00:37:00] Lots, lots of changes, but I think one of the things that I, um, am trying to be more and more aware of is what are the most important things?
Mike Glenn: Ah. Yeah.
David Hamilton: And sometimes I get distracted by the not as important things by the stuff that's right there on my plate. You know this, I gotta finish this and blah da dah. And I, so I'm trying to be more mindful. Well,
Mike Glenn: folks that, folks who don't understand the music business or may not be aware of it, is you will get a call and somebody in LA or New York will need a chart tomorrow.
David Hamilton: Yeah. It's, it's sometimes crazy, crazy what people expect and what I have
Mike Glenn: to decide. And you go all night. Sometimes several nights trying to get this thing done and we'll call you and say, Hey, let's go to lunch. And you're go, no, I'm buried.
David Hamilton: Yeah. And uh, yeah, I, I try not to do that the night thing like I used to, but Yeah.
But I have lots of stories there.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
David Hamilton: And honestly, lot of stories before I came over here this morning. Yeah. I spent an hour writing the percussion part on a newer Christmas arrangement because I have to [00:38:00] have it finished and it's, you know, there's a deadline. I thought, okay, well. I got announced
Mike Glenn: it's March and you're writing
David Hamilton: Christmas
Mike Glenn: music.
David Hamilton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's very true. It's right before Easter. I, I can't re never forget a few years ago, Easter weekend, I was writing Angels. We have Heard On, I was like, what? This is crazy how that kind of works. Yeah. That doesn't
Mike Glenn: line up,
David Hamilton: but, but all that to say is, yeah, those kinds of things are important and you have to.
You know, to deliver what you commit to. But I am trying to be more and more mindful of what's more important than that. And certainly I've always tried to do that, but it even now, more so with my family, right? And what a joy that is to, to speak, you know, have my grandkids and, and we are so grateful to have our.
Our family here in Nashville. Right. That's been a, an unexpected, wonderful blessing. But, um, so I think the other thing is, um, and you've helped me with this. I don't know if you remember the time you asked me to [00:39:00] talk to you, interviewed me on a Sunday morning one time about my, my wrestling with, um, my value.
Is my value in what I do. Mm-hmm. Or who I am and who, how God sees me. And that, that's a struggle that we all have. But I think it's a particularly difficult struggle in the creative
Mike Glenn: right
David Hamilton: business where you're, you know, you step on a stage every night or whatever, you walk in a studio and the people, I hope they like what I wrote here, 'cause that's how I'm gonna get my next gig or not.
And that, that's a real, real
Mike Glenn: struggle. Well, and, and Nashville is known for, what have you done for me lately?
David Hamilton: Exactly. Yeah. I, I'm sure you understand that too, as a Yeah. As a pastor and you stand in front of everybody all the time. And, um, so that, that's been a long journey for me that I'm, you know, I'm still on and you've helped me a lot with that.
Right. Um, but I, I'm grateful I've had some. Real struggles with that, and I've had some, some joys with it too, but I'm trying to be mindful of why am I doing this and what's most [00:40:00] important and is my value based on what I do? No, it's important and I love what I do, but, and I don't always get that right.
Yeah, that's a, that's a struggle, but yeah.
Mike Glenn: Well, if I could ever, ever play the panel like you do, I would be. One, one happy dude. Unless I go play the, the Gibson Les Paul. Oh, there you go. You know, I tell people, I say, when y'all get to heaven, y'all gonna go ask Jesus a bunch of questions. I'm gonna go around where he stories all the instruments and I'm gonna be playing.
Oh,
David Hamilton: okay. So
Mike Glenn: that's what I'm gonna do for the first couple of hundred years. What's next for David Hamilton?
David Hamilton: You know what I'm, um, I'm coming into that. Part of my career, you know, I've done been doing it a long time. I keep asking myself, what do I really want to do?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
David Hamilton: What does that look like? And I, I mean, being a little vulnerable, I probably haven't done that as well as I would like, is been able to say, what do I really want to [00:41:00] do?
Yeah. And instead of what everybody else expects me to do. Mm-hmm. So I'm trying to ask myself that and, and praying about that and asking God to show me, what do you want me to do? And I don't know if I have all the answers to that, but that's definitely a question I. You know, I ask, I just turned 62. I'm grateful for a lot of years of doing it, child, I'm just keeping on going.
Mike Glenn: Mere child, you go with that.
David Hamilton: I'm real excited about. Um, you know, the, I've been involved, I think I mentioned this show featuring Dolly Parton's music in the Nashville Symphony and we're about to do a summer run, which is a real unusual thing for a phony to do a full run for seven weeks. Uh, that that doesn't really happen very often.
So. That's a, a cool thing that I'm excited about coming up this summer. So
Mike Glenn: how to find, how do people find out more about you? David Hamilton
David Hamilton: music.com. It's DD Hamilton Music.
Mike Glenn: D
David Hamilton: Hamilton Music, yeah. D hamilton music.com. Yep. And I'm, um, you can find me. I'm not the greatest social media guy, but I do, you can find on Instagram and, uh, but yeah, I, I try to keep, well, he's
Mike Glenn: the grand babies [00:42:00] now.
They all
David Hamilton: right.
Mike Glenn: They'll, they'll do some of that.
David Hamilton: And I have. Two. Wonderful. My daughter and son-in-law are both vice president level music marketing executives, so we're like, come on, dad. Or if I pick up the phone, I say, what do I do?
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
David Hamilton: So,
Mike Glenn: yeah.
David Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: It is a, a real honor to be your friend.
David Hamilton: Thank you. You too.
Mike Glenn: And, uh,
David Hamilton: yeah,
Mike Glenn: glad to have watched Your career has been a real kick for me.
David Hamilton: Well, you've been a big part of it.
Mike Glenn: Well,
David Hamilton: you've encouraged me and walked along through good and not good. And yeah. Well, pH that's. I wouldn't. That's a blessing.
Mike Glenn: Desperate. Yeah. Good stuff. David. Thank you.
David Hamilton: Thank you.
Mike Glenn: Enjoyed it. You've honored us by being here.
David Hamilton: Well, I appreciate it. I'm glad to be here.
