The Church Was Never Meant to Be the Mission | Darren Tyler
Most churches ask people to join the church. What if we've been asking the wrong question?
In this episode, Mike Glenn sits down with Conduit Church pastor Darren Tyler to discuss why the church was never meant to be the mission, but the vehicle for God's mission. Together, they explore how churches can move beyond attendance and programs to equip everyday believers to live on mission.
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Mike Glenn: Well, Darren, welcome to, to the podcast. Now, anytime I'm introducing somebody, I, my running line is, um, I really wish my mother-in-law were here to hear that about, about me. But, but for those of us, those of, uh, of our friends who are new to this podcast, introduce yourself.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. My name's Darren Tyler. I'm a pastor of 16 years-
Mike Glenn: Mm
Darren Tyler: here in middle Tennessee. Washed up rock and roll manager of 20 years, turned pastor. W- I'm supposed to be in Africa right now, so I didn't just get back from anywhere, but-
Mike Glenn: Okay ... you all,
Darren Tyler: uh, kind of-
Mike Glenn: Kinda cut that ...
Darren Tyler: kinda rained on our parade over there, so
Mike Glenn: yeah. Our running joke among our friends is we get the paper and find out where the world's blowing up and say, "Well, that's where Tyler is now."
He's, you know, he, he's probably landing there right now. Yeah. We'll, we'll hear the report at the next prayer meeting.
Darren Tyler: Well-
Mike Glenn: So we'll hear ...
Darren Tyler: we say that the easy places are taken.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Darren Tyler: And the hard ones are [00:01:00] the only ones left, so it turns out the hard ones- Mm-hmm ... are hard. So either we just wait until someone else does it, or we can go, so we just go.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, let's pick up in the middle of a story that I just heard the other day from a couple of friends of ours, uh, about the last family that you- your church bought out of slavery in Pakistan. Mm.
Darren Tyler: Yep.
Mike Glenn: Uh, in the brick factories.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And all of that, and now, now they're talking to you about quotas-
Darren Tyler: Yeah
Mike Glenn: that you can only buy so many out at a time. Yeah.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, so-
Mike Glenn: Because you're, you're, you're threatening the, the, the business model there with-
Darren Tyler: Yeah So most people don't know, and I wouldn't blame them because there's... I, I didn't know until about 10 years ago that there are more slaves alive today- Mm-hmm ... than in the entire history of the European slave trade.
Mm-hmm. Like, right now this morning. And it turns out you can do more than tweet about that. And so we've figured out a way inside, so [00:02:00] far only Pakistan, because it's codified in their laws-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: that you can purchase them out of slavery and they're free. Like, there's literally contracts with it.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And so we've set 15,000 slaves free so far, which turns out is starting to hurt-
Mike Glenn: The brick industry over there
the
Darren Tyler: brick industry.
Mike Glenn: There's a labor shortage- Yeah ... because of this church in Nashville.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, so that was a problem. So we've started a n- a new initiative, which is we've sourced machines that can make bricks.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: Which you think, "Well, why weren't they doing that to begin with?" The answer is, I don't know.
And we've done it a couple times now and it's worked, which is we basically exchange a brick machine that they don't have to feed. Right. They don't have to, you know, force whatever. And the one machine can make more bricks in a day than all of their slaves combined. So we started exchanging, and so far it's working, so we're gonna keep doing that.
We're gonna s- go back in [00:03:00] September with, I think, 10 more machines.
Mike Glenn: Okay. So you have modified... Uh, excuse us, we're picking up in mid-conversation here- Yes. ... but this is fascinating. Yeah. So, okay, you've co- uh, you have changed, grown from, "Gosh, this is wrong. Somebody should do something about this"-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: to, uh, getting on a plane and going- Yeah
over there and engaging, finding who you needed to talk to about what-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: coming back to the church and said, "It will cost us..." What, what was your first slave purchase? I mean, I, I- Yeah ... I wanna be careful with my language here. The first slave that you liberated, what was the cost? Yeah. Do you remember?
Darren Tyler: Yeah, liberated, purchased. I mean, they were purchasing their freedom, so.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Darren Tyler: Uh, the cost was $1,800, and it was a family of six-
Mike Glenn: Wow ...
Darren Tyler: that had been in slavery their whole lives.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And the way their laws work, if I'm a slave and my- and I die, my son inherits.
Mike Glenn: That's right, the s- the, the debt and the slavery and all of that.
Yeah.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. And every... [00:04:00] Of the 15,000 so far, 100% are there because of a medical emergency. It was like $150- Right ... and your wife is dying in childbirth. Right. You can't do anything, right? Mm-hmm. And so they don't... Hospitals in most developing nations, you pay cash or you c- they'll let you bleed out on the stairs.
Right. So they go... The only source of in- revenue there is to borrow money from a brick kiln owner. They're- it's like their version of a payday loan And there's no way they can pay it back. Right. So
Mike Glenn: the interest compounds too fast and-
Darren Tyler: Yeah. And then when they have to move on to the kiln, they are working 10, 12, 18-hour days, 100 degrees, and the system is rigged, so they're being billed for room and board.
Mm-hmm. They're being charged interest. Yeah. Before long, the debt- It's
Mike Glenn: the old company model here in the United States, right?
Darren Tyler: Yes. And the, uh, the only option is to buy their way out, but they can't, and they'll never be able to beat the system. So [00:05:00] we figured out that if someone walks in and pays their debt, 1,500, 1,800...
Average cost now for 15,000 was $400 each.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: Uh, some families have seven, some have two, but the average per person, 400 and some dollars. But the, you know, that old story, right, of the, the, we keep pulling drowning kids out of the river. We should f- go upstream and figure out- And find
Mike Glenn: out, yeah, how they're getting in the river.
Right.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, who's throwing them in.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And stop it there. And so, uh, Blake Thompson, who y- you know-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: and Eric Newberry, who's our missions pastor, actually was... They were in the UK at Parliament last fall. Like, Pakistan knows it's a problem, too.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: But their economy is, is, is propped up by it, and so they're working with Parliament in the UK now.
W- we've been working directly with the government, which is a huge change in the last five years.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: But on the ground level with the brick kilns, like, getting put out of business there, we're not gonna, probably not gonna get arrested, but there's a high probability of a hit being [00:06:00] put out on us 'cause, you know, you don't get between a man and his money, right?
Mm-hmm. And so this was a twofold, which is, one, to h- how do we get upriver, figure out why they're falling in to begin with? Mm-hmm. And then two you know, go with th- this is their human nature. The, the brick kiln owner needs to make a living, and so giving him the kiln-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: the, the brick machine, it, it... We haven't talked a lot about it 'cause I wanted to make sure it worked before we started- Right
shooting our mouth off. And f- what, January f- how many months? Six months in. Mm-hmm. It's working, so we're gonna do some more, and, you know, our goal- We
Mike Glenn: have, we have, we have, we have field tested this thing now- Yeah ... and it's working.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's all done with local pastors on the ground in Pakistan.
Mm. When a family is set free, uh, they don't know how to be f- free.
Mike Glenn: That's right, yeah.
Darren Tyler: And so we actually have churches made up of all brick kiln families with a Pakistani pastor that is helping them with [00:07:00] everything from their finances to their work- Yeah ... just how, how to be free.
Mike Glenn: Life skill, yeah.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, I
Mike Glenn: mean, it's- And, and now you got a generation teaching the next generation.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, yeah.
Mike Glenn: We've been free a year, so we're, now we're gonna teach you what we've learned- Yeah ... and all that, yeah.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, when Israel, like when they were in the desert, right, they had been slaves 400 years. Mm-hmm. They don't know how to be free, so God parks them in the desert, says, "Hey, don't, don't kill your neighbor.
Don't take your neighbor's stuff." Mm-hmm. "Don't have sex with your neighbor's wife." Like, uh-
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Here- Just- ... 10 Things I need you to remember.
Darren Tyler: Yeah ... yeah. Like, I, he, this is what it looks like to be free.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: You're not free to do whatever you want, but you're free to have the power to do what you ought.
Mm-hmm. And so that's discipleship with, again, with the local church- Mm ... that, that's doing it.
Mike Glenn: All right, let's go back. Uh, Darren Tyler is, uh, has, uh, is living in Nashville, living the dream. Uh, you're, you're- I'm still having a dream ... you're, you're eyeball deep. No, dream nightmare. You know, sometimes- Yeah, what is it depends on
sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, but you're, you're eyeball deep in the music business, uh, working with artists that we would all know.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, and, and all of that. Right? Uh, end up [00:08:00] going to Haiti.
Darren Tyler: Yep.
Mike Glenn: And saying, "Something's wrong."
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And then I, you know, uh, uh, the, the running joke I had with you is you started the church backwards.
Most everybody else starts a church- Yeah ... and then goes finds a mission-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: to, for the church to do.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and you found the mission and came back and said, "How can I help get people to pay for me- Yeah ... to go all over the world- ... like I do doing this mission work," right? Yeah.
Darren Tyler: Uh,
Mike Glenn: so, uh, and, uh, and that was the, the genesis of Conduit.
Darren Tyler: Yep.
Mike Glenn: Okay. So tell me about the name. Interesting name for a church.
Darren Tyler: Well, we didn't know it was a church. I would've come up with a way better name.
We were, we were do- uh, so I didn't even, I, I didn't even know I was doing mission work. I was just helping my friend.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And that was about as much thought as I put into it. Uh, I had a friend from Haiti, and [00:09:00] I was leading this little Bible study just on my own, but, you know, he, the, he needed help, so I got just enough hillbilly in me- Mm-hmm
that, you know, you help your friends.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And then I started harassing my friends here to help my friend there.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And I mean, we sort of, uh, had, had no aspirations of being a missionary. I just wanted to help my friends- Mm-hmm ... and then had my life, which was the music world. Which turned out to be convenient because I was able to harass a lot of my friends who, even just to do fundraisers for me.
Right, right. Stuff that, you know-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: to help, because it turns out it re- requires some revenues for it. So yeah, we started that in 2003 or '04, right after Aristide, the, the overthrow. Right. Mm-hmm. I was so dumb, I didn't know. I literally flew into, in the middle of a military coup.
Mike Glenn: I was trying to help.
That, that's not the last dumb thing you've flown into either. No,
Darren Tyler: no, there's been a lot more dumb... That was the [00:10:00] first one that I 100%... I was just completely surprised. Like, "Oh, probably should have checked the news." But, but it was good because I, I survived, right? Yeah. So I was like, "Oh, okay. Well, that should've been scarier than it was."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: But that was the genesis of even the hard places now, 'cause none of it felt as hard as almost, you know, getting shot at. Well, actually getting shot at, uh, in a military coup. Uh, a lot of the places now don't feel nearly as scary-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ...
Darren Tyler: as that.
Mike Glenn: The, the old baptism by fire, huh?
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Literally.
Darren Tyler: But, you know, a wise old missionary back then told me, I think this was about 2008.
I was on a plane to Africa, and he said, uh, "Son, you are immortal this side of heaven until God's done with you. So whether you're at home or-"
Mike Glenn: Yeah "...
Darren Tyler: Haiti, wherever-
Mike Glenn: Good word ...
Darren Tyler: so you might as well just go."
Mike Glenn: Yeah. '
Darren Tyler: Cause at least then if you go, you're-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: you're going out doing what God called you to do, instead of going out disobeying what He called you to do.
Mm-hmm. And that's, th- that literally has given me a lot of peace. Uh, it's weirdly enough, it's given my wife [00:11:00] way more peace. Uh, she has this gift of faith I wish I had.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Darren Tyler: Uh, f- for a while, I wondered, "Do you want me to go out? Is that what... You're just tired of me?" 'Cause I'm, I'm, I'm, I get a little whiny sometimes before I go and she's like, "Darren, if God called you to do this, then you're gonna go, and you're gonna do it, and you're gonna suck it up and..."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: At one point, I'm like, "You know that in a level four state department warned country, the life insurance doesn't actually work." That's right. We're, so if you're trying to get, you know, the money, that ain't gonna happen, so. But that, that gave her s- p- to this day, peace. Yeah. Like, she doesn't wake up at night worrying about me, uh, which is a gift for me, too.
Mm-hmm. 'Cause if she were worried, that would be really hard on me, too.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Okay. All right, so let, let's continue down- Okay, yes ... this, this, this road here. You got, you got Conduit, which started as a Bible study.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: When did it become a church?
Darren Tyler: 2010, Easter Sunday.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: Which I didn't know you weren't supposed to start a church on Easter.
I didn't really know anything. But we were [00:12:00] meeting at a little place in downtown Franklin. It was, uh, it was called The Listening Room back then.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And I would teach the Bible under a very extravagant beer menu. It was closed on Sunday nights, and he just gave me the key. And for the longest time, people were like, "Is that a church?"
I'm like, "No, no, no." "Are, are you a Bible, uh, Bible study?" "Yeah." "Are you a mission?" "Kind of, maybe." Mm-hmm. In fact, our- we had a MySpace page, and it said, "We're not a church. We just act like one." And that was-
Mike Glenn: Okay, these are your friends?
Darren Tyler: Yeah. Fam-
Mike Glenn: yeah.
Darren Tyler: Fr- friends. Uh, that was sort of born out of the idea that I was working with a lot of Christian music artists-
Mike Glenn: Right
Darren Tyler: who loved the Lord and didn't know the difference between Jonah and Noah.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Darren Tyler: And-
Mike Glenn: And because of their work schedule, didn't have a real connection with, with a body.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, 100%.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Darren Tyler: They're gone every Sunday.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, they're gone every Sunday.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, pastoring here, we all know.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And the idea of a Tuesday night Bible study in most churches, uh, usually doesn't work 'cause artists say they [00:13:00] want it, but then they get home, and what they really wanna do is l- you know, laundry-
Mike Glenn: Right.
Darren Tyler: Yeah ... and be with their kids. But there was just a lot of young... The seeker movement of the '80s and '90s bore the fruit of a lot of young men and women both who, again, loved the Lord and just didn't know the word-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: which was different from the generation of the '90s, right? Right. People we would know, like Michael W.-
Right, right ... they, they grew up in a world, Steven Curtis, like they knew the Bible, and so they at least had a foundation to build on. Mm-hmm. So, so I was just trying to address that problem, which was, here's who Jonah is. Here's who Noah... There was a boat in both, but totally different pl- you know, story.
Right.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Darren Tyler: And that was when we also started helping my friend in Haiti, and this little ragtag group of bass players and Starbucks baristas- Mm-hmm ... lots of, lots of plunging V-necks, uh, except for mine. And, and that was, that was as much thought as we put into it. Like, in fact, the word Conduit came because I was...
I realized that at [00:14:00] that point, all the money was literally people would just give me cash, and I would put it in my account and like Western Union it. Right. Right. And at some point, that's gonna- Yeah ... come up on my taxes. Yeah. So we started a 501[c][3], and I'm sitting down with the guy doing it. It was the first time I thought, "Crap, what are we gonna call this thing?"
I don't... And so I was like, "We're, you know, we're kinda like a, just a conduit of resources. I just, I, you know, I... We're the pipe in between. This is where the resources are, and this is where the need is- Okay ... and we're the in between." And, and the lawyer was like, "Well, why don't you just call it Conduit?" So we did
Mike Glenn: There you go
Darren Tyler: And when the church happened, when we, we jokingly say that I just, we basically admitted we were a church.
We started meeting on Sunday morning. Walk
Mike Glenn: like a duck, quack like a duck, you're a duck.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. So we started meeting on Sunday mornings and invited grownups. Mm-hmm. Those were basically the only two differences, uh, when the church started in 2010.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Tell me about the aha moment when you realized, hey, Conduit is different Uh, you know, [00:15:00] the, the, the joke I tell people when they ask me about Conduit, I said, "Don't go there unless you're willing to go there."
Darren Tyler: Oh. I'm gonna... Someone write that down.
Mike Glenn: Okay That was good.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, I'm
Mike Glenn: gonna- And they, and they say, "What do you mean?" I say, "Soon as you walk in, all the photographs are where all these people have gone."
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And if you sit there long enough, you're not gonna go to church, you're gonna go to wherever Darren's going.
So- Yeah, I'll drag you there ... my, my counsel to you is don't go there unless you wanna go there.
Darren Tyler: That's, that's actually really good advice.
Mike Glenn: So-
Darren Tyler: In the early days there was, uh, there was a guy that was... He was really struggling. And he's like, "I feel like the only way I could ever get coffee with you is if I go to Haiti or wherever."
Mm-hmm. I'm like, "Well, I'm leaving tomorrow. I'll buy your ticket if you wanna go." Yeah, that's right. "They got good coffee there." But the... But that... So when we built that new sanctuary, we had a, a really great church architect who had developed other churches, and all the drawings, like, "You're gonna walk- they're gonna walk in here, they'll see [00:16:00] your logo-" Yeah.
Yeah ... "and see your brand." Yeah,
Mike Glenn: yeah.
Darren Tyler: Sounded great, but I'm like, well, if they don't know where they are and they need a sign when they walk in the door, we got bigger problems. But-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: it's like our brand, quote-unquote, is our global mission. Right. So that's... You don't see our church logo when you walk in.
Mm-hmm. You see a wall of mission.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Darren Tyler: The, the... In case you're wondering what you're getting into, uh, this is it- Mm-hmm ... like, when you walk in the door, is we're not asking you to join our church, we're asking you to join our mission.
Mike Glenn: Oh.
Darren Tyler: And-
Mike Glenn: Break that down for me. Y-
Darren Tyler: yeah, so we... There- there's benefits of, of church mem- official church membership, right?
But we just felt like we're not asking you to join this club, we're asking you to join a, this, the mission that Jesus has called us all to.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And that just... So the Book of Acts- Mm-hmm ... chapters 1 through 15, Luke says they this, and they went there, and they did that. And then chapter [00:17:00] 16, for the very first time, uh, after the Macedonian call, he says, "And then we-
Mike Glenn: We
Darren Tyler: got into the boat."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And so we tell people, "You'll know you're a member here when you stop saying they and start saying we."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And if you want a certificate suitable for framing, we could ChatGPT one of those up for you. Mm-hmm. But that- that's how you know if it's we, we're doing this. And it's m- me too.
When I say we, I don't mean the staff, I mean we-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
Darren Tyler: are doing this. We get called to. Mm-hmm. It's, it's... And it's huge. It's a blessing. Jesus could literally make it rain sandwiches if he wanted to.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: But he lets us do that.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. You get to partner with him.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, how kind is that? And that's right. That he doesn't steal all the thunder for himself; he lets us be a part of that.
Mike Glenn: So tell me about the challenge of now you're the pastor of a church that just ended up b- being a church.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And now you have all of these [00:18:00] responsibilities and pastoral expectations, and the only thing you wanna do is the next mission
Darren Tyler: I struggled with that for a long time.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: Uh, and honestly, in some ways I still do.
Like, I feel like if the mission went away, I'd quit tomorrow. But the challenge is that, you know, when Jesus said to go into all the nations, the United States is a nation. Mm-hmm. So the challenge was that the church was not an interruption of my work.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: Which I treated it like that for a long time, almost resented.
Mike Glenn: It still leaks out in you every now and then.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, yeah, that, okay, I'm here Sunday. Yeah. You know? Now, now listen, I'm just, I'm messing with you 'cause, 'cause we're good friends, but I, but I know your story.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: My thing is, man, I'm getting to preach Sunday.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay, that's, that's my orientation. Well, okay, your thing, your thing is they've closed Africa, so I have to stay here and, and preach.
I have to minister, yeah. Now, I'm, I'm [00:19:00] exaggerating-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: uh, to, to, to make the point. But, but you know, that's kinda, that's kinda the funny things, uh, uh, uh, uh, about you.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Now, uh, we talk about the lack of discipleship and, and- Yeah ... and all of that. Your thing of discipleship is you've gotta learn this because you're leaving next week.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, sending.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna do this. So most churches say, "Hey, come, let's go to a bunch of classes, and then if you pass these classes, you'll graduate and we, we may let you go somewhere."
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Your thing is, "Hey, we're going to Haiti Friday. You need... Here's what you need to know before we take off."
Darren Tyler: Yeah. We absolutely use our trips as discipleship training. It's like discover, develop, deploy- Uh-huh ... are the three Ds. And we all know this inherently, right? Like, we [00:20:00] learn better when we're doing it than hearing it.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And we, and you see it in the life of Jesus.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: Okay, you're gonna go cast out demons.
You're gonna go do this. They come back the next day. "Well, that didn't work." "Well, here's why. Here..." You know, it's- Mm-hmm ... they were learning on the job.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. I tell people, "You can watch a video of how to change a tire, but you don't know how to change a tire till-
Darren Tyler: Exactly ...
Mike Glenn: you change a tire."
Darren Tyler: And I don't know about you, but I, I feel like I don't really learn, learn something until I'm actually teaching it.
Right. Mm-hmm. If that makes sense. And, and when it comes to the mission that Jesus called us to- The, the stuff that we're gonna learn, that, that's gonna land- Mm-hmm ... that we can grow old with. I don't... 52 sermons in a year, all due respect to our profession, cannot do for somebody what just a week and you've gone
Mike Glenn: through.
What, what a lived, what a lived experience- Yeah ... can do. Yeah.
Darren Tyler: And you end up... And s- I, I, I feel like the reason that God keeps sending me is I would [00:21:00] be insufferable i- if I wasn't constantly reminded that there are actually real problems-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
Darren Tyler: in the world.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And I have to be careful as a pastor because, you know this, if it's your crisis, it's, it's, it's real- Mm-hmm
to you.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And so, you know, I, I s- I think f- probably maybe even the first 10 years I'm, I, I don't feel good about this, but I would almost be like my grandfather. "Well, there's children starving in Africa." Yeah. "You don't wanna finish your piece."
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Well, yeah, when I was doing my hospital training, I was the chaplain on the cancer floor, so I would talk to, you know, teen- I was a youth minister at the time, and I'd be like, "You know, my boyfriend broke up with me," and I'm going, "What?"
Darren Tyler: Yeah. Yeah, how about a tracheotomy? Yeah,
Mike Glenn: that's
Darren Tyler: right. Yeah. Yeah. You want, you want a real problem? That's right, yeah, yeah. Just remove that- How about a
Mike Glenn: colostomy bag for the rest of your life? Yeah. There we go. The dude-
Darren Tyler: You know ... took his jaw out- Yeah, yeah ... you know. So, and there's some truth in that, by the way.
Like-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ...
Darren Tyler: helping someone frame what a real problem is, but I had to do it in a way that wasn't quite as condescending.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: [00:22:00] And at the same time, it's, it is good for me because it, it does remind me that even in the crush of... You know, it's, pastoring in Middle Tennessee is weird.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: Uh, wealth's just everywhere.
But, uh, it's helpful for me-
Mike Glenn: And a little Jesus veneer painted on everything.
Darren Tyler: A little bit, right?
Mike Glenn: Just a little Jesus veneer.
Darren Tyler: The most over-churched, under-gospelled city maybe on the planet.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Darren Tyler: But when I go, I'm reminded even, like, okay, I've got, we've got a pastor training for, in South Asia- For pastors who literally are signing up for getting beaten.
Mm-hmm. They're signing up being persecuted. So being around that kind of faith, uh, I, I just am so grateful for it. Yeah. Because I come back here, I'm like, okay, suck it up buttercup. You, you got a little bit of drama.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, I had a friend who, uh, flew to, uh, a [00:23:00] meeting point where the pastors from the communist countries had slipped out the back mountains- Yeah
and they met in this village, and he had flown and driven and ridden in the back, and you know, this awful travel thing. Gets there, teaches for an hour or two, and then takes a break, and the class just sits there.
Darren Tyler: Yes. Probably on the floor.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, and they're looking at him like-
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And so finally through the inter- the interpreter and all that, he says, "No, they expect you to teach for three solid days."
Darren Tyler: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: That's two. Yeah. So- And- ... the fact that you had a inconvenient, you know, you got bumped from, from you know, the aisle seat or whatever-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: doesn't compare to what they've- Right ... dealt with trying to get here for your training.
Darren Tyler: And by the way, that helps me even with teaching in America. Mm-hmm. My theology, like 2019 I was invited, my friend over there, we've got [00:24:00] a school in, uh, Bharatnagar, Nepal.
It's right on the border of India.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: Very persecuted area. And he asked us, asked me to teach on Revelation for three days, or four. And I was like, "What about like Philippians?" I want a fun one, you know? But you know, in America we, we, we look at Revelation and we're all debating whether, you know, is Condoleezza Rice the Antichrist- Right, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ... or, you know, we're all trying, you know, the, the little parlor games we play. But they read like the elder, uh, the martyrs crying out from under the throne, "How long, oh Lord, before you avenge us?" And they- And
Mike Glenn: they know those martyrs' names.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. And they read it quite literally. Right.
Like, because they're praying that prayer. Mm-hmm. "How long, oh Lord, before..." Mm-hmm. Like, how my wife has been beaten, my kids, you know, how long? Mm-hmm. That has helped me tremendously to bring that lens-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: to teaching here, here in America. Like w- we could get so caught up in the pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib.
They're, they're not having those debates. No,
Mike Glenn: uh-uh.
Darren Tyler: They [00:25:00] don't have time for those debates. Mm. They're trying to figure out how to stay alive long enough to fulfill the call of Jesus on their lives, and I, I for one need more of that in my life, and I feel like probably most pastors do.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah, we all do that.
Where, where did it go wrong in that-
Darren Tyler: Man.
Mike Glenn: Uh, uh, okay, okay, we're inside of the Garden of Eden, so let's yeah- Yeah ... let's, let's- Yeah ... let's move it up a little, uh, uh, for then. So that the church has now gone from a good church member, quote, good church member, attends regularly and gives. That's the only thing that we expect of them.
Show up twice, three times a month.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? Give regularly. It doesn't even have to be a tithe, just a regular gift that we can count on so we can do our [00:26:00] budget. Uh, now, and, and if you, and if you really love Jesus, then m- maybe you serve in the parking lot, maybe you're an usher. Yeah. Okay? But, but if you're a super saint, then you go on a mission trip, and those are for the ones who-
Darren Tyler: Special,
Mike Glenn: yeah
who are really un- anointed and all of that. Yeah. From, to the- Mm-hmm ... expectation of this is what everybody does.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Everybody is on mission. You should know your mission, and you should be-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: actively inviting- ... everybody you meet on your mission because, quote, "That's the most important thing in the world."
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? So if, if, if, if we're talking to somebody who has your calling for the homeless in Nashville, he's going to you going, "Why are you using airplane money on airplanes to Pakistan when we've got people right here-" Yeah, yeah ... "in the same..." So-
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So w- with that same passion-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: uh, and everything, what, what [00:27:00] happened, uh...
You know, my, my thing is, you, you know, from visiting the churches since I've stepped down from being lead pastor, most of the people I meet are bored out of their minds. Yeah.
Darren Tyler: I was one of them.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Darren Tyler: That's how I accidentally started my own church.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Okay. You weren't a member of my church when you were bored, were yous?
Darren Tyler: No, I wasn't allowed in there. Okay. I didn't, I didn't have a fleece vest. Brent wouldn't let me in.
I was s- I mean, my wife and I i- in all truthfulness, we're the kind of people that I w- I would love to have a church full of. We would ... We served in the kids- Mm-hmm ... ministry. We tithed. We, we sat in the front row, but that was mostly 'cause I got distracted too easy. Uh, yeah. So I'm in the front, I can't get too distracted.
But there's definitely a moment where I was looking around going, "Why are we doing this again?" Mm-hmm. Like, if Jesus- Right ... was crucified, buried, resurrected on the third day, like, he went to a lot of trouble just so I could go to church.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. [00:28:00]
Darren Tyler: And I was in the middle of one of the sermons, and I was bored, and so I was just reading a- a- and I found myself in Hebrews, uh, 10:24, right?
So 10:25 is the one that pastors like to use to, uh, to forsake not the assembling- Yeah ... of ourselves together. Don't, don't forsake the assembling. You know? B- But, but why? And the question is answered literally in the preceding verse. Uh, "When you come together, inspire one another to love, to good deeds, comma, forsaking not the
It's the same thought.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And so I'm, I'm walking out that day going, "Well, I'm not really inspired to do anything here." I felt, and this is unfair, by the way, but at that moment, I felt like I'm just investing like in my pastor's multi-level marketing-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: organization. Like it was we're, we're giving...
Like, I'm paying my light bill-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: when I tithe. And I, I just started asking those questions, "Why are we doing this?" And, [00:29:00] and you start looking at the early church, and there were no... There was no Compassion International. There was no World Vision. It was what the church was doing.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: So if we're all gonna come together, transformed people theoretically should be transforming their communities.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And that was sort of the crux of where we went to, that it's... Like, we don't even pass a bucket on Sunday. We don't do the little slide with the five simple ways to give- Mm-hmm ... and an offering sermonette. But we do have what we call a mission moment. Right. This is what happened with your generosity this week.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And that's all we do.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And when you look at 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 when-
Mike Glenn: Yeah, but you got that cool moment where you're standing up there with a brick going, "This is the last brick this family made."
Darren Tyler: That's, that is compelling. It is compelling.
Mike Glenn: Before they walked out as free people, right?
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
But that, that's it, right? Inspire- Yeah ... people. You could do this.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: You, you know, you [00:30:00] can be a part of this. And 2 Corinthians 8 and 9, that, you know, 2 Corinthians 8 and 9, God loves a cheerful giver. You know, the idea of standing up h- uh, at the front with me as a pastor, you know, "Everybody get your offering envelopes out."
Yeah, yeah. Like, why do we use envelopes? Get excited as opposed to, well, give them something to be excited about and-
Mike Glenn: Yeah, but it's not just money that the cheerful giver is. He's the giver of time.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Giver of resources- Yes, absolutely ... life. Da, da, da, res- Yeah ... or money is part of that, but it's following what I'm doing and everything, yes.
Yeah. It's, it's released- Yeah ... in that energy and all that, so.
Darren Tyler: It, it is, and I think from the pastor's perspective, the f- the fear is if I talk about too much of these other projects, whatever, that we won't have enough to-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ...
Darren Tyler: to pay the bills.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Darren Tyler: And I've got 16 years of anecdotal evidence that shows- Yeah
that just does not happen. Mm. Like, we have... Th- people have a heart for the local church that they give to the local church. They've got people that have a [00:31:00] heart for clean water in Africa, a Bible school in Nepal, drug addicts in Tennessee. So all we're doing is opening up another pocket, so to speak, that they were gonna give anyway or would want to.
Right. What we've figured out is that most people see the suffering in the world. They wanna do something about it. They don't know what to do- Don't know how ... so they don't do anything. Uh, and so we're just literally giving them, "Here's something you could do about this." Right. Like, I will never stand on the stage- To talk about a problem where there isn't a solution- Mm-hmm
that we know, which is there's a lot of problems that I don't know the solutions to, but the ones I do, and we, we, we language it the same way. If you feel like this is what the Lord is leading you to do, do it. If not, put your checkbook away. This is what the Lord is giving you a heart to do. But you ask where it went wrong, and I, I think if I understand your question correctly, it's, it's, uh...
And I'm about to speak in a very broad brush here, that there was some time [00:32:00] at some point where church planting became almost like starting, uh, like a, a Taco Bell.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: 150,000, here's what you need to do.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Darren Tyler: Uh, Nelson Searcy, launch big, all those things. But it became about growing the church-
Mike Glenn: Numbers
Darren Tyler: which becomes very inwardly focused.
Mike Glenn: Right. And how do, how do I increase attendance?
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Right? Buildings, budgets, and butts.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: That's what we, that's what we count. Yeah.
Darren Tyler: And those are real things. You need a budget, right? Mm. You need butts. Uh, you need a something to keep you from getting rained on. But if that's the focus of it-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
Darren Tyler: it's hard to get, it's hard to get excited about, but it's also... How, how do I say this? Jesus didn't have a building, you know, I suppose- Mm-hmm ... he had a budget, whatever. But you just start moving forward. So whether you have a church of 5 or 5,000, if the mission is the goal, like, [00:33:00] I mean, we, for four years, five, maybe five years, we, we had like 150, 200 people And I was weirdly okay with that because we were still-
Mike Glenn: Yeah
Darren Tyler: you know, someone told me once, "You guys are a small church, you just don't know it."
Mike Glenn: Right.
Darren Tyler: But all we were doing was just literally here was a, a need in front of us, people that wanted to do something. Well, then what will we do about it? Mm-hmm. And that inspired me- Yeah ... inspired people.
Mike Glenn: You know, the interesting thing and, uh, and one of the reasons that I in, in, follow you so much is in the, in the great commands, love God, love your neighbor, love yourself.
Go- he sets up a triangle, God, self, neighbor. Mm. Okay? The thing is you can't do one without doing the other. God initiates the relationship- Mm,
Darren Tyler: that's good ...
Mike Glenn: which then drives us back to discipleship 'cause I wanna know more. If you know more about God, sooner or later you're gonna find out he's on a mission-
Darren Tyler: Yeah
Mike Glenn: and you wanna join him in that mission. What we've [00:34:00] done in discipleship in, in the, in the church that, that, that I've grown up in, is we have sliced off the, the obedience part.
Darren Tyler: Mm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? So, "Hey, I want you to come to discipleship." You know immediately that's a, a two-hour class on Sunday night.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? But it's not about doing.
Now, the problem with that is when I come to church on Sunday, I have no reason to be there. Mm. So I'm looking at your music ministry going, "Bring worship to me. Do something." Yeah. "Make me feel something." I'm looking at you going-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ... "
Mike Glenn: Do something." And I, and I judge the worship service like, like a Russian Olympic judge.
And I, you know, and I told the congregation one time- Pulled up the scores ... yeah. I said, I said, "I really expected at the end of the service for you guys to hold up nine four-"
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: nine three and, and we'll, we'll see how we did." Rather than, I have to get to church because I have to tell these people what I saw God do on Thursday.
Yeah. And I want you to give me some framework to express what [00:35:00] I cannot express all by myself.
Darren Tyler: Mm.
Mike Glenn: I need you to sing with me 'cause I can't sing loudly enough by myself.
Darren Tyler: That's good. Someone write that
Mike Glenn: down. That was good. Now, now see what we've done is we've cut that off, so now I'm real smart about Jesus-
Darren Tyler: Yeah
Mike Glenn: you know, and I'm, and you know, at Jeopardy about Jesus- Uh-huh ... I can kill it.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, but now you're in a legalism.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Because now I gotta w- the only thing I have to determine whether or not you really know Jesus is how you use the words.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And rather than, "Oh, I've seen him out."
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know, there are people who in Haiti who now have a house-
Darren Tyler: Yeah
Mike Glenn: uh, be- because of this man's work and that kind of stuff. Now, the people who are going to Haiti and all that, come back going, "D- Darren, I gotta, I gotta do better."
Darren Tyler: Yeah. "
Mike Glenn: I can't go back and, and, and try to pray with a, a, a Nepalese Christian who is probably gonna face something that week."
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: When- I, I gotta know more.[00:36:00]
Darren Tyler: Yeah. One of, one win that comes to mind, and I've had so many of these- Uh, it was a family that wandered in, I wanna say 2017 or something Mm-hmm And they were visiting in the summer, which is pretty, it seems to be pretty common in Tennessee when you're looking at- Right ... when mad at your pastor, you go look at other churches 'cause he's, he's gone anyway.
Mm-hmm. And, uh, they visited for a few weeks in a row, and she told me later that one of the drives home they were joking, "The pastor doesn't even go to church here. Why should we?" You know, 'cause it was- ... summer's like mission time, you know? That's right,
Mike Glenn: yeah.
Darren Tyler: And she, uh, two years later, her, uh, her daughter had signed up to go to Africa with me, and her husband was supposed to go, but he had a work thing, so at the last minute she had to go.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And she didn't wanna go. And I think we were two or three days in and she pulled me aside, and I mean, just like that- Yeah ... ugly crying. "I am so [00:37:00] sorry. I, I used to get so mad when you were gone because you're my pastor."
Mike Glenn: Uh-huh. "
Darren Tyler: Why do I have to?" And she's like, "I understand now." And she leads our, she leads our groups now.
Mm-hmm. Like, she is the one that, uh... It was, a- again, I'm supposed to be in Africa right now. We had 43 people signed up and two trips back to back, and we... She organizes it all. Mm-hmm. The one that had... Godly woman. She loves Jesus, faithful church member, and it just, God had never awakened that possibility in her.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, to, to move her from join me on this work.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. And- She went from they to we ... we,
Mike Glenn: yeah
Darren Tyler: And quite literally we. And, uh, it's just one of the greatest joys is watching... 'Cause it's a joy I experienced myself. I went my first mission trip when I was 16 years old. I'd never been on a plane. I was, I mean, I was poor, poor.
And even watching God provide for that was part... We tell people that when you're going on a trip, if you're, you know, raising money- Mm-hmm ... the, the [00:38:00] trip doesn't start when the plane leaves. Right. It starts when you say yes, and watching God provide- Mm-hmm ... those for me. That's all part
Mike Glenn: of it, yeah.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. And so now I get to do that for others.
You know, it's literally one of my favorite things- Yeah ... is taking someone that's never been anywhere and watching in real time it become not just a concept. 'Cause y- we see pictures, but you can't smell a picture, right? Mm-hmm. You, you, you can't hug a picture. And now you have friends, and I mean, that, I think the secret sauce for us has been I'm not inviting you necessarily on a mission trip.
I just want you to meet my friends.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: You know, and you look at Paul's writings and you see, oh, it was, like, the same 10, 12 people for 40 years. Yeah. And, and when you read the words I, I, I hope to be there, I long to be with you by spring- Right ... I'm like, I read that so much differently, you know. And he didn't have texts or WhatsApp.
No, no, yeah. You know? So it was, it was even more painful for him to miss his friends.
Mike Glenn: [00:39:00] What keeps you up at night?
Darren Tyler: Oh, buddy. What keeps me up at night right now is the division in churches, jet streams of Christianity that seem to be taking us away from-
Mike Glenn: Mission ...
Darren Tyler: the mission itself.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Darren Tyler: Uh, I don't... You can edit this out, but when Charlie Kirk was murdered, it, it felt like 9/11 did 20 however many years ago, 27 years ago Because there was an entire generation, you know, I know that there are people that have different views of him, but there was a generation of young, especially men, who all of a sudden their entire world got blown up
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
Darren Tyler: And we've been, and still are by the way, f- between 15 and 20 people every week making first-time decisions for Jesus in middle Tennessee.
And at the same time all of a sudden online there's all [00:40:00] this division, it's this- Right So that has, uh, i- it's not necessarily the global stuff, it's the na- it's the nation stuff- Mm-hmm ... here that w- w- you know, we're busy being discipled by podcasters-
Mike Glenn: Right ... who have- You're discipled by whatever you pay attention to.
Darren Tyler: Right. And you got guys- In
Mike Glenn: middle Tennessee that's, that's the n- uh, broadcast news. Ca- cable news.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. And the world of long form podcasts, you've got men and women whose platforms are infinitely larger than their spiritual maturity.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Darren Tyler: You know, quoting scripture, uh, the, the completely out of context- Right
heretical. And I have to expe- I experience a lot of that in my inbox of course. But I'm noticing it, it's just there's a division that is, uh, uh, it's, it's based on s- lies and misinformation, all that, but it's like we have this mission. Like, people are still getting saved.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Darren Tyler: And-
Mike Glenn: Spirit's working anyway.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. Right. So that's, that has kept me up a lot at night. Literally I've, I've wa- literally last night I woke up again, 'cause it's [00:41:00] like how do we, uh ... Like for instance one of the work that we do right now is in Southern Israel on the Gaza-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: border, helping families whose lives were, I mean, massacred on October 7th, 2023.
Mm-hmm. And I know for a fact when I mention that on a Sunday, that what we're doing there, that I'm gonna get an email from somebody that just listened to some podcaster, you know, "Why are we helping those-
Mike Glenn: Uh, you know, you know ... the
Darren Tyler: evil Jews?" Right. And it's like that's, like that's new actually just in the last year, so I'm just- Mm-hmm
that's been really frustrating- Mm-hmm ... for me. And, and I'm frustrated in a way 'cause I don't know how to beat that. Like I don't know how to ... If someone's got a long drive and they're listening to a three-hour podcast-
Mike Glenn: Well, yeah, the way you, the way you do it is there's, there's no such thing as salvation by works.
There is assimilation by works.
Darren Tyler: Mm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? And the deal is- Yeah ... you and I, you and I may not like each other, but if [00:42:00] there is a fire in this building- Yeah ... you and I are gonna become best friends g- finding a way out of here.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So, yeah. Right? It
Darren Tyler: has a way of peeling away-
Mike Glenn: Of, yeah, yeah ... everything that doesn't matter.
Th- this is what matters.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: We, we gotta, we gotta get them baptized in that mission-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: and then that things happen. Okay. Flip side. What gets you up early in the morning?
Darren Tyler: I s- I'm still having fun Uh, a- and it's because-
Mike Glenn: All right. Well, okay. All right Yeah Okay. Just between you and me, what we have talked about is you going into Haiti after the earthquake.
Uh, we've talked about a, uh, a church on the border of Nepal and India where the Christians are being persecuted by, by the Hindus.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And people don't understand that, but the Hindus are very-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: uh, bitter toward Christians- Yep ... and, and, and stuff. Um, uh, a, a village on the border of Israel and [00:43:00] Gaza. Uh, a, a trip you couldn't make because of Ebola.
Uh, having your life threatened in Pakistan because you're upsetting the labor market in the brick industry.
Darren Tyler: Yeah
Mike Glenn: And you just told me you're having a lot of fun.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay. I've, I've had fun before. It, it didn't involve me-
Darren Tyler: I mean, in fairness- ... any, any of that ... in all fairness, yeah. That's true. You and I have had fun together that didn't involve any of that.
No,
Mike Glenn: it ev-
Darren Tyler: Here, John Eldredge's book Wild At Heart.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: I've read it a long time ago, and v- like a lot of dudes, it really resonated. Mm-hmm. Right? And his premise is that men especially are born with a need for risk- Mm-hmm ... adventure, and, a- a- and of course, you know, the way he frames it is, you know, go fly fishing, go hunting.
Mm-hmm. For good things. But how kind is it [00:44:00] that, A, Jesus made us that way, created us with that.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And then the very thing that the mission requires is what we already needed anyway.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Darren Tyler: Like, that's so kind.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: I've... I have a vivid memory, 'cause I grew up very poor, very sheltered, and, and weirdly very f- uh, fearful.
And I have a vivid memory of being on a motorcycle, West Africa, on the Burkina Faso border, Islam, uh-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: and it was this weird feeling of like, "I'm not afraid."
Mike Glenn: Mm. "
Darren Tyler: I'm having the time of my life." And it, it made no sense at all. Like, we were 14 hours from anywhere. Mm-hmm. But that was the realization. "Oh, because I'm finally living in a purpose."
Mike Glenn: Congruently.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a better word.
Mike Glenn: Congruently. Yeah.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. Like, the thing that God wired me to [00:45:00] need, a- a- and, and you see amazing things on the way. Right?
Mike Glenn: Well, you know, growing up, one of the highest compliments, and the day that you became a man was when your father needed you.
Darren Tyler: Mm.
Mike Glenn: When he came to you and said, "Hey, I need you to help me with this."
He didn't need you to help.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know? And in fact, you probably set him back an hour-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: trying to do that. Holding the flashlight, yeah. But now, but now you a part of the, of the project. Yeah. This is something that we did.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, we fixed that light bulb. Yeah. We fixed it. We fixed the car. And now Christ comes to us, and we're talking about mission da, da, da.
He says, "Now, come work with me. Come help me." Yeah. "Let me show..." And you get, you get to st-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: partner, to be part. He doesn't need you. But there's something about being there with him where you learn in ways that you could never-
Darren Tyler: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: learn anywhere else.
Darren Tyler: And it's exciting. Yeah. I mean, to be able to wake up, like I, I did, I woke [00:46:00] up this morning, and a brand-new crisis dropped in my lap.
Uh, the, the Nepali government is implementing some new something something- Mm ... and we gotta come up with like 40 grand, and- I, it just gets me excited 'cause I, we get a chance to help these people. We get a chance to invest in the futures of ... 'Cause our s- we have a s- a church planning school, but we also have an actual
The only Christian, recognized Christian school in the entire country of Nepal is ours, Conduit Medium English School. And I know that when I get that figured out, that those kids who have no other education options- Mm-hmm ... period. There's no pl- there's no plan B. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Darren Tyler: That they're gonna get to go to school tomorrow.
That they're, there's a future for them that they didn't have-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: [00:47:00] before, and it feels good because it's supposed to feel good. 2 Corinthians 9:8, right, "God loves a cheerful giver." Mm-hmm. Like some, whatever verse it was. Uh, like it's suppo- like literally, that He wired us to do that too. Mm-hmm. So that it's supposed to feel good.
Like, that's not a bad thing. But that's f- I guess fun is maybe a weird word, but it's, it is the right word. Like, it's, it's fun-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Darren Tyler: to get to be a part of God's mission on this planet. There, there are not fun things on the way.
Mike Glenn: Mm-mm.
Darren Tyler: Being arrested's not so much fun. Um
Mike Glenn: Yeah, but you know, like I told, I used to tell our church, I said, "Don't you wanna be the church that God trusts with hard things?"
Darren Tyler: Mm. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: That when God says, "Mm, this is gonna be tough. Oh, I got the church."
Darren Tyler: Yeah. "
Mike Glenn: I know exactly who I'm gonna give this to."
Darren Tyler: Yeah, so I've actually... I should have gone to your church. What was I doing? Uh, but that's, that's it, right? Yeah. Like, I... It's, what a privilege. Yeah. A [00:48:00] terrible privilege- Right ... that He's trusting us.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, to do that. Which is- Which is the, not hard. Not whether we can trust God, whether or not God can trust us in this moment.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Good with that.
Darren Tyler: And, you know, to that end, it's f- God gives us specific calling, specific hearts, whatever, for specific things. And not every church is gonna be a, a global mission, all global mission.
Mike Glenn: Mm-mm.
Darren Tyler: Because if everyone was that, then who would've built the special needs for Brentwood, you know? But
Mike Glenn: every church is going to be on mission. Y-
Darren Tyler: yes. There has to be, or
Mike Glenn: there
Darren Tyler: better be- There's
Mike Glenn: mission ...
Darren Tyler: a mission ...
Mike Glenn: mission. Right. May not be global- Yeah ... but it's mission. It's still just, just a mission.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, a bent towards action.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: You know? And that's something that you guys did so well- Mm ... at Brentwood Baptist. Like, that was... Y- you happen to be in the middle of one of the most prosperous areas in the c- maybe in the entire Southeast, but you guys, [00:49:00] whether it was the, the special needs ministry, the deaf ministry- Mm-hmm ... you guys acted when you saw a need.
Mm. And then invited people to be a part of serving the needs in the community. Oh,
Mike Glenn: yeah. Yeah, some of my best stories are out of that. That'll be another time.
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Darren Tyder, thank you for being here. Yes. Blessings on you and Conduit Church.
Darren Tyler: Man, thanks, Mike.
Mike Glenn: Next time you land at the airport, come on over.
We'll pick up the story again. Yeah, it's on
Darren Tyler: my, it's on my way home. Oh, right. Literally on my way home, so.
Mike Glenn: All right. We'll do that. Thanks for having me on.
Thanks for being here.
