Fatherhood That Leads | Matt Hammitt
Mike Glenn sits down with singer, songwriter, and speaker Matt Hammitt for a candid conversation about fatherhood, presence, and what it really means to lead at home. Matt shares the story behind his hit song “Lead Me,” the unexpected success that followed, and the moment he realized his calling as a husband and father required a different kind of decision. Together they explore the pressure many men feel to be perfect, the challenge of balancing calling and family, and why simply showing up matters more than getting everything right. It is an honest and encouraging conversation about faith, responsibility, and the quiet but powerful work of fatherhood.
Related Links
Matt Hammitt (website)
Sanctus Real (YouTube)
Lead Me song (YouTube)
Henry Cloud (website)
-
[00:00:00]
[00:00:05] Mike Glenn: Now,
[00:00:05] Mike Glenn: what are you doing now?
[00:00:06] Matt Hammitt: So I mostly am doing kind of a, a mix of speaking and singing kind of together.
[00:00:14] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:00:15] Matt Hammitt: It's, I didn't really pursue it, but this niche kind of evolved of me doing keynote. Uh, talks for, you know, a lot of nonprofit fundraisers.
[00:00:27] Mike Glenn: Right.
[00:00:28] Matt Hammitt: Um, also conferences or events. And then I'll bookend it with song and do, do a little, then weave some of those stories from the songs through whatever message I've prepared for them.
[00:00:38] Matt Hammitt: Mm-hmm. So it's all over the place, man. It's like, so this weekend I'll be doing something with, uh, the pro-life branch. Uh, our branch of pro-life ministry that serves, they're kind of competing in the Planned Parenthood space.
[00:00:53] Mike Glenn: Right.
[00:00:54] Matt Hammitt: Um, to try to, they actually created like a, well,
[00:00:56] Mike Glenn: I hope they're not competing with,
[00:00:57] Matt Hammitt: well, competing, yeah,
[00:00:59] Mike Glenn: yeah, yeah.
[00:00:59] Mike Glenn: Contrasting,
[00:00:59] Matt Hammitt: [00:01:00] yeah. They're, they're, they're competing for their audience. Uh, but their branding is very mainstream, but like their chatbots pro-life. Right. Right. You know, it's like, it's like all life affirming, but they do it in a way trying to get that plan, get people to them before Planned Parenthood to guide them Well, yeah.
[00:01:17] Matt Hammitt: To life affirming healthcare.
[00:01:19] Mike Glenn: That's what I tell churches, you know, you are 14, 15-year-old girl, you're pregnant. The only door that's open in town is Planned Parenthood.
[00:01:26] Matt Hammitt: Yep.
[00:01:26] Mike Glenn: You, we have to have something.
[00:01:28] Matt Hammitt: Yep. Yeah, and they a great job too. They're, they're the main organization saved the store because I've worked with 'em for like eight years.
[00:01:36] Matt Hammitt: Oh yeah. And a advocacy. They send me to conferences all over to speak for them. And then, um, I, I, I run their, I built their fatherhood program, so we built resources for dads and. Work with building resources for pregnancy centers
[00:01:53] Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
[00:01:53] Matt Hammitt: To have more for dads and, you know, there's some resources. But man, so much of what is, [00:02:00] uh, available at, you know, pregnancy centers, uh, for the dads
[00:02:07] Mike Glenn: is an, it's an afterthought.
[00:02:08] Matt Hammitt: Oh man. It's an afterthought war. Really, um, sterile.
[00:02:13] Mike Glenn: Yeah,
[00:02:13] Matt Hammitt: just like clinical, uh, or, or educational way that's like, feels like a, a handbook that is unappealing to them on any level, uh, to, to open or look at. So we've tried to build some things that are really visually appealing, uh, strong calls to their heart mm-hmm.
[00:02:31] Matt Hammitt: And who they are as a man.
[00:02:32] Mike Glenn: Man.
[00:02:32] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. So, you know,
[00:02:34] Mike Glenn: and this, this, this fatherhood. Um, idea is a big part of your story.
[00:02:41] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. Huge.
[00:02:43] Mike Glenn: And so you are where everybody wants to be. Doing what everybody wants to do. And it's not working.
[00:02:52] Matt Hammitt: Yeah, dude, it's, yeah, it's, it's tough man. It's, it's, it's interesting.
[00:02:59] Mike Glenn: That is the, that [00:03:00] is a bad disappointment though.
[00:03:01] Mike Glenn: It's when you are where you want it to be.
[00:03:04] Matt Hammitt: Yeah.
[00:03:04] Mike Glenn: And realize this, this isn't where I wanted to be at all.
[00:03:07] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. It is. The fatherhood space is hard. It's, it's tough, man. It's hard to get guys invested in things. Mm-hmm. You know, outside of their core interests or their. That, that are, it's man, I, I actually started a, um, a, a a, like a conference for guys.
[00:03:26] Matt Hammitt: Mm-hmm. A leaving men's conference, what it's called. Right. And man, it was so hard. I, I tried to keep it going. It was just so difficult. Right. And we had some very successful ones at different churches across the country, some that still go to this day that have thousands of men that come. That kind of launched out of the initial event that we did.
[00:03:41] Matt Hammitt: But I, it's just, I mean, man, you talk about a women's conference, like women are telling all their friends, they're all signing up. Right? They're registering. It's like packed out, sold out. Yeah. Guys, guys, it
[00:03:50] Mike Glenn: different. Yeah.
[00:03:51] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. It's like, guys, man, you just pull, it's actually the women pulling teeth. Yeah. To get the guys to go there, you know?
[00:03:57] Matt Hammitt: Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, we're trying to do our best to [00:04:00] five. I
[00:04:00] Mike Glenn: had a friend who wanted to write a book for me. I said, now here's the secret. You have to write a book that a woman would buy for her husband.
[00:04:09] Matt Hammitt: Yes, that's it. That is,
[00:04:11] Mike Glenn: that's it.
[00:04:12] Matt Hammitt: That is exactly
[00:04:13] Mike Glenn: right. 'cause the man's never in the bookstore. Yeah. He is never in a religious bookstore.
[00:04:17] Matt Hammitt: Oh, never.
[00:04:18] Mike Glenn: So what kind of title and. Yeah. And cover. Yeah. Do you have, so the wife will say, my husband will read this book.
[00:04:27] Matt Hammitt: Absolutely. Man. That's Has to, yeah, that's, that's, that's the way.
[00:04:31] Mike Glenn: So retell the story that is now kind of part of, uh, of the Matt Hammer, uh, yeah. Lore.
[00:04:38] Matt Hammitt: so, you know, I started out with my friends in high school, just, uh. In a band. Yeah, we were, we were a garage rock band and playing on the weekends together and then touring around Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, on the weekends, just, uh, loving, making music together and had no idea what it would evolve into.
[00:04:57] Matt Hammitt: Uh, and just a year or two after we [00:05:00] graduated high school, ended up signing with Sparrow Records and. Doing seven albums with Sparrow, and so it was 20 years that I was with Sanctus Real from 96 until 2016. But the peak of that, that. Uh, I guess experience for us, or I guess the peak of our success really was kind of around 2010 and, and that was really a, a moment for me that I thought it was defining our career as a band and it was in a lot of ways, but I had no idea that out of that it would be defining what I did really.
[00:05:43] Matt Hammitt: I think probably for the rest of my life. Mm-hmm. Um, and we talked about the fatherhood stuff, you know, kind of all blossomed out of that because, uh, probably 2008 or so, I came off the road, uh, from being out on a tour and. My wife, I, I walked through the [00:06:00] door and my wife said the words that every husband longs to hear from his wife.
[00:06:05] Matt Hammitt: She was like, uh, we need to talk. So I, you know, immediately just, okay,
[00:06:12] Mike Glenn: oh, you go, okay, I took you out the garbage.
[00:06:14] Matt Hammitt: You know what, yeah. What we gonna do here? And. She really had a, uh, a life changing conversation with me. At that time, we were in a cycle of pretty bad conflict in our marriage. Mm-hmm. I was in a pretty defensive moment personally, you know, a lot of wounds on both sides and, you know, it's kind of that feeling.
[00:06:36] Matt Hammitt: We were like, okay, well you, well you wanna talk? I got some things to talk about too. Right? Yeah.
[00:06:40] Mike Glenn: Right. Yeah.
[00:06:40] Matt Hammitt: That's kind of where you go mentally.
[00:06:42] Mike Glenn: Right.
[00:06:43] Matt Hammitt: And, um. But man, God only, God gave me the grace to kind of just shut up and listen and receive what she was trying to say to me. And she basically told me, it was like I was there, but I wasn't really there.
[00:06:58] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:59] Matt Hammitt: That [00:07:00] she was grateful that I was out providing. She was grateful that things with the band were grow, was growing and um, new opportunities, but. She was like, I need you to, to lead us spiritually, emotionally. I need you to be present. Uh, we just, we just need you to show up in a different kind of way.
[00:07:17] Matt Hammitt: And the guts of that conversation that day really hit me in a way that, uh, I wasn't expecting.
[00:07:28] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:29] Matt Hammitt: And the Lord
[00:07:31] Mike Glenn: began well, but she says it that way. And it kind of invites you into a new, new, new part of the relationship. Yeah. And not, and doesn't attack you or,
[00:07:39] Matt Hammitt: yes, I think that's what it was. Yeah. I think it was like we'd had so much conflict where it just felt like I just felt in ways attacked.
[00:07:47] Matt Hammitt: Right. Whether that that wasn't her heart. I think a lot of times too, when people are fight, when it seems like people are fighting against us. They're fighting for us, they just dunno how to do it. Right, right, right. Mm-hmm. They're fighting for the connection. Mm-hmm. And that day I do think [00:08:00] I, I didn't see anger or I didn't see mm-hmm.
[00:08:02] Matt Hammitt: What I would view as an attack. I saw just sincerity. I saw raw hurt and brokenness. Mm-hmm. That reached me.
[00:08:11] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:08:12] Matt Hammitt: And the gra out of the gravity of that moment, ended up writing the first draft of the song Lead Me. And I thought it was just a song for me. You know, it was like the cry of her heart.
[00:08:24] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:25] Matt Hammitt: The cry of a family and then the prayer of a husband to, for Wisdom.
[00:08:29] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:30] Matt Hammitt: And Peter York at Sparrow
[00:08:34] Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
[00:08:34] Matt Hammitt: Ended up hearing the demo, that song, and he was like. This has to be heard. I, I was trying to kind of keep it to myself. I mean, part of that song was about my failures, so I'm like, how exposed do I wanna be here?
[00:08:49] Matt Hammitt: You know? Um, but man, when we recorded that song and it came out in 2010, I had no idea the impact that that song was gonna have on people. [00:09:00] And the impact was gonna have on me. Because what ended up happening was for me was that the song I had written about being a more present husband and father ended up causing so much more success for the band.
[00:09:17] Matt Hammitt: By the way that it was reaching people.
[00:09:19] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:19] Matt Hammitt: That it took me away from home even more. And man, the Lord was, the Lord still had a lot of work to do on me.
[00:09:26] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:09:27] Matt Hammitt: And, um, through all that, uh, the, the, the twist and all that is through some of the pains of still having to learn and live the heart of that song myself.
[00:09:39] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:41] Matt Hammitt: The crowds of people singing that song back to me. Is what actually ended up calling me home. And in 2015, and I just knew, I just, I remember being every night on stage, just hearing, singing those words and hearing people sing those back. And I just thought, man, I [00:10:00] couldn't be a great front man for a band.
[00:10:03] Matt Hammitt: Mm-hmm. If I didn't show up on the stage.
[00:10:05] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:06] Matt Hammitt: How can I be a great husband and father if I don't show up at home?
[00:10:08] Mm-hmm.
[00:10:09] Matt Hammitt: And. And I had, I had been making efforts to figure that part out. Um, but I knew at that time it was, it was actually time to make a pivot.
[00:10:18] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:19] Matt Hammitt: And it was time to come home and spend more time at home with my family.
[00:10:24] Mike Glenn: You know, it's interesting. A lot of times when we found, find ourselves in this conversation with God, our first response is, how little can I do?
[00:10:35] Matt Hammitt: Yes,
[00:10:36] Mike Glenn: to be obedient. So, okay, I'll give, I'll give up this and I'll do this and I'll give up this un until there's this moment, and I've certainly had him in my life when it seems God puts his foot down and goes, no.
[00:10:47] Matt Hammitt: Yep.
[00:10:48] Mike Glenn: It's all, and it's now or it's never.
[00:10:52] Matt Hammitt: I couldn't have said it better.
[00:10:53] Mike Glenn: Yeah,
[00:10:54] Matt Hammitt: that's exactly right. I think, you know, I viewed it a little bit like [00:11:00] imagining Peter in the boat and, and you're like, you know, we're all kind of in that boat and Jesus says, walk out, right? And you're like, you can't imagine how you're gonna really put the, your full weight.
[00:11:10] Matt Hammitt: Into what seems so elusive or what seems so dangerous. Or not dangerous, but uncomfortable. Right. Yeah. The last thing, like you wanna put your toe out there and kind of get it in there and you feel the waves and the water, and you're like, yeah, I don't think I can really do this, but to actually step into it.
[00:11:26] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. And walk. I mean, it's just, it's just, it's, it's, yeah. The
[00:11:29] Mike Glenn: last thing Peter wanted to hear from Jesus, come.
[00:11:32] Matt Hammitt: Yeah, I, I can't imagine pulling the other foot out of the boat and putting your full weight into the water. Right. And walking,
[00:11:40] Mike Glenn: but, but, but, but in the same way. Yeah. Uh, uh, and you know, again, you know, you, you, you, the, the power of your story is that it is universal.
[00:11:49] Mike Glenn: This is, this is every man's deep, deep prayer. Uh, is, is to be a good husband and to be a good father and, and to be present and, and all of [00:12:00] a sudden you're on stage and you're doing what you love to do. And the Lord says, I will give you this.
[00:12:08] Matt Hammitt: Yeah.
[00:12:10] Mike Glenn: What you have always really wanted.
[00:12:13] Matt Hammitt: Yep. Yeah. It's, it is, uh, yeah, it's.
[00:12:19] Matt Hammitt: Interesting. Trying to find that balance Right. Of calling and I'm chasing the thing that I feel called to do. Yeah. But yet, in the midst of all that, to really hear what God's actually speaking to you, we, we, you know, there's so many constructs that come with it and so much of it. Mm-hmm. We construct for ourselves and trying to peel apart what parts we've constructed out of our own.
[00:12:41] Matt Hammitt: Ambition, um, can often be so challenging. And that was part of too, I think, you know, why in a lot of those years from writing that song and having that conversation with Sarah and trying to be a better husband and a better father, and trying to be more present, but still like living that life on the road.
[00:12:59] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. Can I [00:13:00] find this balance without making a hard decision?
[00:13:01] Mike Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:02] Matt Hammitt: Like you said, can I get my toe in the water a little bit? That's right. Yeah. Can I kind of do both? You know, and I think I just realized like, man, we'd built, I mean, gosh, you know how it is for any man that builds something at any time in their life and then this, this machine you've built has to eat.
[00:13:17] Matt Hammitt: You know, it's like,
[00:13:18] Mike Glenn: yeah.
[00:13:18] Matt Hammitt: So you've got 12. People on the bus, you're paying for the bus. Mm-hmm. You've got the crew, you've got mm-hmm. We have to do X amount of shows to,
[00:13:25] Mike Glenn: you have another family Yes. That you have to provide for just like your wife and kids.
[00:13:29] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. And they're all relying on you to do X amount of events a year.
[00:13:33] Matt Hammitt: Mm-hmm. Pay everybody. Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, I just realized like, I don't think there's a way without dismantling this thing, we've, I don't think there's even a way to do that. It's like,
[00:13:42] Mike Glenn: right.
[00:13:43] Matt Hammitt: I kind of had to. Just follow the call and step out, man, and, I don't, gosh, every step has been a, a miracle. I look back on that God has carried us and it's actually been kind of amazing what he's done because I was really worried when I left.
[00:13:59] Matt Hammitt: [00:14:00] What, Because I was a singer and I was the primary songwriter, and I thought, you know, what is this gonna do to the other guys? I ki I kinda remember this almost audible. Uh, voice. It wasn't audible, but you know what I mean. You feel it so tangibly. Right, right. In your spirit. Uh, when I was just praying like, Lord, what do the other guys do if I leave?
[00:14:19] Matt Hammitt: And I just remember him kind of saying to me like, oh, you, oh, you think you're like the, my only child I love, you know, like, oh, you're the chosen loved one that I'll take care of you, not other people. You know, it's like, and so I kind of had to to rest, rest, and it's been cool to see what they've done.
[00:14:36] Matt Hammitt: They've actually, they got a new singer and. They've gone on and things are different, but it, but, but it's been really beautiful to watch what God has done with them. It hurts your feet a little bit too, a little bit of times. You know, they've had a few successful moments from, I'm like, I wish I was there.
[00:14:49] Matt Hammitt: You know,
[00:14:50] Mike Glenn: I stepped down from Brentwood Baptist Church after 32 years and you know, they did fine.
[00:14:54] Matt Hammitt: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Totally. And so, but it's been cool to see that. [00:15:00] Two ministries have come outta one, you know? Yeah. And they've been able to keep going. And then the Lord's really allowed me to, to take this message, you know, of of, of lead me and kind of everything that's come from it.
[00:15:12] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:12] Matt Hammitt: Um, you know, everything I do isn't directly based on that, but it is based around the heart of family and being a husband and fatherhood and things that, um, surround all of all that heart. Yeah. You know, that heartbeat. So that's kind
[00:15:29] Mike Glenn: of what I like about the song. It's a song that guy can sing.
[00:15:32] Matt Hammitt: Yeah.
[00:15:33] Mike Glenn: You know, and you know, there, there aren't a whole lot of songs out there that guys can sing.
[00:15:38] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. '
[00:15:39] Mike Glenn: cause that's not the way we would talk to Jesus.
[00:15:41] Matt Hammitt: Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
[00:15:42] Mike Glenn: You know,
[00:15:43] Matt Hammitt: I didn't, never
[00:15:43] Mike Glenn: thought about it that way. I was, I was. Talking, telling a friend of mine he was talking about, I said, listen, I said, I want you to write a song that says, Jesus, I got you six.
[00:15:51] Matt Hammitt: Yeah, that's awesome.
[00:15:54] Mike Glenn: That shouldn't be too hard. A lot of things that rhyme with six. Totally. You ought to be able to do it.
[00:15:59] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. [00:16:00] I, you know that, that is interesting 'cause you're right. Yeah. It's hard to find songs that are, that have a ma kind of a masculine
[00:16:05] Mike Glenn: voice. In fact, some I will not. I will not sing.
[00:16:08] Mike Glenn: Yeah. Because that's just, but that's another podcast. We'll come back today. We're talking to Matt today and I, I wanna be good with his time.
[00:16:17] Matt Hammitt: No, totally.
[00:16:17] Mike Glenn: Um, what have you learned about fatherhood and, uh, and being present and, and all of those key words that we keep throwing around?
[00:16:27] Matt Hammitt: Yeah, man. I think f Well, I'll tell you what.
[00:16:32] Matt Hammitt: My daughter, who is gonna be 20. Coming up here in a couple months. She is, uh, just went off to Dallas, uh, to go to school and man, it's, uh, it's been tough.
[00:16:44] Mike Glenn: Kills you though.
[00:16:45] Matt Hammitt: Yeah, it does. It kills you. Watching our first, and I had the opportunity to lead worship with her Yeah. Before she left. Yeah. At our church.
[00:16:52] Mike Glenn: You, me, you, me to tell you something else. It'll, it, it'll kill you every time she goes back to school.
[00:16:57] Matt Hammitt: Oh, I bet, man. I bet. Oh, it's
[00:16:59] Mike Glenn: [00:17:00] ripping the, when she goes over and over goes, it'll kill you. When she goes, we back for Christmas, it'll kill you.
[00:17:04] Matt Hammitt: I'm not ready for it, man.
[00:17:06] Mike Glenn: Oh man. It just rips the scab off every three or four months.
[00:17:09] Mike Glenn: I'm
[00:17:09] Matt Hammitt: not ready for it. But it was interesting 'cause the guy was like, came up to her in front of me and said, you know. You've turned out to be a, an amazing young lady. Um, what did your parents do? And I got kind of scared because I'm like, oh no. I'm like, I don't know what she's gonna, I wasn't ready for this today.
[00:17:26] Matt Hammitt: What she gonna say? Like, I, I, I just didn't know what she'd say. Yeah. And it was really interesting. She said the best thing that my mom and dad did for me was not only to be available, but pursue the hard conversations all the way along. And, and I Wow. That I was like. She's like, I never felt like there wasn't something I could that, that we couldn't come to each other with.
[00:17:48] Matt Hammitt: Mm-hmm. Without shame or, you know, without fear. Um, and, and, and in that moment I was like, man, maybe, maybe that is, and we're talking about presence,
[00:17:59] Mike Glenn: right?
[00:17:59] Matt Hammitt: It's like, [00:18:00] man, maybe that is, or that it was cool to see that that was something that. Along the way. Mm-hmm. It meant so much to her and I think it does mean so much to the kids.
[00:18:09] Mike Glenn: And see that's my problem when people talk about quality time and quantity and all that stuff. Yeah. You can't plan quality time.
[00:18:14] Matt Hammitt: No. No.
[00:18:14] Mike Glenn: You don't ever know when, when one of your kids is gonna walk up to you and go, Hey, I've been thinking
[00:18:19] Matt Hammitt: yes.
[00:18:19] Mike Glenn: Or What do you think about? Or did you know this happened?
[00:18:23] Matt Hammitt: Yep.
[00:18:24] Matt Hammitt: Exactly.
[00:18:24] Mike Glenn: Boom, you're in it.
[00:18:25] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. It's those moments along the way. Mm-hmm. That you have to be in tune to what's happening. You know, even with just everything that's happened over the past week, um, you know, with, I mean, gosh, it started off with that horrific. Subway murder, you know? Right. And my kids saw the visuals of that.
[00:18:43] Matt Hammitt: I've got four kids, my youngest are 13 and 15. Um, and then they saw, ended up, I mean, all these kids, you know, it's like impossible. They don't even, my young boys, boys don't even have social media. And still they saw these videos of that and then they saw they assassination at Charlie Kirk. And then they saw the horrible [00:19:00] things that people are saying to each other online and all the heaviness going on.
[00:19:03] Matt Hammitt: And, and I could tell they were feeling it. And it's those moments where it's like. You know, I, I, I really felt impressed that I needed to ask them how they were doing and open that up and just in a car ride, you know? Mm-hmm. Just being able to like, let them pour out their heart. Not even me trying to necessarily, I mean, and I was able to teach them some lessons out of it naturally.
[00:19:23] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:23] Matt Hammitt: But, but just being willing to hear their heart and hear what they're just thinking about and how they're processing the hard things that are happening in the world and the things they see. And so, um, yeah, and like I said, you can't. Plan for those things. You just gotta be there in the moment and look for those opportunities.
[00:19:42] Matt Hammitt: So, and so what Emmy said that to that guy just made me, it just gave me such a relief, like, okay, we did something right, Lord. That's right. And maybe that was it.
[00:19:52] Mike Glenn: No, no.
[00:19:53] Matt Hammitt: Yeah.
[00:19:53] Mike Glenn: If you, if you have raised a, a, a, a young lady to the, to the age of 20, and she [00:20:00] is, as the friend pointed out, then you have. You, you get, you know, I told my boys one time, 'cause they, they had been over to a friend of ours who played for the Titans.
[00:20:10] Mike Glenn: Yeah. And he had a whole wall, full room full of trophies, you know. Yeah. From high school and college and all this. And they came home and they started yelling at me and making fun of me going, you don't have any trophies. You just, you know, daddy, you don't have any trophies. So finally I looked at 'em and I said, yeah, I have trophies.
[00:20:26] Matt Hammitt: Yeah.
[00:20:27] Mike Glenn: And they said, where? And I said's two of them.
[00:20:30] Matt Hammitt: Oh yeah, man, that's the stuff right there, man. That's the stuff. I love that. Yeah.
[00:20:34] Mike Glenn: Yeah. I got two trophies.
[00:20:36] Matt Hammitt: Yep.
[00:20:36] Mike Glenn: What do you wish more fathers knew?
[00:20:39] Matt Hammitt: Wow, man. I wish. I wish.
[00:20:41] Mike Glenn: Okay, now let, let, let's, let's, let's Sure, let's tighten it. Focus.
[00:20:44] Matt Hammitt: Yeah.
[00:20:45] Mike Glenn: Let, uh, listening to this is gonna be a pastor, a church leader who's going to have made the promise a hundred times.
[00:20:55] Mike Glenn: I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be a better father.
[00:20:58] Matt Hammitt: Yeah.
[00:20:58] Mike Glenn: And was for about two [00:21:00] weeks. And now they're hearing your story, they're feeling convicted and guilty. Angry.
[00:21:06] Matt Hammitt: Yep.
[00:21:07] Mike Glenn: And, and now they're going. I, I'm, I'm not gonna make another promise.
[00:21:12] Matt Hammitt: Yep. Yeah, it's, it, it's funny you asked that because some of the things that I've worked on with, um.
[00:21:22] Matt Hammitt: The fatherhood resources that I've built for, for nonprofit I work with, start with that question and the answer to it. Um, the question of am I enough will ever be enough? Uh, all the voices in our heads that mm-hmm. That remind us of every past mistake or thing we said or did that wasn't right or where we failed.
[00:21:42] Matt Hammitt: Um, we, we wear those things so heavy as men.
[00:21:46] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:46] Matt Hammitt: Um, we just, there, there's. We, we actually believe the lie that, you know, we've, we've gotta be. Reach some level of perfection to, to keep showing up. [00:22:00] Mm-hmm. Or to, to say we're a good dad or to say we're a good husband. We tend, tend to gravitate towards isolation and shame and the voices that speak lives to us.
[00:22:10] Matt Hammitt: And man, if there, you know, if, if you had to be perfect to show up and be a great dad, there would be no dads, you know? Right.
[00:22:17] Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:18] Matt Hammitt: It's, it's, we, we've, we've all. Uh, man, I think just the, I think, oh, Henry, it might've been Henry Cloud.
[00:22:28] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:28] Matt Hammitt: That has one of my, my favorite ideas. Then he is, he's used it in a few different areas about character and integrity.
[00:22:37] Matt Hammitt: Mm-hmm. But he talks about the ability to meet the demands of reality.
[00:22:41] Mike Glenn: Right. Yeah. We love Henry.
[00:22:43] Matt Hammitt: Yes, man. And to think of like, can I meet demands of, of reality, not only in the sense that I see a reality of something in my life or in me that needs to change and step up and change it, but can I also meet the demand of the reality that, that I'm not gonna get it always right.
[00:22:59] Mike Glenn: Right. [00:23:00]
[00:23:00] Matt Hammitt: And can I live, sit in that and live with that and, and still get up at the end of the day facing. Who I am or who I am not. Yeah. And still meet the, meet the, the reality of today and what's required.
[00:23:14] Mike Glenn: Well, you know, you can get in a
[00:23:15] Matt Hammitt: baseball,
[00:23:15] Mike Glenn: baseball hall of fame and strike out seven times out of 10.
[00:23:18] Matt Hammitt: Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So
[00:23:22] Mike Glenn: you, you don't have to be real good. I mean, just.
[00:23:25] Matt Hammitt: Uh, yeah, I think that you,
[00:23:26] Mike Glenn: and, and nobody remembers
[00:23:28] Matt Hammitt: totally.
[00:23:29] Mike Glenn: Nobody, nobody remembers that. And as you know, you talk to your kid and it's when you showed up.
[00:23:34] Matt Hammitt: That's right. That's exactly right. Yeah. You know,
[00:23:37] Mike Glenn: and
[00:23:37] Matt Hammitt: it's just showing up again and again and again.
[00:23:40] Matt Hammitt: And I think, yeah, a lot of guys just need to, to, to be assured that like. No, dad is perfect, man. We're all making mistakes. We're all on this journey. Yeah. Together. Uh, welcome to the, to the club. You know? And yeah, I think it is, you're right that it is easy when we're talking about our, our highlight reels, [00:24:00] right.
[00:24:00] Matt Hammitt: Of the things that you know, oh, well, I stepped away and went to be with my family and you know, you got this guy's wife nudging his, his ribs saying, well, this guy, look at this guy, dad. You know? Yeah. Yeah. What are you doing? You know, in those moments, you know, how do we assure guys like, oh, no, no, no, you're, listen, you're seeing my highlight reel.
[00:24:18] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:24:19] Matt Hammitt: You know, I have plenty of lowlight reels. Well,
[00:24:21] Mike Glenn: when I tell people, wisdom means I screwed up for You did.
[00:24:24] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:27] Mike Glenn: That's always mean. I got that scar when I did. What about to do? Yeah,
[00:24:32] Matt Hammitt: yeah, yeah, man. And I mean, biblically, right? Like the willingness to, well, two things. Uh, just community, you know, it's like, man, just so many guys who are trying to do it.
[00:24:44] Matt Hammitt: Oh, yeah. Alone.
[00:24:45] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:24:45] Matt Hammitt: Like being willing to step into community, you know, and, and when we. Share our weaknesses. I mean, it's biblical, right? Like when we share our failures, we share weaknesses, even share our sins, that's where we [00:25:00] are healed. There is no, there is no success heal. That's success from
[00:25:01] Marlboro.
[00:25:02] Mike Glenn: Man is
[00:25:02] Matt Hammitt: heal. Yeah. That
[00:25:03] Mike Glenn: there is no, that's right. Yeah. There, there there's not, I mean, ev everybody e even when you read the biographies of, of, of great business leaders or whatever, nine times out of 10 they had a team
[00:25:14] Matt Hammitt: Yes.
[00:25:15] Mike Glenn: That they trusted.
[00:25:16] Matt Hammitt: Yep.
[00:25:17] Mike Glenn: And when they got this big promotion this big, they went and got cherry pick these, these people to be on their team.
[00:25:23] Matt Hammitt: Yeah.
[00:25:24] Mike Glenn: And uh, and, and that's the way it always worked.
[00:25:27] Matt Hammitt: Yeah.
[00:25:27] Mike Glenn: And, and I tell, I tell people one, if, if you don't have a, a, a, a, a group of guys in your who will laugh at your stuff.
[00:25:36] Matt Hammitt: Yep.
[00:25:38] Mike Glenn: And, uh, and hold. And hold you accountable. And the best sense
[00:25:43] Matt Hammitt: Yes.
[00:25:44] Mike Glenn: Of, of that and that who will look at you and go, Matt, we have known you for a long time, that behavior's not you.
[00:25:51] Matt Hammitt: Yep. So good,
[00:25:53] Mike Glenn: man. So, so tell us why you didn't trust yourself.
[00:25:56] Matt Hammitt: Yep.
[00:25:57] Mike Glenn: Why you didn't trust who God created you to be. [00:26:00]
[00:26:00] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. I think yeah. That Godly community, um, I know you've experienced it. Yeah. I've experienced it. We all, we've, I'm sure we both also had seasons of our lives where we haven't had, had, had as much as we've wished for.
[00:26:12] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. Leadership especially can be lonely at times. Mm-hmm. But, you know, I'm in a season of my life. Right now where I, I have so many good, godly, honest men.
[00:26:25] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:26] Matt Hammitt: Will, you know, love me through whatever, and not be afraid to speak truth. Yeah. And just be there as a friend. And I think, man, my heart really does real for, for men who do not have community.
[00:26:38] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:26:38] Matt Hammitt: And, and you know, I think a lot of times it takes work to have community. Right. If you wanna have good friends, you gotta be a good friend.
[00:26:44] Mike Glenn: You ain't gonna make the effort. Yep. You gotta, you know, it doesn't happen.
[00:26:47] Matt Hammitt: And it takes time.
[00:26:48] Mike Glenn: You know the difference between a good friend and your best friend.
[00:26:51] Matt Hammitt: I, I, I'm excited to know what you're gonna say.
[00:26:53] Mike Glenn: Okay. A good friend will come throw you bail.
[00:26:56] Matt Hammitt: Yep.
[00:26:57] Mike Glenn: Your best friend sitting next to you in jail going, I don't know [00:27:00] how we're going get out this one.
[00:27:02] Matt Hammitt: I, I like that. I'm gonna have to steal that one.
[00:27:05] Mike Glenn: That's right.
[00:27:06] Matt Hammitt: That's good.
[00:27:08] Mike Glenn: So what's the future for Matt?
[00:27:09] Matt Hammitt: Yeah.
[00:27:09] Matt Hammitt: So, uh, over the past few years, uh, a lot of speaking has blossomed. You know, I've, mm-hmm. I talked to you before we started, uh, just doing kind of this mix of story, song and keynote. Mm-hmm. And it's kind of become an interesting. Mix of things that I, I hadn't imagined. It's funny though, too, because I also become kind of a Swiss Army knife.
[00:27:33] Matt Hammitt: I say like, what do you need from me? You know, like, you need worship, you need a keynote, you need devotion. Right. You need a concert. You need, you don't go to
[00:27:41] the
[00:27:41] Mike Glenn: World Series on one pitch. That's
[00:27:42] Matt Hammitt: right. Exactly. You gotta
[00:27:43] Mike Glenn: throw 'em off.
[00:27:44] Matt Hammitt: So I, I get asked to do a variety of things, you know, and. But primarily it is a lot a a lot of, uh, uh, speaking at events and then, um, some concerts kind of mixed in.
[00:27:55] Matt Hammitt: Mm-hmm. But I recently just this past year signed, uh, a new publishing deal [00:28:00] with and artist deal, so it's kind of both sides. Mm-hmm. So I'm writing for, uh, Toby McKeen. Label and publishing group emac on the writing side, writing for other artists.
[00:28:10] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:10] Matt Hammitt: And then Goatee Records sign me as an artist as well.
[00:28:13] Mike Glenn: Cool.
[00:28:14] Matt Hammitt: So kind of doing a mix of Yeah. Being out there speaking at events.
[00:28:18] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:28:18] Matt Hammitt: Doing some singing at events, and then releasing music with goatee. Yeah. Can we
[00:28:20] Mike Glenn: get night tickets?
[00:28:21] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, man. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You don't, yeah, you, yeah. I was gonna make a joke, but
[00:28:30] Mike Glenn: we won't do it. We'll leave it with a joke that you never heard.
[00:28:34] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:28:35] Mike Glenn: This, this is Matt. How I'm
[00:28:37] Matt Hammitt: just gonna be self subed. Good
[00:28:38] Mike Glenn: stuff. How can people find you? That's your website.
[00:28:40] Matt Hammitt: Yeah. So, um, people can just find me typically at Matt, well, matt hamit.com. Mm-hmm. I'm also just on Instagram and Facebook just at Matt Hamit.
[00:28:49] Mike Glenn: All the, all the places were books
[00:28:51] Matt Hammitt: usually sell all the places.
[00:28:52] Matt Hammitt: Yeah, that's right. And I do have a book as well called Lead Me, um, which kind of unpacks all the [00:29:00] stories from that time and what so cool. The nitty gritty of what God was doing through all
[00:29:03] Mike Glenn: it. So cool. So good stuff. Matt Ham, I'm Mike Glen, this is the Engaged Church Network podcast. Thanks for being.
[00:29:15] Mike Glenn: Thanks for tuning into the Engaged Church Network Podcast. We exist to train healthy and skilled leaders for congregations throughout Middle Tennessee. If today's episode helped you share it with a fellow leader and don't forget to visit engage church network.com for more ways to grow.
