From Problem to Project: How to Convene for Community Change | Palmer Williams
What do you do when you see a problem in your city? In this episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast, Mike Glenn sits down with Palmer Williams—attorney, founder of The King’s Academy, and a natural convener—to explore how ordinary believers can move from concern to action. From her childhood spinal cord injury to her work with vulnerable children and launching a socioeconomically diverse Christian school in Nashville, Palmer shares how proximity to real needs transforms compassion into leadership. This conversation challenges churches to move beyond sitting in pews and instead gather people, build partnerships, and step into the hard, holy work of community change.
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[00:00:06] Mike Glenn: So what do you want to talk about? Oh man. Okay. Here, here it is. Yeah. What do you wanna talk about? No, uh, because one you have had a fascinating career. You are you run around some, some of the most influential circles in the state of Tennessee.
[00:00:25] Mike Glenn: Hmm. I mean, I'm at the prayer breakfast You did?
[00:00:28] Palmer Williams: Oh, yeah.
[00:00:28] Mike Glenn: And, uh, and we're sitting there a bunch of us. Somebody said, how did you get invited? I don't know. Palmer called and I'm here. We're glad you're here. So, so it's like, and everybody Yeah, me too, man. I got the same message. So, so this, so, so this ability, you have to convene to get people's attention.
[00:00:47] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. You started a school.
[00:00:48] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:00:50] Mike Glenn: Uh, and see one of, one of the drivers here is that, we believe the first reformation gave the Bible back to the people.
[00:00:57] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:00:58] Mike Glenn: The second reformation that we're [00:01:00] in now is giving ministry back to the people. Mm. Okay.
[00:01:04] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:01:04] Mike Glenn: So, so church members I, that Christ followers are seeing community problems and then stepping in to solve them.
[00:01:13] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:01:13] Mike Glenn: Just
[00:01:14] Speaker 4: being the church.
[00:01:14] Mike Glenn: Just being the church.
[00:01:16] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:01:16] Mike Glenn: Okay.
[00:01:17] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:17] Mike Glenn: You have done that. 1, 2, 3, how many different times? With that. Mm. So I, I would, I would love to, to get, for, for, for you and me to talk about what, what does it mean for you
[00:01:34] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:01:35] Mike Glenn: To be sitting somewhere and go. That's a problem.
[00:01:39] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:40] Mike Glenn: Why doesn't somebody do that? Something about that and then realize, well, if I make a few phone calls, if I get this meeting together, we can at least move the ball.
[00:01:48] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:01:49] Mike Glenn: I mean, with the, with the adoption issue that is important to both of us.
[00:01:53] Palmer Williams: I just came from Show Hope.
[00:01:55] Mike Glenn: Oh, did you?
[00:01:55] Palmer Williams: Yeah. Cool. I had a, a meeting there for the last three hours,
[00:01:59] Mike Glenn: so, [00:02:00] um, you know, we had, we had the incidents where the children were sleeping in the DCS offices. Yeah. And, and no homes and this kind of thing. And, and, and, and the problem is not as easy as you think. Mm-hmm. I mean, because everybody has this adoption picture of this little Norman walk rail child, you know, bon hair and blue-eyed and all that.
[00:02:20] Mike Glenn: And, and, and, and some of these kids are, are. Hurting and angry and bitter and, and wounded and will burn your house down if you bring them home. I mean, I'm not exaggerating
[00:02:32] Palmer Williams: with that. It's like trench work.
[00:02:33] Mike Glenn: Yeah, that's
[00:02:33] Palmer Williams: what don't always call
[00:02:34] Mike Glenn: it. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:35] Palmer Williams: You're in the trenches. You're in the hard
[00:02:37] Mike Glenn: Yeah. The hard work.
[00:02:38] Mike Glenn: Uh, but we were able to convene them a meeting with the governor and, uh, and, uh, and Margie at DCS
[00:02:45] Palmer Williams: Love Margie.
[00:02:46] Mike Glenn: Uh, I want, I do too.
[00:02:48] Palmer Williams: So she is my aunt's best friend. So my aunt was the highest ranking female, TBI officer in the state of Tennessee. Margie, she trained Margie.
[00:02:57] Mike Glenn: Oh, God.
[00:02:58] Palmer Williams: So I've known Margie forever.
[00:02:59] Palmer Williams: Yeah. [00:03:00] From an, you know, knocking down doors stories.
[00:03:02] Mike Glenn: Yeah. We left that meeting and one of, one of my pastor friends said, I think I intimidated Margie. And I looked at him, I said, you do know she's armed.
[00:03:09] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:10] Mike Glenn: Yeah. I don't think I would like to meet the person that intimidated, I don't think when she gets up and does her threat radar.
[00:03:17] Mike Glenn: I, I don't think you came up on there, but, so yeah. So no. That's amazing.
[00:03:25] Mike Glenn: Such as egos now. Yeah. Uh, yeah.
[00:03:27] Palmer Williams: I'd love to
[00:03:28] Mike Glenn: talk about all that. You have been, you have been a Christ follower all your life.
[00:03:32] Palmer Williams: Yeah. Yes, I have been. You know, it's interesting. I, I feel like I don't have a glamorous conversion story, but this story of Christ following me through. Hits has been a theme
[00:03:46] Mike Glenn: in my life.
[00:03:47] Mike Glenn: No, but you got, you got, uh, as, as, as the old preachers would say, you got a strong testimony.
[00:03:52] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:03:52] Mike Glenn: The car accident,
[00:03:54] Palmer Williams: it's been faithful. Mm-hmm.
[00:03:56] Mike Glenn: Uh, yeah. Having, having to, having to [00:04:00] adjust your life, that it's gonna be very, very different than you thought it would be.
[00:04:02] Palmer Williams: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My, I'm happy to share any of my testimony and, and to talk about kind of what that.
[00:04:11] Palmer Williams: How that shaped why my life has looked the way it has.
[00:04:16] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:04:16] Palmer Williams: Just the gratitude that I have for
[00:04:18] Mike Glenn: even that. So how old were you when the, when the accident happened?
[00:04:20] Palmer Williams: Yeah, so I was eight years old. It was actually, we were living, my family's from Nashville. Mm-hmm. We were living outside of Nashville at the time, but we were, we were here visiting grandparents on spring break, and it was a freak.
[00:04:33] Palmer Williams: My mom sneezed, our car went off the. Road and we hit a bridge. It was no one's fault. It was just happened.
[00:04:42] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:04:42] Palmer Williams: But I was instantly paralyzed. So I've had a spinal cord injury since I was eight.
[00:04:47] Mike Glenn: Were you in the backseat? And
[00:04:48] Palmer Williams: I was, yeah. And you know, good old nineties car, just lap belt. Yeah. And no booster.
[00:04:54] Palmer Williams: And I was a tiny little, little thing. And yeah. And so I think since [00:05:00] that time. I always say my family has always stood with Jesus, but it was that that kind of made us start walking with him.
[00:05:10] Mike Glenn: Ah.
[00:05:11] Palmer Williams: And I can, I can see like a marked difference of, I always went to church, Sunday School every
[00:05:15] Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
[00:05:16] Palmer Williams: Sunday. My dad's a professional golfer and so Sunday was really interesting for us 'cause he had to work on Sundays.
[00:05:22] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:22] Palmer Williams: And so my mom would take us to church and he would do church later.
[00:05:25] Mike Glenn: So that's where your son gets it from. So, genetic thing. Huh? That's
[00:05:29] Palmer Williams: genetic.
[00:05:29] Mike Glenn: See, that's when I, I needed a grandfather who was a professional guy and my game would be better.
[00:05:35] Palmer Williams: Oh man. Well, he is. He is my dad made over the same intensity and I probably carry a little bit. I was, before I was injured, I was a competitive gymnast and had that similar intensity and focus. So it's really fun to watch him kinda. So what
[00:05:49] Mike Glenn: happens when you're eight and you realize you're gonna be in a wheelchair the rest of your life?
[00:05:53] Palmer Williams: You know, I think I borrowed my parents' faith. And what I mean by that is I [00:06:00] saw them take to their knees and I never once saw them ask. Why us? Why me? But just instantly, I had a mama who she was, all right, hard things happen.
[00:06:14] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:14] Palmer Williams: That's life. We're gonna continue on. Mm-hmm. The Lord's called you to things.
[00:06:17] Palmer Williams: And I distinctly remember when I got home from the hospital after being in the hospital for, I don't know, six to nine months. Right. There I got home and there was a list of chores on my bed. The same list I'd always had. My mom was very into chores and every Saturday morning she put a list of chores and I got home and there's a list of chores in my bed and she's gone.
[00:06:37] Mike Glenn: Off you went, huh?
[00:06:38] Palmer Williams: And um, and you know, they were hard. I had to, I had to figure out how this new body and how to do these things. Yeah. But I think, and what I found out later, many years later, 20 years later, was my mom was upstairs crying. Saying, how was my daughter watching
[00:06:54] Mike Glenn: you to do that? Huh?
[00:06:55] Palmer Williams: Do this.
[00:06:56] Mike Glenn: Oh gosh.
[00:06:56] Palmer Williams: But to me it was an instant, okay, you still have [00:07:00] responsibilities in this family. We're gonna figure out a different way to do it. Yeah.
[00:07:03] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:07:03] Palmer Williams: So there was never a
moment
[00:07:04] Mike Glenn: and imposed, imposed a new normal on you.
[00:07:06] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:07:06] Mike Glenn: Gosh, what a gift.
[00:07:07] Palmer Williams: And Yeah. And never a moment of God. And I really do think it was divine because I think our spirit, anytime hard things like that happen are inclined to say why.
[00:07:18] Palmer Williams: Right. You know, anger, all of those emotions in that. Is understandable, but I think they instilled in this, we're not promised these things. Mm-hmm. Um, but we are promised his presence and his goodness, and we're gonna look for that.
[00:07:31] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:32] Palmer Williams: And so yeah, I mean, I, from the very beginning, my parents modeled what it looked like to trust God in the really hard.
[00:07:39] Palmer Williams: And so there was never a sense of why me? Or this is too hard, or, you know but I don't think that was me. I think it was. The Holy Spirit and Yeah, sure. And my parents really strong faith.
[00:07:51] Mike Glenn: So you end up, uh, going to law school.
[00:07:54] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:54] Mike Glenn: Now where'd you go to law school?
[00:07:55] Palmer Williams: Yeah, I went to Vanderbilt.
[00:07:56] Mike Glenn: Vanderbilt,
[00:07:57] Palmer Williams: yeah. But before law school, and this is [00:08:00] kind of integral to my journey I was at Vanderbilt undergrad. I had a scholarship that was community service based.
[00:08:06] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:07] Palmer Williams: And, um, it allowed you to create a service project anywhere in the world and go and implement that during the summer. So two summers of college I got to spend in rural Africa working with kiddos with HIV I was so naive.
[00:08:21] Palmer Williams: I literally googled Christian orphanages in Africa because I had never been before and thought it would be an adventure. And the Lord always kind of meets our naivety with his grace and kindness, you know? Um, and he did that for me. And so just kind of fell in love with the culture and the community.
[00:08:42] Palmer Williams: And
[00:08:42] Mike Glenn: where, where at?
[00:08:43] Palmer Williams: I was in rural South Africa and Mozambique. Mm-hmm.
[00:08:46] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:46] Palmer Williams: And was working with local. It didn't go through an agency or admissions group, just was working with local Christians.
[00:08:53] Mike Glenn: Okay. Let me ask you a question.
[00:08:55] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:08:55] Mike Glenn: How did that work with you in a wheelchair?
[00:08:57] Palmer Williams: Yeah, so, well, the fir that's a really good [00:09:00] question, and I'm sure they were asking that question too when I showed up.
[00:09:03] Palmer Williams: So what
[00:09:04] Mike Glenn: would send to somebody,
[00:09:05] Palmer Williams: Uhhuh,
[00:09:05] Mike Glenn: don't send
[00:09:05] Palmer Williams: to
[00:09:05] Mike Glenn: somebody
[00:09:06] Palmer Williams: in a wheelchair, actually send us it was interesting. So the first time I went, I went with four, three other friends two guys from the program and, and then my best friend Annie.
[00:09:16] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:16] Palmer Williams: And, um. That was great because we had two strong boys that if I got stuck in the mud mm-hmm.
[00:09:22] Palmer Williams: They could pick my chair up and carry me. And so I knew, I, I wasn't worried at that point. I'm like, I've got strong friends. Mm-hmm. And we, I'd traveled a lot with my family, so I knew I could do it. But then, so when I, I woke up one morning my senior year of college and at Vanderbilt, everyone's very type A.
[00:09:38] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm. You have your life plan. Mm-hmm. You execute your life plan, you know? Mm-hmm. And I was planning to go straight to law school. And I woke up one morning in April and then had a dream and felt very clear that the Lord was calling me back to Africa. Like just I don't think I've had a dream like that since.
[00:09:53] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm. Like I knew he was calling me back and so I scrapped my plans and went back to Africa by myself. And [00:10:00] that time I did not tell him I was in a wheelchair because there's a lot of one I knew I could do it because everything's. One story in the rural area. So
[00:10:07] Speaker 4: like,
[00:10:08] Palmer Williams: I'm not gonna encounter steps.
[00:10:09] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm. I may encounter some sand, some snakes but I knew I could do it. But I also know there's a stigma because they don't have the infrastructure to care for people with disabilities. It is, it is a very strange thing.
[00:10:21] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:10:21] Palmer Williams: Um, just from lack of exposure.
[00:10:23] Mike Glenn: Right.
[00:10:24] Palmer Williams: And so, yeah, I just rolled up. Rolled up.
[00:10:27] Palmer Williams: They were probably a little confused by me, but you know, like I, I went to serve everyone in our orphanage, had HIV. And I went to serve
[00:10:36] Palmer Williams: mm-hmm.
[00:10:37] Palmer Williams: This community. And as the Lord always does in his upside down kingdom, flipping things on their head, the way that those kiddos served me every day, we had a really sandy village that we lived in.
[00:10:49] Palmer Williams: And so getting, I was a teacher, which also knowing me is hilarious. 'cause I, that's not my gifting, but it's what they needed, so
[00:10:56] Palmer Williams: mm-hmm.
[00:10:56] Palmer Williams: I taught and getting to our [00:11:00] hut every morning, or from my hut to the school. It was really sandy and really hard. I dunno if you've ever tried to roll like a cooler sand.
[00:11:09] Mike Glenn: It's exactly at the beach. Doesn't
[00:11:10] Palmer Williams: work
[00:11:10] Mike Glenn: anything out there doesn, right? Yeah.
[00:11:11] Palmer Williams: Yeah. And but every morning this group of kiddos would come and meet me and push me and sing the whole way. Just so joyful. And they had lost literally everything
[00:11:21] Mike Glenn: right. Of they
[00:11:21] Palmer Williams: all have
[00:11:22] Mike Glenn: most of the time work from our work in south in, uh, living Hope in South Africa.
[00:11:26] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:11:27] Mike Glenn: You know, the parents have died.
[00:11:29] Palmer Williams: Mm, yeah.
[00:11:29] Mike Glenn: Extended families died. These kids are. Or orphaned to the second and third degree.
[00:11:35] Palmer Williams: Yeah. Yeah. No family
[00:11:37] Mike Glenn: and, and now HIV positive.
[00:11:39] Palmer Williams: Yeah. So I actually, our connection with adoption I now have a brother Yeah. From that village that, um, cool. Yeah. Which is amazing.
[00:11:47] Palmer Williams: So my, I was 21 and single and about to go. I went back to law school when I got home, but I met this little boy who was real sick and needed a family and was just. I dunno. [00:12:00] A joy. So I introduced him to my parents who were 60 at the time and said, I realize you think you're done, but I don't think the Lord thinks.
[00:12:08] Mike Glenn: That's right. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
[00:12:09] Palmer Williams: And so thank you this's. Put, you know, pray. Let
[00:12:13] Mike Glenn: it fogs up. Let's
[00:12:13] Palmer Williams: get to
[00:12:13] Mike Glenn: it.
[00:12:14] Palmer Williams: Yeah. So, yeah, so now my brother's a junior in college and has been home for 15 years at this point. So the Lord knew what he was doing when he called me back. I knew, I think he knew what my heart needed and also that there was a little boy who needed a sister, I think.
[00:12:32] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:12:32] Palmer Williams: So so yeah.
[00:12:33] Mike Glenn: But this awakens in you, this
[00:12:38] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:12:38] Mike Glenn: Ministry awareness.
[00:12:41] Palmer Williams: Yeah. I think I, I think as someone who has often been seen as. Source of charity.
[00:12:49] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:49] Palmer Williams: So when you walk, when you roll around in a wheelchair your brokenness is on display, right? Mm-hmm. Everyone knows what you're struggling with.
[00:12:56] Palmer Williams: Now they don't know. All
[00:12:57] Mike Glenn: right?
[00:12:58] Palmer Williams: Hot mess, all the [00:13:00] struggle, but they, you, they know, okay, this person needs help.
[00:13:04] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:06] Palmer Williams: So from a young age, I knew what that was and I also knew what it was to receive help. And so I think I'm, I'm grateful for my accident. Um, I don't think God caused it. I don't think he causes bad things, but he uses it for his glory.
[00:13:20] Palmer Williams: Sure. Anytime we let him. And so I'm grateful for what he has, the, the posture that he's allowed me to have.
[00:13:28] Speaker 4: What
[00:13:28] Palmer Williams: you've learned, right. Because I'm. A prideful little thing. And so it's, I think he knew, you know, I have a daily physical reminder of my dependence on him, and that is so I need that so much.
[00:13:41] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:42] Palmer Williams: And so to be able to then go through my life and
[00:13:45] Mike Glenn: Jacob's limp, huh?
[00:13:46] Palmer Williams: Yeah, yeah. And the, you know, the thorn in, in Paul's side and, and those sort of things. I think I, yeah, there's, there can be beauty from that, even though there's hard days. But I think that gave me a perspective on and [00:14:00] an empathy for kind of the world around me and mm-hmm.
[00:14:04] Palmer Williams: And maybe those hidden needs. So I had kind of had that, but then going to Africa and seeing seeing the joy and the, the church at work.
[00:14:15] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:16] Palmer Williams: Like. I was there really to support the work of the church that was already happening. Mm-hmm. There. And it was such a neat experience to see, gosh, the global church is active.
[00:14:27] Palmer Williams: Yeah. And doing Yeah. And probably healthier than we are sometimes over here. And so that really birthed in me, I think, a passion to, um, whatever I was doing, to have it have some sort of ministry
[00:14:40] Palmer Williams: mm-hmm.
[00:14:40] Palmer Williams: Impact.
[00:14:41] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:42] Palmer Williams: Yeah. Then came back and. Started my career, I guess.
[00:14:46] Mike Glenn: Okay. But we got the community thing, then we got the law degree.
[00:14:50] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:51] Mike Glenn: Which you didn't go into private practice.
[00:14:54] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:14:55] Mike Glenn: Um,
[00:14:56] Palmer Williams: yeah, so I, I studied international law mm-hmm. At Vanderbilt, [00:15:00] thinking I would be an international adoption attorney with my brother coming home. And, ah, my eyes opened to kind of the orphan crisis. The dilemma
[00:15:08] Mike Glenn: of, of what that happened.
[00:15:09] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:15:09] Palmer Williams: Yeah. What that means. And also seeing firsthand when a kiddo is given a family and given belonging how radically mm-hmm. It can change their life. So that was my, my intent.
[00:15:22] Mike Glenn: Yeah. That changes anybody's life, not
[00:15:25] Palmer Williams: no. Yeah, absolutely. And it's such a fun thing to be a part of getting to, to redeem that part of our broken world.
[00:15:33] Palmer Williams: And so, I met my husband in law, well I met him in undergrad, but we started dating in law school and really to do the work I wanted to
[00:15:42] Mike Glenn: do. And Joseph is a whole nother video. We just don't, we don't have time to get into Well,
[00:15:46] Palmer Williams: yeah.
[00:15:47] Mike Glenn: Anything at this point.
So
[00:15:49] Palmer Williams: he is, he is a sweet, fun boy. And,
[00:15:52] Mike Glenn: you're the only one in the U world who describes Joseph Williams as a sweet, fun boy.
[00:15:58] Palmer Williams: That's probably true. It's because he [00:16:00] is met his match. You know,
[00:16:04] Palmer Williams: it's, yeah. He, um, but yeah, so we started dating and I knew that he's
[00:16:09] Mike Glenn: the chief of the staff for the governor. For those of you who may not know he is. Yeah. And he is known for being extraordinarily well connected. Being a bulldog when it comes to the agenda that he's trying to get. So, so the idea that you would called him a sweet boy is just
Yes.
[00:16:30] Mike Glenn: A pit bull for Jesus. Maybe.
[00:16:32] Palmer Williams: Yeah. There
[00:16:32] Mike Glenn: we go. I'll be unsettled with that all day. Good drinking.
[00:16:37] Palmer Williams: I love it. Yeah. Well, so I had basically had to put him through law school. Yeah. He was, he taught inner city high school here in Nashville for a couple years. So he was a couple years behind me in law school.
[00:16:48] Palmer Williams: So, um, when we got out school and had just got married, the jobs that I really wanted were in DC or Geneva or New York.
[00:16:55] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:55] Palmer Williams: And he was here and I liked him, and so I didn't wanna That's right. Him. Right. [00:17:00] And so I started working for the Department of Children's Services here in Nashville for a little season as an attorney.
[00:17:07] Palmer Williams: Hardest work I've ever done. I mean, working with kids from hard places with the hardest stories cried every day because. The stories were hard and all the things but also some of the best work that I've ever gotten to be a part of. Mm-hmm. And yeah. And then from there, I mean, my resume, I love new projects.
[00:17:28] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm. And my resume reflects that my career is all over the place of trying new things and with a common thread of where the vulnerable and the overlooked amongst us,
[00:17:39] Mike Glenn: especially children.
[00:17:40] Palmer Williams: Especially kiddos. Yeah. Especially kiddos. Okay. And where are those places that we, they need to be fought for?
[00:17:47] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:47] Palmer Williams: They need to be protected. They need to be educated and, and brought up. And so there's, there's been a common thread throughout my career, but yeah, it's been all over the place [00:18:00] since then. Okay.
[00:18:00] Mike Glenn: So when, uh, when I first met, met Joseph and then, and then T Kings. School Yeah. Was just, was just getting underway.
[00:18:09] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:18:10] Mike Glenn: With that. So you're sitting in church, you're sitting at home and you go, let's start a school.
[00:18:18] Palmer Williams: Yeah. Yeah. So I, yes. Yeah. Kind of. Yes. Um, so yeah, it was practicing law, mainly federal law in DC constitutional law, and then also international human rights. So persecuted religious minorities. Mm-hmm. Fewer pastor.
[00:18:34] Palmer Williams: Prison for your faith. I was your girl couldn't really help you with anything else like wills or anything normal. But my, we had three boys. We have three boys and they were starting school and Joseph had been involved in the education reform movement. Right. For many years. But I hadn't, I mean, I went to school for a long time.
[00:18:53] Palmer Williams: Right. But that's the extent of my knowledge mm-hmm. When it came to education, but. We, we had sent [00:19:00] our oldest to Covenant, which is a Christian school here in town and loved it, sweetest place. And I remember so distinctly sitting in chapel one day and just saying a prayer to Thanksgiving to the Lord.
[00:19:10] Palmer Williams: Like I just looked around and all of my friends were there and we all kind of had a similar view of how we wanted to raise up our kids. Mm-hmm. To know and love the Lord. And I just said, thank, thank you Lord. Mm-hmm. That this is safe and like I can do this for the next six years. And I distinctly heard his voice to say, yeah, but what about everybody else?
[00:19:30] Palmer Williams: What about the other mamas that want something different for their kiddos? Right. Or who are in a failing school and living in the projects and they don't have choice.
[00:19:37] Mike Glenn: Yeah. All the kids you let you dealt with at DCS are now going to school. So where, where did they go?
[00:19:41] Palmer Williams: Go and where do they go? And I had never stopped to think about what it would be like to not get to ask what's best for my kid.
[00:19:49] Palmer Williams: So we always had, I mean, Joe and I are so nerdy. Every date night is some policy discussion or some Supreme Court case or you know, what is our educational philosophy for our kiddos? Since [00:20:00] before we even had them, we were asking those questions, but what would it be like to be a mom who couldn't ask that question of, Hey, I really see my kid isn't thriving here.
[00:20:08] Palmer Williams: What are my options? Yeah.
Right.
[00:20:09] Palmer Williams: I don't have any options. And, um, and I really believe in the power, the transformative power of Christian education. I just do. Mm-hmm. Teaching kids what's true and good and beautiful.
[00:20:20] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:21] Palmer Williams: And so sitting in, in that sweet school, the Lord kind of pressed upon me, let's think about something new.
[00:20:27] Palmer Williams: Like how do we create more opportunity for more kids to experience this type of education? Right. And I like to start things. I like to do the hard thing. Um, and so we started looking at models around the country of who else has done this. Mm-hmm. How can we create a socioeconomically diverse. School model that's sustainable.
[00:20:49] Palmer Williams: If it's all scholarship, it's gonna be really hard to raise those scholarships every year. Right? Right. And also we're not getting that diversity of the body of believers from all different resources and walks of life. [00:21:00] So we've created a school model where 40% of our kiddos come from houses below the poverty line.
[00:21:05] Palmer Williams: 30% are working class families and 30% are full pay families. So you have everyone's paying something, but it's based on their income and then we get to do link arms and do life together. I think one of the things I've noticed about Nashville in particular, especially coming, seeing the global church at work and coming back to Nashville, we have a church on every corner.
[00:21:26] Palmer Williams: Right.
[00:21:26] Mike Glenn: We have a church building on every corner. Yes. May we not have a church on every
[00:21:29] Palmer Williams: corner. Yes. A great point. Yes, exactly. We have. We have so many buildings. And that's part of what we did our, with our school model, is we found a church that had too much building.
[00:21:38] Mike Glenn: Yeah. We said,
[00:21:39] Palmer Williams: Hey, let's fill it.
[00:21:40] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:21:40] Palmer Williams: During, um,
[00:21:42] Mike Glenn: and it's even, even the most active church is open a couple of hours a week.
[00:21:45] Palmer Williams: Right. And you have this space. Yeah. You are like, the Lord's giving us this space, let's fill it. Mm-hmm. Goodness. But I think it can be really difficult for us to do life together when we're just coming together on Sunday mornings or Wednesday nights, and even if we add in small [00:22:00] group.
[00:22:01] Palmer Williams: I don't know if you experienced this, but as my kids get older, small group gets harder and harder to get to every week.
[00:22:05] Palmer Williams: Right? Yeah, sure,
[00:22:06] Palmer Williams: sure. Because we're doing all the other things. But when you come together in a school and you're doing life together
[00:22:11] Palmer Williams: mm-hmm.
[00:22:12] Palmer Williams: I've been able to see the big church be the church.
[00:22:15] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm. So we have single mama car breaks down, doesn't know how she's gonna get to her job at mapco, doesn't know how she's gonna get her baby to school. We have another family with resources to either. Help her, you know, get the mechanic there or provide a vehicle or whatever it might be. We've had kiddos who have gone into the foster care system and would've been lost to us forever.
[00:22:37] Palmer Williams: And our school came around and furnished an apartment, found someone within the foster system who could care for them and said, we will be their family. Will you just let them stay with us? Right. And the court said yes. So we've gotten to see families and sibling groups stay together. So it's just an honor to get, to be part of a community and get to help steward this group of families that say [00:23:00] we wanna do we wanna raise our kids together, even though we look differently, our bank accounts look different.
[00:23:07] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm. Um, but we believe that the Lord has called us to this.
[00:23:11] Mike Glenn: But see you, you're kind of the poster child of, of what, what I want to see happening more and more.
[00:23:18] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:18] Mike Glenn: And in that most church members are bored.
[00:23:23] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:23:24] Mike Glenn: Okay. They have, they, they, they do hard stuff all weekend. We, we tell them, come sit.
[00:23:29] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:23:29] Mike Glenn: You know, to be a successful church member, you come a lot and you sit a lot.
[00:23:33] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:34] Mike Glenn: But that bores them to death.
[00:23:36] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:23:37] Mike Glenn: Now, had more have, if more of our folks are sitting in church and have the moment that you had like, hey. This is wonderful, isn't it? Wouldn't it be more wonderful if more mothers had the same option?
[00:23:52] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:23:52] Mike Glenn: If more parents in Nashville had the same option and you can make that happen. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now, you know, you, you don't [00:24:00] have anything with you Right. Then that says Palmer can make a school.
[00:24:09] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:24:09] Mike Glenn: Okay. That's
[00:24:10] Palmer Williams: probably the opposite.
[00:24:10] Mike Glenn: Right. You see what I'm saying? There's nothing on your pew.
[00:24:12] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:24:13] Mike Glenn: You know, you're not, you're not a trained educator.
[00:24:15] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:16] Mike Glenn: You know, you, you haven't had, uh, years of experience. What you have is the knowledge of hurting children.
[00:24:23] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:24:24] Mike Glenn: From your work with DCS mm-hmm. And, and the knowledge of what it feels like to be safe in school.
[00:24:31] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:24:32] Mike Glenn: Okay. That's all you have.
[00:24:34] Palmer Williams: Yep.
[00:24:35] Mike Glenn: Those two things end up with Kings Academy.
[00:24:38] Palmer Williams: Yeah. You know what's really interesting?
[00:24:40] Palmer Williams: I think Joe and I have talked a lot about this, 'cause my husband grew up in Memphis and I grew up here in Nashville and in Memphis. What I have seen, and it's not perfect, but the way that the city is laid out
[00:24:54] Palmer Williams: mm-hmm.
[00:24:55] Palmer Williams: You can't avoid the problems of Memphis.
Right?
[00:24:58] Palmer Williams: Right. You have [00:25:00] wealthy neighborhood next to the projects, next to a wealth.
[00:25:02] Palmer Williams: I mean, it's just the city is laid out in a way where you can't avoid. The issue, the racial issues, you can't avoid the poverty, the
[00:25:10] Mike Glenn: housing issue,
[00:25:11] Palmer Williams: crime anyway. Right. You're, you're in it together. Mm-hmm. And so I've seen the church be a lot more intentional and active because they know each other and they know the issues.
[00:25:21] Palmer Williams: Right. In Nashville, one thing that I've found, and I think it goes back my, you know, my grandparents, great grandparents, all born and raised. My grandfather would say, it goes back to when they put the interstates in. Right. And they really segregated the way that neighborhoods
[00:25:34] Mike Glenn: were
[00:25:34] Palmer Williams: laid
[00:25:34] Mike Glenn: out. They sure did.
[00:25:34] Mike Glenn: They sure did. And one of the, one of the interesting things about black history in Nashville mm-hmm. Is what happened to Jefferson Street.
[00:25:42] Palmer Williams: Yes.
[00:25:43] Mike Glenn: When, uh, which was the Black West End.
[00:25:45] Palmer Williams: Oh yeah.
[00:25:46] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Uh, and what happened to those neighborhoods and, and all the businesses and, you know. We talk about country music all the time.
[00:25:56] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. But there was a row of what, what they used to call the [00:26:00] chitlin circuit.
[00:26:01] Speaker 4: Mm.
[00:26:02] Mike Glenn: Over in that area where some of the BB King Oh yeah. Albert, like vibrate, all these folks came and played and some of America's music was born.
[00:26:13] Palmer Williams: Right there. Right there. Yeah. I think, and so I think in Nashville you can live in.
[00:26:19] Palmer Williams: You know, green Hills, Brentwood. Mm-hmm. Oak Hill.
[00:26:22] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:22] Palmer Williams: West End even.
[00:26:23] Mike Glenn: Well, the other thing was the way the city developed.
[00:26:25] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:26:26] Mike Glenn: The managers, the mill owner and the mill worker never go to the same church.
[00:26:30] Palmer Williams: Yes.
[00:26:30] Mike Glenn: Okay. Never lived in the same neighborhood.
[00:26:32] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:32] Mike Glenn: The mill owner, to use that term, lived in Green Hills.
[00:26:36] Palmer Williams: Yep.
[00:26:36] Mike Glenn: The mill worker lived in, on East Nashville, on the other side of the river.
[00:26:40] Palmer Williams: Yep.
[00:26:41] Mike Glenn: So there was this real, and, and it had that river in between them.
[00:26:45] Palmer Williams: Yeah, you had the river and then you bring in the interstates.
[00:26:47] Mike Glenn: That's right. Yeah.
[00:26:48] Palmer Williams: And so I think I've noticed that there's a willingness and there's a, there's a hunger to do something mm-hmm.
[00:26:56] Palmer Williams: To be more than pew sitters, right?
[00:26:58] Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:59] Palmer Williams: But there [00:27:00] we don't have the same level of proximity to our neighbors where we have the resources they might need and vice versa to actually make that actionable. Mm-hmm. And. To your point, I think part of why we were started Kings and were able to do that is because we had a little bit more proximity from his teaching in the inner city and um, just some of the ministry work we had been involved with to say, okay, we know we can go to those communities and say,
[00:27:25] Mike Glenn: and the church at Tusla Hills
[00:27:27] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:27:28] Palmer Williams: Who had been doing it forever
[00:27:29] Mike Glenn: Yeah. And, uh, was available.
[00:27:31] Palmer Williams: Yeah. And they were so hospitable to us and still are.
[00:27:35] Mike Glenn: Right.
[00:27:35] Palmer Williams: So I, I think one of the things that we have to do. As the Church of Nashville is, get out of our pews and get uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. And, um, and begin to serve people that don't look like us that don't believe like we do.
[00:27:54] Palmer Williams: That make us feel uncomfortable. One, 'cause I think that's where Jesus would be actually, we know, right? Mm-hmm. We [00:28:00] know in scripture it's like pretty clear.
[00:28:01] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:28:02] Palmer Williams: Who is he hanging out with? It's the people that. That typical churchgoer in Nashville would not be having supper with.
[00:28:08] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:09] Palmer Williams: Because when we do, all of a sudden our eyes are open to where our resources can be used because I think there's a desire there for those who are following Jesus to use their resources for.
[00:28:19] Palmer Williams: Right. Good.
[00:28:20] Mike Glenn: Right.
[00:28:21] Palmer Williams: It's just. We're gonna miss the mark if we don't have the proximity to the issue. Mm-hmm. So for example, my,
[00:28:28] Mike Glenn: the, the, the folks at Covenant College in, uh, Chattanooga
[00:28:32] Palmer Williams: mm-hmm.
[00:28:33] Mike Glenn: Uh,
[00:28:33] Palmer Williams: yeah.
[00:28:34] Mike Glenn: Who do all the work with poverty.
[00:28:36] Palmer Williams: So Good.
[00:28:37] Mike Glenn: Talk about that. Poverty is the lack of a access.
[00:28:42] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:43] Mike Glenn: That's what poverty really is.
[00:28:44] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:28:45] Mike Glenn: That when I'm in trouble, I know who to call. Mm-hmm. I know, I know who to get to. You know, and
[00:28:52] Palmer Williams: that's what's been beautiful about our community at Kings. It's like all of a sudden, you know, we have 250 kids this year. I'm bad at math, [00:29:00] so let's say a hundred and something of them didn't have those connections before, and all of a sudden they're in a community.
[00:29:07] Palmer Williams: Now They do. Now they do. And so not only are we getting to raise up a generation of leaders
[00:29:13] Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
[00:29:13] Palmer Williams: Who love and know the Lord. We're also able to take the pressure off of the welfare state. Right.
[00:29:21] Mike Glenn: Right.
[00:29:21] Palmer Williams: Because kiddos not going into foster care. Mama's coming off of food. Kiddo's not going
[00:29:26] Mike Glenn: into prison.
[00:29:27] Palmer Williams: Kiddo's not going into prison. They know how to read. Right. We know the literacy, third grade literacy rates are how we project prison beds in the state. Our kids know how to read. Yeah. We have our, our first graders right now are in the 90 like fourth percentile in the country for achievement because we got them in pre-K.
[00:29:46] Palmer Williams: We resource them quickly.
[00:29:48] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:48] Palmer Williams: Any sort of, we have a lot of multilanguage learners at our school, so a lot of first generation English speakers. Mm-hmm. So we get them early, we teach them English, we provide resources at home, and then all of a sudden they're [00:30:00] caught up.
[00:30:00] Mike Glenn: Well, they're, they're caught up.
[00:30:02] Mike Glenn: But being able to speak English opens up all kind other doors. The doors for, for jobs and other schools and that
[00:30:10] Palmer Williams: kind of stuff. And what it does for my kids, like what I. I'm so passionate about for my kiddos is they now, they're, they're never gonna know by the Lord's grace, never gonna know what it is to not have a meal on the table.
[00:30:24] Palmer Williams: Right. To not be able to get new shoes. Mm-hmm. To not be able to play the sport they want. But their best friend share, heck are right. And now they. See that through the eyes of their best friends. Mm-hmm. And their hearts are changed in ways that
[00:30:37] Mike Glenn: Yeah. They got, they get a second thought, right?
[00:30:39] Palmer Williams: Yeah. Second thought, just a, just a softening of, of their hearts.
[00:30:44] Palmer Williams: And so I'm thankful they get the proximity thing 'cause they're living it, right. Like they, um, and now we just gotta figure out how. Open those doors up for the church because there's so much need. Okay,
[00:30:55] Mike Glenn: Palmer, I, I wanna put you in front of all the churches in Middle Tennessee.
[00:30:58] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:30:59] Mike Glenn: Couple of [00:31:00] thousand people.
[00:31:02] Mike Glenn: Good folks. Love Jesus. Want to do something? Maybe even at the point where you were, okay, I have, I have a desire and I know the target.
[00:31:14] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:15] Mike Glenn: And I know the people group I want to reach, I know, I know the problem I want to address. Coach me up, what do I do?
[00:31:23] Palmer Williams: Yeah. I think first you've gotta go to the communities you wanna serve.
[00:31:26] Palmer Williams: And this would come straight from the Covenant College when helping her research. Right, right,
[00:31:30] Mike Glenn: right.
[00:31:30] Palmer Williams: Go to the people group and make sure. That it is something they need and want.
[00:31:35] Mike Glenn: That's
[00:31:35] Palmer Williams: right.
[00:31:36] Mike Glenn: Right. Don't be a Baptist at the door with a casserole.
[00:31:38] Palmer Williams: No. And thankfully before we started Kings, of course the Lord sets everything up.
[00:31:43] Palmer Williams: My husband and his job was getting to go and meet with those communities and like knew the leaders. Mm-hmm. Knew the issues had built up a reputation for. Being willing to have any conversation. Right. And talk about the hard things. Mm-hmm. And learn about what was happening. And so it [00:32:00] wasn't going in with a, I know what's, you know, I, I know what you need.
[00:32:03] Palmer Williams: But really an understanding of what the communities that they needed. Mm-hmm.
[00:32:07] Mike Glenn: Well, it is, it is a, it is a different approach when you come in and say, I know what you need. Or when you come in and say, I heard you say,
[00:32:17] Palmer Williams: mm-hmm. Very different,
[00:32:19] Mike Glenn: very different posture
[00:32:20] Palmer Williams: and a different posture because. This work is really hard.
[00:32:23] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm. And the enemy doesn't want it to happen.
[00:32:24] Mike Glenn: Yeah.
[00:32:25] Palmer Williams: Right.
[00:32:25] Mike Glenn: All right. So so do the research.
[00:32:28] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm. Do the research.
[00:32:30] Mike Glenn: Go do the hard walking around in the trenches, find out really what the pro, because a lot of times what the problem is is not what, how it manifests itself.
[00:32:39] Palmer Williams: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Really understand.
[00:32:43] Palmer Williams: That area. Partner with local churches like, and that's, we have not done a lick of. Advertising for our seats and we have wait lists right out the door.
[00:32:52] Mike Glenn: Right.
[00:32:52] Palmer Williams: But we have talked to local churches and said, Hey, we, we exist. And that's how we got in our first year. We opened in the middle of [00:33:00] COVID.
[00:33:00] Mike Glenn: Oh yeah.
[00:33:01] Mike Glenn: Remember all of this? Yeah.
[00:33:02] Palmer Williams: Yeah. And we opened, um, our doors with 94 students without a place to go. 'cause we had lost our building and we, um, but there were so many. Families that were hungry and we literally just went to local church pastors that we knew in the Hispanic community, in the black community, um, in the Burmese community, which is an area
[00:33:23] Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
[00:33:23] Palmer Williams: Um, real close to our school.
[00:33:24] Mike Glenn: Yeah. People don't know that there's 90 languages spoken in the middle of Tennessee area. A little over 90
[00:33:29] Palmer Williams: languages. It's amazing. Yeah. It's so great. We have, um, like a nation's potluck every Yeah. We have a worship night twice a year and all of our families do a dish from their nation and it is amazing.
[00:33:40] Palmer Williams: Oh, so cool. Um. Really, I mean, if we go back to the beginning of Kings, there was a bur group of Burmese families. So if you know much about mm-hmm. The Burmese crisis coming from Myanmar, these families are religious refugees. All the ones that we, we were working with were all Christians who had been, their families had been [00:34:00] slaughtered and Myanmar.
[00:34:00] Speaker 4: Right.
[00:34:01] Palmer Williams: Coming the UN had placed them in America. They were in a failing school district. They have not a penny to their name. And this group of moms started a Bible study and were praying every day for a new school for their kids. Some of the strongest believers I've ever met.
[00:34:15] Palmer Williams: Yeah.
[00:34:16] Palmer Williams: And two years later I heard that story.
[00:34:19] Palmer Williams: It was after we'd already, they had started praying. Two years later, we opened the doors. A year later. Of course, it's all their prayers. That's what, that's what it was about. But this faithful group of women said, we don't even, like, I mean, what a bold prayer to pray when you have not a penny to your name and you're in a country where you don't speak the language.
[00:34:37] Palmer Williams: Right. I'm like, Lord, we're
[00:34:39] Mike Glenn: asking, asking. Yeah. But that's something the mama does.
Yes.
[00:34:41] Mike Glenn: Yeah. That's, that's, that's the prayer. Okay. Okay. Lord, we're talking about my kid here.
[00:34:45] Palmer Williams: Yeah. So just knowing those churches, and that's how, because of the, the ministry at Tus Hills Baptist. They had been in, been serving the Burmese mm-hmm.
[00:34:55] Palmer Williams: Population there. Mm-hmm. And so when we linked arms with that church as a [00:35:00] school, they said, Hey, we got, we got tons of Burmese families that have been desperate for this. And so I think the local church can be such the perfect place to start. Can do. They know it, they know the communities. And then I think know where, what your role is.
[00:35:15] Palmer Williams: I'm not an educator. I'm a gatherer of people.
[00:35:18] Mike Glenn: Yeah, you're a convener.
[00:35:19] Palmer Williams: Yeah. And I love bringing all of the smartest people I know around a table. Mm-hmm. And saying, y'all get to work and let me know how I can help and I can raise some funds. Mm-hmm. And I can do that sort of thing. 'Cause there's a lot of funds to be raised for this type of work, but know what your strengths are and lean into those and then know that the beautiful body of Christ is gonna fill
[00:35:39] Mike Glenn: in.
[00:35:39] Mike Glenn: Yeah. Be, be the rest of it. Be humble enough to ask for help.
[00:35:42] Palmer Williams: Oh yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:43] Mike Glenn: Because most of the time there's, there's folks are ready to Yeah. Ready, ready, ready to do it.
[00:35:47] Palmer Williams: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:48] Mike Glenn: So,
[00:35:49] Palmer Williams: yeah.
[00:35:50] Mike Glenn: Well, Palmer, you are our inspiration. One of my favorite people in the whole world. Oh, you really are. She is Palmer Williams.
[00:35:56] Mike Glenn: She is a local attorney, founder of King's [00:36:00] Academy. Oh God. I don't have time to list her resume, but she's a fabulous person. And I'm Mike Glenn, engaged Church Network. This is our podcast and we're grateful that you have been with us.
