Ministry Back to the People | Sandy Hamilton
Ministry Back to the People is more than a catchy phrase, it is a recovery of what the Church was always meant to be. In this conversation, Mike Glenn sits down with longtime friend Sandy Hamilton to celebrate a story of calling unfolding over decades and to explore why the “second reformation” is about releasing ministry to everyday believers. Sandy shares how prayer, discernment, and coaching helped her step into a new season of leadership, and why coaching is becoming essential for discipleship, leadership development, and even gospel conversations in a polarized, distracted culture. From helping people uncover what they already know to creating a coaching culture that strengthens pastors, equips leaders, and forms the next generation, this episode is a practical look at how churches can identify, train, and release the body to accomplish the mission God has given.
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[00:00:00]
Mike Glenn: I was trying to figure out how long we had known each other.
Sandy Hamilton: 30 years
Sandy Hamilton: when you, you guys move up
Mike Glenn: here.
Sandy Hamilton: So we were here before you were
Sandy Hamilton: right?
Sandy Hamilton: So, um, whenever you came, I mean, one we moved in. 91. 91, that's right.
Mike Glenn: David was already on. Was playing for
Sandy Hamilton: Brentwood
Mike Glenn: then,
Sandy Hamilton: wasn't it? We joined the church the same Sunday that Bill Wilson officially retired.
So we've known each other a long time, but had a lot of life lived.
Yeah. I haven't seen Jeanie in a while. She doing well?
Mike Glenn: Oh, she's doing great. She, oh, good. Her when I, we stepped down from, Brentwood. I said, now we can live anywhere. We can do anything you want to do. She says, I wanna live 10 minutes from Rowan.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Well, we already do that, so,
Sandy Hamilton: right.
Mike Glenn: And then she said, I wanna live our lives so that whenever our kids call us, the answer is yes.
You know, the whole thing. It, it's, you know, [00:01:00] Jean and I have had the privilege of, of, of having you guys in our lives for 30 something years now, uh, watching David's career develop and all of that and how, how, how you were part of that.
But the reason I wanted to sit down and talk to you today is we, we have, uh, uh, an interesting thing going on in the church. Right now.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And that it is, we're in the middle of a, of a big second reformation. The first reformation gave the Bible back to the people. The second reformation gives ministry back to the people.
Speaker 5: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, because of a lot of different things. This over professionalizing, uh, professionalism, uh, that we have had for the last. Decades or whatever of, uh, nobody did anything in the church. 'cause we'd always hire somebody to do that, uh, is no longer feasible for all kinds of reasons. And we'll have another podcast go into that.
But what we're finding out is that [00:02:00] the body itself is, is equipped as the Lord promised so that we would have all that we needed to accomplish the mission he gives us.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And one of the new task of, of the church in this time is identifying, training, and then releasing the ministry, those people.
Mm-hmm. And you're kind of the poster child for that. Uh, because, um, as, as I was telling some friends in the hall when introduced you, uh, to them, uh, you have gone from, uh, the, the, the put husband through degree.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, that is that you were the working half. Of a, of a struggling artist in Nashville.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Who began that, what, 10 year process to become an overnight success, you know? And, and you were, you were, uh, providing the, the finances to do that.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Um, he reaches some level of security and then success and has gone on with [00:03:00] that. The children grew up.
Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And, and one's in the music business.
And, and one is a, an accountant, a finance advisor, financial advisor with a big firm here in town, in fact was, was headhunted by that firm. Mm-hmm. Which is always a good thing to hear about your kids.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, so you have reached a good place in your life. You went through the coaching process. To kind of find out, okay, who's Sandy now and what does Sandy want to do?
Mm-hmm. Out don't of that recognized, Hey, I may be pretty good at this.
Sandy Hamilton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: That was called out by those Michelle and others who said, Sandy, you need to pay attention to this, and now you're on staff of the church. Doing the coaching and counseling and all of that.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So that's, that's what I wanna talk about.
I wanna celebrate that journey and hear about the different parts of it. So, [00:04:00] so let's go back to, and, and, gosh, you guys were in a great place. Your hi. Your kids were fine, you know, uh, good story. David's a level of success, but now
Sandy Hamilton: mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Who's Sandy in all this?
Sandy Hamilton: Right, right. So yeah, I mean, when my kids were beginning to leave the nest, I was just praying to the Lord, okay, where, what is my next phase of life?
Mm-hmm. What is that gonna look like? And um, so it just continued to be in that prayerful mode and, um, did what I could in. Preparation for that. And one of those things was I took the place assessment mm-hmm. That was offered at the church.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: And in the place assessment, um, it, it involves your personality, the disc profile, and then it also has your spiritual giftings mm-hmm.
And that kind of thing. And I wasn't surprised by the results of that. Um, my number one [00:05:00] spiritual gift was discernment. And I looked at that. I'll never forget looking at that and saying, yeah, I, that makes sense, but is that really a gift? And
Mike Glenn: what, what, what do you mean by that?
Sandy Hamilton: Well, I, I, it was a very frustrating thing for me, discernment.
I could sit in a room and someone will say a comment and I'll think. Their underlying reasoning behind what they said isn't pure. That kind of thing.
What do I do with that? A burden one's asking me, right? Yeah. What
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: What to do with that information. Mm-hmm. Or asking my, my opinion on anything. And so. I was just thinking, you know, what can I do with this gift? Um, and so I thought, well, they're offering this course on mentoring at the church. Mm-hmm. I'll just take that and [00:06:00] see where it takes me. It was a six week course taught by Tim Holcomb and, um, Tim was very passionate about Christian coaching.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sandy Hamilton: And during the course of that. Class. He talked about coaching and he, he mentioned that, um, you ask people questions and draw information out of them. Right. And through that process, they become self-motivated to wanna move forward with something. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: You help them know what they already know.
Sandy Hamilton: Yes. And, um, they, they, um. Have the desire within themselves once they have that information to move forward instead of being told what to do right when people are told what to do. Um. They might do it, they might not, but people are 80% Yeah. More likely to move forward with something if they determine it themselves.
Mm-hmm. And are self-motivated to move forward with it. Mm-hmm. That [00:07:00] fascinated me and I thought, well, maybe this is something that I can look into as well. So I took a couple courses in coaching and got an initial certification in it, and I remember the first few times I coached someone, um. I would just come out just excited and mm-hmm.
Energized and
Speaker 5: mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: Um, not only was I helping a person process what was going on in their lives, I felt like I was in a, just a sweet spot of using my giftings and my personality and, um. My passions in all of that.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. You, you know the reason you were born.
Sandy Hamilton: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. And, um, so I continued with that and I got, I ended up getting an a CC certification through the International Coaching Federation.
Mm-hmm. Which is the global organization that set standards for professional coaching. And, um, just because I loved it [00:08:00] and I wanted to pursue it. And, um,
Mike Glenn: so the 80% if it's intrinsic thing,
Sandy Hamilton: huh? Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. So, um, so anyway, it was not long after that that Michelle Dyer approached me and said, you know, asked me to come on staff at the church mm-hmm.
And kind of oversee the coaching program, which was, um. Going along, but it was in a time of transition,
Speaker 4: right?
Sandy Hamilton: And so when I came on board, I was able to really focus on what coaching would be in the church and um, how to move forward with it. And I did some research and I realized that, um. Our church could actually get cert, have a certified program through the International Coaching Federation.
We had the infrastructure. Mm-hmm. We had the experience and the ability to do that. So several years ago we went through an [00:09:00] extensive application process. And, um, so we are now the Center for Christian Coaching under the umbrella of Broadway Baptist Church. Mm-hmm. And we are a level one certified program through the International Coaching Federation.
And as far as I know, we are the first church in the world to have that certification.
Mike Glenn: Outstanding.
Sandy Hamilton: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Outstanding.
Sandy Hamilton: So it is exciting.
Mike Glenn: So what does that mean for you on, and you, you know, the, the question you asked, uh, early on was. What does this now mean for Sandy?
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: How do I discern what my, the next phase of my life will be?
And now you've led Brentwood to become this level one certified coaching center.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: So tell me about, um, the journey between and, and understand how I say this. Okay.
Sandy Hamilton: Okay.
Mike Glenn: Uh, Sandy, the housewife, Sandy, the mother of, of, uh, two children.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm. [00:10:00]
Mike Glenn: Sandy now, this professional coach.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: How this, how this transition and journey happened.
What were the two or three markers, uh, for you where you said, okay, I can now discern my own journey
Sandy Hamilton: here. Mm. Well, of course it starts with prayer.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: Um, just continually thinking about, um, you know, our, and pursuing that with the Lord and the Holy Spirit guiding me. Um, I really, I was looking at how God created me, my life experiences, my giftings that I have.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: And, um, I wanted to do something. I think the Lord. Wants all of us to be living in that sweet spot we talked about.
he's created us uniquely made
For a specific purpose and [00:11:00] that only me Sandy can, can fulfill. And, and so I was just looking at all of these aspects of who I was and, um.
How God put me through the life experiences that I've had. And I, I knew that there was a purpose for that, so I just continued to just look and, and
Mike Glenn: focus. Now, now you say, you say life experiences.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Not all of those experiences were good ones,
Sandy Hamilton: right? Right.
Mike Glenn: Some of them were painful.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Hard, uh, but in this, preparing you to do what you do now.
And, and this is one thing I want our friends to hear, God redeems those moments and brings a sensitivity to your life for a, uh, new adventure conversation, whatever.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, so, so if you're [00:12:00] somewhere and you go, well, I've got this in my life and I can't move forward.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Don't. You will find out that's not a block.
Exactly. It is actually a, a, a beginning point. It is for the new work that God wants to do.
Sandy Hamilton: And that's when you are, you know, it's not in your own power.
Mike Glenn: Right?
Sandy Hamilton: Yeah. You know, the, that, um, God is using those seasons in your life for greater purposes and to refine you. Into more of the likeness of Jesus.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
The best part of my is this, this sweet spot you talk about is this partnership where we're working with Christ and his redemptive work.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and you're in partnership and, and dealing with this person and helping them discern
Sandy Hamilton: mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, all of that. There, there's no, no, no place better
Sandy Hamilton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Than
Sandy Hamilton: that. Yeah, absolutely.
Mike Glenn: So what, uh, uh, what gets you excited, what gets you, uh, up early in the morning? When you [00:13:00] think about coaching and especially coaching in the life of the church?
Sandy Hamilton: Well, um, I just, I see how powerful coaching skills can be in ministry.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: And that is a big reason why we exist as a center for Christian Coaching, is to get these coaching skills into our ministers, our pastors, our our ministry partners, our global workers, um, because they are.
It works.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: It's effective and uh, it's a new approach to ministry then. Historically in the church, you know, the church has been so great at teaching and preaching. Mm-hmm. And mentoring and speaking into people's lives, right? Mm-hmm. Coaching and not listening. And not listening. Yeah. Yeah. They do that very well.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. We
Sandy Hamilton: wait to
Mike Glenn: talk, we
Sandy Hamilton: don't listen. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Sandy Hamilton: So in coaching, you're drawing information out of an individual, right?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: You're asking powerful questions to get them [00:14:00] to process what's going on in their lives. Mm-hmm. In their circumstances and hopefully getting them to some new awareness within their lives.
Mm-hmm. And, um, once they have that, they've be, you know, brought that information up from the to the surface, then they can make some kind of an action plan to move forward. And the beautiful part about it is that they're motivated, they're self-motivated. Mm-hmm. They're gonna move forward. Take, they are responsible for what happens next,
Mike Glenn: right?
Right. This is their
Sandy Hamilton: plan. The minister is not responsible. So once you've had that conversation, the person that you're coached is responsible to take what has been discussed and move forward.
Mike Glenn: Well, what we're finding out in, in church leadership and, and you know, there's always this thing of, um. Of the Boomers.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And Gen Alpha and Gen and Gen Z and that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. And what we've started talking about [00:15:00] is when you're working with these young adults, the Gen Alpha, gen Z, that it's not a management and supervision, but it is a coaching relationship.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: That they respond
Sandy Hamilton: to. Mm-hmm. And. We really need to be speaking to these younger generations with a different perspective.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sandy Hamilton: They don't like to be told what to do.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: They have information well bombarded with
Mike Glenn: them. I didn't like, I didn't like that either. So,
Sandy Hamilton: you're right. That's true.
Mike Glenn: So,
Sandy Hamilton: but, but the, but the younger generations are being bombarded, you know? Mm-hmm. With, with all of this internet access and, um. And everything just becomes relative after a while.
Right? Right. And, and so to ask questions of them and to get them to start processing what's going on in their lives, you know, evangelism in the past has been, you know, here's the four spiritual laws. Mm-hmm. You know, and that and person would say, well that [00:16:00] makes sense. I think I wanna do that.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sandy Hamilton: Today the youth are, they have so many things.
In their faces, they, they need to process.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sandy Hamilton: And, and that's the beauty of, of asking questions. Mm-hmm. 'cause you can help them process what's going on inside of their minds. Um, what is your view of God? Uh, could it be that your, your view of God is, is, um, distorted in some way? Um. You know, just asking them questions, faith questions, and getting them to process and to think, and, um, it can, it can be a very effective evangelism
Mike Glenn: to Yeah.
But the key there is you're talking about is letting them process it, not forcing them to a predetermined right. Answer.
Sandy Hamilton: Absolutely. Yes. Exactly.
Mike Glenn: So the story I often tell is, uh, Shipra and Pua,
Sandy Hamilton: okay.
Mike Glenn: Are the midwives in Exodus?
Sandy Hamilton: Okay.
Mike Glenn: And they are celebrated in Jewish lore on par with [00:17:00] Moses because they took on Pharaoh and didn't need a burning bush.
Sandy Hamilton: Okay.
Mike Glenn: Alright. These women, the midwives did two things. They created a safe place for the dream to be born.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And they refused to let a pagan king to find the future of God's people.
Sandy Hamilton: Yes.
Mike Glenn: Okay. So, so what I tell pastors is we're always been told, go up on the mountain, God gives you the vision and you come down.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: God has a vision and a mission and an identity already in that church when he called in into being the same way that Jesse, uh, and, uh. Becca, I knew it was short or so. I It's not Beth, it's not is Becca? I knew that, um, the same way that you could not raise, we could not raise Christian Craig the same way.
You could not raise Jesse and Becca the same way, the two unique children and the privilege of a parent, and the [00:18:00] challenge of the parent is to sit with that child so they understand who they are.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And call out what is already in, in, in them, in, in, into being and then watching them flourish once, once they discover that.
Mm-hmm. So it's, uh, we, we say it's a new way. Um, it's Exodus three.
Sandy Hamilton: There you go. You know, every penny that I've paid in coaching, um, classes and, and helping me to be, become the coach that I am.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: It was worth every penny. To have those skills with my children.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Sandy Hamilton: Because especially when they were young adults.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: Just beca becoming on their own and, and that kind of thing. Again, they,
Mike Glenn: well, you don't have quite the, the, the rank to pull that you did when they were 14
Sandy Hamilton: or 15. Right. Well, you're no longer their authority. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And, um, they don't wanna be told what to do, so you can challenge them with.[00:19:00]
Questions and help them process life for themselves. Mm-hmm. And help them to make wise decisions for themselves.
Mike Glenn: Does it help you with David at all?
Sandy Hamilton: Absolutely.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Um, there is somebody sitting in a church pew. Mm-hmm.
They feel some kind of tug from God, don't know what it is, don't, wouldn't know how to put words to it. What do you say to them?
Sandy Hamilton: Well, I would ask them, um, what's going on? You know, uh, what are they feeling? Um, where would you wanna start in this conversation? Um.
I, it really depends on, on the situation really. Right. So, yeah. Um, I mean, if, if they [00:20:00] are upset about a specific issue, I would ask them about, um, what is specifically in that issue that they're concerned about? What are your fears around that? Um, what do you think scripture says about that? How can you apply that scripture mm-hmm.
To the situation? Um, so you just try to draw out of them the information that they can't quite, it's not on the tip of their tongue yet. Right. But you can help them process it.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: Um, that is one skill. Uh, one thing that we have learned through neuroscience is that oftentimes the mind. It's just processing so fast or their emotions take over so that they aren't, they cannot clearly think.
And so we teach in, in the coaching classes how to help someone process through
Mike Glenn: mm-hmm. [00:21:00]
Sandy Hamilton: Um, the clutter in their mind.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. That's the, uh, the discipline of journaling. Because it forces your mind to slow down.
Sandy Hamilton: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. And that's what we do in coaching
Mike Glenn: too.
Sandy Hamilton: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: With that.
Sandy Hamilton: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: So what's next for Sandy?
Sandy Hamilton: Hmm. Well, um, I'm, I'm excited for the future, for the Center for Christian Coaching right now. Um, we're hoping to expand that and to, um, just communicate better to the congregations and, and to, um. Ministry partners, um, the, the, um, skills that are, are available to them through coaching. Mm-hmm. And, um, we're hoping to have a new course or two to offer, um, I, I think to develop a coaching culture.
Within, um, the church [00:22:00] is a big challenge and I'm hoping that we can start having better conversations about that.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: What coaching is and, um, how it can be effective in the church, not only, um, and, um, a coach, a coaching congregants, but also in ministry.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sandy Hamilton: So. Yeah, there's just a lot of communication of what coaching is and what it isn't.
There's a lot of confusion between, you know, what's consulting, what's coaching, what's therapy? Yeah. The life
Mike Glenn: coach thing that everybody and their brother seems to be doing now. Life coach. Yeah.
Sandy Hamilton: Well, the term coach. Is not a regulated term.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: So anybody can call themselves a coach, and that's why we align ourselves with the International Coaching Federation.
Um, they are the global organization that's set standards for professional coaching. So we, we go by their guardrails mm-hmm. Their [00:23:00] competencies. And then, um, as a faith-based organization, we obviously have a biblical perspective mm-hmm. On coaching and of course the Holy Spirit that's guiding us. So, um.
It's a beautiful combination, a powerful combination.
Mike Glenn: Oh, I think so too. And I think it is, it is the, um, uh, the future of the church is in it is, is how we tie evangelism into this. Coaching of life
Sandy Hamilton: mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Of not only the, the justification moment, but the sanctification of the partnering with God and, and all of
Sandy Hamilton: that.
Yes, absolutely. I, we have a course called, um, coaching Skills for Gospel Conversations and Discipleship.
Mike Glenn: Mm.
Sandy Hamilton: And when I was, during the research for that class, I just got, I really got excited.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sandy Hamilton: Because I can see how. Impactful coaching is going to be on the [00:24:00] future,
Mike Glenn: right.
Sandy Hamilton: Of the church. Mm-hmm. And, and how effective it can be, um, in helping people process their faith issues.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, and the one who modeled it best was. Jesus himself
Sandy Hamilton: Absolutely. With, with that. So Absolutely. He asked over 300 questions and the New Testament. Oh yeah,
Mike Glenn: I know. Oh gosh. This is Sandy Hamilton, Sandy and, and her husband David and I, and Jeannie have been friends for 30 years. Mm-hmm. And, and, and honestly, Sandy, one of the great things about being in a place for 30 years is being able to, to see people.
Catch hold of who they are in Christ and blossom in that. And you are, you are the poster child for that. And it has been a great privilege to be part of your life and kind of standing on the sidelines, cheering for you and watching what you have done. If you want to know more, you can reach your When Baptist Church.
That would be what? Sandy or S Hamilton. S Hamilton. S Hamilton. At Brentwood Baptist Baptist com. baptist.com. Com. Yeah, that's right. So if you, if you or your [00:25:00] church are interested in such a ministry, I'm really convinced that this coaching and. Every aspect from, uh, work, working with your staff, working with church members to evangelism itself is gonna be grounded in this coaching ministry.
Mm-hmm. And appreciate, uh, Sandy being here. Uh, I'm Mike Glen and this is the Engaged Church Network podcast. Thanks for being part of our journey today. Perfect.
