Jeff Allen On What Comedians Can Teach Pastors
In this episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast, comedian Jeff Allen joins Mike Glenn for an honest and deeply personal conversation about faith, fame, and finding purpose in the pain. Jeff opens up about his journey from addiction and brokenness to transformation through Christ — and how his comedic career intersected with God’s redemptive plan.
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Jeff Allen: I'd become a nihilist. I didn't even know that there was a name for it until I, I heard about it. I was a believer for two or three years, then I heard Ravi Zacharias mention- Mm-hmm ... nihilism. Mm-hmm. And when he explained what it was, I went, "That's it!" That's right. That was me!
Mike Glenn: Well, you know, physicists say that you do your best work before 30. Oh, really? Yeah, anything after 30, you're pretty much done in physics. Yeah. It's
Jeff Allen: funny, you know... Yeah, comedy's- Yeah ... you know, I, I hit my stride after I, after I became a believer, but it was because all of the baggage I carried on stage went away.
Yeah. All that, you know, um, all that anger and whatever, you know? But, uh, [00:01:00] and the church has helped, uh, because they were so accepting. I was able to- Well, it's rare you can find a good- ... find a safe, safe place to work ... a, a, a
Mike Glenn: good comic who's funny and clean.
Jeff Allen: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. You know, wonder, you're in a fraternity of about three.
There are a lot of clean- Yeah ... but they're not funny. Well, those, when Chaz got me
Jeff Allen: hooked up with the GMA here, they introduced me. Breeden, um, Breeden was the president. Yeah. Yeah. He said, uh, "We saw this guy at Estes Park. He's a Christian who's a comedian who's actually funny." That's right. And I called my manager the next day.
I said, "Here's what we're up against." That's exactly right. The people in the industry- Yeah ... just by association. Right. You know? Yeah. So we, well, I, I like to think we made a, we made an impact. Yeah. Um, I was really one of the first to bring my nightclub act into a church. Mm-hmm. And, um, since then, other people have, uh, you know, churches have got a little comfortable with hiring, you know?
Yeah. Um.
Mike Glenn: Let, let me tell you why, uh, why I'm, I'm eager for [00:02:00] this, for this conversation to happen. Uh, for a long time, uh, people would ask me, "What preacher do you watch?" And I would say to them, "I don't watch other preachers. I watch stand-up comedians." Oh. That's funny, I watch preachers. Yeah. Well, it's, it's- Yeah
okay, because you guys do what we try to do, you just do it a lot better. You can walk into a room full of strangers, in about 10 seconds, they're your best friends. Or not. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it doesn't always work. Yeah. You know, but you- Right ... at least you got a reaction- Right ... uh, out of them. Um, and you tell stories that are common to all of them or, or some way connect with them.
Yeah. And then leave them with something to think about. So- I try to get the, the, the pastors that I mentor, watch Jeff Allen. Watch how he walks on stage. Watch how he opens up, uh, and [00:03:00] engages and, and creates the relationship. Right. So, uh, I, I know your jokes have to be funny and that kind of... But there is a craft to comedy- Oh, absolutely
that a lot of people don't pay attention to. So, so talk to me about the things that you think about, uh, in, in putting together a, a comedy show and, and the craft that goes into that. Well, one of the first and
Jeff Allen: foremost things to me, I'm a storyteller. So if I make an observation that would be a s- like what I call a standalone observation- Okay
that doesn't fit into anything, then I, I put it in a notebook and I kind of visit it periodically. I, I'll, I'll check it out in the middle of a show. I'll just throw it out there, and if it gets a response, I know there's, there's a, a, a relating to it with the audience. If they don't relate to it, you know, uh, I think it was Steve Martin that did one of those where he, he had 25 plumbing references.
That's right. And then he, there was nothing from the audience. He goes, "Wow, that killed at the [00:04:00] plumbers convention." So that's the beginning. I mean, if they, if they can't relate to what you're talking about- Yeah ... you, you- Yeah ... you've lost them before you've even begun. Right. So, um, for me, brevity's the soul of wit.
I spend as much time on segues, uh, tying things together. Uh, the last thing I ever wanted to do was, you know, go, "Speaking of"- Right ... and then- Right ... starting a whole new topic. Mm-hmm. So that's kinda where it, it begins with me. If, if it doesn't flow, if I can't go from one place to the next, um, with the, with the transitions are very important.
And again, the, the, the wording and, and I've worked stories for over a year, a couple of them, and never got it right. It just never felt right. Mm-hmm. And then one night I would do something a little different, and I would go, "That's it." It was- Yeah, got
Mike Glenn: it ...
Jeff Allen: it was a two words or a, even a syllable. Mm-hmm.
Well, I remember the first time I did Nashville Now here in, back in the '80s, and they took a routine of mine and they took [00:05:00] something out of it and they made me change a word. It was a single syllable word to a two-syllable word, and that second syllable threw me. I, I ended up- ... stopping because it, it threw my rhythm off.
Right, right. It threw my mind off. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And, and, and again, it wasn't something I was comfortable with. So I think brevity is important. Um, if you can say it in fewer words, do it. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, the setups, the longer the setup- The better the punchline better be because if people are gonna invest a minute into your setup or two minutes, it doesn't sound like much but- Right
it's a long time. Mm-hmm. You better have a payoff that was worth the wait. So my attitude is I never really had good payoffs so I better get to the point quick So I can move on to the next one. And they call it laughs per minute. Yeah. But I've always been complimented on the fact that I get a lot of laughs per minute and I say, "Well, that was out of panic."
Yeah. You know, I didn't wanna give, I didn't wanna come up for air in the clubs I worked in. I don't
Mike Glenn: want you to think about that last one- That's right ... before I get to, to the next one. Ab- absolutely. Don't worry, there's another
Jeff Allen: one coming. You [00:06:00] didn't like that one, there's another one coming. So, uh, yeah, but I used to watch preachers because I, I heard that a good stand-up comic, the audience can leave and do a reasonable impression of him.
Right. You know, you listen to Carlin or Pryor- Right ... you know, uh, the, the Cosby. You know, you, you would go to your car and you could imitate that or- Mm-hmm ... try to imitate that. Mm-hmm. So preachers always, the good preachers always had a rhythm and a cadence and a, and a style that was- Right ... um, you know, uh, obviously the, the televangelists were, you know, almost cartoonish- Mm-hmm
in their delivery, but, um, it, it, it worked for them, you know? Uh, so, uh, and I, I like listening to, uh, smart sermons because it, it, it makes me think deeper, um, on if I was to do cultural things. I don't do a lot of cultural stuff anymore- Mm-hmm ... just because of the, the culture. [00:07:00] Right. You know? It's, it's so...
And it doesn't matter anymore. There's, it's so ubiquitous. I, you know, people say to me, "Why don't you do politics?" And I go, "Why?"
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Jeff Allen: You want it, you could... There's 1,000 guys doing that. Yeah. You know? You know, look at Nate Bargatze, the hottest comic in the world right now. Right. And, you know, it's just him talking about his life.
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's like a respite from- That's right. ... from all of the, from all the other stuff out there. Yeah. You know? So yeah, I don't, I don't do... And occasionally I make a crack, you know, if I think it's funny. Um, you know, I always said Carlin, Carlin was brilliant in his ability to walk to the line just when you're gonna go, "All right, get off your soapbox."
Yeah. You know, bam, there was a joke- Yeah ... and another joke- That's it ... and another joke. Right. And now you're wa- I'm watching the stuff he wrote in the '80s and '90s and it was almost prophesying. It's pretty right on. Yeah, that, yeah, no kidding. Yeah, it really is- Yeah ... uh, about that stuff, so he was, uh, one of my favorites.
I had a chance to meet him in Vegas- Uh, [00:08:00] in the '90s. Mm. Um, I was, uh, working the, the Bally's, I was working one of the clubs there, and he was in the main room. And I, I had my wife and kids with me. It was summer, and they were off school. And I said to Tammy, "Uh, boy, I'd love to meet Carlin." She goes, "Leave him a note."
And I go, "I'm not leaving him a note." Mm-hmm. She goes, "What's he gonna do? Come down and punch you for leaving him a note?" You know, he's gonna crumble it up. You'll never hear from him. That's right. Yeah, no big deal. You know, no harm, no foul. Nothing like that, right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he's not gonna go, "Gosh, these people-"
and send some thug down to beat the snot out of you, you know? So- Well, you know, head down, yeah ... yeah, "Go down there. Beat this kid up. I'm tired of these people writing me notes." So anyway, when she comes down a couple nights later, it was very funny. She goes, "Guess who I just talked to?" And I said, "Who's that?"
She goes, "George Carlin." I go, "You did not." She goes, "He called the room." And my son, who was eight years old at the time, Tammy was doing her hair and makeup. Yeah. Phone rings. He picks it up. She realizes five minutes, he's talking to someone on the ph- eight year old talking to somebody on the phone for five minutes.
She goes, "Who are you talking to?" He goes, "Who are you?" And he goes, "Uh, George Carlin." She goes, "It is not." So [00:09:00] anyway, she picked up the... I could hear him saying this too. Yeah, yeah. "Hi, Ma." You know, "Hello, Ma. I got your note. I got your husband's note. Uh, I got some tickets for you guys, and I got a chance to go backstage."
Oh. I mean, and it was the '90s, before cell phones, so I didn't get any pictures, but- Yeah ... me, I used to wake up to his, uh, Class Clown album, uh, every day before high school, you know. Uh, and, uh, I'd have that on while I
Mike Glenn: was getting dressed, so. Yeah. People don't remember that there used to be, uh, Pryor had 'em, uh, George Carlin had 'em, uh, these comedy al- Yeah
Bill Cosby had several, these comedy albums- Yeah ... that you would go to the music store to buy.
Jeff Allen: Well, I'm, I'm due it next year. I'm, I'm p- producing an LP. Are
Mike Glenn: you? I just- Going back
Jeff Allen: old school, huh? I, yeah, I, I m- I may, I'm s- I'm taping a, uh, uh, what I'm gonna call my first farewell special. First final farewell special.
And, uh, I don't know what I'm gonna do with it. You're gonna be like these old
Mike Glenn: rock groups that keep- Yeah ... having their farewell tour, huh? Yeah, exactly. One more time. But I
Jeff Allen: told my wife, I said, "I need to [00:10:00] get all of this stuff down one last time." Um, and we rented a theater in Casper, Wyoming. Yeah. The Rialto.
Uh, I was on stage there last year. Five minutes into it, I told myself, "I'm coming back here in 10." Yeah. It was like a, uh, a mini version of the Ryman Auditorium. Wow. Yeah, so it- It's a 1915 theater ... there's an energy in the room. Well, yeah. And the balcony came out. It only sat 400. Right. You know, where the Ryman seats 22.
Mm-hmm. But, um, but the balcony ca- I mean, they were on top of you, and the laughs just filled this auditor- I mean, so I'm, I s- I'm going back, so we're going back in March next year.
Mike Glenn: So you're sitting out in the congregation, and you're watching a pastor. What goes through your head? What do you wish most pastors understood about working a room or communications or-
Jeff Allen: Um, I, boy, it's funny.
I, I like smart. I like people who make me reach intellectually. Um, and again, it's not somebody who [00:11:00] throws out everything they've learned- Mm-hmm ... in their life, you know? Um, I don't... You know, Tommy Nelson's my, uh, I, I happened to get his tapes before I was saved. Mm-hmm. And I listened to him, probably 100-plus sermons in three months.
Um, uh, Tammy had left. I thought she was left for good. She took the kids to Ohio for the summer, and I had met a guy that signed me up for Tommy's tapes. Um, and I collected them for over a year and never- Mm-hmm ... opened one up. And the man that discipled me never asked. You know, he said, "Hey, I sent you tapes."
Mm-hmm. Never said that. We'd have conversations about golf, politic, whatever, you know, and every conversation ended with, "How you and Tammy doing?" I go, "Not too good, man. You know, I, I think we're gonna get that divorce." He goes, "Well, we pray for your marriage." And I go, "Why?" You know, he said, "Well, we just think that God didn't put...
We, we believe marriages are ordained by God. I know you don't believe in God- Mm-hmm ... but we believe He, and, and, and we think it'd be [00:12:00] better, um, He put you together to raise those kids." Right. You know? "And it would be- Mm-hmm ... better that way. So we just pray for you guys." I go, "That's great, man." You know, it meant nothing to me.
And, um, it was funny, a year, couple years later after I'd committed my, I committed my life to Christ in his living room, um, probably a year and a half later. But, uh, I was at his house and he had this jar of jelly beans, and I went to go, "Oh, I love jelly beans." He goes, "Ah!" I go, "What are you doing?" He goes, "Those are answers to prayers."
We had a, they had a 10 list, uh, prayer list every night at dinner, and they'd have each of the kids pray. You know, kids would bring friends- Right ... or whatever. Right. And every time a prayer was answered, they'd put a bean in the jar. So it was a visual of, for their children- Of the faithfulness, yes ... right, of what they s- Mm-hmm
what they saw. So, um, uh, what I loved about Tommy and what, when this guy... We were golfing at the time. He was doing comedy for 100 bucks a week. I couldn't understand that. He was worth millions, had [00:13:00] just sold his business to some foreign company and wanted to go out and do comedy- ... in his 40s, you know? So he had great golf courses and, you know, again, God knows this.
Yeah. You know? If, if God was leading me to his son, and this was the way to do it, because he could get me on Augusta National. And give you the idea of the whore-like nature- You, you, you- ... of my existence. You, you, you
Mike Glenn: have played in National. Not at all. Oh. He
Jeff Allen: called me. Yeah. Very funny. He calls me and he says, uh...
This was Monday. He goes, "Wednesday we're playing golf at Augusta. You wanna join us?" And we were broke. Yeah. You know? So I look into the airfares. It, it would cost me three grand between airfares and hotels, and, and we didn't have that kind of money. So, uh, anyway, I said, "I'm moving to Nashville." Yeah. He said, "When I get down there, uh, maybe we can do it again."
He goes, "Sure." So anyway- A year goes by, I c- call him up, "Hey, man, I'm, I'm in Nashville, you know." He goes, "Oh, he, he died." I go, "What?" He goes, "He was 89." He didn't tell me he was like, like, on his last breath. He goes, "Hell, they..." I, at that time, they, they- Yeah ... the membership was, averaged [00:14:00] a, a 78 years old- Right ... or something.
Yeah. You know, so they've since brought in some younger blood, but- I used to live in
Mike Glenn: South Carolina, right across the- Oh ... river from- Aiken? Uh, Edgefield. Edgefield. Right next to Aiken.
Jeff Allen: Yeah, okay.
Mike Glenn: But all my members had, uh, uh, passes. So I'd go Thursday with this guy, Friday with this guy. Yeah. Yeah, so I went four or five years straight in a row.
Oh, wow. It was, it was, it was... It's magical.
Jeff Allen: I
Mike Glenn: know. I, I
Jeff Allen: went to the tournament. Oh, yeah. Um, I, I practiced around. I, um, it was very funny, the first time I went, it was like, '05 or s- I don't know, whatever it was. Anyway, it was before they, they bought the neighborhood and gutted it and put the parking lots up.
Yeah, yeah. I was in a grocery store parking lot, and I called Tammy, 'cause they, at that time, they weren't gonna allow cell phones on the golf course. Right. So I call Tam, and, and I'm talking to her, and I get emotional. I start kind of, you know. And she goes, "Are you crying?" And I go, "Babe, this is a cathedral."
That's right. I said, "I, I grew up- You're walking into holy ground. ... I grew up sitting in my father's lap- Yeah ... watching this on [00:15:00] television- Yeah ... man, you know. And if it wasn't for golf and the majors, my father and I probably wouldn't have spoken for 20-plus years. That was the one thing we could talk about- Yeah
and not fight. Yeah. It starts- So anyway, she goes, "Why don't you call one of your friends who really cares?" I gotta meet your wife. Yeah. One day, she's- She's great. She's- So anyway, I go and I, and I walk in, and I stood there for at least a minute just looking around. Mm. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I know the feeling.
And I was by myself. I know the feeling exactly. I went down there all alone. And, uh, I walked, uh, I followed Tiger for a bit. And I, I mean, I just soaked it in. And I, and I've been back a couple times. I wanna
Mike Glenn: go back. Um- So in 1986, Jeannie and I walk on the course. Yeah. Jack is teeing off. Final round? Mm-hmm.
Really? And I, he's, he's one, two strokes behind, something like that. Yeah. He's close. But I look at Jeannie, I said, "Let's follow Jack. That way you can tell everybody you saw the greatest golfer ever to play."
Jeff Allen: Right.
Mike Glenn: And that's [00:16:00] when he won it. I know. And, and- I tell you where I was at ... we, we- I was in a hotel room watching it
we, we
Jeff Allen: were there And I was
Mike Glenn: crying. Yeah. I was crying. When he hugged his son.
Jeff Allen: Mm-hmm. Right there. Well, you know, he,
Mike Glenn: he's so nearsighted now- Yeah ... he can't see where the ball lands. Right. So he holds his his, his, his finish- Yeah ... and looks at his son. Yeah. And his son would go, "Yeah, you good." Yeah. I know. And that was because he could- I was told that.
Yeah. That he,
Jeff Allen: he wouldn't wear glasses. Yeah. And he, he- Yeah ... didn't see a shot over 150 yards
Mike Glenn: land-
Jeff Allen: Mm ... the last
Mike Glenn: decade. Mm-mm. Yeah. Sure didn't. Now, you tell, you tell a great story, uh, about, uh, your conversion process. Yeah. And of your friend encouraging you to check it out, because somebody who would, who would make a decision, uh, uh, without reading the material- Oh, right
is a moron. Right. Yeah. This is a great story.
Jeff Allen: Yeah. We were on a golf course, and, uh, I was reading Ayn Rand now, you know? I try to figure out how to hold my marriage together, and we were broke [00:17:00] financially, or spiritually, with everything. Um, uh, I, I, I like to say that everything I thought would make a good, productive life was being stripped away.
I was losing my career. I was l- you know, my wife was involved with another man. We had all this stuff going on. So I figured it out, okay, you know, I didn't care... You know, i- initially, when we would argue because we were losing everything, and then she would look at me, and, and I always tell, especially when I work churches, if you're in a marriage that's full of acrimony, wait till you get to apathy.
You know, there's nothing more painful in life, and I see it all the time- Mm ... at the airports. Mm. These young men, you see them- Yeah ... with their devices, and you go- Right ... and it's toxic to me, because I lived that way for years. Right. Where what does it matter? Who cares? If I get a sitcom or I get a movie, I get...
What difference, you know, anyway. Mm-hmm. Um, so I get put up with this millionaire businessman, and we're golfing, and I'm reading Ayn Rand, and I think, "Okay, [00:18:00] capitalism is it. I g- if I can make enough money, I can g- get out of all this debt, and I can, you know... Maybe that's where happiness is." Mm-hmm. You know?
I didn't think it was, I really didn't, uh, because I started comedy with the goal of making 300 bucks a week. You know? And it got there pretty quick. Yeah. And realized it was 500. No, it's 500. Mm-hmm. No, it's 700, it's 900, it's 1,000, it's 2,000. Well, there came a point where I realized no matter what I did, I'd put it up my nose or I'd, you know, drink it.
You know, I mean, so, money wasn't the driving force in my, in my comedy career. Then it became, that's the only skill I have, and it got to where I resented, um, the audiences. I remember sitting on a stool. I wrote, I wrote a book, and I, and this is in the book. I was sitting on a s- on a stool doing comedy. I had gotten to the point where I couldn't even stand up.
And, uh, I was in a hockey rink. They had turned everything into a comedy club back in the '80s. Right, yeah. So anyway, I'm s- sitting on a stool, 1984 or five, uh, in Grand Rapids, Michigan, [00:19:00] and packed, 500 people, and uh, uh, I couldn't say anything. I'm just sitting there. Late show, packed house, and I said, "Why are we here?
And what's the point to all this?" I mean, you could hear a pin drop. And some squeaky voice in the back, some woman goes, "We just wanna hear some jokes." And I, broke me out of it. Yeah. And I said, "You know, that's a reasonable request." "This is a comedy club." And I have... I do have them. Yeah. I do have some stuff there.
Yeah. And I ended up doing the show, and that's when the booker called my agent and said, "He's gone. He's shot, man. There's, there's... He's, he's not long for this world." Um. Mm. Uh, it was just, I couldn't understand the reason or the point to doing anything, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, I'd become a nihilist. I didn't even know that there was a name for it until I, I heard about it.
I was a believer for two or three years, and I heard Ravi Zacharias mention- Mm-hmm ... nihilism. Mm-hmm. And when he explained what it was, I went, "That's it!" That's right. [00:20:00] "That was me!" That's right. "I was a ni- There's a name for it." There, there's a name. You know? I just thought I was an A-hole.
Mike Glenn: Well, that can still be true.
That's true. And,
Jeff Allen: and they're not mutually exclusive. Right, exactly. Yeah. So anyway, um, we're out on the golf course, uh, after I just told you brevity is the... You know? So, but, uh, he starts talking ab- I said, "How do you accumulate wealth?" I think that was what I asked him. I... Obviously he could do that. And I said, "How do you learn to do that?"
Uh, and he said, "Look, man, you don't want, you don't want a lot of money." I go, "I don't?" He goes, "You can't handle what little you have, just in the short time I've known you." Uh, a lot of money would be a burden. Mm-hmm. Um, and it would... A lot of people do bad things after they lose a lot of wealth. Mm. So I, I, I wouldn't recommend you getting a lot till you learn that there's tools and things.
And he, and one of the things he said was something along, "You can't even begin to enjoy the creation till you have a relationship with the one who created it." And I thought, "That sounded New Agey." Mm. I read a lot of New Age. Right. And I thought, "Well, you know, where'd you read it?" He said, "It's in the Bible," [00:21:00] and said a couple more things.
And, and I go, "Where's that?" And he goes, "It's in the Bible." I was a voracious reader at that point, you know? I read everything I could get my hands on. And I s- finally said to him, "Stop it with the Bible." He goes, "What do you mean?" I go, "I'm an ath- I don't believe in God." I mean, and really, God's word- Mm-hmm ... I mean, kind of archaic at this point in our, you know, life.
I said, "Who reads the Bible?" He said, "Well, I actually do every day." I go, "Come on," you know. And I, and again, I, I respected the guy because of his wealth- Right ... and, and, and everything, and, and his kindness. He was really a nice guy. And he says, "All right, well, let me back up." He goes, "What's in the Bible you don't think is true?"
And I go, "Well, I've never really read the Bible." And he goes, "Then you're not an atheist, you're a moron." You know? And that's, that was the beginning of a lifelong friendship. Yeah, that's right. And I, it was like I wanted to punch him, but I would've felt I lost, I would've lost access to- That's right. ... to, to Augusta National and all these other perks that I thought knowing- Yeah
this guy would bring me. And, uh, basically, by the end of the week, we, we got to talking about stuff, and he, he said, "Look, it's [00:22:00] the most influential book in the entire world." And you can't even crack it open. Mm-hmm. That's, that's intellectually lazy and moronic. At least study it. Mm-hmm. A bunch of people have studied it- That's right
and have come to the conclusion that it's a nice book. Yeah. It's, there's some good things in it, but it's not inspired by God. Mm-hmm. You can't even do that. So at least do that. And that's when he signed me up for the Bible tapes. He goes, "Uh, Tommy Nelson out of Denton Bible teaches the Bible the way," he goes, "I think you would enjoy it.
He doesn't condescend, he doesn't talk down." So if you're asking me what I enjoy, I like pastors who don't look for the easy out- Mm-hmm ... you know, and, and, and hit the hard things, you know, at occasionally. Right. And I don't mind my pastor ca- occasionally calling men out for porn or whatever, you know? You, you know, this is what God expects of you, husbands.
Mm-hmm. You know? I don't mind that at all. Now, a lot of people I've talked to don't like it. Mm-hmm. They want to go to the, the, uh... And I don't know why Joel Osteen seems to be the, the model for this. That's right. Yeah. [00:23:00] But it is. You know? And it's funny, we just interviewed Ben Fuller on our, on our podcast, um, the singer, and I saw him at, um, in, in my research, I saw him do a, a show at San Quentin, and I said, um, "Joel Osteen wouldn't have went over too well in San Quentin," you know?
Right. Yeah. You needed a tatted up- Yeah ... um, ex-drug addict, alcoholic. You know, God uses us all in a place that we need to be. Mm-hmm. So, um, everybody has their, uh, what feeds them. But I was told, Tommy Nelson said this, and from day one, I believe this, and I, I li- I've lived for 27 years, it's Jesus and nothing else.
Mm-hmm. And if anybody says it's Jesus, but you gotta do these things- Right ... then I don't, I don't, I just can tune it out. Yeah. I mean, Alcoholics Anonymous taught me that. Take what you need, leave the rest, and don't get involved in the personalities. Yeah. And I think s- [00:24:00] too many church people get involved in the personalities and the things that they don't like.
Right. I don't, you know, uh, and initially when we started going to church here, uh, we were brand new believers. To give you an idea of where we were, you know, when Paul talks about milk as a baby- Right ... um, we went to a Methodist church, brand new believers, and this guy would clip out a Peanuts cartoon and do a moral message based on Charlie Brown that day.
And we felt that was great. That was great. You know? And didn't take long before- Yeah ... you know, there has to be something a little deeper than, than Charlie, you know? And we started seeking churches, and we had a condition. If the pastor mentioned hell, we were out- Mm-hmm ... because we, we were convinced we were going there.
Mm-hmm. Even though we had given our life to Jesus, we were still at the point where, you know, we have, we had baggage. That's right. Yeah. So we didn't want to hear about hell. We had rules, you know? So again, um, today, uh- [00:25:00] I just want biblically sound teaching, and, um, and I don't mind a c- a cultural... I don't mind the church talking about cultural issues, uh, if they're soundly rooted in- Out of-
out of scripture ... out of scripture. Yeah. So vote your, vote your Bible- Right ... is fine with me. Right. You know? I, I, I understand that. Uh, because I've had Christians, um, hammer me on social media because I was at the RNC. I was invited there- Mm-hmm ... because Rob Schneider canceled. Mm-hmm. And they reached out and called me to do a show at the RNC.
And I'm a registered independent. I've never, uh, gone out of my way to- Yeah ... support any party. I don't, I don't believe in the collective, so why would I... You know, I'm kind of an ind- you know? Right. Tell me what you, what you got. So anyway, they were hammering me all over. My family, you know, um, hammering me, you know?
I finally said to them, I go, uh, "Well, [00:26:00] give me an alternative. Are, are you aware that one party had an abortion van in front of their convention?" Mm-hmm. I mean, that's okay... I mean, you can- Yeah ... you can blindly turn your head away from, from- Right ... that. My father, who was a lifelong union Chicago Democrat- Mm-hmm
he told me, "If you don't vote Democrat, I'm tearing up your birth certificate." You know? So-
Mike Glenn: Well, in- When Clinton- ... in Alabama, the Democrat was the only party. Well- There was, there was no Republican Party when I was growing up. Well, that was it.
Jeff Allen: And then, and then he gets to Arizona, and then Clinton, um, is Clinton.
Mm-hmm. And '96 hits around, and I just started getting kind of involved in this, and I said, uh, "So you're vo- you're voting for Clinton?" He goes, "No, I'm not. Any man that would do that to his wife in public, I can't imagine what he'd do to the country in private." Yeah. Right. Very wise, astute- Right ... you know, on, on character.
And, uh, I said, "So you're voting Republican?" He goes, "Ugh, not, not over your dead, my dead body." He goes, "I would never vote Republican." So he just quit voting. Yeah. [00:27:00] You know? But, um, so that's kind of the way I look at it. I just kind of go, you know, and, and believe me, with Trump, oh my gosh. I... It's at another level of...
I had to talk my son off the ledge. And I go, "Son, are you aware that he was president for four years already and your, and your life didn't end?" Right. What do you think it's gonna take now- What do you think it's gonna take now that he doesn't have to worry about reelection and suck it- ... now he's gonna go into hyperdrive, you know?
I said, "He doesn't make you laugh?" He goes, "Oh, Dad, I, I never listen to him." And I go, and I go, "It's... that's back to the- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah ... I never read it." Right. Yeah. I said, "Well, watch one of his rallies and tell me. If he doesn't make you laugh, I mean, come on." Yeah. I mean, and understand- Can't, can't do it ... a lot of
Mike Glenn: it's
Jeff Allen: just hyperbole.
Mike Glenn: Oh, yeah. You know? Yeah. He's not serious. Yeah. When, uh, when, when you read the Bible, what's the funniest story?
Jeff Allen: Oh, I'm telling you, when I got saved- Yeah ... I got saved through the fir- Ecclesiastes 1:1. First sermon I ever heard- Meaningless, meaningless. All in life is meaning- or vanity of vanities Vanity, right, yeah
[00:28:00] um, that, that verse summed up my eight-year search for meaning- Right ... right there. And I felt if that truth, that deep, profound truth that spoke to me- Mm-hmm ... in my living room- Mm-hmm ... was in the Bible, there must be other things in the Bible. Right. So Job made me laugh. When I started studying Job, the whole first-
third of the way, because it's just... You know, it's one thing that your cows get hoof and mouth. Yeah. It's another thing when fireballs come out of the sky and torch your cows. Yeah. When the field hands come in- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... and they go, "Hey, we're out of here." That's right. You, you've ticked somebody off, man.
That's right. So anyway, that's, I found... And then, uh, to me, it was funny. I was at a church once, and I said, I got on stage, and I, I, and I was never hired to do theologic- Yeah. ... exegesis. I was hired to do comedy and tell my story. So anyway, I, I said, "You know, when, when you look at Job, it gives you a [00:29:00] glimpse, uh, behind the curtain, and I don't see an adversarial between God and Satan.
I saw God and Satan sitting over a cup of coffee going- Yeah ... They're all... Look what you... They're all losers. That's right. And he go, and God says, "Well, I got one." Yeah. You know? "I got a guy." You go, "Yeah, but you've given him everything." Yeah. He goes, "All right, we'll take it away, but you can't kill
Mike Glenn: him." Yeah.
Jeff Allen: You can't take his life, but you can make his life pretty darn
Mike Glenn: miserable.
Yeah. So anyway, that's- Yeah, when, when, uh, when Moses, w- when, when, when God said that, "Your people," and Moses says, "I didn't give birth to any of them." I never, that's, I never heard it put that way. Yeah, yeah. That, yeah. That's what he said. Yeah. He said, "I didn't, I didn't give birth to any of them." Whoa, whoa, whoa.
That's right. I was over here in the field. You told me. I've been celibate. Yeah. Yeah. So there are some hilarious things, uh- Right ... in, in, in the scripture that, that, that preachers need to develop, de- del- the eye for. Uh, what's, uh, what is the [00:30:00] rule that, that, uh, pastors
Jeff Allen: often break? I'm not really one to ta- I, you know, 'cause I only listen to the ones I like.
Yeah. And then, um- And, and they don't break the rules. I, I don't know if there are rules. Are there rules? Well, g- give me some rules, and I'll tell you. Uh, a- about how people listen. Okay, for instance- Well, I'll tell you one thing, pounding a point too many times. All right, we got it. We got it. Yeah. We got it.
You know? But I, I, if, if I'm listening online, I just move on. Um, uh, I like my pastor, um, at one church. He's young, and, uh, he's self-deprecating. Uh, he's animated. He's entertaining. Mm-hmm. But he's also very, very sound biblically, and that's, that's the key for me. And you
Mike Glenn: can... And, and, and here's, here's what I want to underline here.
You can do all of that. Yeah. Yeah. You can be easy to listen to, entertaining, and theologically deep at the same time. Absolutely. [00:31:00] Entertaining is not ... You know, it used to be it, it, if you talked to some preachers, "Well, he's just an entertainer." It was a dismissive-
Jeff Allen: Really? ...
Mike Glenn: way of saying that he's not a serious preacher.
Yeah. And, and my thing was, nobody, nobody pays attention unless there's some kind of hook or laugh or something for me to grab hold and remember. Absolutely. Jesus used humor all the time.
Jeff Allen: Absolutely. I'd love to. I mean, I, I have images of Jesus, like when Peter said, "No, man, I'm with you." Yeah. And Jesus go, "Pfft."
Yeah. I, I g- I like to think he went pfft, you know? You know. And that's the thing I used to say about the difference between the generations now, is the texting, because it's hard. There's a difference between texting the words, "Yeah, right"- Yeah ... and then saying the words, "Yeah, right." Yeah. I mean, there's ... And you need to be involved and, and commu- Yeah.
The, the first
Mike Glenn: couple of times I was texting, I got in trouble all the time- Yeah ... because you can't ... The smirk doesn't go across on, on- Yeah. And my manager and I have had- [00:32:00]
Jeff Allen: Yeah ... you know, "Do you even read these things- ... like, before you, before you hit send?" You know. "What did, what did you just say to me?" That's right.
And, and he, and he goes, "Oh, I was just saying." I go- Yeah ... "That's not the way it came off." Right. Yeah. You know. But, uh, yeah, as far as pastors, um, you know, I've been blessed. Uh, I started at Christ Community with Scotty Smith, who was great. Uh, Rick White at Peoples. I loved Rick. Played golf with Rick. He's all red-faced.
My ... I could tell he wanted to break a club. I said, "Break one. Go ahead, man." I said, "I'll still tithe." Yeah. I said, "You're, you're, you're with, w- you're with one of your congregants who actually- That's right. Yeah ... understands how aggravating this game is. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I've been, uh, a, a bl- and then the ones you, obviously the ones you find online are, are the ones that, um, uh, either people will send you- Mm-hmm
because it, it spoke to them in a, in a, in a certain way or ... Uh, Matt Chandler down in, [00:33:00] uh, uh, Village Church. In Texas? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Da- uh, Texas. Um, I, I listened to him daily, uh, for almost two years. Mm-hmm. Um, I love the way he ... He was as close to a stand-up comic- Mm-hmm. I o- I often wondered if he was a big Brian Regan fan, because there was a lot of cadences in there that reminded me- Yeah
of Brian Regan. Yeah. Um- I hadn't thought of that, but yeah ... and I did work with Matt once. He went out when Tommy, um, Tommy, uh, had some depression issues and stopped teaching Song of Solomon. And he, uh ... And Matt went out in his place, and I, and I, at Liberty, I, uh, I opened for Matt. But didn't get a chance to spend much time with him.
But, uh, uh, again, I don't know if that gives you an idea of what, what ... You know, and again, there's- How many tens of millions of believers in this country and everybody's drawn to, uh, we were just, we do small group at our house on Tuesdays. We were just talking about, um, our pastor opened his sermon with a, with an email, an angry [00:34:00] email that somebody sent him.
And he realized they lost five or six people that day because they thought it was inappropriate that he would air that. And he even repented the next Sunday, came out. He goes, "I, I read it between services and it angered me, and I opened with that. I should have never have done that." Yeah. Yeah, that's- Um, about, and all it was was a- an email about how loud - Yeah.
You know, I used to work with Gaither, and people would come to me and go, "Tell Bill to turn it down." Turn it down. Right, yeah. I'd go, "Yeah, yeah. Hey, Bill." Good man, yeah. You know, Edna up in row 74 wants, wants you, you know, it's a little loud for her. Could just, could you turn it down? You know. But, uh, again, it's t- it's the, the, the, the process of church versus the, the, the ac- you know, the, the substance of it.
And, and I'm into the substance, not the process. The music, the worship, I enjoy it. Right. But it's not what I'm really there for. Yeah. I don't sing. That's who I am, yeah. Um, and I, uh, had, had [00:35:00] my wife not enjoy it so much, I probably would come in 10 minutes before the,
Mike Glenn: the, the message. Yeah.
Jeff Allen: You know.
Mike Glenn: I got a couple musician friends who will come in 10 minutes before the sermon.
I go, "Why? What, what's this?" "You guys sing too much." Yeah. I said, "You make your living." "Yeah, I don't come off the road. I don't want to sing anymore."
Jeff Allen: Yeah. Well, that's it. Yeah. I, you know, and again- Yeah ... it's, it's, uh, you know, AA, you know, again, AA taught me, you know- Yeah ... you take what you want, leave the rest.
Yeah. And, uh, I do, I've done that with church. I've, I've... And it was very funny when I first moved here, they, uh, Christ Community had a, um, a seminar on anger management. And Tammy used to say my rage was God's gift to the world. Your anger was God's gift to the world. I mean, I had a, I had a, I had a problem.
I s- you know, it's dissipated now, uh, a lot. Yeah. But, you know, but that I knew something about. So I go, "Huh, I think I'll go down there." So I raised my hand, you know. I, I got into AA because I, I spanked my, beat my six-month-old [00:36:00] son. Yeah. I mean, I was drunk, and I, and I raged out because he- And he wouldn't be quiet
wouldn't stop crying. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so anyway, um, I share that, you know, and I'm 20 years removed from it. Mm-hmm. You know? But still, it's a powerful story for men, because I've had dozens of men come up and say, "Yeah, I did that." Yeah. You know? I mean, it, it's, sadly, it's not uncommon. And anyway, nobody would sit with me.
I mean, I was just sitting there by myself. They broke into groups. Pastor walks over, and I forget who the, it was one of the associates comes over. Might have been Scott Raleigh. And he said, uh- Yeah, you're, you're 12 step? I go, "Yeah." He goes, "Yeah, we're church. We're not that honest." Yeah. That's it. He goes, "It is- Yeah.
Yeah. He goes, "I had a feeling. You- Yeah ... you're new to church." I go, "Yeah, probably within a, yeah, a year." Yeah. Not even a year in. He goes, "Yeah, we don't, we don't open our, uh, seminar swift with that kind of honesty." That's it. Takes months to get there. Oh, yeah. You know? Yeah, years sometimes. Yeah, [00:37:00] once
Mike Glenn: we- Yeah.
So you go southern, come see us. We don't, we don't mean it. Yeah. Well, Tammy said that to me, my wife. She goes, "
Jeff Allen: I can't compete with these." I go, "Compete? That's the way you look at..." She goes, "Jeff, they're, they're so together." And- Yeah ... it was when we got into our first small group, when we, we, church really began for us.
We- That's right, yeah ... because the, the walls came down. Small groups, that's right. And, and, and we got really open and honest with- Yeah, I tell
Mike Glenn: people all the time, y- y- you would, you'd be amazed at the amount of pain sitting on the pew with you. Yeah. And you just don't know the story. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, Jeff, you have honored me by being here today, and I appreciate, uh, you joining us on the Engage Church Network podcast. This is Jeff Allen. He is one of the funniest men that is out there. You can find him on YouTube and all the other places, uh, where you can- I'm on YouTube? Yeah, you're on YouTube.
Whoa. Yeah. I've arrived. You ha- you are there, brother. I am. And, uh- At Dry Bar. At Dry Bar. Yeah. And all the l- all the places where you look, he's there. He's hilarious. He's well worth, uh, well worth your [00:38:00] attention. I'm Mike Glenn. Thanks for being with us.
Thanks for tuning in to the Engage Church Network podcast. We exist to train healthy and skilled leaders for congregations throughout Middle Tennessee. If today's episode helped you, share it with a fellow leader, and don't forget to visit engagechurchnetwork.com for more ways to grow.
