Lyle Phillips on Church Planting and its Challenges
Pastor Lyle Phillips (Legacy Church, Nashville) joins Mike Glenn to trace a 20-year journey from the mission field in Mozambique and Andhra Pradesh—rescuing children and serving the poorest—to planting Legacy in East Nashville, and dreaming toward a 12-city church-planting vision.
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Lyle Philips: You were in ministry and missionary work for 20 years. Tell me about that. I'm in ministry. I've been in ministry now- I, I've, I've- ... for almost 20 years. Yes. But, but- So prior to being a church planter- Mm-hmm ... which we planted in 2016- Mm-hmm ... I was a missionary to Mozambique, Africa-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Lyle Philips: and Andhra Pradesh, India.
Okay. So I was in Mozambique for about a year and a half, almost two years, if you count the time I went back and forth, uh, towards the end, and then I moved to India and, um, I spent about five years working there, give or take.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Lyle Philips: And, uh, three, four of those was, like, full time on the ground, always there- Mm-hmm
living there. I had a house there. [00:01:00] Andhra Pradesh. And that is where? Southeast India. Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I worked some with pastors, uh, church planters, uh, but mostly the ministry was focused on, uh, children-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ... uh,
Lyle Philips: and the extremely poor, the Dalit people- Right, right ... untouchables. Mm-hmm. And then we were rescuing kids from human trafficking.
Okay. So that's what- Yeah, we have- ... I was doing there ... we have
Mike Glenn: several friends in the area who, who do, who do the same thing, so. There's a lot of need there. Yeah. Yeah. There's actually, what, more people in slavery now than during the height of the transatlantic
Lyle Philips: slavery- Yes, sir ... at, uh, um- Yes, sir. That's my understanding and, you know, most of the statistics that I was exposed to prior to going to India- Mm-hmm
I found to be, uh, greatly shortsighted. Like, when I got there, I realized- It was wor- it was worse ... that the situation was- It was worse ... way worse than anybody understood. Than,
Mike Glenn: yeah. Yeah. And then that leads you then to East Nashville?
Lyle Philips: Yeah. So the only reason I moved to Nashville was [00:02:00] because this was the airport that I used.
There, so- I had no intention on being a pastor, a church planter or anything.
Mike Glenn: You weren't, you weren't gonna be a musician?
Lyle Philips: I mean- No ... everybody else in town- I don't, I don't play
Mike Glenn: or
Lyle Philips: sing. Everybody
Mike Glenn: else in
Lyle Philips: town is, can play, write or sing. I can't. And- I do dabble in the writing some. Yeah. Like, our church has put out worship music and, uh, we're signed to Capitol.
Mm-hmm. And so I've written on a couple of songs, but I am by no means a great songwriter. Yeah. I just, I'm from a very small village, I like to say, in West Kentucky. Mm-hmm. Sacramento, population 600.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Lyle Philips: So that's why I moved to Nashville, 'cause I was driving two hours to get to BNA. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. They're, all that whole part of Kentucky is, is a, is a client of, of, of B&A with that kind of stuff.
Exactly. There's no airports there. So tell me about Legacy. Yes, sir. Is, uh, Legacy has, uh, on its, uh... as one of its goals, missions, is to establish churches in major- Yes ... metropolitan areas- [00:03:00] Yes ... of the world. So tell me about that dream and where did it come from and-
Lyle Philips: Absolutely. So, um, it's gonna seem a little weird, but I hope that's all right.
Oh, yeah,
Mike Glenn: you won't be the
Lyle Philips: first weird thing in this room. Trust me. So as I said, um, I moved to Nashville in 2011. We church-planted in 2016. Mm-hmm. So until we were a church, we were a missions base, and what that essentially meant was on Sunday evenings we gathered for worship and teaching, which was all missions-focused.
Mm-hmm. And then on Tuesday night we'd go out and serve the poor and the homeless. Mm-hmm. So we had no intent of it becoming a local church that I would pastor.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Lyle Philips: But, uh, that's how we got started. But if you walk like a duck, quack like a duck, you're a duck. Eventually. We were like, "Hold on. We're baptizing people."
Mm-hmm. "We're receiving communion. Uh, we're [00:04:00] preaching the gospel. We're gathering weekly." Yeah, that'll get you convicted as a church. Yeah, we're like, "We're a church." But you know what was interesting, uh, is that everybody who came to our church were people who didn't like church- Oh, yeah ... initially. And then when we said we were church planting, all of those people left.
Mm-hmm. So when we started in 2016, we started with 80 people, and the only reason I went to East Nashville, uh, was because one day I was on a prayer walk and I sensed that God was asking me, "You know, if I was walking the streets of Nashville, where do you think I would go?" And I said, "I think you'd probably be in East Nashville, Jesus- Mm-hmm
because they need a lot of help over there." And, uh, my sense then was, "I need to go to East Nashville. Maybe that's where God's calling me to go." And so long story short, we planted there in 2016. Now, how we got to the whole 12-city vision-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Lyle Philips: is on my 35th birthday, I [00:05:00] was going on another prayer walk. I don't know about you, but I just- Mm-hmm
feel that God speaks to me very clearly when I'm walking and talking- Mm-hmm ... with him. So on my 35th birthday I was in Dallas, Texas, and, um, I was leaving my hotel to go on a prayer walk and, um, I had this lovely interaction with the barista on my way out of the hotel. And, um- She was an African American lady, me being a white guy.
I just thought, "You know, that interaction was so pleasant." Mm-hmm. "I wish that happened more often in my city, in Nashville." Mm-hmm. 'Cause it doesn't seem like there's always a ton of diversity everywhere I go. Mm-hmm. And so I'm just talking to the Lord, and I say, "Man, that was an awesome interaction. I loved that, and I want more of that for my city."
And I sensed that God spoke to me and said, "This is a great city, isn't it?" And I [00:06:00] felt like, "You're up to something, God." Mm. And I said, "Yeah, this is a great city. I really like Dallas." And He said, "Would you like to plant something here one day?" And I said, "Well, I don't know, God. You tell me. Do you want me to plant something here one day?"
And then He began to speak to me. He said, "Do you remember what I spoke to you 13 years ago?" Now, 13 years prior to that moment, I was living in Austin, Texas, and God was speaking to me about an apostolic mandate on my life. Mm-hmm. Um, and what I mean by that, I think, is just church planting in different cities, so I'm not trying to be weird about that.
But I said, "Yeah, I do remember you speaking that to me, God, 13 years ago." And He said, "You remember you went and told your pastor about it." I said, "Yeah, I do." He said, "What did your pastor say?" Well, when I told my pastor at, like, 22 years old that there was an apostolic mandate on my life- ... he laughed at me.
Yeah. He says, "Go s- go sit down and you'll g- [00:07:00] it'll pass." "Go mop some floors." And he said to me, "You know, when you're 35 years old, I think you'll step into that calling." Mm-hmm. I don't know why he said that- Mm-hmm ... but it was my 35th birthday, and God said, "Happy birthday to you." Mm. "It's time to step into that calling."
Then He asked me another question. He said, "Do you remember what I told you 12 years ago?" And I knew exactly what He was talking about. I said, "Yes, I do." I remember being in prayer in my parents' church in the middle of a corn field and a bean field in Calhoun, Kentucky, and God was speaking to me about 12 cities.
And He didn't reveal all those cities to me at the time, but He said, "This will be your first city of 12." And I said, "Well, Lord, this is not really much of a city. It's more like a village, but okay." Mm-hmm. So fast-forward now my 35th birthday. He said, "Do you remember what I spoke to you 12 years ago?" I said, "Yes, I do.
I remember you speaking to me about 12 cities." [00:08:00] And he said, "All right. I wanna talk to you about those cities today." And so I knew he had spoken to me about Dallas, and of course, that caused my heart to panic 'cause I said, "God, is Nashville one of the cities? I live in Pastor in Nashville. Are you calling me to move to Dallas?
Am I about to go back upstairs to my hotel room and tell my wife- ... 'Hey, I know it's my 35th birthday and I'm about to go preach at a conference, but surprise- Mm-hmm ... God spoke to me on my prayer walk. We're moving here to Dallas.'" He said, "Well, I want you to ask me for the city of Nashville." And I said, "Okay, well."
So in prayer I'm like, "Lord, I'm asking you for Nashville." And He said, "Yes, Nashville's one of the cities." And then He continued to speak to me that day about those 12 cities. Mm-hmm. Calhoun, Kentucky; Nashville, Tennessee; Dallas, Texas; Los Angeles, California; Seattle, Washington- Yeah, but you, you read that,
Mike Glenn: you read that list and one of these things doesn't belong here.
One of these things is not like the others, so- Calhoun? So how does Calhoun, Kentucky fit in this 12 metropolitan areas of, uh, major, uh, [00:09:00] uh, cities in, uh, throughout the
Lyle Philips: world? I think that's because it's my Jerusalem, you know? Yeah, it's just,
Mike Glenn: it's just where you start. Yeah. It's where I
Lyle Philips: started and, um, I heard a pastor one time say in Mozambique, Africa, he said, "The reason why," and I'm not sure I can prove this, but he said, "The reason why Jesus sent the apostles to Jerusalem first was because it was the place of their greatest mistake."
I don't know if that's true or not, but I thought, you know, that's true for me. Yeah. True for me- Yeah, you gotta re- ... you know?
Mike Glenn: Yeah. That, that, that, I like that. You, you gotta redeem- Right? ... gotta redeem e- every part of it. Yeah, that's-
Lyle Philips: And that's where I was a drug addict ... yeah, yeah. That's where I almost failed and didn't graduate high school.
Mm. Mm-hmm. That's where, um, I moved to because I got kicked out of another school after being arrested on school property. Um, I mean, I went through a lot- In that area. But it was because of that little church in the middle of that bean field that I'm saved today, because there were a ton of incredible [00:10:00] people praying for me- Mm-hmm
whenever I was lost and far from God. So I think maybe that's why Calhoun is in the list. Oh, yeah. I would certainly put it in the center of the
Mike Glenn: it's the center of your world whether you want it to or not. Right. I'm a country kid, man. Yeah. From
Lyle Philips: West Kentucky, just former drug addict, alcoholic, just a terrible person when Jesus found me.
But here I am today in Nashville, Tennessee, and my passion is to, uh, raise up healthy churches- Mm-hmm ... that raise up healthy churches.
Mike Glenn: Now, there's two, there's two interesting aspects to your work. One is the school, and one is the feeding 100,000 children- Yes, sir ... a day. Yes, sir. Did, did I read that right?
100,000
Lyle Philips: children- You read it right. Okay. That's ultimately the goal. Okay. Yeah. So the school, we've gotten that started. We have a pre-K through sixth grade school- Mm-hmm ... in East Nashville. Uh, just building on academic rigor and biblical worldview. Mm-hmm. And praise God, 100% of our student body test on average three grade levels above their current grade level.
Wow. So God's really blessed us. We have an [00:11:00] incredible school there with an awesome faculty. Almost 50 students are a part of that. So that's the foundation of that vision. Mm-hmm. Now, with the 100,000, that really stems from my time on the mission field in Mozambique- Mm-hmm ... serving a woman named Heidi Baker.
I don't know if you've ever heard of her or not. Hmm. But she and her ministry, Iris Global, have established almost- Okay, now her
Mike Glenn: and Iris Global
Lyle Philips: I've
Mike Glenn: heard of.
Lyle Philips: Yes, sir. So okay,
Mike Glenn: she is the founder of that. Okay. She and her
Lyle Philips: husband Rolland, and they've planted about 10,000 churches in Mozambique, and their vision is a million kids.
They wanna feed a million kids every day. And so when God first began to speak to me about a ministry as a missionary, he spoke to me about feeding children. Mm-hmm. And so that's where that dream comes from.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, and I think that's one of the things that, that I tell pastors and churches when, when I'm working with them now is find the point of pain in your community.
Wow. Okay? And start, start there. Uh, it, it's called the [00:12:00] Mother Teresa rule. Do- show up, do what nobody el- wants to do in a place where nobody el- wants to do it, and the world won't say a word to you- Wow ... uh, while you're doing it. But they will end up giving you a platform because of what you've done.
They'll end up giving you a hearing because of what you do. Oh, you're the church that does this. Uh, because we- we're in a time where ministry and message, uh... When I was growing up, we all had the Billy Graham School of Evangelism, where you, where you s- the Bible says. Now people don't listen. Now they watch what you do, and they watch how you live, and then I will might listen to you- Wow
based on what I see. Yes, sir. So I think that's why this vision of feeding children, uh, in the community where your, where your congregations are and where you're planting churches is so, is such a vital aspect to, to the success of the work that, that you're talking about.
Lyle Philips: By God's grace alone- [00:13:00] Yeah ... will we accomplish it.
Yeah. We're only in Nashville right now. I mean, we have a partnership in Calhoun- Yeah ... uh, with an incredible church there that's- Yeah, but, but it wasn't
Mike Glenn: too long ago you were just
Lyle Philips: in Calhoun. I know. Yeah. That's so- It's true ... that's, I mean. It's true. And London is one of the cities. Mm-hmm. And we just did an event in London a few months ago.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Lyle Philips: And we were shocked. Now, you talk about
Mike Glenn: event. You're, you know,
Lyle Philips: but- Yeah, like a worship night. Okay. And that's just us putting some seed in the soil. Right. Letting... Meeting with pastors, meeting with leaders, letting them know we don't know when, we don't know how. Mm-hmm. We just know that God has given us a heart for this city, so we wanna come in, we wanna serve.
We'd love to do an event that we'd love to invite you to, ask you to participate in annually. So we did our first a few months ago in London, and we were shocked by the turnout. Mm-hmm. Shocked how?
Mike Glenn: Shocked nobody showed up or shocked- Well, that was the fear. Or a lot of people showed up.
Lyle Philips: There was [00:14:00] about 1,000 people that showed up, so we were- That, that-
very astonished ... that's fabulous. Yeah. That is fabulous. God's really blessed us with, um, a YouTube audience- Mm-hmm ... which happened as an accident during COVID. Mm-hmm. Uh, we just started filming, uh, prayer and worship and putting it out, and obviously a lot of people were doing that. But for whatever reason, God gave us some grace to reach some new people, and I think that's one of the ways that people have found us in other countries is- Mm-hmm
"Oh, I watch you guys on YouTube." Th- through, through the YouTube. And I mean, I think it's a blessing to use it- Mm-hmm ... especially when you use it, um, with the right
Mike Glenn: heart. Yeah, when we started getting into social media and YouTube and all that, I started getting emails from, uh, Sri Lanka and, uh, Singapore and that kind of stuff.
And I went back to my elders and I said, "Listen, y'all gotta pay me more. I'm international now." So Yes.
Lyle Philips: That's
Mike Glenn: right. Yes. I have yet to
Lyle Philips: use that with my board- Yeah ... but I'm going to now. Yeah, yes
Mike Glenn: sir. You gotta [00:15:00] pay, I'm, I'm, I'm internationally well-known. Uh- That's right ... so with that- Internationally
Lyle Philips: acclaimed.
Can I add that to my bio? I'm writing my first book right now, and I'm wondering if I can put that in the blurb. I would certainly get it in
Mike Glenn: there so AI picks it up. So when, uh, when you start, when the burden for a church plant, um, how, how do, how... What's the process that you use for the, for
Lyle Philips: the planting?
Well, I would say that I didn't have a blueprint, and whatever I did have, no one should borrow it. Because not only was I a reluctant church planter- Yeah ... but I would say when you hold up what we did next to the best practices of the day- Mm-hmm ... uh, we failed in every category. So the only reason, uh, that I moved here, like I said, was for the airport, and the only reason I really planted a church was because of the heart of compassion that God gave me for the [00:16:00] people who were a part of it.
Mike Glenn: Okay.
Lyle Philips: It has worked- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... surprisingly- Yeah ... I, I think, uh, in the face of all of our weaknesses in leadership. Mm-hmm. Because when we first started, like I said, we told people we were gonna plant, and then everybody who was a part of the community departed.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Lyle Philips: They, "We don't wanna be a part of a church.
We just wanna- Well- ... come
Mike Glenn: out
Lyle Philips: for worship." Well, but
Mike Glenn: i- in their defense- Sure ... everybody in, uh, in Nashville who gets a synthesizer, a synthesizer- Mm-hmm ... starts a church. Uh, and they're, they're in everybody's garage, and everybody loves to worship- Yes ... until you have to do the things that churches have to do.
Right, right. Like organize- Yes ... hold people accountable-
Lyle Philips: Yes ...
Mike Glenn: uh, get engaged, give stuff, and then everybody... So I, I tell people in, in Nashville there are these gypsies that float around from congregation to congregation. Yes. And, uh- I've met some of them ... and so what, well, whatever, whatever hip church is, and I can, you know, I can t- tell you the [00:17:00] history- Yes
of, of what I've seen. They float from this church to that church. So I'm not surprised at all, uh, of when, uh, when you said, "Hey, this is what's gonna happen," and it got off, it got past the emotional connection of wor- of a worship center. Now, now you and I know that worship is certainly more than the emotional engagement.
Yes. But, uh, once it got moving toward a real commitment, then they- They slide off Yes, sir And you shouldn't be surprised. That happened to Jesus all the time. I mean, we got stories all the time of people just turning around and walking off- ... when they realized what he was calling
Lyle Philips: them to do. Yes, yes. Uh, well, that, that was the experience that we had early.
Mm-hmm. Thankfully, I think about 80 people showed up to our, our plant- Mm-hmm ... when we got started, and, um, as I mentioned, that was in 2016, and we had no idea what we were doing. You know, I didn't know of any church planting networks in America. [00:18:00] Mm-hmm. I didn't know any except for those that my dad may have been a part of in some way or another.
And so I didn't reach out to church networks for help- Mm-hmm ... because as a missionary, what I had already been told, uh, so many times was, "Oh, the church in America is asleep. Uh, no one's doing the stuff. No one's actually, you know, living the Bible." Well, well, that, that is mostly true.
Mike Glenn: Okay? But it's not completely true.
Right. And I, I've now learned
Lyle Philips: that obviously- That's right, yeah, yeah ... as, as a church planter, uh, in America. But I, so I came, I came here in a sense with a distaste, uh, for the American Church because that was what I had always heard- Mm-hmm ... from missionaries in the Third World. Mm-hmm. Like, "We're the ones who are radical."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. "
Lyle Philips: We're the ones who are obedient." And, and, you know, obviously now I see there's a lot of fallacy- Yeah ... in thinking like that because it's [00:19:00] absolutely untrue. There's a lot of people over here who are radical and on fire and obedient and all that. Who are, who are crazily committed. Uh, absolutely. Yeah.
And, and doing what you guys are doing- Yeah ... here as part of this network. But I didn't know about that. Yeah. And because I'd been tainted with that understanding, I didn't reach out to anybody for help. Mm-hmm. You know, what I should have done is look to leaders, look to fathers- Mm-hmm ... looked to church planting networks and said, "Hey, can you please help me?"
Because the only understanding of church that I have, um, in my saved life is number one, which is a church in the middle of a bean field in Calhoun- Mm-hmm ... Kentucky, and number two, which is, um, a church in Mozambique- Mm-hmm ... uh, which is not relevant at all- Yeah ... to churches in Nashville.
Mike Glenn: Well, both of, both of them are good models for where they are.
Yes, sir. And for, for culturally appropriate gospel, uh, living. Both of those churches serve their communities really well.
Lyle Philips: Do you think it's a little silly then that pastors and church planters compete like, like we tend to do? Oh, listen- Because- Listen ... why would that [00:20:00] Starbucks- You can have- ... compete with this Starbucks?
Right, exactly right. They're not gonna reach the same people. Not only,
Mike Glenn: not only that, not only that, but you could put two churches right next to each other- Right ... and both of them be successful if they were faithful to their unique calling. That's the context we wanna talk about. Yes. Trevor and I were joking around a minute ago 'cause I've got a s- my saying is there's a reason Baskin-Robbins has 31 flavors.
Okay? What Baskin-Robbins has decided, you're gonna get ice cream. Right, right. We don't care what flavor it is. Right. But you're gonna walk out of here with ice cream. Yes. Okay? What the church in North America has to decide is you're gonna get Jesus. Mm-hmm. We don't care what flavor it is. If it's high church, uh, with the, with the choir in the back balcony, we can throw that pitch.
Yes. If it's Legacy Church- Yes ... where we're gonna meet and figure out how to f- how to feed 100,000 [00:21:00] kids- Yep ... or Darren's church, where we're gonna figure out how to get people out of slavery or respond to earthquakes around the world, th- then we're gonna, we can do that. Yes. Okay? I love this. Now, that's, that's what you have to do.
I love this. And then you have to understand the congregation, the community you're in. Uh, most churches are totally unaware of how the chur- how the community changes. Mm. And that's how you'll end up with a Caucasian church in the middle of a Hispanic community or, uh- Mm ... a African American church in the middle of a Korean community, because nobody was paying attention to what was going on outside.
Mm. You know? Then find the place of pain in that community. Match the gifts to that place of pain, and there's your mission- Mm ... for that community, and the community will say, "That's the church that does." Here's something interesting. Talking to the mayor of- So good ... here's, talking to the mayor of [00:22:00] Franklin.
I said, "What keeps you up at night? What burdens you about what you know?" What, what do you think his answer was? Hmm. I don't have
Lyle Philips: any idea.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Now, understand, uh, y- just to give you some context, uh, Williamson County is the wealthiest county in, in- That's why I don't have any idea ... in, uh, in Tennessee. I'm reflecting on that reality- Okay.
All right ... and I'm thinking- Okay. You ready? ... "What in the
Lyle Philips: world
Mike Glenn: could keep him up at night?" Suicide. Wow. Suicide. Men between the ages of 35 and 50. No kidding. Suicide.
Lyle Philips: Suicide is a problem- Mm-hmm ... in Williamson County. Mm-hmm. I had no idea. I didn't get the
Mike Glenn: promotion. Mm. Uh, you know, life didn't turn out the way I thought it was supposed to.
Mm. I'm in debt, and I'll never get out. I'm not as successful- I'm, I'm not as successful ... as, uh, my dad was- Yeah ... or whatever it might be, but they- Yeah, and I'm worth more to my family dead than alive Wow. [00:23:00] That's incredibly sad. Yeah, yeah. I had no idea about that. And, and see, well see now you wouldn't know- Mm
unless you went and asked and started doing. Yes. So what I, what I encourage pastors to do is know the mayor, walk around, hear the community and that kind of stuff. And that point of pain- Mm ... and it may be we have 100,000 people- Yes ... uh, who are hungry. Yes. Or we have, uh, a local school that, where nobody's at reading level, uh, and that kind of stuff.
Mm. And so we'll step in, no agenda, we're here to serve you, and from that begin the gospel conversation. I love that. Yeah. That's incredible. And so, yeah. Very, very, very simple. Uh, and but something you can, uh, you can adapt to about, about every cre- uh, uh, situation you're in. So, uh, you're gonna be planting around the world and that kind of stuff.
One, what are the next steps for you? Mm-hmm. To plant in another city? Mm. Or for where [00:24:00] we are today? To, I'm just from where you are right now. Yes. You're getting ready to... This is a church plant in, in s- in South, right? We are. Which is- We're planting in Franklin right
Lyle Philips: now ... which
Mike Glenn: is
Lyle Philips: right over- Right ... right over there.
We're- Yeah ... we're just a stone's throw from where we're gathering- Mm-hmm ... right now every Sunday night. Mm-hmm. Um, so we officially launch October 12th, which is about five, six weeks from today. Where right now you're in the soft opening kind of stuff- Yep ... of that? Yep. Mm-hmm. And, uh, we have been able to gather at Aspen Grove Christian Church.
Mm-hmm. Incredible, uh, church community there that has allowed us to gather there on Sunday evenings. Um, so- Good for them. Yeah. Good for them. Yeah. Super, they've been super kind to us- Mm-hmm ... and very hospitable. Um, which was nice to have that experience- Mm-hmm ... on this side. Mm-hmm. Uh, because we've been doing that for years for other churches- Mm-hmm
in, uh, our church in East Nashville on Main Street. Um- Again, a,
Mike Glenn: a, a again, you know, folks need to understand another church's success doesn't take anything- That's [00:25:00] right ... away from
Lyle Philips: you. That's right. Y- I don't know if you, uh, have met Pastor Noah Heron yet.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Lyle Philips: Uh, leads a church called The Way Church.
Right. And they just recently moved into, um- A hall, uh, on the south side of the city. But prior to that they were gathering in our first church- Ah, okay ... which we still own. It's our headquarters- Right ... for our staff, and we have a sanctuary there which'll hold about 200 comfortable.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Lyle Philips: And they maximized that facility before they moved to where they are now.
Mm-hmm. And they met there for a couple of years, and I was so happy to see them succeed. Sure. 'Cause I, I've never felt, uh, threatened by another church's success in that sense. Now, there was a day in which I was not as mature as I am today- Well, yeah ... where I did, but watching their church, for instance, thrive blessed my heart because I knew, like, we have cultural distinctives.
Mm-hmm. Like, someone who's gonna love my church may not necessarily love that church- Well, well, we hope, yeah ... and vice versa. [00:26:00] There's, there's no threat to one another. No. Let's
Mike Glenn: celebrate- No ... and bless. Because the people they're reaching you wouldn't reach. Exactly. And, uh, and the people- And, and that's a blessing
that you're reaching they won't reach. And yes, that is indeed- That's, that's a blessing ... I got to where I was finally comfortable enough to sit down with people and go, "Tell me what you're looking for." Mm. "Well, we're looking for that." And I would say to them, "That's not us. Okay? Well, I love you and I'd love for you to go here, but that's not us.
You're going to be frustrated every Sunday you show up." Mm. And we're- 'Cause that ain't us ... and we're eventually gonna get frustrated with you. Mm. But I know who does church the way that you wanna do church. I know them, and they're a good friend of mine. I'm gonna call them and tell them you're on the way, and, uh, you will love going to church over there And I, and some of my friends now coming to me and go, "You know, when you told us to go to another church," I said, "That was the best thing you ever said."
"Yeah, I know." That's awesome. "I didn't, I didn't cook the way you wanted me to [00:27:00] cook. Wasn't ever gonna do that."
Lyle Philips: Right, right, right. You know? And it's, and it's ... If you do that, then you can help them transition- Exactly ... without all this bad blood that a lot of people have. Without, without
Mike Glenn: all
Lyle Philips: the bad blood and that kind of thing, so.
I, I've been telling folks, and you asked me what our next step is, I didn't answer, but I've been telling folks recently, "You know, in our Next Step classes, I think we may need to give you a course on not just how to join a church- Yeah ... but how to leave a church." Yeah. 'Cause most people just don't do it well.
Yeah. They think like, "If I leave this church- Yeah ... I've gotta burn all my bridges- You're trying to hate everybody ... and destroy all my friendships." Yeah, yeah. And, uh, someone said it, uh, much better than I did I think with a meme on social media, but like, "You're allowed to leave a church, and you're allowed to remain friends with the people-
that were at that church because it's a church, not a gang." That's right. You didn't get jumped into it. Yeah, that ... Yeah, that's right. You, you don't gotta die to leave it. That's right.
Mike Glenn: It's okay. That's right. Like- Yeah, you didn't have to get a tattoo or anything. That's right. Exactly. Yeah, I love that.
Sometimes to grow
Lyle Philips: is to go. Yeah. And, and, and people don't realize that. And, and, and I gotta acknowledge- Yeah ... you know, at some point- Mm-hmm ... I, I'm not everybody's end all be all. Our [00:28:00] church is not everybody's end all be all. Mm-hmm. And it may just be a handoff, uh, from me to another pastor or another church in another city, and hopefully, um, those people will leave us better than they found us.
I pray so. Yeah. I- I, I think it was Wimber that said, "There's a front door and a back door to every church." Yeah. "My job as the pastor is to stretch the distance between the
Mike Glenn: two." And, and
Lyle Philips: I, I have found in my eight years- Yeah. ... as a, as a pastor, uh, as a, as a senior pastor I suppose, really we started pastoring in '11, but we're gonna say '16 'cause that's when we planted, but, um, that's, that's true.
That's definitely true. What gives you hope? That Jesus said that he would build his church, and I know our God doesn't lie.
Mike Glenn: Mm.
Lyle Philips: And I know that he's building the church, I'm not. If it was up to me, it already had failed, but because he's got it in his hand, then I always have an expectation that it will go how he wants it to go-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ... [00:29:00]
Lyle Philips: which means it will bless people, people will be saved, healed, delivered, reconciled. Uh, we'll have all kinds of testimonies to shout about, and ultimately if I'll be obedient and wise, the church will grow, expand, and, uh, replicate in the way he wants it to.
Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: In, in ways that you would have prayed for- If we had been smart enough to pray that way to begin with.
Lyle Philips: Oh, I went through my fair share of frustrations with Jesus- Yeah ... about how He wasn't growing my church. Yeah, that's
Mike Glenn: right. I, yeah, I've had those
Lyle Philips: conversations. And y- you know, on prayer walks. Yeah.
Right. Once again, shaking my fist- Yeah ... at the heavens. You're, but you're- "God, why are you not growing my church?" Yeah,
Mike Glenn: but you're behind. You, you know, we needed to have this done by now, and this kind of stuff, and- Exactly ... and stick in my calendar. But we'll, uh, we'll save that one for the next podcast. Of course.
This guy is Lyle Phillips. He is the pastor at Legacy Church in, uh, East Nashville on Dale Wood, and they are planting a second [00:30:00] congregation right over here on Mallory, and the starting date is October... The 12th. The 12th. Coming up in a hurry here. You can find all out, you can find all about them on Legacy...
Nashville.org. Dot org. That's easy enough. Yes, sir. I, I couldn't, I couldn't remember if it was legacychurch.or- ex- legacy nashville.org. I'm Mike Glenn. This is the Engaged Church Podcast, the Engaged Church Network Podcast. I can't even remember the name of our own group stuff. I'm getting old. Engaged Church Network Podcast, and we are really glad you're here today.
Thanks for tuning in to the Engaged Church Network Podcast. We exist to train healthy and skilled leaders for congregations throughout Middle Tennessee. If today's episode helped you, share it with a fellow leader, and don't forget to visit engagedchurchnetwork.com for more ways to [00:31:00] grow.
