Mission First: How Conduit Church Was Built Backward
In this episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast, Mike Glenn sits down with Darren Tyler, pastor of Conduit Church, to discuss his unconventional journey into church planting. Unlike the traditional approach, Darren started with missions first, leading Bible studies that transformed into a movement of global outreach—long before he ever considered launching a church.
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Mike Glenn: Hi, I'm Mike Glenn, and I am the president of the Engage Church Network, and it is my privilege to welcome you to today's podcast. Joining me today is my friend Darren Tyler. Darren has been the pastor of Conduit Church for 15- 15 years ... 15 years. Time flies when you're having a good time. Uh, Conduit Church is located in South Franklin, and, uh, is, uh, a thriving, uh, congregation known for its investment and engagement with missions.
In fact, you've just come back from Nepal- Yeah ... on, uh, on some work there. You've known about your work in Haiti. Uh, uh, here's why I wanna talk to Darren. Darren did church planting backwards. You know, where we're talking about how you plant a church and all that, he did it backwards. Uh, now, c- correct me if I'm wrong on any of this- Yeah
on any of this setup- I'd be anxious to hear what you think happened, yeah ... I'm giving. Okay. Uh, as, as, as far as I have remembered from our stories and the way you've told it to me, [00:01:00] you had a Bible study. Yep. Bible study was going, changing lives. Everybody's, everybody's grooving, good things happening. Uh, out of that Bible study comes, "We need to do something."
Yeah. Okay? Yeah, that's good. You made it so far. We need, we need to express our Christianity in some tangible way. Yep. Uh, and that was Haiti. Yeah. Or now, was that the, the earthquake? Was that what prompted it? It was before the earthquake. Before the earthquake. Yeah. Okay. Way before the earthquake. Okay. It would be years and years before.
So you start going to Haiti. Uh-huh. And- This, this is pretty good. You're actually remembering this ... and then you start thinking, "This is what I..." You were in the music business- Uh-huh ... uh, working with artists, managing careers- Yep ... and that kind of stuff, uh, with a, a lot of the big name stuff that our, that our people would know.
So you were successful in that area, but you became more burdened and more aware, "This is what I need to be doing." Yeah. The missions. Yeah. Going to Haiti, going to, you know- Uganda. Uh, U- Uganda- Asia ... and all these other places I don't wanna go [00:02:00] to. I mean, I can just picture right there. Um- And, and, and that's okay.
We all got different callings in different places. 100%. But then the question came is, "How do we fund, how do we support, how do we keep alive, how do we train the future of this mission ministry?" Yeah. And Conduit kind of c- c- congealed around that vision. It's a
Darren Tyler: funny word for it, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, you, you- The solidified, but uh-
solidified around- Although in those early days, it did feel more like Jell-O Like Jell-O ... than anything. Yeah. Yeah, but becasue,
Mike Glenn: because you did it backwards. Yeah.
Darren Tyler: Uh-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ... which
Darren Tyler: is an interesting story. Yeah, we are a mission with a church department- Yeah ... that the, the Bible study was born out of, I was working in- The music world, primarily Christian music, and I had a, a pretty well-known evangelist, uh, ask me, one of the artists that was performing, could they bring the gospel tonight at our crusade- Mm-hmm
out in LA? And I was like, [00:03:00] "No, you don't want them to do that. They don't know the gospel." Uh, and he said words that have haunted me, which was, "Well, isn't that a problem?"
Mike Glenn: Hmm.
Darren Tyler: And I thought, "Well, man, it is a problem." So I literally started a Bible study, uh, so that artists who were s- you know, selling millions of records in the Christian music world could actually know the difference between Noah and Jonah.
Which, which is so silly. But that was sort of a conversation I had- Yeah ... with one of the guys. I'm like, "Oh, you're talking about Noah. He, you know- Yeah ... there was no whale in the, in the Noah thing." But th- the Bible study was born out of that, and as you know, when you go through the Word, the Word goes through you.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And you just can't... Especially when you're doing chapter by chapter, I couldn't get past these passages about God's heart for the poor, for the powerless, for the oppressed.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And in the middle of all that, I meet a guy from Haiti, one of the kids at the Bible study who's still TobyMac's day-to-day manager, guy named Philip Peters.
Introduced me to Joe LaFleur, and he told us what was going on with his work there, and it's just like, "Hollie, we can't not... I can't do nothing about this." Mm-hmm. And it was sort of organically born [00:04:00] that way. Right. No desire for a church. There's, I mean, if you've been in the Nashville area, uh, there's lots of really great churches here.
Right. So it didn't even occur to me that a church was growing out of it. I was an elder at a different church here in town where they- Mm-hmm ... they were very open-handed with their, with their ministry, and so that pastor kept poking at me, you know, "Hey, this is a church and you're a pastor." It's the first time it ever floated.
My, my wife, she laughed and laughed and laughed. She's like, "You don't even like people. How can you be a pastor?" It's like, but all she'd ever experienced is my whole day was people, people, people, people. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. So I'd come home and I'd just want to stare at a wall. Yeah. Um, so w- w- about three years after that was when we both realized that this was bigger than either of us realized, and that it was, a church was growing out of it.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And that was 2009.
Mike Glenn: Talk to me about the, the conversation you had with the former pastor who started calling out the pastor in you. Hmm. He
Darren Tyler: was so [00:05:00] purposeful about it. Um, his name's Jamie, and he was a- He kept, in fact that w- w- the night really became real, he brought, uh, he h- had us over to his house.
It was my wife-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ... and
Darren Tyler: myself and him and his wife. And I'd, I'd learned later that it was very purposeful, but he had brought all the CD jackets. Uh, in the bl- in the late 1900s, uh, they used to make CDs where they put- Right ... paper in them and things. Yeah. And, but he started reading. He'd, like, underlined the special thanks sections.
Mm-hmm. Uh, and he said, "Look what they're thanking you for, spiritual wisdom, your biblical insight." It's like that's all. You just do a sermon once a week and, and you're a pastor. And for whatever reason, that moment, it hit, like, it just downloaded that that was what was, that was our future. Right. And, and props to him 'cause it, it literally didn't occur to me.
Our, our tagline on our, our MySpace page, that's how long ago it was, said, "We're not a church. We just act like one." That's right. But honestly, Mike, I thought a church would ruin it. Like, there was a weird- Well, yeah ... part of me that like- Yeah ... oh, gosh, then you got committees and [00:06:00] we're like- Yeah ... you know, I just, uh- Mm-hmm
and, and I've, yeah, I've since learned, I'm 15 years in. But, you know, right after the, the Haiti earthquake, uh, I had friends that were there that were dying. Like, we had to get in. We had to help. We had... These, th- they're your friends. That's what you do with your friends. Yeah. And I ended up at a, a, a meeting here locally.
It was maybe about two weeks after the quake, and it was some, some large church's missions departments. And we're sitting around this large table, and they're talking about, you know, we wanna talk about sustainable options, which are all amazing, amazing- Right ... things. But in that moment, I'm like, "But my friends are dying right now, so if you don't have- Right
a boat, a plane, food, like, I gotta go." Mm-hmm. "Like, we can come back to the dis- uh, the, you know, the sustainability conversation." But in hindsight, I've, I've realized and learned that, uh, it's like a radio dial. There's a, there's a station for the pop- Right ... rock- Right ... country, talk. You know, our station was immediate, nimble action.
Mm-hmm. And there's another station. It's probably what Brentwood does a lot of, right? Right. Which is, uh, [00:07:00] sustainability, long-term- Mm-hmm ... commitments. And by the way, we do stay long-term. I mean, I'm s- we are still working in the same community- Mm-hmm ... with the same people in Haiti. Yeah. Yeah, we learned
Mike Glenn: at, at, at, when, when I was at Brentwood, we would wait, uh, at, because there's this onrush of the- Uh-huh.
Yep ... and then after that kinda settled down, then we would find the, the door- Yeah ... and, and we would be there long-term.
Darren Tyler: Which is, I think, a really good biblical way to do it because, uh, there needs to be long-term. Right. There needs to be immediate. You know, there needs to be intermediate. And it's not that one does it right or wrong.
It's not every- one person, one church can't do all of those things- No ... well. Uh-uh. And so we learned that that was, was and continues to be our role, which is to be able to act quickly and nimbly. And it turns out the church didn't ruin it. Yeah. Like, I think it helped that we started with it. Like, I feel sad for pastors that I talk to that...
I just had coffee with a pastor this week who's been at it about four years, and he met me at, at our church facility. [00:08:00] In, in our facility, we use our real estate to tell the mission stories. Mm-hmm. He's like, "Yeah, I mean, we gotta get, we gotta get onto outreach. We gotta get onto mission at some point. We gotta..."
And, like, and four years in, he, he just hadn't, and, uh, I don't fault him for that at all, but most of the church planting boot camps and church planting organizations, the ones that I w- we're aware of anyway, very much focus on getting your church off the ground and growing your church- Right ... and then you get around to mission later.
Right, right. And I don't know that that's the best way. It's almost like sh- hey, I'm gonna get a college, then I'll pay off my debt- Mm-hmm ... then I'll pay, you know, and you never get around to it. Like, if you start with it in your budget, if you start with it in your vision, it's a whole lot easier to budget for it as the years go on.
Mike Glenn: Well, not only that, but it's, it, uh, it determines who's attracted to your congregation. That's true. That's really true. See, if you're, if, if the mission is up front- Mm-hmm ... then people come in knowing, "I'm gonna be part of this mission, and that's something I wanna be part of." Yeah. And the truth is- Rather than what I spent my life doing, going, "Hey, you need to, you need to determine your gifts and where you want-" Right
you [00:09:00] know.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, and that's... It's not for everybody, uh, because God doesn't call everybody. Mm-hmm. Look, he said, "I don't wanna go to those places," which is 'cause God has not asked you to go there. Yeah. And in the same way that I don't w- I, I, I literally can't even imagine a scenario under which I could have led a church the size and scope, you know, that you did, but I'm, I wasn't called to do that.
Right. And so- So how many, how many times a year are you out of town? Uh, less than it used to be. Well, let, let, let's say in your heyday. Oh, my heyday? Three to four months. Not su- uh, cons- what's the word I'm looking for? Successive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some- Not consecutively ... somebody get the nouns. Con- Uh, consecutively
consecutively, yes. Golly, man. Uh, you're gonna get your money's worth today. But it was three to four months c- uh, over the span of a year, uh, for the first 10 years. Yeah. I'd be gone two or three weeks here, a week there. Um, and now it's more like two to three months total. Uh, like I'll be gone two weeks. I was gone for a month to Nepal.
But, I mean, the good news is, is Nashville, and we're doing a, [00:10:00] uh, I, I feel like we're doing a better job now, at least our church, of raising up young communicators. Right. Um, I learned from some old Baptist guys that what you're supposed to do when you're out of town is bring someone in to preach that's not very good, so that way they miss you.
Mike Glenn: That's right. That's number one rule of preaching. Right? Yeah, I know. Never bring
Darren Tyler: somebody to the pulpit better than you. Better than you. Well, unfortunately, I did not get that memo. So I, you know, we got some guys that, uh, that, that are just really, that are just great. Yeah. Like, they're not bummed when I'm out of town, like when our youth pastor preaches- Yeah
or our executive pastor, whatever, they're not bummed, because we've got really great preachers, and people that are there, uh, because you can't miss it when you walk in the door. Right. We tell the story immediately. They're there for the mission, so they, they understand that if their pastor is in Nepal for a month, that it's, uh, that's what they signed up for.
Mike Glenn: Right. How did you begin to recognize that, wow, I have been prepared for this all my life and did not know it? Wow.
Darren Tyler: Well, when I was a little kid, my mother, uh, would tell me that I was gonna be a, a pastor when I grew up. [00:11:00] Um- Which is hilarious. There was no sign of anything that, that, that was pointing in that direction, you know, including I had mullet and earrings and the whole thing.
But, uh, but it was, uh... So that night of that, when, when I was telling you about with, uh, Jamie- Mm-hmm ... telling me, "You're a pastor, and this is..." Uh, it was like this M. Night Shyamalan movie moment. Right, yeah, right. You know, it's like, "Oh, he was dead the whole time." Yeah. Um, I was a pastor the whole time. But, uh, the things that I'd learned in the music world managing artists was, I mean, you're in the trenches really deep.
Mm-hmm. And these are people that are literally handcuffs to each other, so if you're... They might be killing each other behind stage- Right ... but they've gotta get out in a minute and do their thing. And part of my job was to help them unpack what they were called to do, their, you know, the- Mm-hmm ... and then help them execute it, and then let them take the credit for it, which is kind of what a pastor does.
Yeah. And yeah, it was tho- those were the moments where it was like Moses when God told him to [00:12:00] write this down. He could- Mm-hmm ... because he had spent 40 years in Egypt, which invented papyrus and written language. Right. Right, yeah. He, he already knew that. Yeah, yeah. He knew how to get people through the desert because he'd lived there for 40 years.
He'd lived there. So it wasn't wasted time. It was preparation time, and it turns out the music business was very much like that. Like the Karate Kid, I thought I was just learning to put, you know, wax- I thought I was putting wax on a car. I'm learning to- Wax on, wax off, yeah ... I'm learning to do karate with it.
Yeah. So, and, and, uh, my whole life I've been a Bible nerd, so I don't wanna, like, slough off the theology piece of it- Mm-hmm ... because obviously a job like what you had and I have is very important that we are communicating the Bible accurately.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Darren Tyler: And I had always been a Bible nerd, so even in, like, the tour bus days, you'd have these countless hours just- Right
where you could be playing Xbox, I would just listen to, like, you know, Chuck Smith from Calvary Chapel from, like- Right ... Genesis to Revelation because I had hours- Mm-hmm ... and hours to do it. And so that part was... I never viewed it as a preacher. I just viewed it as I was, I just needed this to make sense.
Right. And it turns out that's [00:13:00] not unlike a sermon, 'cause if I can make it make sense to me- Right ...
Mike Glenn: it'll make
Darren Tyler: sense to anybody. Well,
Mike Glenn: you know, the, the old, the old German theologian who made all his students work in the preschool department of local churches, 'cause if you can't explain the gospel to a five-year-old.
Darren Tyler: Right, right. Yeah, that's really good language- Yeah ... 'cause that's exactly- Yeah. I, I was getting grilled by... I won't say his name. I was g- I was deciding whether we were gonna be part of a nationally known church network.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Okay?
Darren Tyler: And they did the little theology grilling, which i- uh, light kind of not unlike this-
and three guys staring at you. "Define for me penal substitutionary atonement." And at the end of the, the thing, you know, I'd sort of, I'd passed the thing. Mm-hmm. And I was like, "Just so you guys know, like, nobody that I know talks like this." Yeah, yeah. No kidding. Like, I have to be able to explain the gospel to a five-year-old, so I can explain penal substitutionary atonement.
Mm-hmm. But I don't use those words- Mm-mm ... in a sentence, and, uh, it's... So to this day, like the simplicity, it, it is the gospel, right? It's so deep that theologians have studied it for thousands of years, and it's so simple that a child- Yeah, can get it ... can understand it, and that's- I hope that's what we do
Mike Glenn: Now, [00:14:00] uh, in, in, in our conversation with pastors, we talk about five points of clarity.
The pastor has to be clear who they are. Hmm. They have to understand their calling, be clear who, what the calling is, and so they know how to express that con- uh, calling in their context. They have to understand their congregation. There's no congregation like theirs. They have to understand their community.
Hmm. And they have... And from the intersection of congregation, community comes mission. Yeah, we gotta write this down. That was good. Okay. Somebody write that down. So, well, you know, uh, yeah, I, you know, I- It's recording. Okay, okay. That's right. So, so, so from that, you started where everybody wants to go. You know, you mentioned earlier about the guys praying, "I need, I need to get to mission," or, "What is our church going to do?"
You started coming back. Mm-hmm. All right. Now, we've had this conversation at other times about how the Franklin community and, and the Middle Tennessee area is, is getting this unique identity for [00:15:00] all of the, uh, Christian entrepreneurs, let me use- Yeah ... that phrase- It's a good one ... that are, that are moving to this area who know how to get things done.
Yeah. Okay. So my question is, how did th- that firm missional identity inform your preaching, uh, how you do discipleship, how, how you do church- Yeah ... how you do evangelism? Yeah. I mean, uh, I mean, I've been with you enough now to where, um, uh, uh, uh, this, this missional identity is so ingrained in you that any conversation we have, we're gonna get to a mission story- Yeah
some- somehow. Yeah. You know, and it may be, "Hey, here's Nepal. Here's what I just learned this in Uganda." Yeah. "Just told somebody," hey. I mean, that always comes up. Yeah. And it's not forced with you. It's just the air you breathe. Mm-hmm. So, so starting at mission and moving back into- Mm-hmm ... community congregation and all of that, so how does that inform...
Uh, [00:16:00] your preaching is very different from my preaching because you start- Yeah ... and move back.
Darren Tyler: Yeah, that's really good, and it's very astute, by the way, 'cause some of the stuff I didn't know that I was doing. Right. That make sense? Like, I, later I'm looking back going, "Oh, that's what we were doing." Yeah. I just didn't, I didn't know what to call it.
But in the early days, it was, the question was, did our church need a mission, or did Jesus' mission need a church? Mm-hmm. And realizing that is not a small, uh, distinction. Mm-hmm. And that the question I was asking in 2008 and '09 was, does Nashville really need another church? And of course, the answer is probably no.
Uh, in my mind, it was no. Mm-hmm. But I w- I felt like I was asking the wrong question. And what I should've been asking, was there a mission that a, that God had for a group of Jesus people- Right ... to accomplish together that we would just call a church? Mm-hmm. So that's where we, we were just born out of that idea, and so we have been, uh, ruthless [00:17:00] with the mission.
Mm-hmm. Uh, I know that's maybe a pejorative word for it, but I just- I ran into somebody the other night at a... We were backstage at an event, and he'd been at the church for a while, and, uh, it was the awkward moment. So he, he... A client of his, anyway, it's a long story, friends, we knew each other. Mm-hmm. He said, "Yeah, man, I really wanted, uh, loved your church, but we, I just wanted more of you, and you were just gone too much."
Mm-hmm. And, you know, so he was sort of apologizing for that, and I was like, "You know, um, I appreciate you saying that, but that's just, uh, that was always gonna be. That's still the same." Mm-hmm. "I'm not changing that because that's just not what God has called me to do." So it's, again, not for everybody.
Mm-hmm. And he's at a great local church. I know the pastor. I'm glad that's where he wound up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and then there are those that are, they walk in, and this is, especially in those early days, but even till today, in fact, I'm gonna do this in January 'cause I, uh, coming up over this last election, we, we grew a whole bunch, and I just feel like in January, I just need to do a reminder for those that have been there- Right
and a, uh, a class for those who are just here, that [00:18:00] if you're here because Darren speaks about controversial things, that's great, but that's not the mission. Mm-hmm. Like, the mission, the reason I speak about controversial things is that our context, truth is what is needed. Mm-hmm. Uh, but the global context, uh, mission is what we do.
So if you, if you're not in for that, there's no hard feelings. It won't be weird if I see you at Walmart. Mm-hmm. Um, and at the same time, we try to challenge people to think like that. I mean, there are, are a, a good many, in fact, a, a lady now who hosts, she's leading our Uganda trips now, uh, the first time she went to Uganda with me was, I don't know, six or seven years ago, and she was not happy, uh, to be there.
She was with her daughter. Right. And she said, "You know, when I first came here, you, you were gone, like, six weeks over the summer, and I thought, man, the pastor doesn't even go to church here." "Why, why, why do I go to church here?" But on that first trip to Uganda, she was just, I mean, she was sobbing and saying- Mm-hmm
"I am so sorry. I understand now." Mm-hmm. "You are our pastor," meaning theirs, and- Right ... and so, and now five years later, this is discipleship, right? Just a little te- Mm-hmm ... tweak at a [00:19:00] time, a little notch. Uh, this summer, she will be the leader of two groups of 15 to 20 people going to Uganda, uh, and I'll fly in and fly out- Mm-hmm
with it, but that's the hope, of course, is that a- awaken the sleeping giant of, of global mission. Yeah. See,
Mike Glenn: that's, that's my point. Uh, for, for most churches, it's how can I get my neighbor converted? I mean, I'm being, I'm being kinda crass here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's, so- Mm-hmm ... so we have evangelism, so I'm gonna train you in how to share the gospel, basic apologetics, and that kinda stuff.
Mm-hmm. Then you get them into the church, get them baptized, and you disciple them, uh, and that is, they learn a lot more about Jesus with the idea that I will move towards some kind of mission, and it may be a long time. You start at the other end. If you come be part of Conduit, how do we get you- Yeah To go on mission Yeah, like right now Okay.
Yeah, what, yeah, what do we need to do in your life right now, what do you need to learn so that you're ready to go on the mission? Yeah And we would rather send you out on the mission [00:20:00] and let you learn what you need to learn
Darren Tyler: Yeah, I mean, that's what Jesus did Ra- He sent them out, you know ... rather than,
Mike Glenn: rather than s- be, spend all your time fixing to get ready, as we say in the South
Darren Tyler: Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, that's what Jesus did, right? He, you know, gets to the disciples before they're disciples saying, "Hey, follow me." Uh-huh And he didn't spend, uh, three years of seminary with them. No Like, he just... They're following him, and they're watching what he does And then he would send
Mike Glenn: them out- Yeah ...
Darren Tyler: and bring 'em back.
Yeah Send 'em out, bring 'em back. Yeah. They come back, "Hey, the demons didn't come out this time." Right. "Oh, this is why." You know? Yeah "This, this is why." You learn so much more, uh, when you're in the field doing it, like an apprentice- Right ... than in a classroom, and I am not against classrooms at all. Uh, at all.
Mike Glenn: No, they both have their places. 100% But- Yeah ... uh, historically, the church has always trained its, its leaders by doing.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. And it turns out, like, that, uh, works. And, uh- Mm-hmm ... and I don't wanna pretend that we don't have a local expression. I mean, we very much are heavily invested in our local community.
But even here it's, we, we're looking [00:21:00] at, okay, uh, we go to Uganda. The, they're born again, but their water's not born again. Right So we'll get 'em clean water. You know, so what are, what's the clean water issue of our culture? Mm-hmm. Like, what's killing our people? It's addiction. Mm-hmm. You know, it's mental health.
It's... So we are investing heavily in places like Place of Hope in Columbia, Tennessee. Yep. I've been on the board for 25 years now. Christ-centered inpatient drug and alcohol reha- uh, rehabilitation- Mm-hmm ... for the poor. It's completely free. Uh, and we have, I, I've lost track of how much money we've invested there.
Uh- Mm-hmm ... we, we remodeled their building before we, uh, we had a building. Uh, I think we spent half a million dollars on that. It's been a, a few years back, but it just felt like a great way to- Mm-hmm ... um, love our community. Right And to this day, like while we're sitting here talking, there are 35 people, uh, uh, that woke up this morning in beds that our f- church family paid for- Right
that are getting free from addiction. That's a great investment- Yeah ... of God's money. And, and, and when you start with mission, I, I do wanna say this, that we [00:22:00] didn't do this to grow the church. We just did it because this is what the mission was. Mm-hmm. But there's a thing that I'm sensing right now in especially, uh, 20-somethings- Millennials.
Millennials, gen- yeah, huge They wanna know that if they're giving something, that it's doing what they thought it was-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ... gonna do. I tell folks, you know, the, the, because, you know, I'm a Boomer. The Boomers were generous, would give to institutions. The generations- Mm-hmm ... behind us Are very different. Now, they are as generous.
They will give you the shirt off their back- 100% ... for a well in Uganda. You come and say- Yeah ... I've got a dirty water in this village, they will give you anything- 100% ... to make that happen. They will not give you the change in their pocket for a light bulb in the fellowship hall. Or an air conditioner. Like, I- Yeah.
Hey ... I vividly
Darren Tyler: remember
Mike Glenn: Yeah ...
Darren Tyler: the, the first summer we were in the building that God gave us, we, uh, the AC was, uh, it was a joke. It was like they bought it at JCPenney or something. Yeah. And, uh, [00:23:00] so we ... I'm trying to raise $15,000 for an air conditioner. Yeah. I gave it ... I mean, I swear I gave it the best college try.
A whole month of $15,000, and I think we raised 7,500. Yeah. It- no- Like, well, I guess we'll just come out of general funding ... no, they're not, they're not gonna do that. Right? No. But then 30,000 to, you know, to drill two wells- Right ... in East Africa, and it was remarkable wi- with it. And so ... But we've learned ... So what we do
Like, I, I don't know how others are doing it. I, I'm working on Sundays, so I don't get to- Right. Mm-hmm ... go to church much, but we just stopped even passing the plate. Like, I ... We do what we call a mission moment- Mm-hmm ... every week, and here's what, here's what happened with your money this week. Right. Your generosity set- That's right.
Mm-hmm ... these slave families free in Asia- Mm-hmm ... for instance. Uh, and then we just go on. Like, people clap. We ... You know, this happened, and then we just go on to the next part of the service. Right. And, uh, Hebrews 10:24, I know that I got bloodied a lot by Hebrews 10:25 growing up, you know. Mm-hmm. "Don't forsake the assembling."
Right. Every time the church doors are open, you're supposed to be there. But, uh, as you [00:24:00] know, it's, that's, uh, there's a comma in front of verse 25. Verse 24 says, "When you come together, inspire one another- Right ... to love, to good deeds, comma, forsaking not the assembling of yourselves." Mm-hmm. So we ... In fact, our, our code on our alarm for years was 10:24.
Like, it was just a part- Mm-hmm ... of who we are, that whatever else we're gonna do on a Sunday, we're gonna have a moment to cheer on the people and their generosity. Right. And, uh, it, it just inspires people, uh, to give. And, uh, my former pastor was a guy named Willie George back in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Church on the Move.
Yeah. Gospel Bill. Gospel Bill fans here. But he used to say, "If you will, uh, if you will invest and spend money on behalf of those who cannot possibly repay you back- Right ... God will take care of the rest." Yeah. Uh, he specifically was talking about youth and children ministry. Well, you
Mike Glenn: have, you have dinner for people who will invite you to dinner.
The pagans do that, Jesus said. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Exactly, right? You invite people who can't invite you back.
Darren Tyler: Yeah. And I can just tell you, like, there's ... I sat down with a pastor here about 10 years ago, 'cause we were hosed. I had given [00:25:00] all the money away, and he told me- Mm-hmm ... that we were irresponsibly generous, and I couldn't argue with him.
Mm-hmm. I was looking at the same spreadsheet that he was looking at. But what you can't factor into a spreadsheet is The power of God. No. The miraculous, and there's- There's no line item for that. No. 'Cause I'm looking, I'm looking at it too. I, I wouldn't have money for a building. Yeah. And then God gave us a building.
Yeah. Um, we, we didn't have money for, you know, carpeting in the fellowship hall, and somebody volunteered to give that to us, and we spent the 25 grand on wells in Uganda- Right ... that we would've spent on the flooring. I'm not saying that's a model that everybody should emulate. Well,
Mike Glenn: the interesting thing is, kn- knowing, knowing your congregation, they wouldn't have given $25,000 for carpet.
Darren Tyler: Fair. Fair, yeah. They, they would
Mike Glenn: have give- they'd give it to the wells. Yeah. No, fair. I mean, that's- But they wouldn't give it to the carpet.
Darren Tyler: But, but I have to say this, though, um, my friend Alex Matala, who I've been working with in Uganda- Mm-hmm ... for 18 years, he, he, like, embodies African wisdom. Right, yeah.
Like, you get to see him, like, you know, [00:26:00] on, on Timon and Pumbaa telling stories, you know? Uh, but he, he said this years and years ago. He's like, "You know, if someone has a heart for clean water in Africa, how do I tell them to change the heart God gave them for that, and now you need to build a Bible school-" Right
in Haiti or-" Mm-hmm "... church locally, whatever." He's like, "You know, just let the Holy Spirit..." And I have 15 years of anecdotal evidence that shows that there are people that have a heart for the local church. Mm-hmm. I don't have to beat them. I don't have to, you know, whip them into shape. They just have a heart, and they pay for what we call a- Right
you know, we're a troop carrier. Right. We're not a cruise ship. And then there are those, like I, I know there are people in my congregation that, uh, I don't... I know they don't tithe 'cause I know what they do for a living. Mm-hmm. And I know that our budget would double overnight. Right. Right, yeah. But, you know, one guy, for instance, he, he wrote a $150,000 check for an entire campus for a thing in Africa, and I don't think Jesus was mad about that.
No. Yeah. Um, and b- and the church has been taken care of. So it's like when people ask, "How do we give so much?" The answer is, we don't. [00:27:00] I just tell people what the needs are, and we pray- Yeah ... and God just moves on hearts and- Yeah. Individuals ... you know. Yeah, I tell our people that I wanna be the hardest and the easiest place in town to raise money.
Yeah. Meaning that if I'm emotionally manipulating you, put the checkbook down. Right. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 9, whatever, "Don't do it out of, uh-" No, no ... guilt or shame." Guilt. Yeah. So, but if God has given you a heart today, then fine. Mm-hmm. And if not, that's also fine. Yeah. You know, we're not checking, you know, clipboards to see.
And again, 15 years in, I think, um, I think our total mission spend last year was 3.5, 3.7 million in 2024. Well, you
Mike Glenn: know, the, the interesting thing, and the, and the thing it took me generation... a, a long time to learn, was there are times when giving wrongly motivated, wrongly, um, directed actually harms- Hmm
the person who's giving. That's good to hear. Yeah. It would be better, it is better, not this week- Yeah Not this week. [00:28:00] Let's work- Yeah ... to where you can give with joy. Let's work to where the relationship- Yeah ... deepens and you give where it's not a thought of the giving. Yeah. Uh, but you know, I, I got pretty good at that manipulation in giving.
Yeah. And, uh, and, uh, you know, you make a living that way. Yeah. But, um, but I began to understand that this discipleship, the outflow of discipleship is generosity. Yeah. And, uh, took me a long time to learn that. Yeah But,
Darren Tyler: you know, and- And it's a gift, right? I mean, that's, that whole passage of 2 Corinthians 8:9 where he talks about that and the cheerful giver.
Mm-hmm. And he's speaking specifically of an offering for the saints in Jerusalem- Mm-hmm ... who were suffering in famine and persecution. And yeah. And he is, uh, he takes two chapters to describe this need, and then he starts cheering on this church and that church. This one's doing great. Yeah. And they have nothing, but man, they give a lot.
Yeah. And almost like a, you know, and so don't let me down. [00:29:00] Like, it almost- That's right. I, I've been bragging on you- Yeah ... to these other congregations- So don't run in my mouth ... and they're gonna- Don't send Timothy back with an empty
Mike Glenn: bag. Yeah. But how important it was for Paul for the gentile church to take care- Yes
of the Jerusalem Christians, and by that solidify we are family. We are family. We are your brothers. We are, and we're gonna come- Yeah ... to Uganda, and we are your brothers. Yeah. In Haiti, we are your brothers and sisters and family here. Yeah. So.
Darren Tyler: Well, and it's, God loves a cheerful giver. Mm-hmm. You're gonna help these people that desperately need it.
It feels good. It's supposed to feel good. Well, and they
Mike Glenn: will see it as an answer to prayer. 100%. They will thank God. Yes. We prayed for this. Food showed up. We prayed for this. Yeah. Thank God for his goodness, and- Yeah ... we get to be part of that answered prayer, which is- That's a huge gift ... that is, that's a lot of fun.
Yeah. That is a lot of fun. 'Cause when you think
Darren Tyler: about it, God could have chosen, he could make it rain turtles right now. Yeah. Like, he could do whatever he wanted to. But for some reason he's allowed us, invited us to be a part- Be part of, part of his work ... of that, you know? Yeah. And it's like, [00:30:00] for me, like I thought, I think what I was so reticent about a pastor was I thought...
And by the way, this is no knock on pastors that this is what they do, but I thought the only way to be a pastor was s- you know, seminary, I'm preaching sermons- Mm-hmm ... and then someone else does the mission. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and I didn't see that as a way that, uh, th- the way that God wired me that I could grow old doing that.
Right. Uh, but this I can grow old doing. Yeah. You know? I mean, there's, there's moments where I'm like, "Oh, this is maybe the dumbest thing I've ever done." But watching God's provision over and over and over again, and then- Yeah ... I just got back from, I was in Nepal- Yeah ... but I'm watching... I mean, Mike, I got to baptize a guy from a tribe that had never heard the gospel before.
Oh. Like, there's, I don't, by some counts, 3,000 unreached people groups left- Right ... but there's one less now- That's right ... because of our people, and I'm like, I- I can grow old doing this. Mm-hmm. Like, this is a big deal. Yeah. It's a lot of fun for me. And, you know, I'd still have to, I still have to preach. I don't live to preach.
Uh, in fact, when I'm overseas, I, I try as best I [00:31:00] can to find someone else to do it, 'cause, uh, I'm a one-trick pony. Yeah. I mean, my, my comedy is, you know, it's very niche, so- Yeah. And it doesn't survive the language barrier, so. Yeah, you gotta know all the background- Yeah ... of all of
Mike Glenn: it for it to be
Darren Tyler: funny.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, I'll use it.
Oh, gosh, thank you. This is Darren Tyler. Thanks, Mike. And he's at Conduit, uh, Church here in Franklin. He is a good guy friend. Now, what are w- what are we gonna take away from this? One, there's no right or wrong way to do church. Mm-hmm. Uh, w- we've done church, uh, a lot of different ways. Uh, Darren's church started with the mission and worked backwards.
Other people start with a congregation and work toward mission. Either one works, but you gotta have both. Uh, people are generous when they see God working. They wanna be part of what God is doing in the world, and when they see your church expressing that, then they will give generously to that. And all of that, mission, generosity, and all of that is part of the discipleship.
There's a lot of ways to do this. [00:32:00] Darren is a good example of what happens when you start with mission, and then that pulls the church into being. It's a good church, and, uh, and Darren's a good guy, and I thank you for being here with us today. Absolutely. I'm Mike Glenn. This is the Engage Church Network.
Thanks for joining us.
