Raising Leaders, Not Just Volunteers | Sam Landrith
Most pastoral transitions fail because the outgoing leader never truly let go and the incoming leader never truly prepared. Sam Landrith spent more than a year working alongside his predecessor before stepping into the lead role at Thompson Station Church -- and the church barely felt the change. Mike Glenn talks with Sam about what it actually takes to raise up leaders instead of volunteers, why a church of 2,800 people is choosing depth over expansion, and what younger generations need from the church that most congregations aren't offering yet.Related Links
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Mike Glenn: Sam Landrith is our guest today on our podcast. Sam and I have known each other... Well, I met you when you were still a kid. It's been a long time. You probably don't, you probably don't remember it. I think you and your father- Yeah. Uh-huh ... were at a Belmont basketball game or something. Wow. And I was introduced to Sam.
Mm-hmm. Uh, I, you know, I think you were still in high school at the time or something. Yes. But, uh, your da- your dad and I were, were- Yeah ... good friends.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, admired your dad a lot. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and, uh, when, uh, when you and I started k- kind of hanging around, I would, I would inadvertently call you by your father's name.
One, because you do resemble him a lot. Yeah. But, uh, uh, just, there's just so much- Mm ... uh, love and respect for your dad. Mm. Uh, y- your dad was one of these, uh, s- very, very successful, um, creative pastor of, of Long Hollow-
Sam Landrith: Mm ...
Mike Glenn: that our, that our friend Robbie is at now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But really [00:01:00] put the foundation for all the growth that Robbie's seeing now.
Mm. Did all that. Y- your, your dad had one of those wonderful things of, uh... I, I, I used to tease him about being the bumblebee. He was the one who didn't know any better. So, so he would read and he would say, "Okay, go visit the people next to you." So, okay. He, we, he'd go visit people next to you, you know? Yeah.
"Go, go preach the gospel." Okay. You know. And we, we'd talk to him, and go, "Man, tell us about what you're doing and all this." "Well, I don't know. I, you know, I'm preaching the gospel and visiting people." And it's like- Yeah ... this very basic- Mm-hmm ... kind of fundamental church life-
Sam Landrith: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: uh, that your, your dad just excelled at.
Mm. So we would always leave going, "What? We don't get it." He's, you know, the church is doubling and everything else.
Sam Landrith: Yeah. And,
Mike Glenn: uh, and, and- Yeah ... your, you, your dad was- Yeah ... very, very faithful-
Sam Landrith: Mm ...
Mike Glenn: and, um, um, focused- Mm ... I guess would be a good word- Yeah ... on, on that call.
Sam Landrith: Well, thank you. Thank you for that. Uh, for that.
So- He admired you, too. I, I remember him driving us down, uh, to Brentwood- Yeah ... uh, to hear you preach. Oh. [00:02:00] And, and he loved you and, and talked about you and, and- Yeah ... and how you're a gifted communicator and leader- Yeah ... and all of that. And so, uh, but he was, uh, like you said, he was, he was focused. Right. Uh, I mean, he- I remember him being up, you know, 4:00 AM-
Mike Glenn: Right
Sam Landrith: you know, working, but he never missed a practice. He never missed a ballgame. Mm-hmm. Uh, but he, he was gonna work. And, uh, you know, but very simple, too. Yeah. And the one thing I tell people is that, uh, from 300 people- To 7,500 people. Uh, biggest takeaway I have is, uh, I never saw him be a different person-
Mike Glenn: Right
Sam Landrith: off the stage. Right, yeah. Same guy even after the church grew. Mm-hmm. And that's what I admired the most.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, now, now, now you did have, uh, a, a, a, a great privilege of, of being your son's, y- your father's son. Mm-hmm. As, as I had with my dad. Uh, you know, you and I were talking in the hall earlier about we're not seeing generational calls any- anymore.
Mm. And it's kind of a, a different thing. Yeah. It used to be if you were a pastor, your [00:03:00] father was a pastor, and your grandfather was a pastor, and, and you would have family Bibles going back- Mm-hmm ... you know, to, to the 1800s- Yeah ... where somebody in the family had always been a pastor. Mm. Nowadays, because of a lot of the frustrations of church life, most pastors are not encouraging their children to go into the ministry.
They really want their children to have a different kind of life. You're different than that. Uh, you are a, uh, uh, uh, y- you inherited a ministry in the best sense of that word. Mm-hmm. Um, and the mantle was passed to you. Uh, s- what was it like growing up? Yeah. And when did that call become evident for you?
Sam Landrith: Yeah. Um, you know, for me, um, you know, grew up, like you said, pastor's kid around- Mm-hmm ... church. And, uh, I just remember being at a youth camp in, uh, in eighth grade, and they gave a call to [00:04:00] ministry. And I remember walking down the aisle, and I still to this day remember that being like the moment where I said- Right
"Hey, I'm called to ministry." Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, now, after that, um, didn't really wanna go into it, uh, because really just went through a season where didn't wanna do the same thing that my dad did. Uh, you know, you saw a lot of good, but you saw a lot on the flip side, too. Mm-hmm. Um, and then I also just, um, uh, I went through a season where my dad got sick.
He passed to cancer. Uh, and I was really just mad at God. Mm-hmm. And I just thought-
Mike Glenn: A lot of us were mad your dad f- passed away.
Sam Landrith: Yeah, yeah. I, I was just angry. And, and for me, um-
Mike Glenn: I have a long list of people. If Jesus needs to take somebody- ... I will suggest a few.
Sam Landrith: Yeah, that's
Mike Glenn: exactly right. Your dad was not on my list at all.
Sam Landrith: Yeah, and it was- Yeah ... it was one of those moments, too, where you, you had seen God move, and you'd seen God work- Yeah ... and you'd seen him answer prayers. And so then you have this moment where the whole church is praying 'cause he has cancer, people all over the world. Right. So you're still kinda thinking, [00:05:00] "God's gonna heal him," except he just keeps getting worse.
Yeah. And, um, it's one of those moments for me, though, where I had to go, "Okay, everything I know i, is being shaken." Mm-hmm. And, and I, and I did. I got angry at God because I thought, "Hey, when I go to church, it's a reminder." Mm-hmm. "Uh, I don't wanna hear a pastor 'cause all it is is reminding me of, of what I lost."
And- Well,
Mike Glenn: especially Long Hollow. Yeah. It
Sam Landrith: was,
Mike Glenn: it was your dad.
Sam Landrith: Yeah. Absolutely. Wow. And so just went through that phase. But I, I tell this story all the time because a big part of me even coming back to the Lord, coming back to the call, is I remember my dad was about a month away from passing, and he kept asking, uh, for some index cards.
He said, "Hey, if you find these index cards in the house, would you bring them to the hospital?" And so I'd gone to the house, looked around, couldn't find them. Went back to college, uh, didn't think anything about it. Came back, 'cause I got a phone call saying, "Hey, it's not too long before he's gonna pass away."
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I come back, I get to the hospital. I walk in the hospital, walk in the hospital room, and I notice he's got index cards. And I thought to myself, "If this is what he's [00:06:00] choosing to look at or asking for this close to death, then I, I've gotta see what's on these cards." Mm-hmm. And so I kinda crept behind the hospital bed, and when I looked over his shoulder, I, I noticed it was, uh, verse of scripture after verse of scripture after verse of scripture.
And I, I gotta be honest, so I had two reactions. The first reaction was, uh, I wanted to take those index cards and just throw them and say, "What are you doing?" Mm-hmm. "This is the same God that could heal you." Mm-hmm. But about as quick as I had the first one, I had a second one, and it was this: If this is what he's choosing to look at or turn to or to hold onto, then something about this Jesus thing has to be real.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: And I think even for me now in ministry, foundation, life-
Mike Glenn: Y- your, your father had hand-copied Bible verses?
Sam Landrith: He had written down verses on the, on index cards.
Mike Glenn: Wow.
Sam Landrith: And he was just flipping through them before he passed, and it just, for me, to be able to see that, um, to not just see the good on the platform-
Mike Glenn: Right
Sam Landrith: but to see the bad right before you're about to pass away, still holding on to everything [00:07:00] you preached, um, told me I can't, I can't throw this thing away. Mm-hmm. I- it's real. And I think there's moments, y- you've had them, right? Mm-hmm. Where there's someone ... We have a faith, right, and we have faith in Christ, but there's moments where somebody encourages s- us so much in our faith because of their testimony- Right
or, or the s- the, the stance they take. Um, because it, because if he would've thrown in the towel-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
Sam Landrith: uh, and said, "God's not good," I, I don't know what I would've
Mike Glenn: done.
Sam Landrith: Mm-hmm. Uh, but the fact that I got to see him hold onto it, I, I think is even, to answer the question of why I decided to go into ministry, why I decided to be a pastor even though I'd seen all that- Mm-hmm
um, because I, I, I actually believe from that moment, my faith got stronger. I know this thing is real. And I've always thought, "What about that person- Mm-hmm ... who doesn't have a Jesus or a Bible or Bible verses to hold onto?" Who, who would be in that same place. On that same, on that same path. Okay. That's
Mike Glenn: right.
Yeah.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: What did you, what did you learn from your dad?
Sam Landrith: Oh, yeah. [00:08:00] Um, lots of things. I, I think, I think the main things, um, you know, my dad told me all the time, he said, "Hey, talk to anybody. Don't think you're better than anybody." Mm-hmm. Um, you know, he, he, he told me a call to preach is a call to prepare. Um, he had us praying at a early age.
Like at, from a early age, I've, I've prayed for, uh, wisdom. Mm-hmm. You know, God give me the wisdom to know what to do and the strength and courage to do it even when it's hard. I remember, like, getting taught that prayer at six. Mm-hmm. Still pray it today. Um, and I think most of all he taught me, though, hey, um, he was the same guy.
And, and so I didn't see a different guy on the platform. He wasn't perfect. Like, he made plenty of mistakes. Um, but I didn't see him change as the church grew. I didn't see him get more, um, you know, worried about that outside world or, or any of that. I, I saw him, uh, still be the same guy offstage as he was, uh, onstage even as it grew.
And I think that just was always a reminder to me of, of humility. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and at the end of the day, right, it's, it's gonna [00:09:00] be gone for all of us. And, uh, a- and only what we, you know, what we leave behind to the- Mm-hmm ... people closes us, closest to us matters.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Let, let me give you a, a, a, a glimpse to your future.
Yeah. I was at Brentwood for 32 years.
Sam Landrith: Mm.
Mike Glenn: I'm a trivia question now.
Sam Landrith: It's, it's hard for us to think about that, but
Mike Glenn: it's- No pressure ... it all happens, doesn't it? Yeah. It's all, it's all about Jay Strother now- Yeah, yeah ... and all that. And who was that gray-headed guy before Jay? That was it. Yeah. Oh, man. Okay. Mm-hmm. What would you tell your dad about ministry now- Yeah ... that's different from the way your dad did ministry?
Sam Landrith: Oh, that's a great question. Um, I think, you know, he was leading during, um, you know, it, it was the seeker movement. Right. And so he was looking at Willow Creek- Mm-hmm ... and, and, and North Point. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I remember when he went from the tie to, you know, the shirt and [00:10:00] blue jeans- That's right. Yeah ... and-
Mike Glenn: Radical stuff
Sam Landrith: it, it, it was all the, yeah, yeah. Right. It, it was, uh, "Hey, let's make everybody feel welcome." Right. And, and I, I, I still remember, like, you know, the first time he wore blue jeans. You know, they, my mom grew up at First Baptist Cleveland- Yeah ... and so she's worried. And so she comes into church, and it, it's funny how God works things out.
Someone sat beside her that literally in the service turned and said, "Hey" I, I wouldn't have been able to come to church, but somebody told me I can wear this here- Yeah ... and so I came today. And, and it was that whole movement- Mm-hmm ... of the seeker movement and make everybody feel welcome, um, which was a great movement in so many ways.
Mm-hmm. Um, but I think right now, um, we had the seeker movement, which was awesome, uh, but so much has changed in culture and in society, um, even when it comes to political issues- Mm-hmm ... today as- Mm-hmm ... compared to political issues in, in, 25 years ago. Um, you know, we weren't questioning things like gender or sexuality- Right, right
or marriage. And, and so now those issues are at the forefront. Um, you- you've got, [00:11:00] uh, assassination attempts on, on political figures today like you didn't have then. Mm-hmm. And I think you're seeing people, uh, really be hungry for truth-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: and, and really valuing, uh, presence over performance. And it's not that before was all about- Right
performance, but I think there's a new thing coming in that, that I'm seeing of ... It- it's, it's that combination, right, of like R.T. Kendall says, "Hey, revival happens when the Word and the Spirit come back together," and there's been a divorce. I think you're seeing the Word and the Spirit kinda come back together- Mm-hmm
and people be hungry for truth like they never have before. Mm-hmm. And, and probably a lot of that, too, has to do with social media, uh, the digital age. You can get information overload. Um, and so I think, uh, as far as the, the ... They never compromised the truth then, but I, I just think you're seeing the seeker movement kinda change, and people are just hungry for truth.
Mike Glenn: [00:12:00] Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: Uh, they're looking for answers everywhere because the world has gotten so much more confusing, so the church has to be more clear than ever before.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: Um, and, and more of that, "Hey, is there a tangible presence, uh, of the Holy Spirit and of God in this place?" Mm-hmm. Um, i- is it real? I think they're asking that question.
I- is it real? What's real? Mm-hmm. And, and are we ready to answer that? And I think people are kinda moving from ... You remember the days, right? You know, you, you drive a car on stage. You do this. Yeah, yeah,
Mike Glenn: yeah,
Sam Landrith: yeah. You're like ... I, I think it's shifting from that, but at, at the same time, I think the harvest is, is very ripe right now- Mm-hmm
wh- when we dive into hitting some of those things head-on.
Mike Glenn: Oh, I tell people that there's never been a better time than right now-
Sam Landrith: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: to preach the gospel- Yeah ... because all the questions culture is asking are Jesus questions.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Questions of identity, purpose, meaning, hope- Mm-hmm ... value. All of those are Jesus questions.
Exactly. And we sh- we should be at the forefront of that [00:13:00] conversation.
Sam Landrith: Exactly.
Mike Glenn: With that.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay. Okay, now you have been on staff at Thompson Station for-
Sam Landrith: I've been there- Uh, uh, you- ... a little over eight years.
Mike Glenn: Okay. But- Yeah ... and you were the Gen X pastor.
Sam Landrith: Came in as the youth pastor.
Mike Glenn: Youth pastor.
Sam Landrith: Then moved to next gen.
Next gen. Then kind of a associate- Yeah ... co-pastor year.
Mike Glenn: Okay. And- And we're at now ... and you and Tom, Tom McCoy- Yeah ... who was pastor at the time, were very intentional about this transition.
Sam Landrith: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: So what did you learn as a Gen X pastor-
Sam Landrith: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: that now informs your, your leadership?
Sam Landrith: Hmm. You know, I think, um, I think you started seeing what we talked about in, in even the next generation and, and in youth ministry and- Mm-hmm
and, and kids, is that, um, there's a hunger right now- Mm-hmm ... that hasn't been there. Uh, I, I just don't remember, um, you know, s- teenagers sometimes wanting to, to worship at length- Mm-hmm ... the way they want to right now. I haven't seen them asking questions, [00:14:00] uh, the way they're asking questions right now. Um, you know, I, I was shocked when I was, uh, it was when I was a youth pastor, um, I was walking around in the middle school.
Uh, and, uh, it was sixth grade lunchroom. And a sixth grade table stopped me, and they said, "Hey, Pastor Sam, uh, what do you think about homosexuality?" Uh, it stuck out to me because- Yeah ... I thought-
Mike Glenn: These are 12, 13 year old ...
Sam Landrith: this is the conversation-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: at the lunch table. Now, when I was in sixth grade, it was- No
we weren't anywhere close to that conversation. No, uh, uh. We were, we were throwing food at each other. That's right. Yeah. And, but it told me something. It said, "Hey- Swapping
Mike Glenn: comic books is what you
Sam Landrith: did. That's exactly right. If that conversation is happening in sixth grade-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: then there's a couple things we have to ask.
I- if, if they're getting, uh... If that conversation's going on, uh, the world will disciple people, or the church- Right ... will disciple people. Right. And it, it, I think for a little bit there you had, "Hey, let's, let's kinda not touch that." Uh, but the world was touching that.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. [00:15:00]
Sam Landrith: And so they're being informed, whether it's through a YouTube video, through social media, or what their buddy said at the lunch table.
And the first thing, as well for that group that is different for people like me, um, when it comes to issues like sexuality, you know, e- even when I was there-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: um, it was, it, it was kept kinda hidden.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sam Landrith: But now, uh, you- you've got Jerry, who's in sixth grade. He's not only asking the question, but he knows John-
Mike Glenn: Right
Sam Landrith: who identifies as that.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sam Landrith: And he's asking, "If God is real and is loving, then why can't he be this way?"
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sam Landrith: And I thought if we don't begin to unpack some of that-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. And, and even more- Mm-hmm ... with that, the next level of that same conversation- Yep ... is you have parents-
Sam Landrith: Yep ...
Mike Glenn: who are confused. "I wanna love my child.
I want to- Yeah ... support my child. But how do I help my child?" Yeah. They're being told by the world, "If you do this, then you, then we would take your child away from you."
Sam Landrith: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: If [00:16:00] you don't support certain decisions your child wants to make.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So your parents are ch- are struggling, and,
Sam Landrith: uh- You're opening a whole-
Mike Glenn: Yeah
Sam Landrith: can of, of- Mm-hmm ... uh, you know, we ... A- a- and, and to go a few layers with that, you know, and then, and then you're trying to even have the conversation of if someone does come in that is, uh, identifying as a different gender. Mm-hmm. Okay, how do we, how do we hold to the truth and how do we love? Mm-hmm. And how do we disciple our people to do that?
Right. I think, I think all of these things together- Mm-hmm ... um, create just a melting pot. You know, Sunday we were, we were talking and, and, um, w- we were, we were asking the question, uh, we won't get into it today, but, but we, we do a series where people turn in the questions- Right. Mm-hmm ... and we go, we go, "Hey, let's take the highest ones."
Yeah. And the question was, should Christians be involved in politics? Mm-hmm. Uh, but w- but we talked about how we've removed so much of Christianity from America-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
Sam Landrith: and now everybody's doing whatever's right in their own eyes. Mm-hmm. And when everybody's doing whatever's right in their own eyes, there's no moral standard anymore.
[00:17:00] Mm. There's no moral ground. And when you remove that-
Mike Glenn: Yeah, it's whoever yells the loudest ...
Sam Landrith: chaos comes in. And I think you've got a lot of people, like we're saying, discerning all of that- Mm-hmm ... but I think we started to see it, to answer your question, I started to see it in the next generation earlier.
Mm-hmm. Uh, questions they were asking, things they were wrestling with that the church has to be ready to answer. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Um, so we passed
Sam Landrith: that baton. We're putting decisions
Mike Glenn: on our children earlier now- Mm-hmm ... before they have developed the maturity-
Sam Landrith: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: and the thoughtfulness to be able to address these, these issues in a meaningful way.
Sam Landrith: The, the, the m- you know, the, the mission always stays the same a- and, and the method changes. Right. But the, the idea of missiology, right- Mm-hmm ... you know, the, the way we go about it has shifted in this time a little bit-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ...
Sam Landrith: compared to 25 years ago.
Mike Glenn: Well, and the, the, the ... I'm a professional speaker. I do this all the time, so No.
Um, I w- I wanna go back to [00:18:00] your point earlier about how they are s- they are seeking truth. They're also seeking truth tellers.
Sam Landrith: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: In that I don't know who to trust anymore.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? I can't, I can't trust this politician- Yeah ... because we have evidence where they have lied, so s- the- Yeah ... I can't trust, uh, this entertainment person because of this and that.
Yeah. I can't trust this expert because they have been compromised in this or that way. I can't trust this pastor- Yeah ... because of Of any number of, you know, they've robbed the church, they've run off with another, uh, person- Yeah ... other than their spouse. So all the people that we used to h- h- uh, hold in high esteem- Mm-hmm
we no longer trust anymore.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So y- you were talking earlier about the ministry of presence and how important that is, and that I'm gonna watch you. If I come to Thompson Station and I sit there a- and this is my first time in the church- Mm-hmm ... and somebody says, "Hey, that's Pastor Sam," [00:19:00] I'm gonna watch you before I ever determine if I will listen to you.
Sam Landrith: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? That's good. That's good. I'm gonna watch how you act when your kids run up to you.
Sam Landrith: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: What happens when your wife walks up to you and you're in the middle of a conversation? Do you open your body and let, and invite her in?
Sam Landrith: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: What happens? How do you treat those people? How do you treat the staff?
Sam Landrith: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay, are you a legitimate Christ follower? Not that you're perfect. Yeah. I understand that, you know, everybody stumbles every now and then, but are you legitimately trying to follow Christ? And if you are, I will listen to you.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Mkay?
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: What our world is looking for is someone, as you saw in your dad as he was flipping through those cards-
Sam Landrith: Mm-hmm
Mike Glenn: this is the real deal.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: I'll follow this.
Sam Landrith: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: I'll listen to this. But now you have fathers trying to be a father who never had a father.
Sam Landrith: Mm-hmm. [00:20:00]
Mike Glenn: Mothers trying to be a mother who's never seen a mother.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know, couples getting married, they have never seen a, a, a he- Yeah ... healthy- Mm-hmm ... happy marriage.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know? Yeah. Uh, you know, Jeanne and I will quickly celebrate 46 years of marriage.
Sam Landrith: Yeah. And
Mike Glenn: everybody goes, "That's a long time." It's not.
Sam Landrith: Yeah, yeah.
Mike Glenn: It's not. It was j- You know, we look at each other and go, "40, what happened to, to, to, to all this time?"
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, with that. So, uh, talk to me about, um, how you're working...
Okay. When, when I was, uh, uh, pastoring the church, we had a huge emphasis on discipleship, and it was about getting the right information to people about Jesus.
Sam Landrith: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: So everybody who went to a Baptist church when I was a pastor was really good on Jesus trivia.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Mkay? So if we were on Jeopardy!, we killed the Jesus category.
Yeah. We, we [00:21:00] knew all that stuff. It never made the transition to a transformed life.
Sam Landrith: Hmm.
Mike Glenn: Okay? We had people with a lot of information, very little transformation.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Mkay? Now, Gen Z's coming in- Looking for the transformation, looking for the information that caused the transformation. You s- you- Yep ... does that make sense?
Yep. Absolutely. I wanna see that, but then I'll go find out what that's about.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? So how has discipleship, uh, changed in that I'm no longer trying to give information to people, I'm trying to identify and train leaders, and then release them to that ministry?
Sam Landrith: Yeah. You know, y- you've looked at church a long time- Mm-hmm
and everything goes in cycles, right? Mm-hmm. I, I think, I think in some ways, you know, we had, uh, you know, we had Sunday School- Mm-hmm ... which was all information. Mm-hmm. And then there was a period of time where it was like, "Hey, let's all get in houses- Right ... and let's get knee to knee in a circle and sing Kumbaya- That's [00:22:00] right
and be about relationships." Um, b- and I think one majored on community, a- and the other majored on maybe content or information. Mm-hmm. Um, I think somehow, like, you gotta put the two together. Mm-hmm. And I think you're even seeing a little bit of that come back, a hybrid approach, to say, how do we keep some of the good from Sunday School- Right
and not throw the baby out with the bath water, but how do we also go... Discipleship i- is so challenging, right? 'Cause it's not a cookie cutter. Everybody learns differently, and so there's generations that learn differently. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: There's- And everybody's called differently and everybody's designed differently.
Sam Landrith: Yeah. You know. Some would, some learn better by doing- Mm-hmm ... some learn better by listening. And so, um, I, I think the best way that we can, and we haven't mastered this by any means- Mm-hmm ... we're, we're trying to figure it out, um, you know, f- for us, is one, how, how can we get people to do life together and pour in and disciple, and, and honestly, too, keep the conversation from Sunday going?
Mm-hmm. How do we make it [00:23:00] where it's not just Sunday and then we leave? Mm-hmm. How do we keep that conversation going throughout the week, uh, to your workplace, to your home, and then, and then after the fact? But I think, I think it's gotta be some combination, because the other thing I think people are looking for right now, and I think the screen did a lot of this, um, it's all digital- Right
it's all social. Right. Uh, some of that performance we see is- Mm-hmm ... because of that, right? Mm-hmm. And, and, um, there's a church in, um, Arizona, uh, during COVID, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's actually, I think, maybe the second, third largest church in America, but they doubled down on space for people to be able to meet, uh, to be able to- Mm-hmm
eat after church- Mm-hmm ... a parking lot. Mm-hmm. Because they said this, they said, "Right now, everybody can get content. You can find content everywhere you want."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. "
Sam Landrith: But we've lost the idea of community." Of
Mike Glenn: community.
Sam Landrith: I think whatever way you can mesh those two, you can't replace relationships, no matter the age of- Mm-hmm
of the generation or what changes, so you gotta have that. But then two, how do we [00:24:00] also make sure that we're, we're still teaching the Bible? But we're not becoming Pharisees. Right. Now, the answer to that, I don't know, so I'm probably not giving you a great- ... a great answer. But I think it's trying to get people-
Mike Glenn: Well, we'll have you back and you can think about that.
That's
Sam Landrith: exactly right. We'll,
Mike Glenn: and we'll, you know.
Sam Landrith: A- and you know how it is. Right It's such a tough one. I, I think it's getting people with the people they're doing life with- Mm-hmm ... and, and going through, um-
Mike Glenn: Well, well, I think, I think you're wise in, in understanding that it is both, but what we emphasize at the moment would depend on who's in the group.
Sam Landrith: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: You know? Yeah. And there, there'd be a time when you would come in with heavy content. Mm-hmm. There'd be other times when you go easy on the content and really heavy on the relationship, depending on-
Sam Landrith: And I think so much
Mike Glenn: goes to the- ... the
Sam Landrith: place of the group ... to the leader training.
Mike Glenn: Right
Sam Landrith: Um, to, you know, it's, it's trying to go, hey, how can we make it informational and relational?
Mm-hmm. But then so much of that comes down to the, to the leader. Mm-hmm. And how many leaders are we raising up, how many leaders are we multiplying? And I would say probably a, [00:25:00] a lot of our gap, um, at least for us, you know, on discipleship-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: has been we have not had a great way to, uh, multiply leaders in a pipeline, and to call out those who are called, and to raise up those who can do that.
Mm-hmm. And, and so then we sit there and we go, "Man, they're ... How, how are we gonna take care of all these people?" Right. 'Cause we're seeing all these people come to know Christ. Mm-hmm. And there's, there's ways that we have to be able to d- raise up- Mm-hmm ... those leaders
Mike Glenn: faster and quicker. Well, you, you have transitioned to our next question.
Uh, it, you know, you and I talk about the future. Mm-hmm. There is a, uh, a huge gap-
Sam Landrith: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: of, of leaders available for the church in the future.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Uh, most of our pastors now are over 65 years old. We, uh, we don't have that many that are under 40.
Sam Landrith: Mm.
Mike Glenn: So, uh, what, what is, what is Sam's burden and, and thought process on how you identify-
Sam Landrith: Yeah
Mike Glenn: those and, and train those who are called to, to the [00:26:00] ministry?
Sam Landrith: Yeah. You know, I, I wouldn't say that we've developed a great process yet. Mm-hmm. Um, would love to see us do that. I know you guys are doing a lot of that. Um, but I, I think you're right, and we've talked before about this. There's a lot of people who are sitting in the seats-
Mike Glenn: Right
Sam Landrith: that are called. Mm-hmm. I think you even go back to where we started this conversation.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: I, I think somewhere along the way we went away from calling people at youth camp.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sam Landrith: And for me, it's like- Well,
Mike Glenn: every Sunday it was come to know Christ, join the church- Yeah ... or consider full-time.
Sam Landrith: Full-time ministry.
Minister, right. And see, I don't even hardly remember- Right ... that.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: Um, but I've heard that that call was there a lot. Yeah,
Mike Glenn: back in the old days.
Sam Landrith: I actually felt, uh, a, a call to do that in March.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Sam Landrith: And we saw people say, "Hey, I feel called-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: to full-time ministry." And so if we're never, if we're never making that, that invitation, but I think- Mm-hmm
I think even those times at youth camp, and the next generation- Mm-hmm ... and, and helping people see, I think too- You know, when it comes to seminary and all [00:27:00] that, it, it, you know, you're not seeing people go to seminary as much. Yeah. And so how are we creating ways for people to be, you know, residencies, internships, figure out if they have that call- Give them the
Mike Glenn: school of ministry, the engaged church-
Sam Landrith: Exactly
member
Mike Glenn: church school in the ministry.
Sam Landrith: Yes. That
Mike Glenn: would be a, a good-
Sam Landrith: That's exactly right ... resource. Yeah What's that, what's that pathway now- Yeah, how, how do we train them? ... whereas the old way was, "Hey, go to seminary- Go away for three
Mike Glenn: years ...
Sam Landrith: and then come back out." Mm-hmm. Um, and, and you know, you're right. I mean, I, I talked to- I preached at a church in West Tennessee, McKenzie- Mm-hmm
and they're looking for a pastor.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Uh,
Sam Landrith: it's hard for them to find one. Mm-hmm. I had a church in East Tennessee the other day, uh, asking me. They've been looking for over a year, and the list goes on- Right ... of churches that are looking. Um, my heart, um, one day what I hope, uh, is come alongside guys like you, uh, is more for our state.
I've always said- Yeah ... "Hey, we can't do everything."
Mike Glenn: Well, that's why we have- But
Sam Landrith: we can do something ... the Middle Tennessee
Mike Glenn: Initiative. We wanna-
Sam Landrith: Absolutely ... w- we
Mike Glenn: wanna hit that area.
Sam Landrith: And so I think there's ways [00:28:00] that we can, uh, begin to raise up the next generation- Mm-hmm ... begin to call out- Mm-hmm ... those who have a call, and to begin to send those out and, and to even help them, uh, in that sending, just like you guys are doing.
Right. Because you, it, it... if you go to one of those towns that I just mentioned, man, you're on an island.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, you don't, you don't know who to call.
Sam Landrith: It's, I mean, it's tough.
Mike Glenn: And, and, and what it would be to have a network where every so often three or four of us came to visit you.
Sam Landrith: Yeah, yeah.
Mike Glenn: Tell us what you're doing.
Let's learn from you. And w- Mm-hmm ... and between Sam and me, you said we've seen everything, so, so, so what would that mean? So yeah, there's- Yeah ... there's, um...
Sam Landrith: I think you're seeing a lot of churches develop- Yeah ... their own school of ministry- Mm-hmm ... which I think is a good thing. They're blending the two, the practical and the-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
Sam Landrith: the theology. But I think the church has to go, "Hey," I think we almost gave the seminaries our job.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sam Landrith: Then the seminaries weren't pumping out what we, what we needed. Yeah. And then we had created this vacuum, and now the church is trying [00:29:00] to go- And fit,
Mike Glenn: fill it again ...
Sam Landrith: how do we do this
Mike Glenn: again? Right, right.
It's all going back to, to the local church.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: The other thing I, that, um, that, that I found interesting is that everybody thought that my life sucked. You know? Yeah. They would, they would- Yeah ... tell me all the time, "Well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't do what you do, man." Yeah. "How, how do you do what you do?" Yeah.
And I'm sitting there thinking, "I wouldn't do what you do." That's right. And that, you, gosh- That's right ... you sit in a little cubicle. Mm-hmm. You sit in an office. Yeah. I'd, I'd be bored out of my mind-
Sam Landrith: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: uh, with that. I, and I would, I got, when I tell people, I said, "Yeah, it, yeah, there are moments, but I wanna tell you something.
You don't get to see what I see."
Sam Landrith: Yeah. That's
Mike Glenn: right. You don't get to be part of what I'm part of."
Sam Landrith: That's right.
Mike Glenn: And, and there are moments, man, where you see God do stuff, and it's like, oh. One time- This lady had had an affair. Mm. She was gonna tell her husband and she wanted to do it in my office 'cause she was afraid [00:30:00] of him.
Sam Landrith: Mm.
Mike Glenn: Oh, okay.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know. Well, she starts telling him what's going on, and she's sorry, and she wants to stop. And you remember in cartoons where guys would fall apart in chunks?
Sam Landrith: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: That's what this guy did.
Sam Landrith: Mm.
Mike Glenn: He just fell in chunks-
Sam Landrith: Mm ...
Mike Glenn: to where he's on all four, sobbing-
Sam Landrith: Mm ...
Mike Glenn: on the, the floor- Yeah ... in my office.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And she's trying to tell him, you know, "I'm sorry," and da, da, da, da, da, and buddy, just like lightning-
Sam Landrith: Mm ...
Mike Glenn: I saw his body stiffen, and he got up on his knees, and he stood up. He sat down next to his wife. He took his hands w- uh, his wife's hands, he looked at her, and he said, "This is not God's will for our family."
Sam Landrith: Mm. Wow. Wow.
Mike Glenn: And I'm, I, I, I'm supposed to be the one with wise [00:31:00] words, right? I got nothing. I got nothing. Yeah. You're in awe right now. And he looks at me and he says, "I refuse for this to be the last word of our family." Wow. "This will not be."
Sam Landrith: Man.
Mike Glenn: And they started working the process. Now they're happily married.
Unbelievable. But, but, but I tell people, I said, "You don't, you don't get to see that." Mm.
Sam Landrith: Unbelievable.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. I get- Unbelievable ... I get to see that all the time. Yeah. And in fact, you know, and, and you know, you've only been there three years- Mm ... but even now, you stand up in front of your congregation and you go, "I know that story."
Sam Landrith: Yeah. "
Mike Glenn: I know that story." Yeah. "I know that story."
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know? And sometimes it's all you can do just to not laugh out loud of what God has done- Yeah ... in your congregation that nobody else knows.
Sam Landrith: Yeah. Yeah, and it, and it's, it's that realization of I had nothing to do with that. I had
Mike Glenn: nothing to do with this.
Sam Landrith: You know? But,
Mike Glenn: but l- the Lord let me come in and watch
Sam Landrith: this. That's exactly right. And I, I think you're right, too- Yeah ... uh, Mike. I think we have to be careful. Um, I've sat in a lot of [00:32:00] rooms where it's like, are we at a funeral?
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Sam Landrith: Or do we have any joy-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ...
Sam Landrith: in the call?
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Sam Landrith: And I, I think, like you said, I, I, I tell our staff all the time, I say, "Guys, yes, are there things that are hard and tough?
Absolutely." I said, "But I never wanna be one of those pastors that complains-
Mike Glenn: Oh, man ...
Sam Landrith: about his calling all the
Mike Glenn: time." Yes, there are thorns, but man, that's, that's what you get with a rose, you know? '
Sam Landrith: Cause you're right. When you look out and, like, you see this lady that, uh, that... You know, right now we have names on our walls.
Mm-hmm. People have been writing names in Sharpies- Mm-hmm ... and we pray over them. We're praying they come off the wall and into the room. Mm-hmm. Uh, she was a lady's hairdresser for 12 years. She'd been inviting her. Uh, she's from Iran, and she comes to a service, gives her life to Jesus. Mm. Just got baptized.
Yeah. Uh, we had David Nasser there not long ago, who's from Iran as well, and they're talking after. Yeah. And you're like, "Only God- That's
Mike Glenn: right.
Sam Landrith: Yeah ... can put that story together." And you could go down the list of, you know, we, we, we preached a Fight For Your Family series.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: Lady stops me [00:33:00] in the lobby.
She says, "Hey, uh, uh, we had the divorce papers. They were signed, and hey, we're ripping them up because we're fighting for our family now." Yeah. You know, we, we had another lady that on a Sunday and, and, uh, there was a... She had come down, and someone had given her a, a, you know, you know, for the charismatics out there- Mm-hmm
somebody had given her a, a, a bottle of anointing oil.
Mike Glenn: Right, yeah.
Sam Landrith: She comes up to one of our pastors, it was his first day, and she said, "Hey, what do I do with this?" And he began to ask her story.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: Turns out this lady had been involved in witchcraft. She'd been practicing stuff at home. Oh. She's coming to church.
She's trying... It... Only God-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ...
Sam Landrith: can set those kind of people free, do those- Mm-hmm ... kind of works, do those kind of miracles. And like you said, there's a great, great... The good far outweighs the bad.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Sam Landrith: Right?
Mike Glenn: Oh, gosh. Yeah.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Oh, g- Yeah ... I, and I, nobody had a better ride than I did.
Sam Landrith: Yeah, yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know? And, uh, you know, and, and we would go to a conference and, and, uh, and, and a friend [00:34:00] would say, "What'd you learn?"
I said, "I learned how good it is to be at my church." Yeah, yeah.
Sam Landrith: That's
Mike Glenn: h- that's what I learned. I really couldn't- Do you think- ...
Sam Landrith: wait to
Mike Glenn: get back here, so. And,
Sam Landrith: and I know I'm on your, your podcast, but do you think, as we're talking about this, there's a lot of guys that when we talk about this performance, presence- Right, right
all this stuff, platform, complaining, they, they aren't so much wanting to be the pastor of their church as they are just have a platform-
Mike Glenn: Right ...
Sam Landrith: beyond their church. Yeah. And that's causing some of that?
Mike Glenn: Yeah, yeah, sure it is. Sure it is. Yeah. Because, um, I, I, you know, I tell people, uh, when I tell the story about gifts- Mm
everybody's got a gift. Everybody's got a place. I said, "Everybody has made the mistake in a Baptist church of walking down the wrong hall." Okay? And you get pulled into the preschool department. Yeah. "Hey, we're short. You can stay." And you end up being the preschool, right? That's right. You have no gifts in preschool.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, and so what you do is you start counting Sundays.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay, only 51 more Sundays, then I don't have to do this anymore. Only [00:35:00] 48 more on Sunday. And you start counting Sundays. Now, when your time is up, one, you don't go down that hall anymore. But not only do you not volunteer to be in a preschool anymore, you don't volunteer for anything.
Because you got in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing. Worse, what does that child think? Why doesn't Sam love me? Mm. Why does Sam not like being here with me?
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And how that then damages the understanding o- of, of what they believe about God, what they begin to think about God, even in that young mind, because you m- you had the person and you had the wrong person-
Sam Landrith: Yeah
Mike Glenn: i- i- i- in, in, in the wrong place. Uh, I have a friend in South Carolina who is the worst preacher. I- if you and I went to... We would... Gosh, this... I've, I've literally seen him go, "I'm out of time. Here's what I want you to do." And that was the invitation. So, you know, I'm going, "What? Transitions and all [00:36:00] that." But this guy loved that church- Mm
so fiercely.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: It, it, it's the, the thing that I've always learned from him. Uh, and that the church knew it, and they gave him permission to say anything he wanted to say-
Sam Landrith: Mm ...
Mike Glenn: because of the way he loved them.
Sam Landrith: Wow.
Mike Glenn: You know, when, "Hush now, Dixon gonna say something to me." Yeah. And, and I took it as someone who would, who would literally give their life for me.
So the truth, uh, even as clumsy as he said it, had a, a, a life-transforming impact.
Sam Landrith: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And I think a lot of people show up in our churches and the, the first question they're asking, "Is there anybody in here who will love me?"
Sam Landrith: Mm. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: That's- You know ... that's a really good question ... everywhere else I'm being used.
Everywhere else I'm a, I'm a product. Everything else I'm a consumer. Yeah. Well, there's anybody here that, that will... Which, which happens most of the time at a [00:37:00] table.
Sam Landrith: That's eye-opening, too, 'cause we- Yeah ... as, as preachers, you know, we're- Yeah ... we're thinking about the message- That's right. Yeah ... and the worship and-
Mike Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
And, you
Sam Landrith: know- And at the end of the day, it's, what is that old line, too? Like, the first seven minutes determine- Right ... if they're coming back. So it hasn't even... Did, did they know they were loved in the parking lot- Yeah ... at the doors? Did
Mike Glenn: they know they were loved in the parking lot- Yeah ... didn't they? You know.
And I, and I would have, uh, I would have people come up and go, "Hey, do you know why we joined your church?" No. "We have a special needs son who has- Yeah ... who has autism. He- Mm ... and we've been told by churches, 'We don't know how to handle your son,' and all that. Do you know Bobby?" Mm. And they would name a guy, and I said, "Yeah."
Said, "Our kid loves him."
Sam Landrith: Wow.
Mike Glenn: You know? I said, "Oh, gosh, don't tell me that. I have to live with this guy after. Now you, you are bragging on him." Yeah. But he said, he said, "When we drove by this church, we came and we visited and we drove by this church and our son pointed at, out through the [00:38:00] window to the church and go, 'That's Mr.
Bobby's church.'"
Sam Landrith: Mm.
Mike Glenn: I wanna go to Mr. Bobby's church." And he said, "We come because of..." Nothing to do with me.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Nothing to do with my great message that I spent all that time on.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Bobby loved their kid.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: That's good. So, so as mom and dad, we'll put up with anything if-
Sam Landrith: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: if somebody, somebody loves our kid.
Mm-hmm. What's excite- s- what's, uh, exciting for Sam right now?
Sam Landrith: You know, I, I just, uh, I've always had a heart for evangelism. Mm-hmm. And so when we talked earlier about right now-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: it's just a great time to share the gospel. Um, o- you know, I, I think what's great right now is God's been blessing us with that and, and we're, we're seeing that.
Um, it's just one of those seasons where we're seeing people respond. Mm-hmm. And I think it's a great opportunity, not just for us- All right. Let me,
Mike Glenn: let me, let me push you a little bit on that.
Sam Landrith: Yeah,
Mike Glenn: yeah. Okay.
Sam Landrith: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, one, one of the... You know, I've been here a long time. Yeah. And, [00:39:00] and when I, when I tell people this-
Sam Landrith: Yeah
Mike Glenn: we have this group of spiritual gypsies that float from church to church to church. Yeah. Okay? So while you would say, "Oh, this church is growing."
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And every- and for every growing church you would point me to, I can point you to 10 that are dying.
Sam Landrith: Uh, yeah.
Mike Glenn: So it's not so much that we're winning people to Christ.
Mm-hmm. They're not, there are not more Christians in Nashville.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Okay? You d- you understand what I'm saying? Yeah. They're just moving from place to place.
Sam Landrith: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And so, you know, it's, it's almost a, a cannibalistic evangelism.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: You know? I, w- we're just stealing sheep. Yeah. We're not reaching a, a lost world.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: A- and I know your heart for evangelism- Mm ... means I wanna reach that lost person. I wanna reach- Yeah ... the hairdresser.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And I wanna see them, them come to a, to the, the, the life-transforming relationship with Christ.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So i- talk to me about that- Yeah ... emphasis.
Sam Landrith: Yeah. I, I think you're exactly right, especially in Middle Tennessee.
Right. Um, you know, [00:40:00] from church to church. Mm-hmm. And, and, you know, I laugh with some of the guys that say we're just trading people- Yeah ... back and forth, you know? Right. Um, but, uh, you know, you're trying for us as well not to just look at transfer growth-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: but to look at conversion growth. And to go, okay, how m- how many people are we actually seeing profess faith in Christ?
Mm-hmm. Uh, give their life to Jesus? How many are we seeing actually get baptized? Uh, and what does that look like? And, and how do we get it into the DNA, the culture of the church? You know, we, we use this word a lot, uh, uh, these, this phrase, one more. Mm-hmm. Who's your one more? Mm-hmm. Uh, who, who's the, who's the closest person to you that's the farthest from God?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: So on our walls right now, you know, we just said, hey, we wanna be more, uh, we wanna care more about, uh, you know, uh, the cost of, uh, we wanna care more about the cost of, of not forgetting the mission-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: than the cost it takes to repaint the walls.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: So for this season, [00:41:00] man, write that one more down.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: On that wall, pray over them, and right now you can, you can go around the wall and you can find, like, where it'll say, "My husband," and it'll have a date next to it. And then you'll see someone else's name, and you'll see a date next to it. Yeah. And, and when we started, there was none of that, but now...
So when that girl from Iran who was the hairdresser, um, th- that day she's up praying with a couple. They stop me and they said, "Hey, she just came to know the Lord. She was our person on the wall. We're taking her right now to her name, and we're marking it out and putting the date next to it." Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah.
And so, I, to tell those stories-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: try to keep that at the forefront. And to your point, what we forget is we get so lost in people going from church to church. Mm-hmm. Um, there's a lot of times for me, a- and again, we're, we're fine if people come, but I, I'm trying to sometimes go back and go, "Hey, how are we making sure-
Mike Glenn: Right
Sam Landrith: that we're not just trying to make someone happy or say, 'Hey, we offer this [00:42:00] program, so come here,' and they don't." Mm-hmm. But, like, how are we actually reaching lost people?
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: What are we doing to do that? What are we seeing in that? And if we're not seeing that, uh, what good is that growth really at the end of the day?
Mm-hmm. Because if we're not seeing any of that... And, and, and some of that for us too, Mike, is the next generation we know, right? Most people come to know Christ before 18.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Sam Landrith: But then I try to take that as well and go, we wanna be heavy evangelistic there, but then, man, we wanna see adults too.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Yeah.
Sam Landrith: So what does it look like for adults? What does it look like in that area? Mm-hmm. What events are targeted at that? So we just did a men's event. Um, and that night it was a, a, you know, we did all kinds of stuff, but then, um, I don't normally do it, I preached that night, but then we were doing a straight up gospel invitation, come down.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: Um, and we challenged men to go, to go find a man that normally wouldn't go to church-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Sam Landrith: that would come to that. So I think it's, for us, um, we'll do some things throughout the year. [00:43:00] We're always trying to get people to share it on their own.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: Um, but at the same time, if we can at least just...
I, I think we get so busy. I, I'm guilty of this. We don't even recognize who God is placing around us- Mm-hmm ... every week. Mm-hmm. And, and I feel bad because in, in so many ways, I ca- say that about evangelism, and I share the gospel way more on stage than I do off stage- Mm-hmm ... and it should be the opposite.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Sam Landrith: Because everywhere I'm going, God's placing someone in front of me. A- and I think a lot of people, um, they get busy.
Mike Glenn: Well, and, and especially in the ministry- Yeah ... we get, we get to thinking that, that working for Jesus-
Sam Landrith: Yeah ...
Mike Glenn: is the same thing as working with Jesus.
Sam Landrith: That's right. That's right.
Mike Glenn: And it's not.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. It's a very, very different understanding. What do you wish church people understood about Sam as pastor?
Sam Landrith: Oh. Pr- you know, I, I think that, um- Any leadership, right-
Mike Glenn: Yeah ...
Sam Landrith: y- you lose the [00:44:00] right to be understood. And so, uh, I, I think just knowing, hey, at the end of the day, um, we're praying.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Sam Landrith: We're, we're asking God, and- Well-
and, and we're making the decisions we think are best, just like they would- Yeah ... somewhere else.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Let, let me, let me give you one of the highest compliments I can give you. For your father, we would say he's just, he's just Dave.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: For you, what I'd want your church to know is he's just Sam.
Sam Landrith: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Good deal.
Sam Landrith: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: This is Sam Landreth. He is the pastor of Thompson Station Baptist Church. It's just, uh, it, it, Thompson Station Church. That's it. Thompson Station Church. Yeah. Thompson Station Church. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, um, been there three years now, doing a great job, and we're glad to have you. We gotta have you back, but thanks for being here.
Sam Landrith: Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah. It was, it was an [00:45:00] honor.
