The Art & Struggle of Week-to-Week Preaching | Mike Glenn & Matt Pearson
In this episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast, Mike Glenn sits down with Matt Pearson, Lead Pastor of West Franklin Baptist Church, for a candid and practical conversation on the art and reality of preaching. With a PhD in preaching and over a decade of pastoral experience, Matt brings both academic insight and real-world wisdom to the table.
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Mike Glenn: Hi, thanks for joining us on today's podcast. I'm Mike Glenn, the president of the Engaged Church Network, and joining us today is my friend Matt Pearson. Matt is the pastor of West Franklin Baptist Church, having been there for- 10 years ... 10 years now? Yeah. Good grief, I'm getting old. Time is just flying by too fast.
Yeah. Matt is a native of Alabama, uh, went to Auburn- ... and, uh, from there to, uh, seminary at New Orleans, getting his PhD in preaching from Mid-America Seminary. Uh, Matt has, uh, uh, [00:01:00] has, has been a good friend. He is a, a great colleague, good person to hang around with. But... And one of the reasons I love hanging around with him is he's as passionate about preaching as I am.
Mm-hmm. And so I thought we would spend a few minutes talking together about the difference between, uh, the academic understanding of preaching, and then actually what you have to do in the craft of preaching. Mm. Uh, one of the things that, that we're both passionate about is I don't think enough pastors spend enough time working on the craft- Mm
of, of preaching. So, well, welcome Matt, glad you're here. Uh, thanks for having me. So, um- Good to be here ... so you get your PhD in preaching. What was your actual PhD writing about? I don't wanna bore your
Matt Pearson: audience.
Mike Glenn: So-
Matt Pearson: I'll try to stay awake during the dis- Well, one of the things I wished I would've done would've been working towards my dissertation the whole time- Right
which I didn't, I did not do. Um, so when it got to dissertation time, I [00:02:00] was just kinda stuck. Mm-hmm. What, what do we do? Um, and I was reading a, I was reading a history of preaching book for one of my seminars, and I remember reading, uh, about a guy named Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrus, who pastored at the same time, uh, like a half dozen different churches.
Right. And, you know, just kinda did the, uh- Worked the circuit ... worked the circuit. And the, this passing comment was something along the lines of thousands of people were led to Christ under his preaching-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Matt Pearson: as he went and did the circuit. And so I asked my supervisor, uh, advisor, I said, um, "I really don't know what to do.
Can I just research this guy's preaching and see if there's any, enough information there for me to do it, and if, if there's any connection between what he preached and the f- uh, gospel fruit that he saw?"
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Matt Pearson: And my advisor said, "Sure." And so I don't remember the [00:03:00] exact title of the dissertation, but it's-
the evangelistic efforts of the preaching of Theodore, Bishop of Cyrus.
Mike Glenn: That's not, not, not, not a big, uh, uh, competition there, huh? I mean- No, no, no, no, no, no ... there not, not, not a whole lot of books written up. However, if
Matt Pearson: you're having trouble sleeping at night- ... I will let you have a copy of my dissertation.
Well, what did you find out about the preaching of this bishop? Uh, believe it or not, if you preach the gospel, people respond. Um, there w- there wasn't tons and tons about his preaching, but I do remember there being a lot of commentaries on Bible books that he wrote, a lot of Old Testament-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
Matt Pearson: commentaries. And so I would read these, and he would make these unique connections from nowhere Chronicles- Right ... in Chronicles to Christ. Right. And so one of my main takeaways was if you preach and teach and show your people how the Bible connects to the person of Jesus Christ week in and week out- Mm-hmm
especially people who've never heard it before, are gonna be drawn, [00:04:00] drawn to Jesus. Mm-hmm. So. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. That was w- that was one of my big aha moments. Mm. You heard me talk about it. The time in Kairos when we were trying to get that worship service started, and we were kinda rolling around a lead balloon.
Hmm. And, uh, and I sat down with a group of guys and I said, "What are you looking for? I mean, we can throw a lot of different pitches, but what we're throwing's not working." I remember the guy looking at me, he said, "Read it, tell me what it means, tell me how I do it." Hmm. I'm going, "Well- ... that's not creative."
Mm-hmm. He said, "No." Mm-hmm. "No, it's not, but we've never heard this before." Mm-hmm. Mm. So the basic preaching of the gospel- Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah ... uh, is something that, that creatives like me go, "Come on, I need to say this a different way." Mm-hmm. "I need to find that different, that unique angle." Mm-hmm. No. Yeah. You just, you just need to preach the gospel.
Yeah. So you have a PhD. You're a real smart boy. And, um, uh, and now you're in your, you're, you're, you're in the pulpit every [00:05:00] Sunday. Mm-hmm. So what's the discrepancy, what's the breakdown between what we learn in the academic study of preaching and then what we learn in the practice of day-in- ... and day-out preaching?
Matt Pearson: Well, that's, that could probably be a book title. Yeah. Uh, maybe, maybe it needs to be. Um, you know, in seminary you learn the, um, um, the basics. You learn the m- uh, the models. Um, the, the, the academic level of, okay, here's, here's a passage of scripture. Here's how you exegete it Here's how you put it in sermon form, and here's how you present it.
And, and there seem- it's not cookie cutter, but it kinda is. Right. Uh, because you gotta, you gotta learn the basics. Mm-hmm. You gotta learn the basics of preaching. And by exegesis, I think your audience probably knows this, it means, uh, take out what's in the text. Right. Don't put in the text your own opinion- Mm-hmm
but take out what's in the text. And so you're just, y- in seminary you're learning, uh, yes, of course, [00:06:00] step one, step two, step three. But if you're not careful, you think, "Okay, well this is the only way to preach." Right. Uh, and back when I was going through seminary, um, it was kind of three points and a poem.
Mm-hmm. You've got Ephesians 3:14-21, let's, let's deduct three points from this. Mm-hmm. Explain it, illustrate it, apply it. Another point, explain it, illustrate it, apply it, and then bring your conclusion- Right ... and call for a response. Mm-hmm. Um, and so that's the, that's the basics. Then you get in the, in the, uh, pulpit in front of a congregation week after week after week, and you find out that if you do that every week, that same thing every week- Right
you're gonna bore them to tears. Right. Um, and so there's this, y- I'm grateful for my seminary experience, but what it didn't teach me, I don't think it's anybody's fault, I don't think you can help it. But what [00:07:00] it didn't teach me was that, you know, there's some things in the text that the Spirit's doing in you.
Right. And there's some things in the text that the Spirit's doing in the congregation. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't mean you're not preaching the essence of the text, but there may be an aspect of the text that you need to camp out on. Yeah, a different facet- Exactly ... of the diamond. Right. Exactly. Mm-hmm.
Whereas I was, and I'm, I'm grateful for this, where I was told, "Okay, you need to figure out why Luke inspired Luke chapter 3 verses whatever." Mm-hmm. "And then preach that to your people," which I'm for. But if you're not careful, you're not paying attention to what the Spirit's doing in you and in your congregation.
Right. Yeah, the, the part of, of your
Mike Glenn: process that, that was left out, and that we all learn, is you have to exegete your congregation. Yes. Yes, yes. Okay. Yes. Where, where, and, and we know this from the campuses we have. If you preach at West Franklin, it's very different than preaching at Brentwood, certainly very different than preaching at Lockland Springs.
Very [00:08:00] different. Don't... You know, you can take the same subject matter- Mm-hmm ... but you can't
Matt Pearson: throw the pitch
Mike Glenn: the same way.
Matt Pearson: Right, right. I can just imagine if I were preaching in Lockland Springs there in the end of 2024- Right ... and I were to say some things about Trump- Right ... in a positive way. Mm-hmm. If I said it at my cur- church, my campus- Standing ovation My church- Yeah
church growth boo- ... movements would be calling me. If I said it at Lockland Springs- That's right ... they'd be wanting to toss me off a cliff. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's general. Yeah. I know that, but, but yeah. Yeah, there's different, different, uh, different contexts. And the exegeting of the congregation is critical.
Not, not exegeting people in general. That's important- Right ... but exegeting your people, your people. Okay.
Mike Glenn: So how do you do that? Talk to me about how you do that.
Matt Pearson: Coffee and pie, as I had a wise sage once- Wise
Mike Glenn: mentor tell you right?
Matt Pearson: Um, yeah. That's a phrase I, I stole from you, but, uh, a lot of, [00:09:00] a, if not all of it, has to do with just being with your people.
Mm-hmm. Uh, shepherds smell like their sheep. Right. And you, you take them to lunch, take them to coffee. Uh, when they invite you to something and you're able, go. Mm-hmm. Listen. Uh, listen more than talk. Um, find out what their interests are, find out what their fears are. Mm-hmm. Uh, find out what they're nervous about, what's going on in their life.
You cannot do that behind a closed door in your- Right, in your office ... in your office, day in and day out. Mm-hmm. An- another way, and I tell my team this on a regular basis, um, we- our first service starts at 9:00. And so I, I say, "If you're in your office at 8:30, that's a problem." Right. Because the people that you're to minister to are here.
Mm-hmm. They're getting here. Mm-hmm. And so that's another, uh, just a small way.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, I found out I could do about 95% of my pastoral care just walking around the sanctuary- ... on Sunday morning.
Matt Pearson: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. I mean, it would be just, "Hey, saw your name on the prayer list." Yeah. "Your mom, how's she [00:10:00] doing?" Yeah. Huge.
And, and it was just-
Matt Pearson: Huge. Yeah ... it was just huge. Yep. And, uh, it'll mean a lot to them, and you'll learn more. And a lot of times, I don't know if this was true for you, but you can learn a lot about the tone of the morning- Right. Right ... just by interacting with your people before the service even starts.
Mm-hmm. Um, not that you, not that you change your sermon on the fly, which- Sometimes you do ... every now and then, yeah, but- Sometimes you do ... um- And sometimes
Mike Glenn: you adjust the context ... mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You slow down on this point. Right. You speed on, s- Right ... you
Matt Pearson: speed up on another
Mike Glenn: point. Right.
Matt Pearson: Well, this past week, um...
Well, let me back up. There's this gentleman in our congregation that had been pray- begging, begging God to save his dad. It's this older man. Yeah. He's not gonna make it much longer. His dad doesn't want anything to do with church. Mm-hmm. Long story, ugly story. Um, uh, but he came up to me before the second service, said, "You're not gonna believe this.
My dad's coming to church today." And so m- my basic sermon was the same, but there was a couple of points I emphasized a little bit [00:11:00] harder because- Right ... I knew he was there. Because he's ... Right. Yeah. That's right.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. And it would be malpractice
Matt Pearson: not to. Correct. Yeah. Correct. To stay focused. And I think early on in my ministry, again, uh, seminary didn't not teach me this per se, but it was more a focus on- Um, make sure you don't mess up the passage, which I'm fully for.
Mm-hmm. But more focused on that as opposed to how are the truths from the passage impacting the congregation right here? Right.
Mike Glenn: Does, does that make sense? And we, well, we went through a time where people would just kinda drive by the scripture. Yeah, don't wanna do that either. And then, and then preach their own- Thing.
Mm-hmm ... uh, message. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it was biblical, and sometimes- Mm-hmm ... it wasn't. Mm-hmm. And so we had a lot of messed up people out there because of the laziness or of the arrogance- Mm-hmm ... I guess you would say-
Matt Pearson: Mm-hmm,
Mike Glenn: yeah ... of local preachers. So we had a reaction. You know, it's the text, it's the text, it's the text.
Mm-hmm. Don't, don't, don't leave the text. Mm-hmm. And, and you'd leave the [00:12:00] congregation- Out of it ... out of it. Mm-hmm. Okay? Yeah. So what have you learned about the craft of, of preaching?
Matt Pearson: It's okay if it's different every week- Mm-hmm ... one. Mm-hmm. Probably should be for the sake of your hearers. Mm-hmm. Um, I've learned that
Well, I personally have gotten away from points. Um- Okay,
Mike Glenn: interesting. Why? In my
Matt Pearson: m- in my mind, I think they're there. Mm-hmm. But as far as saying, "Okay, number one-" Mm-hmm ... I've kinda gotten away from that. I'm not sure why, other than-
Mike Glenn: Well, we found out, you know, for a long time people would go the one, two, three- Mm-hmm
and, uh, and f- have a little s- blank to fill out. Mm-hmm. What we found out was that people would listen to your first sentence, then stop listening- Mm ... until you said, "Now my second point is,"- Mm ... and they would write that down. Ah. So they would have all three words right.
Matt Pearson: Huh. But they weren't paying attention to the meat.
But they had listened to
Mike Glenn: three sentences.
Matt Pearson: Yeah, yeah. And I, I can say I probably did that- Yeah, sure ... growing up when I was listening to people. I'd make sure I get this right- Yeah ... in case Mama looks at my outline later. That's right. Yeah. Um, but [00:13:00] so yeah, I, uh, as far as the craft of preaching, that's such a, such a big and good question.
Uh, there, there'll be times I'll say, "There, there, here are four things I wanna ... Or here are four realities I wanna make sure you see from this." Mm-hmm. But that's become more and more rare. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't wanna say one point preaching per se, because that has a, a, a lot of people think, immediately think Andy Stanley- Right
which is, which is fine. But more of a, okay, here's the, here's the main thing I wanna make sure I communicate. Right. The main point, the main theological. The, the ... Here's what I'll ... If somebody were to get in the car- after church and then call someone and that person say, "What'd that, what'd the pastor talk about today?"
They'd be able to say, "Here's what, here's what it is." You want to be that one sentence, yeah. And so, um, that takes 20, 25, 30 minutes to unpack the text, but here's where I'm really going with it. Mm-hmm. Whereas before, it would be more like, "I wanna make sure they get these four or five things down pat," and they're just not- Yeah, they're not gonna do it.
Uh-uh. Mm-mm. They're not, they're, they're gonna walk
Mike Glenn: out with one thing.
Matt Pearson: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: So- So [00:14:00] that's, that's, that's changed for me ... but you remember we had the TED coach come.
Matt Pearson: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Right. Yeah. Uh, uh, Nashville had a TED, uh, uh, conference, and we got the, we got one of the coaches to come over to spend some time with us.
She was brutal. She was.
Matt Pearson: She was brutal, Chad. She was. Um, and gave us a book and said, "Read this. You need it." Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And she
Matt Pearson: was right.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. And she, she- Her, her big thing was people are gonna walk out with one thing. Mm-hmm. And you get to choose what they walk out with. Mm-hmm. So make sure they're walking out with- Mm-hmm.
Yeah ... what you
Matt Pearson: wanted them
Mike Glenn: to
Matt Pearson: walk out with. Yeah. A- and when you think about it, I would much rather them have one thing week after week after week- Right ... than me dump 10 things in their lap, and they m- them have tons of information written down in a notebook somewhere. Right. But nothing in here. Nothing here.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And, and, you know, y- you can build on this. We're gon- y- you gonna preach more than one Sunday. Mm-hmm.
Matt Pearson: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And you can, you can build on these truths- Right. Right ... uh, t- to make them a good, a good foundation. Mm-hmm. So, so let's, let's break down the sermon, uh, for a little bit. Mm-hmm. What have you learned about introductions?[00:15:00]
Matt Pearson: I've learned that it's ... I don't always have to do this now that I've been here 10 years. Congregation knows me. But by and large, I try to do this at least 80 to 90% of the time. I feel like I have to buy the right to take them to the next level. Meaning, if they don't ... If, if it's not early in the sermon- Mm-hmm
me saying, "This is why this matters to you"- Mm-hmm ... they're done. Mm-hmm. Um, so sometimes that means, uh, uh, I, I, I always start by reading the text, praying, and then getting right into it. A lot of times, that starts off with, um, the current event. Mm-hmm. Um, a personal illustration. I, I ... If I don't hook them at the beginning- Mm-hmm
they're done. Yeah. Um, they're not gonna ... They're gonna check their phone. They're gonna pull it out and say, "Okay, what do I have
Mike Glenn: this week?" Yeah. Um- There are some studies that show that we [00:16:00] have 90 seconds to establish a point of concern. Mm. And if you don't do it in those first 90 seconds- Mm ... they grab their phone.
Yeah, yeah. This doesn't have a thing to do with me. Yeah, yeah.
Matt Pearson: Now, I've, I've noticed that when I preach passages such as David and Bathsheba- I don't have to start with a story. Mm-hmm. Or start with a grabbing illustration. Because they're, they're stories. Because they're like, they're like, "Oh, this is about adultery-"
and murder and cheating and lying." And so they're, they're there. Yeah. Doesn't mean I don't have to. Right. I mean, I don't, um, uh, it's, it's, it's okay if you do, but I learned my people are already there on stories like that. Right. Uh, but this Sunday it's Romans chapter six, and I'm gonna read the text and pray, and they're probably gonna be like...
And so, so I better be ready to grab 'em- Yeah. Right, right ... from the start. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And tell 'em wh- and tell 'em why it matters. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Call to action. Mm-hmm. Conclusion.
Matt Pearson: Mm-hmm. It really depends on the text and what I'm, what I'm seeing happen in the text. Mm-hmm. Um, there, there have been...
Right now I'm preaching through u- uh, the doctrine of union with Christ. It's the [00:17:00] things your pastor wants you to know series. Mm-hmm. Brentwood campuses, every year the, uh, the different campus pastors get to get four or five weeks to choose what they want to preach to their congregation. Um, and so a l- these have been, this'll be my third week in that, and they've been more of a, "Okay, this is real.
Christ is in you." Mm-hmm. And one of the ways we've seen the Apostle Paul try to get it into his people is he prayed. Mm-hmm. And so here are some prayers. I want you to, Ephesians 3:17 through 19, pray this for you. Mm-hmm. Pray this for our congregation. Last week was, uh, abide in the vine. Right. Um, where are you abiding mostly?
And what are some small tweaks you can make in your life to where you're actually abiding in Christ? Mm-hmm. Little things like that. So it depends on where, on where I'm going. Yeah. Um, I try not to give 'em... I, I don't wanna be one of those people, one of those pastors, and I may be wrong for this, but I, I don't wanna be one of those pastors that's constantly giving them [00:18:00] more and more stuff to do- Mm-hmm
just to be busy. But if it, if it, if it's something more and more r- uh, that helps nurture their soul, I guess that goes without saying. But I, maybe you know what I mean by that. Yeah. Um, but yeah, just all, it all depends on what I think the congregation needs based on what the text is. Yeah. What has surprised you about preaching?
I'm surprised that people are actually hungry for the word. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm surprised at how low the bar is. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah,
Matt Pearson: that's
Mike Glenn: what I- It takes- Jeanie would always say, "How do you handle these compliments?" And I said, "What? Like what?" She said like, "That was a great sermon." I said, "Oh, you have to understand what they're saying."
Hmm. They're really saying, "I stayed awake the whole time." Exactly. Exactly. You know? Exactly. "You had a point. I followed it." That... Yes. I,
Matt Pearson: I, I was tracking with you. That's right. Yeah. Um, but, but it's, it's real life. Yeah, it really is. Uh, and, and it, it surprised me. I was surprised on Easter, and I, I hear this on a regular basis, uh, the campus pastors do, [00:19:00] we talked about it when you were, when you were there, is, uh, and I heard it again Easter.
They, this family was visiting their family who happened to go to our church, said, "Thank you for opening your Bible." Yeah. That, that surprises me. I don't, I don't think you can call it preaching if your Bible's closed No. That's,
Mike Glenn: that's ...
Matt Pearson: What are you talking about? Yeah. Uh, it makes no sense to me. Me either.
Um, so that surprises me. Um, I'm, um, yeah, you know, I just con- I continue to be amazed at the fact that this word that's so old- Mm-hmm ... is living and breathing, and you can see it in people's faces. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and they want it. I'm, I'm pleasantly surprised that, uh, preaching still matters. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, every few years we'll have this campaign or trend that comes out and says, "Preaching is, is gone."
Mm-hmm. You know, we're gonna replace it with AI. Mm-hmm. We're gonna replace it with videos. Mm-hmm. We're gonna replace it ... And what we found out from videos is we hate videos.
Matt Pearson: [00:20:00] Right. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matt Pearson: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think God has ordained for preaching to- Mm-hmm ... to last, of course, so yeah. Yep.
Mike Glenn: All right. So, uh, y- you're meeting a young seminary student.
He's leaving, he's graduating, he's taking his first church. What, what, what does, what does Matt tell him? If you can do anything else- ...
Matt Pearson: do
Mike Glenn: it. Go do it.
Matt Pearson: Um, I would say spend as much time with your people as you do in the Word, at least. Mm-hmm. If not, if not more so. Um, again, I'm not saying don't study the Word.
Um,
Mike Glenn: but so- But, but what most people don't understand, let's underline this point, spending time with your people is preparing to preach. Yes. Yes. That's ... I'm glad you said, put it that way. Okay. That's, I mean- That's exactly what I wanted to say ... 'cause what we wanna do is, "Well, I'd love to be studying for the sermon, but I gotta go, you know, visit- Mm-hmm
this family in the hospital." Mm-hmm. That's studying to preach. That is. That is. Because the questions they're asking- Such a good point. Mm-hmm ... the stories they're telling- Mm-hmm ... [00:21:00] have to be woven into the sermon- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ... somehow-
Matt Pearson: Yeah ... or you're missing- Yeah, missing it. Yeah. Um, and that's, that's the, that's the biggie, uh, Mike, is spend time with your people and let them do most of the talking.
Mm-hmm. Right. Um, let them do 80% of the talking. Yeah. Ask a question, be curious, find out stuff. Like, if you go and vis- if you go and visit, uh, somebody in the hospital, and y- you're in the waiting room, and you see them pacing, that's triggering something in a preacher's brain to say, "There's probably something in the passage I'm preaching that speaks to fear."
Mm-hmm. And they're gonna lean in a little bit. Yeah. One, because you were there. Mm-hmm. But two, because they've been afraid all week. That's right. Um- Anxiety, right ... yes, yes. And that is, to your point, pr- preparing
Mike Glenn: for your sermon. You know, Fosdick used to walk around with a little notebook in his pocket.
Mm-hmm. And from conversations, he would [00:22:00] write down And then that's what he would preach on- Mm ... Sunday. That's smart. Now-
Matt Pearson: I p- I keep a notebook in my pocket. I just forget
Mike Glenn: to pull it out and write anything
Matt Pearson: down. But, but the notebook looks good. Yeah, that's right. That's right. It makes it look like I'm paying attention.
Sometimes I even
Mike Glenn: study and
Matt Pearson: stuff, so. Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, that, that'd be the biggest thing. Yes, yes, study the text, but my goodness, study your people. Your people, not who you want them to be. Right. I mean, that matters, but who they are now. Mm-hmm. Um, not the congregation you wished you had. Right. The congregation you have.
Mm-hmm. And, and, and help that congregation get in the Word and let the Spirit do its thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Talk about the stress of, of Sunday after Sunday. I mean, my running joke is there's, y- a pastor has three days in their week. Right. Day before they preach, the day they preach, the day after they preach.
Mm-hmm. And, uh- Yeah,
Matt Pearson: Sunday comes every three days. And, and that's right. I used to say that. Um, it, it's, it's real. Um, [00:23:00] it, every week's different. Mm-hmm. You know, you try to get in a rhythm. Right. But in pastoral ministry- Yeah ... uh, whether it's meetings or a funeral or hospital visitation or something happens at home- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
that's, um, uh, it's, it's the, the stress of week after week preaching. I mean, the, the longer you do it, the more you know it's gonna be okay. Right. Doesn't take the stress away- Mm ... 'cause Sunday's always coming. But you know in the back of your soul, in the back of your brain, "Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna find some, find some time to do that."
Um, I would, I would recommend, and you, you taught me this, especially that preaching, um, uh, putting a preaching schedule a year in advance- Right ... is I try to make it my rhythm before I go to bed on Sunday night, I'm going ahead and I've at least a couple of times read the passage for the next week. Read the passage for
Mike Glenn: next Sunday.
Matt Pearson: Because so much of your sermon prep happens right here- Mm-hmm ... when you're driving down the road. Mm-hmm. When you're [00:24:00] walking. Yeah. Uh, when you're visiting church members, stuff like that. The only thing you wanna do is move it from the back burner to the front burner. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's all you wanna do.
Yeah, yeah. That's exactly right. And so, uh, even if you've had a full week with very little time in the study- Mm-hmm ... if you're constantly thinking about that passage, when you do sit down to write down your thoughts or type out your sermon, however you do it, it's been marinating for a while. Right, yeah.
Um, and that's, and that's a big deal. But yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's ... The calendar says every seven days. Yeah. But it's – You and I know better, right? It's every, every three days. Yeah. Right.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Matt Pearson: Uh, you
Mike Glenn: know, the, the surprising thing for me was, uh- The, the reality that every- everybody in the building is bringing their own story- Mm
their own trouble, their own anxieties- Mm ... their own joys, and, and they really don't care what kind of week you've had. They don't. Damn.
Matt Pearson: You're
Mike Glenn: exactly right. You know. They don't,
Matt Pearson: they
Mike Glenn: don't
Matt Pearson: mean to be
Mike Glenn: ugly about it- No, no ... but they don't. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Yeah. I'm here. Yeah. And, and I need to hear something- Yeah
from the Lord, and you're- Yeah ... [00:25:00] supposed to bring it You're, you're the guy. I don't care if you did nine funerals this week. Mm-hmm. It doesn't, it does, it doesn't matter. Right. Give me a word. That's right. Mm-hmm. 11:00- Mm-hmm ... you better have something to say.
Matt Pearson: Yep. Um, and that's our job. Yeah. That's our job, but it, uh, um, it's
The reality of week by week preaching is you don't know until you, till you get into it. No. But it's ... Yeah.
Mike Glenn: No. No. And, and I kinda tell everybody, you gotta ... If, if somebody says, "I n- I, I need to preach my sermon." I say, "No, you gotta preach three or four." Right. Everybody's got one. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But, but let, you know, let's get in this thing where you- Mm-hmm
you're preaching three or four in a row. Mm-hmm. Then, then, then, then that'll tell me if you got- Right ... the goods. Right. Uh- Right ... to, to, to be able to do this. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Matt Pearson: Um, why do you do it? When I was ... My first church I pastored was Amite, Louisiana. A small little country church called Friendship Baptist Church.
I'd been ... I was, I was getting my masters in expository preaching at New Orleans. I think I'd been in New Orleans about a year. [00:26:00] My wife and I moved to Amite, Louisiana. Um, the parsonage is right in front of the church building. A trailer right in front of the church building. The church's parking lot was on my front yard.
And about two weeks in, uh, Katie was not happy at the time. She got there, but she had gotten some good friends at New Orleans and Seminary and was not happy that we moved. About two weeks in, on a Sunday afternoon about 2:00, I think I was asleep taking a nap. The chairman of the deacons knocks on the trailer door.
He looked like John Wayne on steroids. His name was Robert Miller. He knocked on the door, I answered, and he goes, "Get in the truck. You're coming with me." I looked back at my wife and I'm like, "Hopefully I'll be back." Yeah. He drives me to, um, a minister ordination service at a nearby church where all the ordained Baptists- Yeah
in that association were there. [00:27:00] And I'm sitting at the back. He wanted me to meet a lot of people. Mm-hmm. That sort of thing. I'm sitting at the very back and they're peppering this poor candidate with stupid que- Yeah ... I mean, they really were. They were not ... I mean, I'm sure there were some good questions, but there was a couple of times, Mike, and I don't remember the exact questions, but a couple of times where it was obvious that the answer he gave and their affirmation of his answer was not biblical.
And I just remember sitting there thinking, "These are the leaders of these churches." And they don't know the God of the Bible. And I can't explain it, but in that moment, it was, it was as if this, Jesus was sitting right next to me in that country church, and he said, "I'm calling you to help people who think they know the God of the Bible, to help them understand who the true God of the Bible
Mike Glenn: is."
Mm.
Matt Pearson: And that's never [00:28:00] left. Mm-hmm. That passion to do that has never left. Um, I used to be timid to say that, because, you know, a good Southern Baptist boy, I wanna preach to the lost- Right ... the lost out there, which I, I'm all for. Mm-hmm. But I believe God's giving me a passion to help the people who at least think they're saved.
Mm-hmm. That grew up with a, going to Sunday school- Right ... discipleship training. Right. Think they know the God of the Bible, but have never truly encountered the God of the
Mike Glenn: Bible. Well, you know, the old traveling evangelist of the last generation would always tell you that the ripest harvest field is any local congregation.
Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, that-
Matt Pearson: And it's true.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. It's really true. Um, so- 950,000 people live in Davidson and Williamson County. Now, that's growing, as you know. From what they tell us, 750,000 of them are unchurched. Wow. Now, that, that's the ones that tell us. Yeah. That, that's not the ones who say, "Yeah, I'm a member of a church," [00:29:00] but don't ever go.
Mm-hmm. So.
Matt Pearson: Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Uh, and, and a lot of those folks grew up in church, and, uh- Hmm ... you know, made the mistake of thinking, "I'm, I'm in a garage, so I'm a car." Mm-hmm. You know, went to church but never met Jesus. Right. So- Or they've been hurt by the church. Yeah, that's right. Uh. We talk about calling and context.
Hmm. Now, my calling is the same, to share the gospel- Mm-hmm ... that it was when I was a pastor of a church. The context is now different. Hmm. Now, Matt, with your, with your training and your experience and all that, you could do a lot of things. Why do you choose the local church- Hmm ... as your context?
Matt Pearson: I, I mean, this is gonna sound duh and trite, but it's, it, it, it literally is Jesus' choice of hope for the world.
Is, yeah. I mean, um, I'm not, I'm not preaching to general ... I mean, somebody can get online and watch one of my sermons- Mm-hmm ... that can be over in Yugoslavia- Right ... and do something like that. But I'm [00:30:00] preaching to real people- Mm-hmm ... with real names, with real stories, that I believe the Holy Spirit's forming.
Mm-hmm. And I believe the Holy Spirit's animating among us. And by, um, you know, Jesus said, "This is how all men are gonna know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." That, that can't happen in general. Right. Um, and so the local church is God's means of, of the gospel growing. Mm-hmm. God's means of ushering in His kingdom here on Earth.
Mm-hmm. And, uh, so that's, that's why. I, I, I can't get away from that. Yeah. What's your favorite preaching story? Uh, it's the first church I was pastoring, Sunday morning service then the Sunday night service. That was, that was different. And I remembered it was when I was going to New Orleans. I think I was driving to New Orleans four days a week for seminary.
Mm-hmm. And why, why I thought preaching through the life of Elisha on Sunday night was a good idea- ... I'll never know. But, but I did. You got [00:31:00] fired
Mike Glenn: up in Old Testament class. Yeah, that- Yeah, that's exactly right ... yeah.
Matt Pearson: That's where I heard something. And so I was... I don't know, how six weeks, seven w- I don't know.
I just thought, "Let's do the s- study of Elisha on a Sunday night." And I hadn't prepared well. Yeah. It was, it was awful. It was awful. Well, one of the deacons', chairman of the deacon's son, his name is Randy. He walked me outside the church after the service was over, and he goes, "What the hell was that?"
And I said, "I don't know. I don't know." It was bad. It was bad. It was bad. Yeah. So that's one. Another one, pardon my language - We all need friends who will tell us the truth. That's right. Well, he did. Yeah, yeah. He did. I remember one time when I was in Wynne, Arkansas preaching, and I was landing the plane- Mm
and calling for a response. I'm sure yelling, begging people, and it was, it was... I was just about to pray. And it was quiet, and somebody's cellphone rings, and it was [00:32:00] Push It by Salt-N-Pepa. I mean, it was loud. It was like, "Ah, just push it." Just this loud. Lost. Yeah. Lost everybody. Yeah, just, yeah ... lost everything.
Just, just shut her down and let, and let's go, so. That's it. Stories like that a lot, of, uh, dads getting up in the middle of the, of the pew and beating their child on the back- ... as they're walking out of the... You know, stuff like that, yeah. What about you? Do you have a favorite preacher story? Oh, gosh.
Mike Glenn: You know, I had a, I had a pa- uh, daddy grab a kid one time.
The kid yelled, "Pray for me," as he were running out. Pray, pray for me. Did you stop and say- Let's pray for junior ... yeah. There was one time I was, I made a de- I just made a key point at Brentwood, and it thundered, and the, and the church was right in the middle of the thunder. Oh, wow. I mean, every- everything in there rattled.
Wow. Stuff, stuff fell off of chairs and stuff then, so. Nice. And you're like, "I told you." I said, "Somebody needs to pay attention here," and stuff. Ah, we could talk all day about preaching. Yes. Yes, yes. But, uh, and, and we'll have to have Matt back, [00:33:00] continue this story. I hope, uh, you, you heard a couple of things.
One, yes, exegete the, the text. People need to hear the truth of the gospel. The, the story about how many people are surprised now that a pastor would open the Bible, uh, that's where our world is. So, so yes, take the scripture very seriously. Exegete your congregation. Uh, pay attention to their stories and how God is working in them, and try to bring what you're doing and what God is doing in their lives together in that sermon moment.
Uh, but most of all, trust that Jesus knows what He's doing. And, uh, show up, work hard, but, uh, trust Jesus with the best. This has been the Engage Church Network Podcast. I wanna thank Matt Pearson for being here, and I'm Mike Glenn, and we'll see you next time.
Thanks for tuning in to the Engage Church Network Podcast. We exist to train healthy and skilled leaders for congregations throughout Middle Tennessee. If today's episode helped [00:34:00] you, share it with a fellow leader, and don't forget to visit engagechurchnetwork.com for more ways to grow.
