Wisdom Through Experience with Jim Wideman
In this episode of the Engage Church Network Podcast, Pastor Mike Glenn sits down with ministry veteran Jim Wideman to talk about the heart of mentorship, generational leadership, and what it really means to pour into others. From his early years in children’s ministry to decades of coaching pastors and church teams, Jim shares wisdom on raising up the next generation of leaders - reminding us that “every Paul needs a Timothy, and every Timothy needs a Paul.”
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Mike Glenn: Uh, what's the old joke the preachers told in Alabama about the shoeshine boy? The guy stepped up, put his shoes up on the, on the box with the shoe, and he said, "I want my shoes to look like, just like that guy's." And he says, "Sir, you're going to have to bring me better leather if ..." Yeah. "I can shine it, I can polish it, but I can't change the essence of the shoe-" Yeah
that you're bringing to me."
You know, you're, you're one of these great podcast guest in that we can talk about- Yeah, we can talk about anything you wanna talk about ... anything you wanna talk about. Talk about staff dysfunction or- ... [00:01:00] why- Leadership or, or What do you do
Jim Wideman: with, what do you do with old associates? Yeah, how to just,
Mike Glenn: uh... Now let- let's, let's, let's pick up on that, and I hadn't expected to talk to you, but your conversation about, about your relationship with our friend Darren.
Yeah. Uh, Darren Tyler, who's pastor of Conduit Church, who, who's a friend of this ministry, uh, been on this podcast, uh, have, have great, great, um, love, admiration for Darren and, and his... You know, we, we, we joke with Darren in that we don't ever know where he is till we see the news. Yeah. And then where something's blowing up, we figure he is either there or waiting to get State Department to- Yeah
permission to, to fly in. Yeah. You just read New
Jim Wideman: York Times- ... and kind of figure out where he is. Kind of say, "
Mike Glenn: Okay, he's probably in this country." Now, you have known Darren since he was a teenager. Yeah, 18, going to Bible College. One of, one of the emphasis that, uh, uh, the Engagers Network [00:02:00] has is every Paul has a Timothy.
Yeah. And every Timothy has to have a Paul. Right. So, you know- We know, and, and, and, and, and understand how I'm saying this. I'm not saying this to flatter you. I'm saying this because this is the reality of kingdom life. Right. There is no Darren- Right ... without you or someone like you- Yeah ... pouring into his life.
Jim Wideman: Well, I know in my life, you know, I've, I have been serving pastors since I was in my 20s. Mm-hmm. And every man of God put something in me that needed to be deposited. Yeah. I'm, I'm the greatest hits- ... of every guy that I've gotten to serve- Yeah ... every person, and every church assignment- Mm-hmm ... has been a God assignment.
And it's, it's, you know, I, I am, uh, you know, there's good parts, there's bad parts. You just don't, you don't learn the bad parts. But
Mike Glenn: all
Jim Wideman: of that's part [00:03:00] of the education. Oh, yeah, yeah. And that's the thing that I see today that bothers me- Mm-hmm ... about how we train ministers and things, is people don't understand the importance of being mentored- Right
and, and being, uh, taught and learning and what each person brings. And, uh, you know, there is, um, you know, there's no- Longevity or fruit without duplicating yourself- Right ... on somebody
Mike Glenn: else. Right, right. That- Who was your first mentor?
Jim Wideman: Well, uh, it was my very first pastor that I- Mm-hmm ... served in Jackson, Mississippi.
Uh, I almost went to Sanford. Mm-hmm. I signed a letter of intent back when they quit football in '70. Oh, gosh. Yeah. And there were 22 of us from Alabama that ended up at Mississippi College- ... Mississippi's Baptist school. And, uh, so all these old [00:04:00] Alabama folks ended up there- Yeah ... in Mississippi, and, uh, so I, uh, graduated from MC and, uh, I started dating this little Assembly of God girl that I ended up marrying.
And so, um, like I said a minute ago, I have this horrible habit of ending up on staff at churches I attend. And, uh, I was attending church there at Southside Assembly of God, and, uh, my first pastor, Jabby Wilson, uh, was the best first pastor that I could have ever served- Mm ... because, um, although I was the Christian ed guy, which we all know- Mm-hmm
means anything the pastor doesn't wanna fool with- Uh, one of the first- And other duties as assigned by the super And other duties as assigned. But, uh, one of the great things is, uh, he put me over 18 shut-ins, and I ended up burying every one of them and learning how to do [00:05:00] funerals- Yeah ... and being, you know, working with kids.
I did a lot of baptisms on, uh- Mm-hmm ... a lot of weddings, and he just let you learn by doing. He took me with him everywhere he went. Yeah. I think that's one thing that in our hierarchy- Exactly ... running our churches- You know, we're try- we're trying to get back to that ... like
Mike Glenn: CEOs- Right,
Jim Wideman: mm-hmm ... uh, we don't understand putting into folks, and that's really what I'm doing- Mm-hmm
at Conduit right now, is the XP of ministries. I'm just putting in the younger folks and just showing them, uh, how do you make a hospital call? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How do you do these things? Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, uh- Well, I, I tell people, I said, "I learned to be a pastor from old guys- Yeah, yeah ... who d- who for whatever reason loved me- Yeah
and would sit me down over a cup of coffee and go, 'Here's how you do this.- Yeah ... Here's how you handle this. Yeah. I heard you got a problem, now let's walk through this.'" So good. And, uh, and h- and here's how. Now I am the old guy . Yeah. Well, we're running out of old guys because,
Jim Wideman: you know, we went [00:06:00] through this stage where once you got in your 50s- Yeah
nobody wanted to hire you. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I ran a headhunting, uh, service for the Orange folks for a while, and it was funny when they'd talk to a 60-year-old headhunter and say, "I won't hire anybody over 35."
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Jim Wideman: And, uh- Yeah ... you know, that was kinda funny. Well, you just hired me- ... to help you find somebody, and, uh, but, you know, that's the thing, is, uh, I, I think we're out of the skinny jeans phase- Mm-hmm
thank the Lord- Mm-hmm ... and realize that old guys still have something to teach. Right. And, uh, I think the important thing though, Mike, is y- you have to realize for the first time ever in church, there's five generations that are working together.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Jim Wideman: And, uh, you got old folks, and you got all the gens
Mike Glenn: and- Mm-hmm
Jim Wideman: all the different folks working. And, um, one [00:07:00] book that I really, uh, have enjoyed is called A New Kind of Diversity, and it talks about understanding- The
Mike Glenn: generational diversity ... the
Jim Wideman: generational diversity because for the first time on staffs, uh, you know, I like an office where I can shut the door.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Jim Wideman: These 25-year-olds, they all wanna sit at a community table. That's right, yeah. And they get stuff done- Yeah. ... at the community table. Uh, I've got- Walk around with ear- ear- Yeah, yeah ... ear pods in, yeah. And they're all just sitting there talking to one another, and it drive me nuts. Yeah. But I've learned to give them the freedom for, to lead- Mm-hmm
at their level, and, you know, that's what's been fun- Right ... is, uh, just realizing that I can learn from them. They can learn from me. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I wake up every day wanting to learn something. Oh yeah, that's me. And, uh, you know, uh, I've learned so much, you know, about AI- Mm-hmm ... and all the different things that, um, [00:08:00] you know, f- from youth pastors- Mm-hmm
that, uh, and, and things. But it's important that we keep learning, we keep growing, we keep putting in to this next generation, and, um, you know, everybody needs a mentor.
Mike Glenn: Yes. So, um, what do you look for as a Paul f- to determine who the Timothy is that you'll invest in?
Jim Wideman: You know, I look for questions. If you're not asking questions, um, uh, it's the folks that stay behind, ask the question.
These young folks, uh, they won't ask questions in front of other people.
Mike Glenn: That's right.
Jim Wideman: But they will wait and get by their self. They'll DM you. Uh-huh. Uh, if I see hunger, uh, if I see a want to learn- Oh,
Mike Glenn: good word. Good word ... uh,
Jim Wideman: you know, I'm looking for questions. Um, I d- I have a, [00:09:00] a Little Mighty Networks, uh, online community that, um, I was able to put all my books, all my articles- Mm-hmm
all, everything I've done. It's kind of a legacy thing, and I priced it at- Just dirt cheap Mm-hmm And if somebody won't join that and spend what I'm charging, which is chicken feed- Mm-hmm ... for your life's work- Mm-hmm ... um, I realize they're not, they're not- Not, not serious ... they're not serious. And so, uh, those folks, they have my cell phone.
I reach out to them, I do a monthly coaching call. Mm-hmm. Uh, I do a members only, uh, podcast for them, and so NextGen, uh, Leader Lab is, uh, where I'm putting in the younger folks. And so, um, you know, I just look for people that show, um, a [00:10:00] want to, to
Mike Glenn: learn. Mm-hmm. Now, y- you haven't said anything in that about talent.
You haven't said anything in- No ... there about ability- No ... or gifting.
Jim Wideman: No. If, uh, another thing that draws me is loyalty. Um, you can't teach loyalty. Yeah, character. And that- Yeah ... character and, and, uh, so if, um, you know, when I speak at conferences, there's always those young kids that go to your first workshop, and if you teach eight, they'll be at all eight.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. And
Jim Wideman: those are the kids I start noticing.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Jim Wideman: And I reach out to, and uh, a lot of times when I was doing group coaching and things, I'd say, "Hey, I wanna give you six months of coaching." Because if they cared enough to go to everything I taught- Mm-hmm ... at a conference, there's something in that person-
Mike Glenn: That has connected
uh,
Jim Wideman: that [00:11:00] I- Mm-hmm ... you know, I want to- With who they are and who you are. Yeah. So that's very important to me. Uh, you know, you can teach skill, you can teach a lot of different-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ...
Jim Wideman: how to do things, but they've gotta have that character, they've gotta have that want to-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Jim Wideman: uh, and that openness to learn.
Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. What's the, uh, what's the old joke the preachers told in Alabama about the shoe shine boy? The guy stepped up, put his shoes up on the, on the box for the shoe, and he said, "I want my shoes to look like, just like that guy's." And he says, "Sir, you're going to bring me better leather if ..." Yeah. "I can shine it, I can polish it, but I can't change the essence- Yeah
of the shoe that you're bringing to me."
Jim Wideman: And that, and that's it. You know, we l- I look for, uh, just folks that wanna learn. Mm-hmm.
Mike Glenn: And,
Jim Wideman: um, you know, there's, [00:12:00] there's, there's so many voices- And options people have to learn. Mm-hmm. And it's sad when th- they don't take advantage of any of them.
Mike Glenn: Yeah, yeah. And that's one of the reasons we've started school here- Yeah
at, uh, at the Engagers Network because one, i- is the, i- is the, the quality of the faculty, the people- Sure ... like you who were, who were here in Middle Tennessee- Yeah ... that we can ask- Yeah ... who are eager to be part of this. Uh-
Jim Wideman: Well, you know, if we trained our doctors the way we train our preachers, I would never go to the doctor.
Uh, and, uh, again- Yeah ... uh, I don't wanna take a pioneering class from someone who's never pioneered a church. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right. Uh, you know, uh, uh, someone who's never led a staff. Or, or someone, someone who wants
Mike Glenn: to talk about preaching, but they've never had to do- Yeah ... a sermon in the, in the th- daily throes- Right
of, of a, of a church.
Jim Wideman: Well, I [00:13:00] know in my, uh, undergraduate degree, well, as well as my postgraduate de- degrees, it's crazy. Uh, I never baptized anybody. I never did a funeral. Mm-hmm. I never did a wedding. Uh, it wasn't till I worked in my first church- Mm-hmm ... and I had a great, that great first pastor- Mm-hmm
that said, "Let me teach you how to do this." That's right. "Let me, let me show you when you go to the hospital, knock on the door- Yeah ... 'cause you don't know what's on the other side- Yeah, you
Mike Glenn: don't know- ... of that door ... the treatment, yeah.
Jim Wideman: And all those things. And so, you know, thank the Lord I had hands-on- Agreed
experience. I agree,
Mike Glenn: yeah.
Jim Wideman: And, um, I remember the second church I worked at, there was, um, uh, an older minister there that he knew the pastor- Mm-hmm ... I'd worked for. And he said, "Thank God the Lord sent me some help 'cause I know you know how to do stuff." Uh, and he said, "These, these other folks [00:14:00] that are on the staff- Yeah
I'm showing them what to do- Yeah ... and you can help me do it." Well, you know, who,
Mike Glenn: who taught you that when you baptize in a river- Yeah ... you baptize into the current?
Jim Wideman: Yeah. '
Mike Glenn: Cause if you lay them with the current, they'll slip out of your hands and you'll lose the moment.
Jim Wideman: Yeah, or you make sure there's a butter knife-
in the hem of, of the little girl's dress and-
Mike Glenn: So it doesn't float up on you. That's- Yeah, yeah. There, there are some things that you just learn- Yeah ... from, from the experts.
Jim Wideman: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And that kind of stuff. What is key, what is key for a, a Paul to, to make sure a Timothy knows?
Jim Wideman: Well, I think the main thing that they need to know, you don't have to do everything just like that Paul-
Mike Glenn: Yeah
Jim Wideman: but you need to reflect their heart.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Jim Wideman: Jesus said, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father."
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Jim Wideman: And I know serving pastors, uh- I, I, [00:15:00] you know, Darren and I have different preaching skills. Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, you know, I look at, you know, how Darren teaches and, and I tried, you know- ... after 50 years, I, I, I, first time I, I tried- Gonna throw a new pitch, huh?
this fall out, and I looked at him and I said, "Bud, this is Saul's armor. I can't- ... I c- I can't do this." And- Now, now, now explain that. I know
Mike Glenn: what you're talking about- Yeah ... with Saul's armor.
Jim Wideman: Yeah, it was just, it wasn't me.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. It- You know, it's a story of David before he fights Goliath. Yes, yes. He's talking to King Saul.
King Saul says, "Wear my armor- Right ... which wasn't made for David, didn't fit David-
Jim Wideman: No ...
Mike Glenn: and took away the- Totally different
Jim Wideman: weapons, totally, all- Took away- ... all the skill level ... everything
Mike Glenn: David could bring to that battle. Yeah. And the, and the, the- And,
Jim Wideman: and so to me, uh, now every time I speak, I do, I dance with the girl that brought me to the
Mike Glenn: dance.
And
Jim Wideman: [00:16:00] I do the things that, uh, you know, talking about parenting- Yeah ... and talking about the family, and talking about, uh, all the things that, uh, you know, has been the world that God called me- Yeah ... to
Mike Glenn: work on and have. The truths that you have, have been, that you've learned forged through your- Right
personality and life experience. Right.
Jim Wideman: And so I think the main thing they need to know, you need to reflect the heart, but you don't necessarily- Mm-hmm ... have to copy the style or even use- No ... the same weapons.
Mike Glenn: No, no.
Jim Wideman: And I think that, that, um, understanding how God made us all differently-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Jim Wideman: and, um, but at the same time, uh, learning what, what we can from that individual.
And, you know, my, I've never learned everything from one person. No, no. Uh-huh. You just [00:17:00] learn what the Lord put them in your life-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Jim Wideman: to learn from, and then- Go from there Mm-hmm And, you know, where we've had tremendous church growth, uh, in the last two years, uh, at Conduit. And,
Mike Glenn: you know- Somebody was telling me, was it Darren telling me, that you guys turned away 200 cars at last week- Well-
or the week before?
Jim Wideman: Yeah, so that- it's been the craziest thing- ... of, um ... It's funny how a donut hole can move people from one service to another- ... that asking them to change has not. And, uh- Yeah. But, but we'll feed you if you show up, dude ... you know, when we were, when we were launching The Five- Yeah ... it was blow up games and hamburgers- Yeah
and hot dogs. And, and, uh, now we had to turn away all these cars a few weeks ago from the 9:45, and it was opening up a special program for our [00:18:00] older elementary kids- Yeah ... that wasn't at the other- Yeah ... that moved the needle to get them to the 11:45. There
Mike Glenn: you go. Yeah. And
Jim Wideman: so, uh, you know, as a consultant, I've always told people in multiple services, you do everything the same.
Right. And, uh, I'm having to eat those words- ... now because, uh, you know, we're having to do what you ... I've never in all my life of crazy growth had a, a mega church with a small auditorium. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Jim Wideman: And so it's a whole new set of-
Mike Glenn: Right ... problems. Well, you're back to that, uh, to the book you mentioned earlier about the, all the, a different kind of diversity.
Jim Wideman: Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And you're having, you know, if you, if you had a Korean service- Right ... then you would have Korean preachers- Yeah ... and it, but you've got different diversity now. Yeah. And so you have to do the services in response to that- Yeah ...
Jim Wideman: diversity. And our 5:00 service has kinda been the Californian service.
Yeah. Uh, [00:19:00] because Sunday morning, they're not Southern at all. No, uh-uh. So Sunday morning means nothing- No, that's right ...
Mike Glenn: to these folks. I'm, I'm gonna get up and go have breakfast and- Yeah ... and read the paper. And
Jim Wideman: so they're brunching and- Yeah ... carrying on and doing everything- Mm-hmm ... and then wanna have Jesus before they go to bed.
And, uh, so, you know, we're, we're, uh, um, you know, my friend Alan Jackson once said, "If folks will come to church Tuesday afternoon at 3:30, I'll do a Tuesday afternoon service-" Y- y- exactly right "... at 3:30." Exactly
Mike Glenn: right. Well, you know, for a long time at Brentwood, uh, when I was there, we had a Cairo service.
Yeah,
Jim Wideman: yeah, I remember. Tuesday night. Yeah.
Mike Glenn: And, uh, and it, it was booming and going. We couldn't figure out why it worked.
Jim Wideman: Yeah. With these- Well, you know, it's one of those things, uh, I was on staff at The Belonging, and, uh, how it started was, uh, as a Bible study- Mm-hmm ... on Tuesday nights for musicians-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm
Jim Wideman: because they couldn't come on Sunday- Yeah, 'cause they're on the road ... because the first, they're on the road- Mm-hmm ... and they're coming off the bus, and the [00:20:00] first thing churches were doing was canceling Sunday night services. Yeah. And so, you know, uh, they're not gonna come midweek, 'cause they load the bus on a Wednesday night.
Yeah, load the bus and w- yeah. So it was just a bunch of musicians that started as a Bible study that ended up being a church- Yeah ... and they still have Tuesday nights. Yeah. Uh, those original musicians- Are now all married and got kids- ... and running studios instead of playing on, in bands Instead of getting on the bus, huh?
Uh, rather than getting on the bus. Mm-hmm. But that Tuesday night service- Mm ... is still, uh, uh, a big thing- Valid. Very valid. Yeah ... valid in what they do and so that's, that's the thing is, um, you know, for years, and you've seen this being pastor of mega church, folks would come and just do thus sayeth- Yeah
the seminar speaker rather- Mm-hmm ... than get on their face before God and say, "Lord, what do you want us to
Mike Glenn: do?" Exactly.
Jim Wideman: And that's been [00:21:00] what's- Mm ... been great about Darren and Conduit is we've just said, "Okay, Lord, this is a unique situation. Show us- Mm-hmm ... what to do," and we try it.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Jim Wideman: And if it doesn't work, you know, we're only married to our spouses.
We're not married to- Me ... any of this other stuff, and we'll change that. But it's been fun- Mm-hmm ... to, uh, just look at that formula and look- Yeah ... and then, uh, we've got a great team. And everything's great, yeah. The other thing is, is just the culture-
Mike Glenn: Yeah. We're really big fans- ... of the staff ... of Conduit here, yeah.
Yeah.
Jim Wideman: It's, it's, it's the healthiest staff culture that I've ever seen. Yeah, I know
Mike Glenn: some of the staff, so let's- Yeah ... not, let's not push it. Well, I'm not saying it's,
Jim Wideman: that we're good looking. I'm just saying it's just healthy. And, uh, it's a, there's a real, uh, push to rest.
Mike Glenn: Yeah.
Jim Wideman: Um, you know, uh, it's the first place I've ever worked where I have to go to the folks that work for me and [00:22:00] say, "Don't come in tomorrow."
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. You need to take some
Mike Glenn: time
Jim Wideman: off. Mm-hmm. And Darren's such a blessing. He'll- I- if you- He'll say, "Do I need to Venmo them some money so they can go do stuff with their family?"
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Your career, uh, of, and your ministry, uh, has, has been from, from A to Z, north, south, east, west. Yeah.
You, you know, you've, you, the children's ministry, the, one of the first ones to do puppets, uh, one of the first ones to have a video curriculum. And, uh, you, you know, we, w- we talk about that to everybody online and on- Yeah ... YouTube and that kind of stuff. Brother, you were cutting edge. Well, there's
Jim Wideman: a difference, there's a difference between creativity and innovation.
Yeah. You know, creativity takes something that already exists- Mm-hmm ... and make it better. Mm-hmm. When children's ministry, you know, Sunday school was king-
Mike Glenn: Right ... [00:23:00]
Jim Wideman: in our- Right, I know, mm-hmm ... growing up. I mean, uh, in s- in the Baptist Church, I don't know anybody that, um, you know, you don't hear this today, but folks would come out and say, "Are you gonna stay for church after- Y- ex-
Sunday school?" Exactly
Mike Glenn: right, yeah.
Jim Wideman: And, uh, you know- Yeah, you g- it, it
Mike Glenn: really counted if you went to- Yeah ... Sunday school. It only
Jim Wideman: counted if you went to Sunday school. And now it's flipped.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Jim Wideman: Whatever you do in that hour- Right ... you know, it's funny, uh, if we have small group Sunday school or extended session anything, we call it Sunday school- Right
but just whatever you do- Mm-hmm ... at 9:45. But, uh, you know, now it's all about worship- Mm-hmm ... and all about that worship service. And, uh, you know, it's one of those things that in the '70s, uh, when the modern children's ministry movement happened- Mm-hmm ... you know, AWANA and clubs- Right, right ... was in the '40s.
Uh, Christian camps [00:24:00] really burst out in the '60s. Uh, VBS has been around- Mm-hmm ... since the '40s and '50s. And but, uh, children's church and children's worship really was a new thing in the mid-'70s. Right. And the idea of having a children's pastor-
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm ...
Jim Wideman: uh, if you weren't at a church of at least 1,500 to 2,000- Right
nobody had a children's pastor. No. And really, the Southern Baptists were kinda last to get ... They were l- Oh, yeah, that
Mike Glenn: was a,
Jim Wideman: uh- That was, that was an oddity in the seminaries- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... and stuff, to have a children's pastor. And it was the Assemblies of God- Right ... the Church of God, uh, you know, the Pentecostal denominations that, uh, took that children's evangelist and said, "What we have at camp, we wanna have- W- every, every Sunday
on Sundays every
Mike Glenn: week." Mm-hmm.
Jim Wideman: And, uh, so, uh, guys like Big John, [00:25:00] uh, McPherson, uh, Captain Hook- ... uh, Willie George, and Gospel Bill- Yeah ... uh, they were the first. Yeah. And, uh, really started, uh, you know, the folks ... I worked at Church on the Move under Pastor Willie for 17 years, and, uh, it was, it was so fun to, um, just be somewhere that, uh, Pastor Willie would tell me, "Why haven't you quit selling me?
I'm already sold." He wanted, uh ... He asked me one time, he said, "Why, uh- "Do you know why I hired you?" And I said, "'Cause I'm incredibly good-looking?" That's it, yeah. He says, "No, no, that had nothing to do with it." Uh, he said, "You build good children's ministries in places that didn't want one. And I figured if you did that- Mm-hmm
what would you do in a place that wanted one?" Wow. And those were the most fun 17 years of my [00:26:00] life- Mm-hmm ... just- Mm-hmm ... uh, getting to train children's workers in conferences and seminars, and, um, just, um, as well as just training workers and spreading children's ministry. Yeah. And- What, what have been the common themes?
Well, you know, in my life it's all been helping a pastor. Uh, you know, to me, uh, I asked the Lord, you know, if you've been faithful in small things, uh, He'll make you a ruler over much, but I knew I wasn't called to be a senior pastor. Mm-hmm. So I said, "Lord, what is my own thing?" And He said, "Helping lots of senior pastors."
There you go. And so that's been the thing, th- whether it be through consulting or coaching or, um, mentoring or doing conferences- Mm-hmm ... and things. Uh, you know, once you work at a church over 10,000, nobody wants you to preach. [00:27:00] They just want you to come be a secret shopper and tell them- That's it,
Mike Glenn: yeah.
what to do to
Jim Wideman: break the 2,000 barrier- Yeah ... and all those things. And so that's been, you know, that's been, uh, just the doors the Lord has opened for me. Mm-hmm. But, uh, you know, uh, in ni- 1978 I was an old youth pastor. You know, I got saved in the Jesus movement. Right. If you ever took drugs in the '70s, they just put you in the youth group.
They, you know, they, they j- they just wanted to hear your testimony- A great testimony, yeah, yeah ... and then they, then they wanted, they wanted to know if you ever took drugs, and if you did, they just put you- ... in the youth ministry. And so I was leading worship and helping the youth pastor and, uh, doing these things, and the lady that was over children's ministry quit, and we don't know what happened to her.
I've, we've never seen her again. And my pastor told me, he said, "Grab your Bible, get your guitar, put your hair in a ponytail- Yeah ... and go to children's church. [00:28:00] Don't come out." And, you know, to me, I, I don't really think God calls associates to a particular ministry. Um- I, I don't think you're just called to youth- Right
or children. Mm-hmm. Uh, no matter, I've, I've been a utility guy most of my life- Right ... and I've had everybody's job at every church I've worked at till we hire somebody. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I've had to run those departments, and God doesn't- That w- that was
Mike Glenn: Jim Jenkins on my team.
Jim Wideman: Yeah, yeah. And God doesn't bless me because, uh, I'm a good children's pastor.
Yeah. He blesses me because I'm there to help my pastor. Okay. Whatever my pastor needs help with.
Mike Glenn: All right. Yeah. I love, I love this understanding I'm, I, I'm there to help the pastor. What, what are the helps that most pastors need? Well- Give, give me the top three to five ...
Jim Wideman: you know, uh, the, the [00:29:00] number one thing is whatever else is going on during the service, the senior pastor already has a gig.
Mm-hmm. It's the main service-
Mike Glenn: Yeah, yeah ...
Jim Wideman: or that adult service.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Jim Wideman: So anything that's going on at the same time, whether it be the ministry of helps- Mm-hmm ... ushers, greeters, guest services, uh, if there's small groups going on, if there's youth or children, uh, preschool, nursery, all these, these, uh, parking lot- Mm-hmm
uh, all the different things that are going on at the same time, 'cause that's a reflection of the senior pastor's vision, his heart. Uh, people don't come as individuals, they come as family units. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And being able to reflect that heart in every area- Yeah ... of the church. And, um, you know, [00:30:00] uh, there's some, some churches that are friendlier than others- Mm-hmm
and that's a reflection. And those other ministries and things, and it doesn't matter if, you know, I'm wearing a XP hat and solving problems- Mm-hmm ... on Sundays, but I'm also able to walk through a children's hallway and see more than hallway.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Jim Wideman: And, um, like that other fat bearded guy- ... made me a list and check it twice.
And, uh, we fix it, uh, by the next Sunday.
Mike Glenn: Mm-hmm.
Jim Wideman: And, uh, the folks we catch doing right, we brag and make a big deal over. And I've had a lot of people say, "Do you regret not being a senior pastor?" Not at all- Mm ... because nowhere in the Bible was, um, you know, a second guy or an assistant. They're the only ones with a double anointing.
Mike Glenn: Right.
Jim Wideman: Uh, and so that's been the thing that- Mm ... uh, that mantle and representing your pastor and being [00:31:00] able to help. And, um, you know, I've gone from, uh, XP of family ministries to, um, I was on staff at a church, and we just needed somebody to do operations. Right,
Mike Glenn: yeah.
Jim Wideman: And, you know, the Lord helped me- Do operations because that's what my pastor needed Mm-hmm Not that I was, you know, called to, uh, noses and toilet paper, but that was the area- Right
that they needed me to help. Yeah And, uh, you know, now at Conduit, I love helping w- on the ministry side of things and putting into these young folks, but, uh, whatever my pastor needs help with, then that's the things that I wanna do. Wanna do. You need, you need a staff. Uh, you know, we look ar- you know, the thing about Timothy is they were called to a man.
Right And you look at every key man, they're [00:32:00] called to a particular people group, a place- Right, right ... those things. Right That's the senior pastor's calling. But those associates, um, you know, they're called to a man. And, you know, um, I've, I have burned the ships. Uh, I'm, I'm at Conduit with Darrin as long as, as he n- needs me.
Mm-hmm And, uh, that's one of those things that, um, I, I believe that associates are called to a person, uh, not called to a particular ministry. Right And we see that in the Bible.
Mike Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. We gotta have you back. There's a lot more- Well, I'd love to come There, there's a lot more we gotta talk about.
How, how can people get hold of your stuff?
Jim Wideman: Well, jimwideman.com, uh, or either the nextgenleaderlab.com. Dot com Both of those is, uh, how you get in touch.
Mike Glenn: All right. You heard it here. Uh, that's Jim Wideman. Thanks for being with us. This has been- Hey, it was fun [00:33:00] This is, this has been, um... Now, now we gotta, we gotta pull this podcast to an end and we gotta pray for Alabama football.
Oh. That's, uh- Heart- ... our big, our big burden here right now. I think, um, something's
Jim Wideman: just happened with fasting and
Mike Glenn: praying. That's right. I think we need to fast for
Jim Wideman: Alabama
Mike Glenn: football. No kidding. I'm, I'm Mike Glenn. This is Engaged Church Network podcast. Thanks for being with us.
Thanks for tuning in to the Engaged Church Network podcast. We exist to train healthy and skilled leaders for congregations throughout Middle Tennessee. If today's episode helped you, share it with a fellow leader, and don't forget to visit engagedchurchnetwork.com for more ways to grow.
